LIVE Patriots Daily: Talking Top QB Prospects and Post-Day 1 Options w/ Derrik Klassen

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  • 8 months ago
Taylor Kyles from CLNS Media is joined by Derrik Klassen, an NFL Draft contributor for Bleacher Report, on a Patriots Daily college football show to discuss top quarterback prospects and options after the first day of the draft.

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Transcript
00:00:00 (upbeat music)
00:00:02 - What's going on everyone?
00:00:13 Taylor Cowles here for CNS Media
00:00:15 coming at you with another episode of Pat's Daily
00:00:17 brought to you by our friends at FanDuel,
00:00:19 more from them later.
00:00:21 It is almost draft season.
00:00:23 We're getting closer, we got Senior Bowl next week.
00:00:25 Things are starting to pick up.
00:00:27 The collision where the NFL and the draft
00:00:29 and all these different things tend to meet
00:00:31 is finally starting to separate a little bit.
00:00:34 And everybody wants to know,
00:00:35 there's been so much talk about,
00:00:36 are the Patriots gonna get a quarterback?
00:00:38 What quarterback should the Patriots get?
00:00:40 I don't have a great answer for you yet
00:00:42 because I'm still going through the tape
00:00:43 and trying to figure these guys out.
00:00:45 So I enlisted the help of somebody
00:00:46 who's been watching these guys well before me
00:00:49 and is one of the best in the game
00:00:51 when it comes to breaking down quarterbacks.
00:00:52 That is my buddy, Derrick Klassen, friend of the show,
00:00:55 does the NFL draft for Bleacher Report,
00:00:57 QB charting for Reception Perception,
00:01:01 and member of the 33rd team.
00:01:04 Derrick, how are you doing, brother?
00:01:06 - I'm doing good.
00:01:07 Like I said a little bit before pre-show, tired,
00:01:09 very glad that we're almost to where
00:01:11 we can just focus on draft stuff.
00:01:12 And then I think we'll really kick into high gear.
00:01:15 - So, so close.
00:01:16 So first of all,
00:01:17 just get your overall perspective on this class.
00:01:20 Is it top heavy?
00:01:21 Is there more gems than people realize?
00:01:24 'Cause we're gonna get into a lot of these guys
00:01:26 that people are gonna be hearing about for a while.
00:01:27 So what's your take on it?
00:01:29 - I think it's a good quarterback class.
00:01:32 I also think people are overstating the amount
00:01:35 of like true first round quarterbacks that there are.
00:01:37 I obviously, you know, we're gonna talk about them,
00:01:39 but Drake May, Caleb Williams,
00:01:41 don't have to think about it.
00:01:41 Top five picks, easy money.
00:01:44 And then I think at this point, you know,
00:01:46 Jaden Daniels is probably gonna go top 10.
00:01:48 JJ McCarthy might get into the first round at this point.
00:01:51 Michael Penix might get into the first round.
00:01:53 There's like a off chance Bo Nix gets into the first round.
00:01:56 I don't know how many of those guys
00:01:58 actually deserve first round grades,
00:02:01 or at least like surefire
00:02:02 where you feel really good about it.
00:02:04 Some of them, maybe you could, you know,
00:02:06 rationalize as like a dice roll,
00:02:07 but I think there's only really two guys
00:02:10 where you're like, yeah,
00:02:11 this feels like a really, really good bet
00:02:13 for a franchise quarterback.
00:02:14 So the other guys are more flawed
00:02:15 and you might have to, you know,
00:02:18 live with some flaws,
00:02:20 even though they might be okay prospects.
00:02:22 - So before we get into these guys,
00:02:23 I got a few questions just so people can kind of understand
00:02:26 where you're coming from.
00:02:27 So first of all,
00:02:27 when you're going through quarterback prospects,
00:02:30 what is your prospect?
00:02:32 Wow, that was a tongue twister.
00:02:33 What is your process for looking through these prospects
00:02:37 and how you tend to go about it
00:02:38 when it comes to ranking and grading and evaluating these guys?
00:02:41 - Yeah, so I'll actually start by kind of describing
00:02:44 how I do my quarterback charting.
00:02:45 When I do my quarterback charting for prospects,
00:02:47 what I actually like to do is I'll chart every game
00:02:50 that they've done, obviously from their most recent season.
00:02:52 But before that,
00:02:53 I'll chart four games from their previous season.
00:02:55 If they have one, obviously,
00:02:56 like Anthony Richardson last year,
00:02:58 didn't have anything to go off of.
00:02:59 He only had his most recent season,
00:03:00 but if they have a previous season to go off of,
00:03:03 I'll start with four games there
00:03:04 just to kind of get a baseline for who they are.
00:03:08 And then you can really start to understand like,
00:03:09 okay, where did this guy progress, you know,
00:03:11 in the following year?
00:03:12 Or maybe his stats got worse and you can say, okay,
00:03:15 well, I saw what they were last year
00:03:16 and I saw what the team is this year.
00:03:18 Maybe the offensive line got worse
00:03:19 and that was really more the problem than the quarterback.
00:03:21 So I think to me,
00:03:22 it kind of gets a little bit more of a holistic understanding
00:03:24 of who the player is.
00:03:26 And to that point,
00:03:27 progression and development from a player is a skill.
00:03:32 Like to be able to see that from a player is huge.
00:03:35 Like I've brought this up a million times,
00:03:37 but for me in college,
00:03:39 Lamar Jackson was like the pinnacle of that,
00:03:41 where you saw him as a freshman and you were like,
00:03:43 okay, dude's talented.
00:03:44 He can kind of play quarterback,
00:03:45 but we'll see where this goes.
00:03:48 Sophomore year, obviously,
00:03:49 he's the best player in the country.
00:03:50 And then junior year,
00:03:51 even though he didn't win the Heisman again,
00:03:52 he was just so much more developed as a passer.
00:03:55 And it was like, okay,
00:03:56 if this guy can get this much better in three seasons
00:03:59 as a guy who's like 20 years old,
00:04:01 he's probably gonna be able to figure it out
00:04:03 at the NFL level.
00:04:04 And obviously he has,
00:04:05 he might be the best quarterback in the NFL,
00:04:06 not named Patrick Mahomes right now.
00:04:08 So those are some of the stuff I look at.
00:04:10 And then kind of similar to all of that,
00:04:13 the first game or two I watch of a quarterback,
00:04:16 I'm trying not to judge them as harshly.
00:04:19 I'm more trying to understand,
00:04:21 okay, what is the offense asking of them?
00:04:23 What are some of the conditions they're having to deal with,
00:04:25 whether it's offensive line play
00:04:26 or how the receivers handle themselves,
00:04:28 all that sort of stuff.
00:04:29 So, and then you can start to judge
00:04:31 what they're actually asked to do within an offense.
00:04:33 So that's kind of the baseline I try to get
00:04:36 when I start to go in to evaluate these guys.
00:04:39 - And is that usually like chronologically,
00:04:40 is it like, I wanna see what they do
00:04:42 against the best competition
00:04:43 and maybe not so much against the lesser guys
00:04:45 unless their performance really stands out?
00:04:47 How do you usually go about it?
00:04:48 'Cause I feel like I bounce around,
00:04:49 depending on like the prospect
00:04:51 and sometimes just how I'm feeling on the day.
00:04:53 - Yeah, I mean, with quarterbacks specifically,
00:04:56 because I try to chart every game,
00:04:58 I do go chronological just so you can kind of get that feel
00:05:01 of like, okay, how is he progressing through the season?
00:05:04 And we'll talk about this quarterback in a little bit,
00:05:06 but I think that's gonna be kind of a point
00:05:07 I bring up with Caleb Williams,
00:05:09 just kind of how he progressed
00:05:10 over the course of the season.
00:05:11 Now, I think that stuff is valuable to understand
00:05:14 because like there is value in like just watching
00:05:17 the four best teams that he played against
00:05:19 or something like that.
00:05:20 But if it's kind of sporadic and jumped around,
00:05:22 you might not get as good of a gauge
00:05:26 of how this player has progressed throughout the season.
00:05:28 And again, I think being able to progress
00:05:30 and learn things throughout the season
00:05:32 and between seasons is really important to me.
00:05:35 - Makes a lot of sense.
00:05:36 So when you're looking at the game in terms of traits,
00:05:38 what are the things that are the most important to you
00:05:41 and to kind of differentiate guys
00:05:42 more than maybe some other things?
00:05:45 - Number one for me is a lot of the time is pocket field.
00:05:48 Like you have to be able to manage NFL pockets.
00:05:51 This was actually a big reason last year
00:05:53 why I was really, really high on Anthony Richardson.
00:05:57 Despite some of the inconsistencies elsewhere,
00:06:00 some of the misfires, his processing could be,
00:06:03 it wasn't bad, but it was,
00:06:04 you wanted it to speed up a little bit.
00:06:06 But the way he managed the pocket was like,
00:06:08 dude, this guy is afraid of nothing.
00:06:09 He knows how to move.
00:06:10 He keeps his base under him.
00:06:11 Like that's an NFL quarterback.
00:06:14 And that to me is something that's gonna translate
00:06:16 more often than not.
00:06:17 And so that's a really big one to me.
00:06:19 I would say, I don't think every prospect I need to see
00:06:24 has to be like come into the league
00:06:26 as like a Drew Brees level processor,
00:06:28 but I think you wanna see a consistent process.
00:06:31 It might not be a perfect process,
00:06:33 but like you can come out of watching five games
00:06:35 of a quarterback and go,
00:06:37 okay, he might not be great at everything,
00:06:39 but I understand the way that he wants to play the game.
00:06:41 And I know if we call this play,
00:06:43 what we're gonna get out of it, good or bad.
00:06:46 And I think that having that is important
00:06:48 because it kind of helps your play caller at the next level
00:06:50 be able to shape what the offense wants to do with you.
00:06:53 Whereas if you're a little bit bouncing all over the place,
00:06:56 it can be kind of hard to put together
00:06:58 consistent offense in certain ways.
00:07:00 And then the other obvious one is arm talent.
00:07:02 The NFL is a talent league, man.
00:07:06 Like you can get away with a lot of stuff in college,
00:07:08 but in the NFL, like you've got to be able
00:07:11 to just make certain throws
00:07:12 and you can get away with having a couple of clubs
00:07:16 missing from your bag,
00:07:17 but at a certain point you've got to have most of them.
00:07:20 And so I think if there are certain throws you can't make,
00:07:23 you might be able to live in the NFL,
00:07:26 like Tua is an example, like he can live,
00:07:29 but you know that there's a cap at a certain point
00:07:31 because there's just throws that he cannot make.
