Dean Skurka, CEO of WonderFi Technologies Inc., was recently interviewed by Benzinga.
WonderFi operates digital asset platforms trusted by over 1.6 million Canadians. WonderFi's Bitbuy, Coinsquare and CoinSmart cryptocurrency trading platforms provide Canadians with access to regulated cryptocurrency trading and staking. SmartPay provides cryptocurrency payment processing on a global scale.
Mr. Skurka spoke about the rapidly changing cryptocurrency landscape, especially the recent SEC news and his view on Ethereum’s future.
WonderFi operates digital asset platforms trusted by over 1.6 million Canadians. WonderFi's Bitbuy, Coinsquare and CoinSmart cryptocurrency trading platforms provide Canadians with access to regulated cryptocurrency trading and staking. SmartPay provides cryptocurrency payment processing on a global scale.
Mr. Skurka spoke about the rapidly changing cryptocurrency landscape, especially the recent SEC news and his view on Ethereum’s future.
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NewsTranscript
00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - All right, Mr. Skirka, how you doing today?
00:06 - Good, how you doing?
00:08 - I am good, thank you for joining Benzinga's All Access.
00:11 So before we hop into it,
00:13 you wanna give us just a brief overview
00:15 of what Wonderfi is and what you guys do?
00:18 - Absolutely, so Wonderfi is publicly traded
00:20 on the Toronto Stock Exchange under the ticker WNDR.
00:24 Over the last few years, we've been consolidating
00:26 the regulated cryptocurrency exchange segment in Canada.
00:29 We've acquired five of the 11
00:31 regulated crypto trading platforms in the country.
00:34 Today, we own and operate
00:36 two of the largest cryptocurrency exchanges in the country,
00:38 BitFi and Coinsquare.
00:39 And we also own and operate another subsidiary, SmartPay,
00:42 which is in the exciting vertical of crypto payments.
00:45 And all in, we have over 1.6 million
00:49 Canadian registered accounts on our platforms
00:51 with over a billion dollars of client assets on the platforms
00:54 and certainly as the crypto industry
00:56 starts to pick up some momentum here,
00:59 our company is one of the clear beneficiaries.
01:02 - Got it, so Wonderfi owns five out of the 11
01:08 regulated trading platforms in Canada.
01:11 If you've been in the crypto markets for a while,
01:13 the landscape looks a little different today
01:15 than it did maybe 10 years ago.
01:17 How important is it to use a regulated platform?
01:21 - Look, I think there are a long line of examples
01:25 of what can happen and the risks that exist
01:27 when you use non-regulated offshore crypto trading platforms.
01:31 Certainly in Canada, we've seen residents impacted
01:35 by FTX, Celsius, Voyager.
01:38 And we think it's really important as the industry evolves
01:41 that the participants understand the importance
01:44 of regulated trading platforms,
01:46 the support that they provide to Canadian participants
01:49 or participants generally in any jurisdiction.
01:52 And we think certainly as seen recently,
01:55 if you think about the last year,
01:56 as the industry has evolved and matured
01:59 from the likes of FTX and Voyager, Celsius,
02:02 these unregulated offshore platforms,
02:05 to Bitcoin ETFs, clear and concise regulation in Canada
02:09 around the crypto trading platforms that exist here,
02:12 you're really starting to see a shift
02:13 to a more structured, regulated, safe environment
02:17 for participants to interact with the digital asset economy.
02:22 And we think Wonderfi through our operating businesses,
02:25 Coinsquare and Bitbuyer are certainly doing a job
02:27 of providing that access to Canadians.
02:30 - And is that sort of concentration or centralization
02:33 healthy for the crypto market?
02:35 - Yeah, I think so.
02:37 I think generally speaking, I'll speak for Canada,
02:40 but there was certainly an abundance
02:41 of crypto trading platforms, even more so
02:45 than existed prior to the regulatory process
02:47 that played out in Canada.
02:49 We certainly think competition is healthy,
02:52 but when you think about 11 regulated
02:54 crypto trading platforms in a country the size of Canada,
02:58 certainly that lends itself to consolidation.
03:00 And we're really fortunate that Wonderfi
03:02 has been able to lead that charge.
03:04 We've consolidated, as mentioned,
03:06 five of the 11 regulated crypto trading platforms in Canada.
03:11 We have since migrated the user bases
03:14 from Coinberry, Coinsmart and Bitfo
03:17 into the Bitbuy trading platform.
03:19 So when you think about Wonderfi,
03:21 we've acquired five of 11 crypto trading platforms
03:24 that are operated in Canada.
03:26 Today we operate two.
03:28 And really from a public company perspective,
03:31 we think that that is part of the overall strategy.
03:33 How do you integrate these businesses?
03:35 How do you identify the synergies that can exist
03:38 and really run a larger, more efficient
03:41 crypto platform at scale?
03:43 - Your subsidiaries, Bitbuy, Coinsquare and SmartPay
03:48 pulled in close to $10 million in Q3.
03:52 How big of an effect did the recent acquisition
03:54 of Coinsquare have on your revenues
03:57 and what effects will it have moving forward?
04:00 - Yeah, great question.