00:07:34 - It makes a lot of sense,
00:07:35 especially now with all these address and everything,
00:07:39 like you're having to throw a platform,
00:07:41 you're not always gonna be able
00:07:42 to have a good base under you.
00:07:43 So you're seeing the differences,
00:07:44 like I forget where I saw it,
00:07:46 but somebody was talking about,
00:07:47 maybe it was Steven Ruiz,
00:07:48 about how a lot of the best quarterbacks
00:07:50 are so good at that throw where you're drifting back
00:07:52 and they kind of fade away
00:07:53 where you can just launch that thing.
00:07:55 Because I mean, like they're just sending an all out blitz
00:07:58 and you can do that Patrick Mahomes
00:07:59 where you back up, back up, back up,
00:08:00 and then you give a little bit of time
00:08:02 and just fire that thing.
00:08:03 Like in the big games,
00:08:04 those are the kinds of things that make a difference.
00:08:06 Or if they want to heat you up,
00:08:07 can you beat them with your arm?
00:08:08 I love that.
00:08:09 Now, speaking of Mahomes,
00:08:11 I feel like he's someone
00:08:12 who tends to be one of the poster children
00:08:14 for it's like, you know, in college,
00:08:16 I mean, I think they're kind of overrated,
00:08:17 but in terms of like having deficiencies in college,
00:08:20 and then you get to the NFL
00:08:21 and when you get the right offensive coordinator
00:08:23 and coaching around you,
00:08:24 you can start to kind of wean those things out,
00:08:26 survive on some of your talent
00:08:27 and the things you come in that are your pros,
00:08:29 and then start to wean those out.
00:08:31 And then sometimes you see that they never really go away.
00:08:33 Like with Josh Allen, for example,
00:08:34 you see that golden retriever mentality.
00:08:37 He's had that since college and he's reeled back on it,
00:08:39 but you still see the games where it's like, all right,
00:08:41 bad Josh Allen came out to play today.
00:08:43 So what are some deficiencies that you think
00:08:45 are kind of reasonable to expect with good coaching
00:08:48 and good supporting cast can be kind of ironed out
00:08:52 in within the first contract, let's say,
00:08:54 and what are even some positive qualities
00:08:56 that you think kind of get overblown
00:08:58 when it comes to evaluating these guys?
00:09:00 - I mean, I would say footwork is definitely the thing
00:09:03 that you can improve on.
00:09:04 I actually, there are like two sections of footwork, right?
00:09:08 Like one, there's like in your drop back
00:09:11 and then like cycling through your progressions.
00:09:13 And then there's how do I keep my base under me
00:09:15 when I'm moving around?
00:09:16 I think the second one is a little bit more innate.
00:09:18 Like you kind of have that sense
00:09:20 of how to keep yourself balanced or you don't.
00:09:22 I think being able to stay on balance and on pace
00:09:25 throughout your drop back and like,
00:09:26 as you cycle one to two to three,
00:09:28 I think that is very, very coachable.
00:09:30 Like that was something kind of, you know,
00:09:31 Patrick Mahomes kind of struggled with.
00:09:33 Josh Allen, to your point,
00:09:34 dude, Josh Allen's footwork when he came into the league
00:09:36 and really his first two years in the league
00:09:38 was horrible.
00:09:39 Like he was just all over the place, over striding,
00:09:42 never really had his front foot set where it needed to be.
00:09:46 But now he's one of the cleanest quarterbacks in the league
00:09:48 because he worked at it and he understood
00:09:50 how to make it work for his body.
00:09:52 And like, that's, I think one of the things where
00:09:55 with enough time, with enough reps,
00:09:57 if you're really willing to work at it,
00:09:58 you can kind of fix that.
00:09:59 So I think footwork is definitely the big one.
00:10:02 Another thing, this is gonna be weird to say,
00:10:06 but like, I think sometimes the like trait
00:10:10 that can be overblown a little bit is accuracy
00:10:12 in the sense of, I think sometimes we're just bad
00:10:15 at understanding like what is and isn't accurate
00:10:18 at the college level.
00:10:19 Like again, Anthony Richardson last year,
00:10:21 like he was having to make so many difficult throws
00:10:25 into so many tight windows that I think people just thought
00:10:28 because he wasn't completing them,
00:10:30 they were like, oh, well, he's not accurate.
00:10:32 And it's like, but if you watch the way that he's trying
00:10:34 to place the ball around defenders,
00:10:36 trying to make these throws work
00:10:37 that are really, really difficult,
00:10:39 I think you can work with that.
00:10:40 And I think he even showed early in his NFL career,
00:10:42 like he's accurate enough
00:10:44 that this is gonna figure itself out.
00:10:45 So I think the guys that are like kind of super pinpoint
00:10:49 accurate in college, it's going to translate,
00:10:51 but like sometimes we overrate it,
00:10:53 like not to bag on Tua again,
00:10:55 but like that was obviously Tua's thing coming out
00:10:57 of college and he's been good at that in the NFL,
00:10:59 but at a certain point you kind of need a little bit more
00:11:02 than just that one, two, three rhythm accuracy.
00:11:05 The way the receivers actually adjust to the ball
00:11:08 can make the pass look very different.
00:11:10 If it's clean, it...
00:11:12 - That was the Anthony Richardson of Florida thing.
00:11:14 I swear to God, I have never, ever seen power five receivers
00:11:19 adjust to the ball as poorly in the air as they did.
00:11:22 And they made so many like reasonably accurate throws
00:11:26 look so bad.
00:11:27 Whereas like if he was at Washington this year
00:11:30 and playing with those receivers,
00:11:31 they would have been accurate
00:11:32 because Romo Dunes knows how to find the ball.
00:11:34 Jalen Polk knows how to find the ball.
00:11:35 Jalen McMillan knows how to find the ball.
00:11:37 And so, yeah, exactly to your point.
00:11:39 Sometimes the receivers can just make stuff look ugly.
00:11:42 Whereas there's still some of that in the NFL,
00:11:45 but these dudes are pros.
00:11:46 There's less of that in the NFL for sure.
00:11:49 - Right, right.
00:11:50 All right, before we actually get into these prospects,
00:11:52 we got to pay the bills.
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00:12:33 (upbeat music)
00:12:35 - All right, so we're going to start these out
00:12:39 with the quarterbacks that you have ranked,
00:12:41 who you think are going to go on the first round.
00:12:43 Now I want your evaluations,
00:12:45 and also little hints of how they could fit
00:12:47 in the Patriots system.
00:12:48 Now, of course, there's the awkward caveat
00:12:50 of the Patriots don't have a system right now.
00:12:52 They don't have an offensive coordinator,
00:12:53 but we have seen that it's very clear
00:12:55 they're trying to go to that Sean McVay type of tree.
00:12:57 So just assuming that's the kind of offense
00:13:00 they want to implement,
00:13:00 which also it's still awkward
00:13:02 because it's a system that's very adaptable.
00:13:04 We've seen it go through Jared Goff.
00:13:05 We've seen it go through Matthew Stafford.
00:13:07 They were outside zone.
00:13:08 Now they're super duo heavy.
00:13:09 So they are adaptable,
00:13:11 but of course there's some key tenants to each system
00:13:13 that tend to carry over.
00:13:14 So what you think of each of these guys,
00:13:16 and then of course,
00:13:17 how you think they could potentially fit in that offense.
00:13:19 So first up,
00:13:20 this is a fun one.
00:13:23 I remember I was like,
00:13:24 oh, we're getting spicy.
00:13:25 Okay, Drake May, let us know.
00:13:28 Why is he QB1 instead of,
00:13:30 I feel like most people's consensus, Caleb Williams.
00:13:34 - I'm going to start it off very, very simply.
00:13:37 Look at all of the top quarterbacks in the NFL.
00:13:40 Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert.
00:13:44 I'm going to leave off Lamar
00:13:45 'cause he's kind of like an outlier
00:13:46 in terms of the way that he's built.
00:13:48 All of those dudes are like 6'3 plus, 220 plus.
00:13:52 They're built like cyborgs and they're really good athletes.
00:13:55 Guess what Drake May is?
00:13:56 He's 6'3 plus, 220 plus,
00:13:58 and he's a really damn good athlete.
00:14:00 And he's got an arm.
00:14:01 All those dudes obviously have really, really good arms.
00:14:03 So I think you kind of just start from the standpoint
00:14:06 of like he is built and athletically has the tools
00:14:10 of all the guys who are at the elite level.
00:14:13 And then I watched him play,
00:14:15 and man, he's just got all the stuff that I love.
00:14:17 Like I talked about pocket presence earlier.
00:14:19 I think the way that he manages the pocket is fantastic.
00:14:21 There are a couple of times
00:14:23 where he does the Madden drop thing,
00:14:24 where he like kind of just shuffles back from pressure
00:14:27 when probably he shouldn't and can run himself into trouble.
00:14:29 But I think that's kind of just something you live with.
00:14:32 I think generally he does a really good job
00:14:34 of knowing when and where to move in the pocket.
00:14:36 And the other thing that is especially impressive
00:14:38 to me about that is there are certain guys
00:14:41 that understand how to preempt pressure.
00:14:43 Like they know where it's coming from before they snap,
00:14:45 and they know where they're going to be able to move
00:14:47 instead of just like reacting in the moment.
00:14:50 Like Caleb is more of a like react in the moment guy.
00:14:52 And he obviously, it works for him.
00:14:54 He's incredible.
00:14:55 But Drake May has this quality to him
00:14:57 where he understands where it's coming from.
00:14:58 And he'll know that he can like,
00:15:00 as soon as he even gets the snap,
00:15:02 he'll start drifting a little bit
00:15:03 'cause he knows where it's coming from.
00:15:04 Like Trevor Lawrence had this quality.
00:15:06 If you watch guys like Matthew Stafford, he has this quality.
00:15:08 Tom Brady obviously had this quality.
00:15:10 They just know where it's coming from and they can,
00:15:13 like they won't even get pressured even when they should
00:15:16 because they know how to beat it.
00:15:17 So obviously I think that's really impressive from him.
00:15:20 The arm talent is crazy.
00:15:22 Like it's probably not quite as good as like Justin Herbert,
00:15:26 but it feels like pretty close to that level.
00:15:30 Like he's not going to be in that S tier,
00:15:32 but he's going to be right in that tier under that
00:15:34 where it's like, okay, he can do everything
00:15:36 and he can throw outside the pocket really well.
00:15:37 He can throw on the move, different platforms.
00:15:39 You know, the stuff you mentioned about that,
00:15:41 Steven Ruiz was talking about where he can make that like,
00:15:43 kind of just flicks back and uses his core.
00:15:45 Like he can do all that stuff.
00:15:47 And then the other thing, like everyone is so excited
00:15:51 about Caleb as like this, this creative,
00:15:53 like he can do all this crazy stuff.
00:15:55 And obviously he has that.
00:15:56 Drake May has a lot of that, dude.
00:15:59 Like he plays completely unhinged.
00:16:01 Like he does some crazy stuff sometimes.
00:16:05 Probably to his detriment, but like,
00:16:07 he's probably more like Josh Allen than I think,
00:16:09 than I think people realize.
00:16:10 Like, I think he gets billed as a little bit more
00:16:13 of like the clean cut pocket passer in this class.
00:16:16 He's, he tries to do some insane stuff.
00:16:19 But even to the point of Josh Allen,
00:16:20 he's not as athletic as Josh Allen,
00:16:22 but he's also a really good runner.
00:16:23 I think in a straight line,
00:16:24 he's probably the most athletic quarterback in this class
00:16:27 outside of Jaden Daniels.
00:16:29 Caleb is a little bit quicker, a little bit like shiftier,
00:16:31 but I think just like purely in a straight line
00:16:32 when he's striding, Drake make a move.
00:16:35 Like that dude goes.
00:16:36 So I don't know.
00:16:37 He's, he just has a lot of stuff for me that it's like,
00:16:40 from a, from a tools perspective, he's got everything.
00:16:43 And then I watched, like I said,
00:16:44 some of the way that he'll process stuff, pre-snap,
00:16:46 some of the decisions he's making with where to put the ball
00:16:49 relative to defenders is really impressive.
00:16:51 Like he just, he's got everything in the bag.
00:16:53 Like there's really not that much that I could ask for
00:16:57 that he doesn't already have.
00:16:59 - I feel like he gets a bad rap
00:17:00 because of where he goes to school.
00:17:02 And also because you see those like crazy Josh Allen plays.
00:17:05 And I'm kind of guilty of this, honestly.
00:17:07 There was one game where he did it at Sun,
00:17:08 I think it was against Duke.
00:17:09 And I'm like, he's got a little bit of Mack Jones in him
00:17:11 where he's just like, oh my God, what are you doing?
00:17:13 But the difference is it works.
00:17:15 He's got the athleticism to actually make these things
00:17:17 happen and pull them off.
00:17:19 And also his vision, like just the fact that it's like
00:17:22 that Josh Allen thing where like this weekend,
00:17:23 I'm watching Lamar Jackson,
00:17:25 I'm seeing shades of Jaden Daniels,
00:17:27 where it's just like, it terrifies you as a defense
00:17:29 because even if you do everything right, he can kill you.
00:17:32 And with Josh Allen, where it's like, you know,
00:17:34 the whole thing where it's like next gen stats,
00:17:36 where I think he's like six for six,
00:17:37 throwing one yard from the sideline or something like that,
00:17:40 where that's not what Drake does,
00:17:41 but it's similar thing where you think the play is dead.
00:17:44 I posted, it's like two minutes of Drake May being chaotic
00:17:46 against Duke because you think he's going down
00:17:49 and then he flicks it to somebody.
00:17:50 And it feels like he always knows where the outlet is
00:17:52 and he has enough of an arm where even if it's not
00:17:54 a perfect throw, when you think the play is dead,
00:17:57 he can still get it out.
00:17:58 And especially when he gets himself into trouble,
00:18:00 I feel like all these young guys, at some point,
00:18:03 you're gonna make a mistake.
00:18:04 You're gonna, you know, make a boneheaded decision
00:18:06 where, oh, now we're dealing with third and 12,
00:18:08 because, you know, there was that play where like,
00:18:10 he decides to run out of bounds and loses two yards
00:18:12 instead of throwing it away.
00:18:13 But then a couple of plays later, he converts
00:18:16 because he's got a crazy arm and all this talent.
00:18:18 So I feel like he's the best fit
00:18:20 for that kind of McVay system,
00:18:22 because I do see shades of the Stafford where,
00:18:24 it's not the same, but you see some of the eye manipulation
00:18:26 pre-snap, you see the like ability to adjust his arm slot.
00:18:29 So in your opinion, do you think he's probably
00:18:31 the best fit of these guys in that kind of system?
00:18:34 - I think so.
00:18:35 And Stafford is really the perfect comparison.
00:18:38 Like we've, or even it's a little bit more of, again,
00:18:40 like a kind of different offshoot of this offense,
00:18:43 but even like Gino, he kind of has some of like
00:18:45 the qualities of like the certain throws
00:18:47 that he's willing to make, the caliber of arm talent,
00:18:49 where again, like Gino, like I just said with May,
00:18:52 isn't in the S tier of arm,
00:18:54 but he's probably in that next year where it's like,
00:18:55 this dude could gun it just about anywhere that he wants to.
00:18:58 And he has that just toughness in the pocket.
00:19:01 And obviously Stafford has that, Gino has that.
00:19:03 So I think he's probably like that version
00:19:06 of quarterback in this offense,
00:19:08 where like you can do a little bit more drop back,
00:19:09 don't need to be as under center as much,
00:19:11 don't need to do as much of the boot stuff.
00:19:13 You can kind of lean into the more,
00:19:15 we're going to throw a bunch of dig routes over the middle
00:19:18 and we're going to trust that our quarterback can make them.
00:19:20 So I definitely think he's the best fit for this offense
00:19:22 and just flatly the best quarterback period.
00:19:25 - Yeah, but I miss that also just his ability
00:19:27 to throw over the middle of the field.
00:19:28 It's just, I haven't seen anybody in this class
00:19:30 do it better on a consistent basis.
00:19:32 If you take the crossers away, he'll throw the post
00:19:34 and it's going to be on the money.
00:19:36 Like outside I was watching,
00:19:37 I feel like sometimes throwing a nine route,
00:19:39 he doesn't always lead his receiver.
00:19:41 Sometimes he's going to stop or slow down,
00:19:43 but over the middle it's like, no,
00:19:44 he's putting that thing wherever the hell he wants
00:19:45 and it's exciting.
00:19:46 I'm glad we're on the same page.
00:19:48 I feel like people just don't,
00:19:50 because you see like the Caleb and the Jaden
00:19:52 and all the exciting plays they make.
00:19:53 But I think, I agree.
00:19:55 I really do think that Drake is that guy,
00:19:57 but moving on, Caleb.
00:19:58 So QB2, what do you think?
00:20:00 - Caleb's awesome.
00:20:02 I like, people are going to be mad
00:20:04 that he's quarterbacked too,
00:20:05 but like it's pretty neck and neck, man.
00:20:07 Like these guys are really, really good.
00:20:09 And I wouldn't fault anybody
00:20:10 for having Caleb quarterback one, obviously.
00:20:12 Like he does some stuff that Drake just doesn't.
00:20:15 Caleb is funny because I've kind of come full circle
00:20:18 in a way where coming into the season,
00:20:21 he actually was my quarterback one.
00:20:23 And I was like, man, this guy,
00:20:24 like the arm talent, the arm elasticity,
00:20:26 the athleticism, it's incredible.
00:20:28 The creativity is awesome.
00:20:30 I don't love his process sometimes,
00:20:31 but like it's good enough and he'll figure it out.
00:20:33 And then I watched like his first like four or five games
00:20:36 this season, not some of them like studying,
00:20:39 but some of them just live.
00:20:40 And I was like, he looks a little off.
00:20:43 Like he's like, I don't know if it's like the,
00:20:45 when Trevor Lawrence had his final year
00:20:47 and he just kind of didn't play very well
00:20:48 the early, the beginning of the season,
00:20:50 it kind of felt like something like that.
00:20:52 So I was like, ah,
00:20:52 maybe he's not exactly what I thought he was.
00:20:55 But then I actually just finished charting him,
00:20:57 like all of, you know, all of through his 2023 season.
00:21:00 By the end of it, I was like, yeah,
00:21:01 this guy is pretty damn good, man.
00:21:03 Like he's got all the stuff that I want.
00:21:05 Like what really impressed me actually was
00:21:09 his pocket presence is way better than I thought it was.
00:21:13 Obviously he can do all the crazy stuff
00:21:15 to get outside of the pocket and go create
00:21:17 and do all the twirling around
00:21:19 and whatever it is that he does to get out of pressure.
00:21:21 But there are like three, four instances,
00:21:24 a game on tape where he's eyes up strong base under him,
00:21:28 and then he'll go make a throw.
00:21:29 And it's like, okay, like maybe you're not gonna do this
00:21:31 quite to the same consistency as a Drake May or whatever,
00:21:34 but like you clearly can do it.
00:21:36 And this is gonna be part of your game,
00:21:37 even though you're a little bit of a shorter quarterback.
00:21:40 So I think that was really impressive to me.
00:21:42 Obviously the arm talent and is just, it's incredible.
00:21:45 Like some of the throws that he can get away with
00:21:48 and make are just amazing.
00:21:49 And to me, it's not even just like the raw velocity
00:21:52 that he can get.
00:21:53 He throws with such incredible touch
00:21:55 for how hard he throws the ball.
00:21:58 And then he can do it from any arm angle.
00:21:59 He can do the fading back.
00:22:01 He can do it on the run.
00:22:02 He'll do some weird stuff.
00:22:03 Like he threw like four like sky hook passes this year
00:22:07 where he's literally like hooking it over his helmet.
00:22:09 I'm like, what is wrong with you?
00:22:11 Why are you doing this?
00:22:12 And it works because he just has this.
00:22:14 Yeah, it's like, whatever, man.
00:22:16 If you're gonna complete it, do whatever you want.
00:22:18 But he just has this like way of just manipulating his arm
00:22:22 to do whatever it needs to.
00:22:24 And it's incredible to watch.
00:22:25 It's really rare.
00:22:26 Like that's where the Mahomes comps are too much,
00:22:29 but that's the one spot where I watch and I'm like, okay,
00:22:32 I don't know if any other quarterback is doing it
00:22:34 the way that that guy's doing it.
00:22:36 So I thought that was really impressive.
00:22:38 And then what I really wanted to touch on with Caleb too
00:22:40 actually was his process.
00:22:43 I think he gets knocked a little bit too much
00:22:46 for being like the creative chaos, go do whatever I want.
00:22:51 I don't actually think it's that bad.
00:22:54 And especially as I got towards the end of the season,
00:22:57 I thought he was progressing at being able to just like
00:22:59 stay in the pocket, go one to two to three,
00:23:02 do what I need to do, you know,
00:23:03 get through my reads and make the right decisions.
00:23:05 I think what like trips people up is there's one,
00:23:08 maybe two instances a game where they'll call it
00:23:11 quick game concept.
00:23:12 And he's just like, I don't want to throw it.
00:23:13 And it's like, okay, if you can go create
00:23:17 and do whatever you want, because you think that you can,
00:23:19 you know, you need 15 yards here and you don't want five,
00:23:23 fine, but he does it kind of consistently.
00:23:25 And again, it's in a way where it's like, okay,
00:23:28 I understand what I'm getting here.
00:23:30 Like, I know that he's just going to have one or two
00:23:31 of these plays a game where he just does that.
00:23:33 I really don't think it's that he can't see it
00:23:35 or he's not understanding what the defense is giving him.
00:23:38 'Cause there are plenty of instances to me where
00:23:40 you'll see a blitz boom replaces it,
00:23:42 or he sees certain leverage on a coverage, boom, hits it.
00:23:44 And it's like, I know he can do these things.
00:23:46 He just one or two times a game is like, I'm Superman.
00:23:49 I'm going to go be Superman.
00:23:51 And he's talented enough to go do it.
00:23:52 So I really think he's incredible.
00:23:55 Me putting him at quarterback two is no knock on him.
00:23:58 I just slightly prefer Drake May, but Caleb is amazing.
00:24:02 - And in terms of, I know you got some beef
00:24:04 with their offense and just like how it's structured.
00:24:07 So I know people think of him and it's like,
00:24:09 oh, he's got so many bad habits.
00:24:10 He's going to bring those into the league.
00:24:12 How much of it do you think was him being Superman?
00:24:14 'Cause he truly had to,
00:24:16 because some of these concepts just weren't very good
00:24:18 and just the talent around him.
00:24:19 And do you think that when he gets to the next level,
00:24:21 if he has good structure around him,
00:24:23 that's something that he can resolve relatively quickly?
00:24:26 - I do.
00:24:27 And yeah, again, the offense,
00:24:28 I just don't really like how it's structured to me.
00:24:30 I think I tweeted something like this.
00:24:32 It's like an experiment.
00:24:33 And how many times can you run RPOs to the flat
00:24:35 and then run wheel routes?
00:24:37 Like that's the offense.
00:24:38 Like that's all that they're trying to do.
00:24:40 They'll throw a couple of stick routes in there
00:24:41 just to spice it up.
00:24:42 But it's really infuriating to me when I watch.
00:24:45 And then honestly, what's really infuriating to me is like,
00:24:48 when they do try to do some other stuff,
00:24:50 like with intermediate passing concepts,
00:24:52 I don't know if it's that they give receivers freedom
00:24:56 or if they're just not teaching it well,
00:24:59 but like guys are ending up in really weird landmarks
00:25:02 and like clearly not on the same page as Caleb.
00:25:04 And so like he'll throw to a spot, receiver overruns it,
00:25:07 or Caleb is throwing to a spot, receiver settles down.
00:25:10 And it's like, I don't think this is on Caleb
00:25:13 because all the receivers are doing it consistently.
00:25:15 This to me feels like it's kind of baked
00:25:18 into the Riley Cliff offense
00:25:20 to have a little bit of like freedom and creativity.
00:25:24 I actually think Caleb would benefit
00:25:25 if we could just be like, guys, hit the landmark.
00:25:28 I know where to make the throw.
00:25:29 I'm gonna get it there.
00:25:31 My footwork might be a little weird.
00:25:32 My timing might be a little weird,
00:25:34 but I'm gonna get the ball there.
00:25:36 And so I actually think that if he gets into a more,
00:25:39 you know, proper sound NFL offense,
00:25:42 I actually have pretty good faith that he's,
00:25:44 you know, maybe not year one,
00:25:45 maybe it takes a year or two like Josh Allen,
00:25:46 but I think he's gonna be just fine.
00:25:49 - And it's obviously like you said,
00:25:50 the Mahomes comps aren't fair,
00:25:51 but like a Mahomes where Andy reads like,
00:25:53 hey, the first two and a half seconds of the play are mine.
00:25:56 If he can get Caleb into a structured system
00:25:58 where he can actually feel comfortable doing that,
00:26:01 that's when it gets really exciting
00:26:02 because then he's comfortable actually operating
00:26:05 within the structure of the play.
00:26:06 And if it breaks down,
00:26:07 that's when the magic starts to happen.
00:26:09 I really hope he gets in a good landing spot
00:26:11 and they don't just waste all of his talent.
00:26:13 Moving on to QB three, Jaden Daniels.
00:26:16 Now there's been a lot of talk about him moving up the board
00:26:19 probably seeking into that QB two category.
00:26:21 Talk is usually that he could jump over Drake May,
00:26:25 but you have Drake as QB one.
00:26:26 So do you think there's a chance
00:26:28 that he could jump either one of these guys?
00:26:29 How high do you think he could potentially be taken,
00:26:32 in a sense that it would be reasonable
00:26:33 and not a team just kind of reaching for?
00:26:36 - I think it's possible only on the basis of like,
00:26:42 he is very clearly the best athlete
00:26:44 at the position in this class.
00:26:46 And he has a good enough arm,
00:26:47 but just when you watch him athletically, it's like, okay,
00:26:49 nobody is gonna be able to run as fast
00:26:51 in the open field as him.
00:26:52 Nobody is as quick as him, like not even Caleb.
00:26:54 Like Caleb is about as quick and agile
00:26:56 as you can get for a quarterback.
00:26:58 Daniels is even better than that.
00:26:59 Like, it's crazy how much of an athlete he really is.
00:27:02 And I could totally see, yeah, it's a different speed, bro.
00:27:05 Like some of the clips against like Florida specifically.
00:27:08 - Yeah.
00:27:09 - I'm like, dude, I don't know how you're moving like that
00:27:11 at this position.
00:27:12 It's like legitimately Lamar, like RG three,
00:27:16 Justin Fields-esque, like where you're just like,
00:27:18 he's at a different caliber of athlete
00:27:21 than everybody else on the field.
00:27:23 So I would get how that could entice a team.
00:27:26 I just don't think it should happen though.
00:27:28 Like he's, as a passer, I think he's fine
00:27:33 and like has a lot of interesting traits,
00:27:35 but I don't think he's even close to these other two
00:27:38 as a passer, just in terms of,
00:27:40 and I'll say, I'll start with the good, actually.
00:27:42 I actually really appreciate his pocket presence.
00:27:44 That dude is tough as nails.
00:27:46 And he has a decent understanding of where to move
00:27:49 and how to get, like, I don't think it's as good
00:27:51 as Drake May or even Caleb,
00:27:52 but he has enough of an NFL baseline
00:27:54 of understanding where to move and keep himself clean
00:27:57 that I think he should be able to function there.
00:27:59 And then he throws pretty decent
00:28:01 when his platform is crowded.
00:28:03 Like, I don't think that's that much of an issue for him.
00:28:05 I think he can figure that out.
00:28:07 The arm talent is, I think, acceptable.
00:28:10 I think he throws it really well down the field
00:28:12 and that like kind of inflates how good his arm seems.
00:28:16 I think sometimes he struggles throwing
00:28:17 outside the numbers a little bit,
00:28:18 but not to the degree of like two or Mac Jones or anything.
00:28:21 I think it's more just like Jared Goff,
00:28:24 where it's like this, he can do it,
00:28:25 but maybe this isn't the best throw in his bag.
00:28:27 - It's not a focal point.
00:28:28 - Yeah, it's like, we're going to try to not do this
00:28:31 as much as we can, but he can get away with it.
00:28:33 I do think on the other hand, though,
00:28:36 what bugs me a little bit with him is where,
00:28:38 like I mentioned with Caleb,
00:28:40 his process might not be perfect, but I know what it is.
00:28:45 Like, I know what I'm getting when a certain thing
00:28:47 is happening, when a certain concept is called,
00:28:49 when a certain thing happens to him, whatever.
00:28:51 With Jaden Daniels, it's a lot more confusing to me.
00:28:55 Like he, I just don't understand some of the decisions
00:28:58 that he's making, like he'll get a man zone indicator
00:29:01 with motion, and then he just like won't throw the route
00:29:04 that you're supposed to throw.
00:29:05 And then he'll just, I just don't understand
00:29:08 what he's doing, and then there will be certain times
00:29:10 where he's very willing to turn
00:29:11 and make a backside dig throw.
00:29:13 Other times where he just has no interest in doing it
00:29:15 and will throw a slot fade that is clearly covered.
00:29:17 And it's like, I just can't get a good gauge
00:29:21 of exactly where he's at, because like I said,
00:29:23 he has these flashes where he can go one to two to three,
00:29:27 step up in the pocket, dig route, or like backside post,
00:29:29 or get to a check down.
00:29:31 Like he has these moments where he looks
00:29:32 like an NFL processor, it's just inconsistent.
00:29:35 And so to me, it's a little bit of a double edged sword
00:29:39 where it's like, okay, I feel good that coming
00:29:41 into the league, he'll have an okay baseline.
00:29:43 Like we can get him to a functional spot.
00:29:45 It's just a matter of like, how consistent
00:29:48 are we ever gonna get him when like,
00:29:50 this is a dude who's played for five years.
00:29:52 And if he's still a little bit inconsistent at this point,
00:29:55 you wonder like how far he can really go.
00:29:57 It was the same concern I had with Kenny Pickett.
00:29:59 Obviously Pickett was a lot less talented,
00:30:01 so it hurt him more to be that way.
00:30:04 I mean, and Daniels is more talented and tougher than that.
00:30:07 But I do have that same concern where it's like,
00:30:09 you've already played a lot
00:30:10 and you're still a little up and down.
00:30:13 It gives me some concerns.
00:30:14 So I think he's actually a pretty high floor prospect.
00:30:18 I just think the passing ceiling is like,
00:30:21 I don't know if he's ever gonna be in that like elite tier.
00:30:25 - I was actually curious what you think his ceiling is.
00:30:27 'Cause I know watching him with Drake
00:30:29 and even with Caleb, maybe not as consistently,
00:30:32 but I feel like they stay on schedule very well.
00:30:34 Like Drake knows, all right, it's not really here.
00:30:36 I should run it.
00:30:37 Even if he misses something, it's like, all right,
00:30:38 he understands he's athletic enough
00:30:40 to stay ahead of the chains.
00:30:41 And it's like really consistent drives.
00:30:43 With Jaden, I'm like, I just don't see it.
00:30:45 I feel like these drives are really clunky
00:30:48 and he's not really, but then rips off a 50 yard run
00:30:51 and it's like, all right, yeah.
00:30:52 In the league, like he's probably gonna make
00:30:54 these same mistakes where, like you said,
00:30:56 especially with the over the middle stuff,
00:30:57 he'll be looking right at it.
00:30:59 It's like, what are we waiting for?
00:31:00 - Yeah, I'm like, throw it, bro.
00:31:02 - And he doesn't, and it's weird
00:31:03 because you'd expect from a mobile quarterback.
00:31:05 It's like, oh, he's just looking to run.
00:31:06 It's like, no, he's very good.
00:31:08 He'll stay in the pocket forever,
00:31:09 but he doesn't throw the ball.
00:31:11 So at the next level, where do you think
00:31:13 a good quarterback coach can get him?
00:31:15 And I feel like a lot of the talk about him
00:31:17 is he's on that trajectory
00:31:18 where every year he's gotten better,
00:31:20 but he is an older prospect.
00:31:21 So do you think when he gets to the NFL,
00:31:23 it's like a Jalen Hurts thing
00:31:25 where obviously this season was a little funky,
00:31:27 but where he can kind of continue that ascension
00:31:28 and just learns really quickly?
00:31:30 Or is that something where it's more kind of innate
00:31:32 and it might take him longer than you might want?
00:31:35 With the understanding that, of course,
00:31:37 with that athleticism and the ability
00:31:38 to rip off these crazy long runs
00:31:41 or just drop it in the bucket,
00:31:42 like 40, 50 yards downfield down the sideline
00:31:45 to kind of make up for it,
00:31:46 do you think he can become more consistent
00:31:48 where those things help his game
00:31:49 instead of kind of being a crutch
00:31:51 where he's having to deal with all the other deficiencies?
00:31:54 - I think that Jalen Hurts,
00:31:56 like I don't think they're one-to-one as players
00:31:57 or anything, but I think that tier-ish of quarterback
00:32:00 where it's like he's above average,
00:32:03 he does certain things really, really well
00:32:05 that you can build the offense around,
00:32:07 and he gets like kind of better,
00:32:09 like 2% better every year,
00:32:11 but you know that it's gonna be really hard for that.
00:32:15 How do I describe this?
00:32:16 I think there are certain prospects
00:32:17 where there can be a light bulb moment
00:32:21 where they become something unbelievable,
00:32:22 like Josh Allen, obviously.
00:32:23 Like Josh Allen, you could see
00:32:25 that he had all these physical tools
00:32:27 and he needed this light bulb moment
00:32:29 where he could be incredible.
00:32:31 I struggle to see how that's gonna happen
00:32:33 with Jaden Daniels, 'cause again, he's played so long,
00:32:35 and he's played in relatively pro-style passing offenses.
00:32:39 The stuff they were doing at LSU was real deal stuff, bro.
00:32:43 They're throwing real football concepts,
00:32:45 and he's already got reps in this stuff.
00:32:48 It's not gonna be that much of a learning curve
00:32:49 in that sense, so I think kind of in that Jalen Hurts tier
00:32:52 where it's like you can get him to be quarterback nine
00:32:57 to 15 just depending on some of the circumstances
00:33:01 and other stuff like that.
00:33:03 So I think that's probably the best case scenario.
00:33:06 My comparison for him actually doesn't make
00:33:08 that much sense relative to that.
00:33:09 To me, he feels like he has Tyrod's tools,
00:33:12 but with Ryan Fitzpatrick's brain,
00:33:15 where he's very willing to stay in the pocket,
00:33:17 very willing to make some insane throws,
00:33:20 very willing to get himself killed by a linebacker.
00:33:23 - I feel like that Looney Tunes play
00:33:25 is starting to go over Twitter,
00:33:26 where he just like, that's the biggest thing also is,
00:33:30 when we talk about size, with Drake for me,
00:33:33 I don't wanna be freaking John Elway in the Broncos,
00:33:35 where I'm like, he has to be six four and all this stuff.
00:33:38 Like, I think that's a bit overrated,
00:33:40 but with Drake, it's like, you know,
00:33:41 he's gonna be able to take some big hits
00:33:43 and he'll be able to survive.
00:33:44 Jaden's tough as hell, and he's taking big hits
00:33:47 and hasn't had any significant injuries that I know of,
00:33:49 but the fact that he is still willing to get leveled,
00:33:53 and then it's like, that's your worst case scenario
00:33:54 where it looks like a welcome to the NFL moment,
00:33:56 where it's like, oh, I can take this hit.
00:33:58 No, not only can you not take the hit,
00:34:00 ball's gone the other way.
00:34:01 Like, that's the thing with him where,
00:34:03 on top of some of the passing deficiencies,
00:34:05 it's like, yeah, but he also might get himself killed,
00:34:07 and then you invest all this,
00:34:09 then you're probably down a quarterback,
00:34:11 and it kinda does scare me,
00:34:13 but at the same time, the athleticism,
00:34:15 it's like, if he learns to slide and protect himself,
00:34:18 then you got a real problem on your hands,
00:34:20 because he's gonna walk into the league
00:34:21 as probably the second best scrambler.
00:34:24 And then moving on, past the first round,
00:34:26 now we're moving into the day two prospects.
00:34:29 First one we're gonna talk about is Bo Nix.
00:34:31 Now, I saw Dane Brubler, who I love his stuff.
00:34:34 He is one of the most knowledgeable draft resources
00:34:37 on the planet, I think.
00:34:38 He actually had the Patriots,
00:34:40 in, I think it was his latest mock draft,
00:34:42 taking Marvin Harrison Jr., and then Bo Nix.
00:34:45 And I feel like he's one of the most polarizing guys
00:34:47 in this class, where I see people being like,
00:34:48 oh, no, I'm gonna have him higher than other people.
00:34:50 I really like him.
00:34:51 And other people are like, yeah, no, he's fine,
00:34:53 but let's pump the brakes a little bit.
00:34:56 So where do you stand on him?
00:34:57 - I feel like I'm kind of like a Bo Nix centrist.
00:35:02 (laughing)
00:35:02 I think he's okay.
00:35:04 I don't think he's that bad.
00:35:05 I wouldn't take him in the first round.
00:35:06 I don't think, I see a world where at the very back end
00:35:11 of the first round, if you wanna take the swing,
00:35:14 I wouldn't do it, but I get it.
00:35:15 I mean, shoot, if Kenny Picken can go in the first round,
00:35:18 Bo Nix can go in the first round.
00:35:20 He's more talented than that.
00:35:21 But he's, he kinda, I'll start with,
00:35:25 he kinda has the Jaden Daniels thing of like,
00:35:28 you've played a lot of football
00:35:29 and you're still a little bit inconsistent in certain areas.
00:35:33 Like to me, the inconsistency with Bo is more,
00:35:37 Jaden Daniels will like, his decision-making will fluctuate
00:35:42 and you won't know exactly what you're gonna get.
00:35:44 With Bo, it's just like, he is a little bit late
00:35:47 and just won't trigger on certain stuff.
00:35:49 And obviously I think part of that is the Oregon offense,
00:35:52 like kinda runs a BS offense.
00:35:53 And so it's when they actually call real concepts,
00:35:56 like he just isn't as practiced on them
00:35:59 as he is on some of their other stuff
00:36:00 that they're some of the simpler stuff that he's doing.
00:36:02 And I think he's not like all the way confident in it.
00:36:05 And I think you can see that hurt him,
00:36:07 especially on some throws outside the numbers.
00:36:09 Those are the hardest throws to make
00:36:11 if you're gonna be late,
00:36:12 'cause the sideline is like the extra defender.
00:36:15 So those are really tough.
00:36:16 The other thing with Nix is his footwork is really,
00:36:20 he'll get really bouncy and he'll be late
00:36:23 because of his feet, which I think is really annoying.
00:36:26 And I said earlier that you can fix footwork.
00:36:28 You can fix like drop back footwork.
00:36:30 And I think that's really his biggest issue.
00:36:32 But again, he's played for five seasons in multiple systems.
00:36:34 Like you're 23, 24 years old, man.
00:36:37 Like you should have this a little bit more figured out
00:36:40 than you do at this point.
00:36:41 So that's some of the stuff that does bother me with Nix.
00:36:45 He's like, when you have these older players,
00:36:48 like I said, who are not, don't feel complete yet,
00:36:51 that is always gonna bother me.
00:36:53 At the same time, he's got the tools, dude.
00:36:55 Like he's, I mean, he's built.
00:36:57 I think he's like kind of has the same dimensions
00:37:00 as like Jalen Hurts.
00:37:01 I don't think he's quite as rocked up as Jalen Hurts is,
00:37:05 but that dude can squat 600 or whatever.
00:37:07 So it's a little bit of a different category.
00:37:11 But I think he's kind of similar in that sense.
00:37:14 Athletically, I think he's really quick and he's very,
00:37:18 it's not just that he's quick,
00:37:19 but he kind of has the Caleb-ish quality to him
00:37:21 where he's, as soon as he sees color flash,
00:37:23 he knows to go and he knows where to go and he'll get out.
00:37:26 He's very agile, all that sort of stuff.
00:37:27 In the open field, he's like pretty good runner.
00:37:31 He can get you for 20 yards if you let him.
00:37:33 He's not gonna be Jaden Daniels,
00:37:34 but like he can go get yards if you need him to.
00:37:36 And I think in the NFL nowadays,
00:37:38 you gotta have a guy who can at least go get you 10
00:37:40 when you need it every now and then.
00:37:42 And I think he can go do that.
00:37:44 Then you can use him as a designed runner
00:37:45 a little bit in the red zone.
00:37:46 And I think that's pretty valuable.
00:37:49 In terms of his arm talent,
00:37:51 I think it's pretty good.
00:37:51 Like, I don't think, again, I don't think it's elite,
00:37:53 but like he can rip some of the posts
00:37:55 they put in this offense.
00:37:57 He can rip some throws over the middle.
00:37:58 I think especially off platform,
00:37:59 he's one of those guys where, you know,
00:38:02 sometimes you see quarterbacks who have even good arms.
00:38:04 When they throw off platform,
00:38:05 they just lose a little something
00:38:06 or they lose a little bit of control.
00:38:08 I don't think that's an issue with Nix.
00:38:10 I think he throws pretty well outside the pocket
00:38:12 and on the move.
00:38:13 I think he can maintain that sort of stuff.
00:38:15 So he's, to me, a dice roll I'm kind of willing to take.
00:38:20 On day two, on day two.
00:38:22 I want to be clear about the day two.
00:38:24 Because I just think when you look at the tools,
00:38:27 you know, the athletic ability, the arm talent,
00:38:29 some of his creativity,
00:38:30 I think is actually pretty impressive.
00:38:33 I think it's worth seeing
00:38:34 if you can get something out of him.
00:38:36 Again, I think you might have to simplify the offense
00:38:38 for him a little bit.
00:38:39 Probably never going to be an elite processor,
00:38:42 but you could reasonably get, I think,
00:38:44 decent starting quarterback play out of him.
00:38:46 - So in this hypothetical situation,
00:38:48 if the Patriots have their shot at Drake May
00:38:52 or Jaden Daniels, and they decide,
00:38:54 we're going to get a ridiculous wide receiver,
00:38:56 maybe even if it's like a Joel or someone like that,
00:38:58 where it's like you walk into the NFL
00:39:00 and you're one of the best players at your position,
00:39:02 day one, and then they do get Bo Nix.
00:39:04 Is that going to be the kind of thing
00:39:06 where if you're a Pats fan, you're like,
00:39:07 I can talk myself into it maybe?
00:39:09 Or is it like, no, that's a decent choice.
00:39:11 Like, you know, you don't,
00:39:12 I feel like because there's all these
00:39:13 super powered quarterbacks,
00:39:15 like you think you need that generational guy,
00:39:17 but it's still a team sport.
00:39:18 Like if you've got a good offensive line,
00:39:20 good protection, you're not running for your life,
00:39:22 and you've got a one star receiver
00:39:24 and a bunch of guys who do their job,
00:39:25 is that the kind of situation where you think
00:39:27 they're a legitimate playoff contender
00:39:28 moving forward pretty quickly?
00:39:30 Or is it like, yeah, but you passed up on
00:39:32 a kind of player that could be in certain ways,
00:39:35 a generation, not generational prospect,
00:39:36 but like a potential blue chip prospect
00:39:38 if you develop them well, who could kind of rise all shifts,
00:39:41 even if the supporting cast isn't great.
00:39:43 Is it, that was a long-winded question,
00:39:46 but how would you feel about either one of those scenarios?
00:39:49 - I would not pass up on Drake May,
00:39:52 if he's there for Bo Nix, I definitely would not do that.
00:39:55 But if either the, you know,
00:39:56 the quarterbacks they want are gone,
00:39:58 or like you said, they draft DeWalt, whatever it is,
00:40:00 I do think you can get like reasonably productive play
00:40:03 out of Nixon.
00:40:04 I actually, my comparison for him is Jalen Hurts,
00:40:06 because I think you would kind of build the offense
00:40:08 the same way, where you want to protect him up front,
00:40:11 because he does kind of have like,
00:40:12 I don't think he's completely averse to pressure,
00:40:15 but he's a little bit inconsistent in some of the ways
00:40:17 that he'll handle it within the pocket.
00:40:20 And so like, you kind of need to protect him
00:40:22 the way that Hurts is protected in that sense.
00:40:24 And then I think the way that the offense functions
00:40:26 in Philadelphia, at least last year when it was good,
00:40:28 was a lot of like, okay, we're going to run RPOs,
00:40:31 we're going to throw a bunch of corner outs
00:40:33 to our tight end, corners and sail routes,
00:40:35 we're going to throw as many go balls
00:40:36 as we can get away with to our really good receivers.
00:40:39 And we're going to kind of try to just hone in
00:40:41 on a few things and spam that over and over again,
00:40:43 and then use the quarterback in the run game.
00:40:45 I don't think Nix is going to be as effective
00:40:48 as Jalen Hurts, but he can be as effective a runner
00:40:51 as Daniel Jones, and Daniel Jones
00:40:52 is a pretty dang good runner.
00:40:53 And so I think that you can get that style of offense
00:40:57 and you can get, I think like top half offense
00:40:59 out of a player like that.
00:41:01 Again, like, I don't know, it's not like a certainty,
00:41:03 but I think that's like, if you take that
00:41:05 in the second round or something,
00:41:06 I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities at all.
00:41:09 - I don't think the Pats would have scoffed
00:41:10 at that last season.
00:41:10 I think that might've gotten them in a range
00:41:12 where they couldn't get a really good quarterback
00:41:14 like that, somebody like that.
00:41:16 All right, moving on.
00:41:17 We got JJ McCarthy, another really polarizing guy,
00:41:19 'cause it seemed like the Michigan offense
00:41:21 had everything in their power not to feature him.
00:41:24 He always has, like, you know, especially,
00:41:27 I forget which bowl game it was,
00:41:28 where it was the flea flicker where he gets nailed
00:41:30 and still delivers a pretty ball downfield.
00:41:32 There are those little flashes where you're like,
00:41:34 "All right, damn, JJ, I kind of see it with you."
00:41:37 But at the same time, it's kind of funky
00:41:39 where even in a run-heavy offense,
00:41:41 you don't really see him as a player
00:41:43 who gets a lot of attention.
00:41:44 So what are your thoughts on JJ McCarthy?
00:41:46 - He's another one where, okay,
00:41:49 when I first started watching him, especially this year,
00:41:52 I was like, "I'm out, I don't care.
00:41:54 I don't wanna see this."
00:41:55 He looks like Zach Wilson.
00:41:56 Some of the ways that he throws looks like Zach Wilson.
00:41:59 Like, the way he moves feels very Zach Wilson.
00:42:02 New York Jets, Zach Wilson.
00:42:04 Like, this year's where it's like,
00:42:05 he's halfway competent, but like, not good.
00:42:08 He felt a lot like that when I watched him.
00:42:10 I've actually started to chart him a little bit,
00:42:11 and I'm like, "Okay, I'm coming around a little bit
00:42:16 to like what he is."
00:42:17 Some of the stuff that impressed me,
00:42:20 I think the way he handles himself pre-snap
00:42:22 is actually pretty good, like some of the best in this class.
00:42:25 I think whenever, in that offense,
00:42:27 they run a million motions, like the kind of the short motion
00:42:31 where it's either in or out, you know,
00:42:33 with like the X receiver, they'll kind of just,
00:42:35 or the Z receiver, they'll like short motion him.
00:42:37 It's kind of cheese, but like, he's really good
00:42:40 at understanding what that is giving him
00:42:42 and what it's opening up,
00:42:43 and he'll make that throw almost every time.
00:42:45 And I think that that's pretty valuable,
00:42:46 and he throws a pretty good timing on that.
00:42:48 And then there are certain spots where like,
00:42:49 he just understands leverage that he can attack.
00:42:52 Like, I was actually just charting the TCU game
00:42:55 from last year, obviously.
00:42:57 There's, at the very last second,
00:42:58 one of the safeties like kind of nudges inside
00:43:01 of the number two, like 12 yards on top of him,
00:43:04 and gets into like an inside leverage.
00:43:06 JJ sees it, instantly throws the corner out.
00:43:08 I was like, "Okay, like that type of stuff
00:43:10 is like, that's NFL, like you see an adjustment
00:43:12 and you go make a throw."
00:43:13 Like, that to me is impressive.
00:43:15 His arm talent, I think it's the trickiest part
00:43:19 for me to understand with him,
00:43:20 'cause like, in terms of RPMs, spins it.
00:43:23 Like, he can spin the ball.
00:43:26 The problem to me is he does not have any touch whatsoever.
00:43:30 Like, he just doesn't, especially outside the numbers.
00:43:33 Like, when he's, if it's like man coverage
00:43:35 and he's trying to throw a corner out,
00:43:36 where like the DB is like kind of playing under
00:43:39 and trying to undercut it and you gotta put over it,
00:43:41 can't do it.
00:43:42 Like, some of the throws that he's gotta make in the flat
00:43:44 because of touch, can't do it.
00:43:47 Some of the throws that he even has to make
00:43:48 over the middle of the field, like down the seam,
00:43:51 just can't do it sometimes, 'cause he just doesn't have
00:43:53 that like ability to put arc on the ball.
00:43:55 And that to me is like really the,
00:43:57 that to me is the mark of like good arm talent,
00:43:59 is a guy who could put arc on the ball
00:44:01 and get it to fly where it wants to fly.
00:44:03 JJ is more of a one-speed thrower,
00:44:05 and that hurts him in a lot of instances.
00:44:07 But for throwing dig routes and slant routes
00:44:10 and some of the stuff over the middle, some crossers,
00:44:12 it's really good.
00:44:13 And he's really, really good at those throws.
00:44:15 And I think that you can build an offense out of that.
00:44:17 The Shanahan guys, there's 10 of them
00:44:19 that are doing it right now.
00:44:20 And I think he would be really good in that offense.
00:44:21 So he does do some stuff that bugs me.
00:44:24 You know, I don't think his pocket movement is very good.
00:44:26 Like I mentioned, his arm talent,
00:44:28 I think scares me outside the numbers.
00:44:30 And he's really small.
00:44:32 That's the other thing.
00:44:33 It's like Jaden Daniels, where it's like,
00:44:34 ah, you might be 205 on a good day.
00:44:36 And that's a little scary.
00:44:38 - Yeah.
00:44:39 - So he's a little scary to me in some sense.
00:44:41 But the last thing I'll say that is different from Daniels,
00:44:44 at least in that sense, JJ McCarthy's 20 years old, dude.
00:44:47 Like he, there's at least more reasonable,
00:44:50 I can talk myself into like, okay, he can add 15 pounds.
00:44:54 He can grow a little bit.
00:44:55 With a guy like Jaden Daniels, it's like,
00:44:57 all right, you're 23.
00:44:59 We're probably closer to being maxed out here.
00:45:02 Whereas at least I can talk myself into growth at JJ.
00:45:05 - Can the touch develop?
00:45:06 'Cause I feel like it was Mike Leach or somebody
00:45:08 who was talking about like,
00:45:09 there's just so much that goes into it.
00:45:10 It's not just your arm.
00:45:12 It's like your spatial awareness and understanding
00:45:14 like when to use certain pitches, especially in a live game.
00:45:17 Like it's a very hard thing to really adjust
00:45:20 and be like, I'm throwing a completely different throw.
00:45:23 So is that something, again, 20 years old,
00:45:25 he's gonna have a long runway,
00:45:26 but is that something he can actually fix?
00:45:28 Or is it one of those things
00:45:29 where you kind of are what you are?
00:45:31 - I think it's a little bit, you are what you are.
00:45:34 And this is gonna sound weird maybe.
00:45:36 I think the issue is that he's so long levered.
00:45:39 Like his arms are so long for his frame.
00:45:41 And you see some other even good quarterbacks
00:45:44 that I think struggle with touch.
00:45:45 Jared Goff struggles with touch sometimes.
00:45:47 There are instances where Trevor Lawrence
00:45:48 for as much as I love him,
00:45:50 can struggle with touch outside the numbers at times
00:45:52 because he's this dude who is just so long levered
00:45:54 that sometimes the way that the ball comes out,
00:45:57 it's just not as fluid as you want.
00:46:00 Whereas you look at a guy like Patrick Mahomes,
00:46:03 like he doesn't have those super long arms, I don't think.
00:46:05 And it's kind of a little bit easier
00:46:07 for him to get some touch on stuff.
00:46:09 So I think that's a little bit of his issue.
00:46:11 When you combine that with being
00:46:13 not one of the taller quarterbacks,
00:46:14 I think when you're taller, it's actually easier.
00:46:16 Like if you're, obviously if you're taller,
00:46:18 you have longer arms,
00:46:19 but if it's more proportionate to your body,
00:46:21 it makes more sense.
00:46:22 But I think if you're taller,
00:46:25 it's actually a little bit easier to get touch
00:46:26 because you're kind of already higher,
00:46:29 which like if that makes sense,
00:46:30 like you're able to kind of throw down,
00:46:32 which I think helps.
00:46:35 So between that and his arm talent,
00:46:37 it's like, maybe he can add a little bit,
00:46:40 but I think he probably is gonna be like this
00:46:42 for a long time in terms of touch.
00:46:44 - Anytime I think I've even come close
00:46:46 to getting the scouting thing down,
00:46:48 I hear stuff like that,
00:46:48 where just like physiology,
00:46:50 where yeah, he's got long arms.
00:46:51 I'm like, I wouldn't even think to look at
00:46:54 or write about that.
00:46:55 That's why I have you on the show, buddy.
00:46:58 That's so cool.
00:46:59 Okay.
00:47:00 Oh yeah, no way, go ahead.
00:47:01 - I was just gonna say,
00:47:02 you watch enough gangly quarterbacks,
00:47:03 like you start to see that they look
00:47:05 a little weird sometimes.
00:47:07 - It's just something you pick up.
00:47:08 All right, now, Michael Penix Jr.,
00:47:11 someone whose stock took a crazy shift
00:47:15 between just a couple of games,
00:47:16 obviously against Texas.
00:47:18 You saw he was balling out,
00:47:19 even said after the game that he was like,
00:47:21 yeah, they were a little vanilla,
00:47:22 like they were making it pretty easy.
00:47:23 And then watching it, you're like,
00:47:25 yeah, these guys are just going in too high.
00:47:26 And not only are they just sticking
00:47:28 with what they're doing,
00:47:29 they're making mistakes.
00:47:31 And they're kind of making it a little bit easier on him.
00:47:32 Like I know there was that throw in the red zone
00:47:34 where I'm pretty sure one of the safety studies
00:47:36 in the deep half looked like he was supposed
00:47:37 to be taking the in breaker.
00:47:38 And then what do you get?
00:47:40 Michael Penix Jr. putting it on a line,
00:47:42 throwing a touchdown.
00:47:43 Then you also saw some of the deficiencies
00:47:45 where he doesn't throw a lot over the middle,
00:47:46 where you see like the funky footwork
00:47:48 and the mechanics that are kind of weird.
00:47:50 It's fine when he's throwing these dives
00:47:52 and you're like, wow, we can overcome it.
00:47:53 But then you see when pressure gets involved
00:47:55 and you're kind of behind
00:47:56 and the conditions are tougher,
00:47:58 then it starts to look really bad.
00:48:00 And obviously people went from saying,
00:48:02 oh, we might sneak into the first
00:48:04 or maybe even start to contend in the top 10 to be like,
00:48:06 yeah, no, he's probably the two guys.
00:48:08 So what are your thoughts on Penix?
00:48:10 Do you think some of the criticism
00:48:11 or the praise that he's gotten a little overblown,
00:48:14 just where is he in terms of being a prospect
00:48:16 and where you think he should be going?
00:48:19 - Yeah, to me, I don't get the first round stuff.
00:48:21 And I'll even say it before you even talk about
00:48:24 what he is as a player,
00:48:26 he's an older prospect who's already played for five seasons
00:48:28 and he's shattered his knees like three times.
00:48:31 Or I think it's two knees and a shoulder.
00:48:34 Like that's a scary, scary injury history
00:48:36 to be taking in the first round,
00:48:37 especially for a guy who's so old.
00:48:40 It was kind of my argument against Hendon Hooker last year
00:48:42 where it's like, this guy is so old and doesn't have knees.
00:48:45 At least Penix plays in like a little bit more
00:48:47 of a legitimate offense than Hendon Hooker did
00:48:49 'cause that was like my third point with Hooker
00:48:51 is that he played in the fakest offense in college football.
00:48:54 But that's already kind of my starting point with Penix.
00:48:58 But I think he has enough stuff.
00:49:00 I have a third round grade on him.
00:49:02 Like I think he's more of a guy,
00:49:04 like a lower percentage dice roll.
00:49:06 But in terms of the good, like he's pretty,
00:49:10 I mean his arm, I guess you gotta start with the arm.
00:49:13 Like he can really spin it.
00:49:14 Like he just puts a ton of RPMs on the ball.
00:49:16 He can throw it downfield pretty easily.
00:49:18 Like it's kind of just a flick for him.
00:49:20 And I think among all the passers in this class,
00:49:23 Jaden Daniels might have like a prettier in rhythm deep ball
00:49:27 but Penix can just throw the hell out of it,
00:49:29 like even further.
00:49:30 Like he can absolutely put it 70 yards
00:49:32 if he really wants to.
00:49:33 So I think that's gonna go a long way for him.
00:49:35 He's actually a better athlete than I gave him credit for.
00:49:39 Like when I watched him, especially last year
00:49:41 and then even early this year, I was like,
00:49:42 yeah, he kind of feels like a statue.
00:49:44 And I think in terms of play style he is,
00:49:46 but when he wants to get active
00:49:48 and start moving around the pocket, get outside the pocket,
00:49:50 he can do enough where it's like, okay,
00:49:52 he's probably gonna survive.
00:49:54 - Reminds me of Dak a little bit
00:49:56 with terms of his athleticism.
00:49:57 - Yes, yes, where it's like, I would say like current Dak,
00:50:01 I think younger Dak had a little bit more to him,
00:50:03 but like current Dak coming off of the injury
00:50:05 like two years ago or whatever, where it's like,
00:50:07 you're not scary, but you can do enough
00:50:09 that we can get a couple of plays on the move
00:50:12 and scrambling and stuff like that.
00:50:13 So I think that's a good comparison.
00:50:15 That's a good spot.
00:50:16 The last thing I'll say in terms of good stuff for Penix,
00:50:21 the aggression is you respect him, man.
00:50:23 Like I'll always respect the gamer dude.
00:50:25 Like he's going out there
00:50:27 and he's trying to throw the hell out of it.
00:50:28 Yeah, like he's trying to make the toughest throws
00:50:32 on the field and I respect that.
00:50:34 I respect the hell out of that.
00:50:35 And he's always willing to give his dudes chances.
00:50:37 And like sometimes, like people do this with like Andy Dalton
00:50:41 with AJ Green, where people were like,
00:50:42 oh, he just throws it up to AJ Green.
00:50:44 Yeah, dude, it's AJ Green, throw him the ball.
00:50:47 And so Penix was doing that, like, yeah,
00:50:48 you have two probably first round receivers,
00:50:51 just throw them the ball.
00:50:52 - Don't overthink it, it's okay.
00:50:54 - Don't overthink it.
00:50:55 The ball's really easy sometimes if you let it be easy.
00:50:58 And Michael Penix did sometimes.
00:51:00 And I think that was pretty admirable.
00:51:03 In terms of the stuff that scares me a little bit,
00:51:05 you already mentioned it,
00:51:06 the pressure stuff I think is the biggest one.
00:51:07 Like if he gets crowded, he just can't throw.
00:51:11 And I think a lot of that is his mechanics.
00:51:14 It's kind of twofold.
00:51:16 One, when he throws, he will kind of like drop
00:51:20 all of his weight.
00:51:21 And so it kind of naturally lowers his release platform,
00:51:25 which I think is always a little bit scary.
00:51:27 And then he has a low release to begin with.
00:51:29 Like he kind of throws almost at like shoulder level,
00:51:32 which is really bizarre.
00:51:34 And so he kind of just ends up with this low funky release,
00:51:37 where it's just kind of literally like physically hard
00:51:40 for him to get the ball up and over defenders,
00:51:42 which is like, that's always the criticism
00:51:44 with short quarterbacks, right?
00:51:45 But like he kind of makes himself a short quarterback
00:51:48 in the way that he throws.
00:51:50 And so that kind of scares me.
00:51:52 The other thing kind of related to that,
00:51:54 I think because he has such a low release,
00:51:57 it kind of makes it tough for him to get touch on the ball
00:52:00 because just the release point is so weird.
00:52:02 Like when you're throwing so low,
00:52:05 you kind of just end up like firing it right out
00:52:07 of your shoulder.
00:52:08 And it's really hard for you to like get the ball up
00:52:10 and over and put some touch on it.
00:52:12 That's why I think outside the numbers a lot,
00:52:14 like on out breaking routes,
00:52:16 he's really good if there's no receiver under,
00:52:19 there's no DB undercutting it.
00:52:20 If there's somebody undercutting it
00:52:22 and he has to play against the sideline, it's tough.
00:52:25 He probably overthrows a lot of those
00:52:26 because I think he struggles with that.
00:52:28 Even on some of the deep crossers you'll watch this year,
00:52:31 if there's a DB that can undercut it,
00:52:33 he doesn't usually have the touch to put it over the top
00:52:35 because that's just not the way
00:52:37 that he physically can throw.
00:52:40 And kind of to the point of McCarthy,
00:52:41 like I don't know if he's ever gonna be able to change that
00:52:43 because it's literally just physically
00:52:46 the way that he throws.
00:52:47 So I think it will be tough to change.
00:52:51 - Yeah, I think those are probably
00:52:52 my biggest concerns with Penix.
00:52:53 And I think they're scary concerns
00:52:55 'cause again, probably not gonna change
00:52:57 because that's just the way that he throws the ball.
00:53:00 And when that's kind of your starting point,
00:53:02 you're gonna kind of have to make up for it
00:53:06 rather than fix it.
00:53:07 And that's always tougher.
00:53:08 - With all the work the Patriots have to do,
00:53:11 I think it's pretty fair to say that he's not a great fit,
00:53:13 especially considering he kind of won somebody
00:53:16 in this new era of Patriots football
00:53:18 who you can depend on long-term.
00:53:19 With him, you see like how tough he is,
00:53:22 how resilient he is.
00:53:23 He's a great leader.
00:53:24 There are a lot of things you like as a person,
00:53:25 obviously as a player,
00:53:26 also a lot of things that scare you.
00:53:28 So probably not going to New England,
00:53:30 but it's kind of putting you on the spot.
00:53:31 Where do you think would be a good
00:53:33 or even like a perfect fit for him?
00:53:35 Because I feel like he needs a really good offensive line.
00:53:37 And there's not a lot of teams
00:53:39 that I can think of off the dome
00:53:40 who have really good offensive lines
00:53:41 and a quarterback who can't really capitalize on them.
00:53:44 - That's the thing.
00:53:46 I don't exactly know what landing spot I really would want.
00:53:51 What I will say is that the type of offense
00:53:54 I would want him to be in is something like,
00:53:58 I mean, actually I'll just put it this way,
00:54:00 a Bruce Arians offense.
00:54:01 Like you want something like the 2015 Cardinals.
00:54:03 You want something like the 2021 Bucs
00:54:07 where good offensive line play.
00:54:09 You have a receiver too
00:54:11 that you can kind of just go throw the ball up to.
00:54:13 You do a lot of stuff that is going to be attacking
00:54:15 down the field and giving him that kind of protection.
00:54:17 So I think that's the style of offense you want to get.
00:54:20 Just not sure you're going to get MVP Carson Palmer
00:54:24 or a Super Bowl winning Tom Brady.
00:54:26 - Fair enough.
00:54:28 All right, moving on to day three guy, Michael Pratt.
00:54:32 Now he's kind of an interesting one
00:54:33 'cause I feel like people for a day three prospect
00:54:36 really like him.
00:54:37 He's got a lot of the stuff
00:54:38 that you typically want in a quarterback.
00:54:39 I haven't really gotten that deep into him.
00:54:40 So I'm really curious to hear what your take is.
00:54:44 - He, to me has some of like the gamer qualities
00:54:49 that you want out of a day three prospect.
00:54:51 Like if you're going to, that's the thing on day three,
00:54:54 you're either going to want somebody
00:54:55 who just has like crazy tools and you're like dice roll,
00:54:58 let's see what happens.
00:54:59 Like, you know, he could be incredible.
00:55:02 We'll see.
00:55:03 And if he sucks, whatever, we just move on.
00:55:04 Or you want a guy who like has some ability
00:55:07 to where you're like, okay,
00:55:09 he's going to be able to withstand it
00:55:10 and make some plays in the NFL.
00:55:11 Might not ever be great,
00:55:13 but if somebody goes down, he can make some plays.
00:55:15 That I think is more the line that Michael Pratt falls into.
00:55:18 He is tough as nails, like in the pocket,
00:55:20 he's just very willing to stand in there
00:55:22 and make some throws.
00:55:23 And he's like an aggressive thrower.
00:55:24 Like he's willing to,
00:55:27 if he thinks he's got leverage to throw a post,
00:55:29 he doesn't have the greatest arm in the world,
00:55:31 but he is going to try to throw that damn post.
00:55:32 Like he is going to try to attack downfield.
00:55:35 And I think that's like a valuable,
00:55:38 a valuable trait to have
00:55:39 that he's willing to make some of those throws.
00:55:41 'Cause in the NFL,
00:55:42 like you got to have the confidence
00:55:43 to make some of those throws.
00:55:44 Even if you're not the most talented guy,
00:55:46 you got to be able to make some of those throws
00:55:48 and threaten some of those.
00:55:49 So I think he has that.
00:55:50 And then he's like a pretty good athlete.
00:55:53 You don't really want to do that much designed run stuff.
00:55:58 And it's not going to be
00:55:59 where he's scaring you that much as a scrambler,
00:56:02 but like in short yardage,
00:56:04 he could probably be useful a little bit as a design guy,
00:56:06 maybe like some quarterback power stuff.
00:56:08 And then when he scrambles,
00:56:09 he's a guy who can kind of fight for tough yardage.
00:56:12 Like he'll be able to break a tackle or two at a time.
00:56:15 He's not going to outrun anybody and gain 30 yards.
00:56:17 But again, he can make a couple of plays as a scrambler
00:56:20 where it's like Taylor Heineken
00:56:21 can go make a couple of plays.
00:56:23 You know what I mean?
00:56:24 Like he can do enough that he can keep the drive alive.
00:56:27 And I think that that's really valuable.
00:56:29 And then I would say Pratt's accuracy is,
00:56:32 again, it's not great,
00:56:33 but I think he kind of gets over the baseline of like,
00:56:35 okay, this is enough
00:56:36 for a functional backup NFL quarterback.
00:56:39 Where I struggle with him is the arm talent.
00:56:42 I think it's like below average.
00:56:45 It's not horrible.
00:56:46 It's not going to completely sink him,
00:56:48 but I think it probably limits him
00:56:49 from ever being like a good NFL passer,
00:56:53 where he's probably going to end up closer
00:56:54 into that like Heineken-ish backup,
00:56:56 where it's like, this can work, but it's not great.
00:56:59 I think you especially see that
00:57:01 when he's got to drive the ball outside the numbers.
00:57:03 To me, I think that was, you know,
00:57:04 that's kind of the theme I've had here
00:57:05 is like the marker of arm talent
00:57:07 is can you throw outside the numbers?
00:57:09 I've said that with like three guys at this point,
00:57:11 but he's one of them.
00:57:12 So I think that's a little bit of an issue I have there.
00:57:14 And then to me, some of his decision-making
00:57:17 is really bizarre.
00:57:19 Like I appreciate that he is aggressive in certain instances,
00:57:22 but there are certain instances
00:57:23 where it's almost like Daniels,
00:57:25 where I just don't understand some of the decisions
00:57:28 that he's making.
00:57:29 And with Pratt, it's different than Daniels.
00:57:31 Daniels is more just like,
00:57:32 I don't understand why you turned that down.
00:57:34 Pratt is more like, I don't understand
00:57:36 how you didn't see that guy there.
00:57:37 You know what I mean?
00:57:38 Like it's a little bit more of like the,
00:57:39 he might run you into some issues
00:57:41 because, oh, this looked open on the chalkboard,
00:57:44 you know, pre-snap, like pre-snap, it looks good.
00:57:47 He just throws it anyway.
00:57:48 And that works for him enough to like be functional,
00:57:51 but there's gonna be some really, really ugly moments
00:57:53 because of that.
00:57:54 So I think because of some of the tools that he has,
00:57:56 some of the toughness, he can be a functional backup.
00:57:59 I just don't know if he's ever gonna develop into anything
00:58:01 like super good.
00:58:03 - I feel like just from what I've heard,
00:58:05 'cause I haven't gotten a chance to watch him yet,
00:58:07 but he sounds like one of those guys where if he gets like
00:58:09 a start in a system that's already really good,
00:58:11 he can kind of make him look better.
00:58:13 People are just gonna follow him and be like,
00:58:14 oh my God, why is he not playing more, right?
00:58:17 - 100% dude.
00:58:19 - That's really funny.
00:58:20 And I mean, hey, I wouldn't mind that on the pads.
00:58:23 Like, you know, they had such a weird quarterback situation.
00:58:26 Just somebody who can get the fan base fired up.
00:58:28 I think that's fine.
00:58:29 All right, Derek, I've already taken up a lot of your time.
00:58:31 I do wanna ask you one more thing before we get out of here.
00:58:34 Senior Bowl, obviously coming up.
00:58:36 Are there any prospects to kind of jump out to you
00:58:37 that we haven't talked about yet?
00:58:38 Do you think people need to be keeping their eye on?
00:58:40 Like one I've been thinking about is Spencer Rattler.
00:58:43 I feel like there's been some buzz about him
00:58:45 and obviously had such a weird kind of career.
00:58:47 I'm not really sure where he's at now.
00:58:48 So, you know, if it's him or anybody else,
00:58:50 who should we be watching when the Senior Bowl does come up?
00:58:53 - It's definitely Rattler.
00:58:57 Because he kind of falls into the other category
00:58:59 of day three quarterback that I just talked about,
00:59:00 where it's like, he's got the tools, man.
00:59:02 Like he's, the arm talent is unbelievable.
00:59:05 At a certain point,
00:59:05 he looked like he was gonna be a first-arm quarterback.
00:59:08 Obviously some stuff kind of fell apart for him at Oklahoma
00:59:10 for whatever reason,
00:59:11 but he kind of put himself together a little bit.
00:59:14 And I think he's still inconsistent in some ways.
00:59:16 But I don't know, he's definitely the one
00:59:19 that I'm most excited to see,
00:59:22 like in the Senior Bowl environment.
00:59:23 'Cause some of the other guys I've seen,
00:59:25 it's either like, I'm not interested
00:59:27 or I kind of already have a decent feel for what they are.
00:59:30 And like, I'm probably not gonna change my opinion
00:59:31 that much on what happens here.
00:59:33 Rattler is the one where it's like, okay,
00:59:34 I think if he can have a really good week,
00:59:37 I might open my mind a little bit more.
00:59:39 - This has been so much fun.
00:59:41 I literally feel like a student, like in the best way.
00:59:44 In that one class you have where you're just like,
00:59:45 hell yeah, all right, we're going to gym.
00:59:48 This has been awesome, I appreciate you always.
00:59:51 Please let the people know where they can find you.
00:59:53 And if you got any stuff coming down the pipeline,
00:59:55 'cause you know I'll be on top of it.
00:59:57 - Yeah, you guys can find me on Twitter @QBclass.
01:00:00 On the 33rd team doing NFL stuff,
01:00:04 reception, perception, doing some quarterback charting.
01:00:07 And then obviously Bleacher Report for all my draft stuff.
01:00:09 I only do the offensive skill players,
01:00:11 but we have an incredible staff of guys
01:00:13 who do the other positions and stuff.
01:00:15 The thing I'll say is coming down the pipe
01:00:17 is my quarterback prospect charting is pretty close to,
01:00:21 I'm gonna start rolling some of the individual profiles.
01:00:24 I'm already done charting Caleb.
01:00:26 I'm like halfway done charting JJ.
01:00:27 So in the next couple of weeks, these are starting
01:00:30 to come out.
01:00:32 - I cannot wait.
01:00:33 Thank you again, buddy.
01:00:35 Thank you all for watching as always.
01:00:37 Take care of yourselves, take care of each other,
01:00:39 and we will see you next time.
01:00:41 Peace, y'all.
01:00:41 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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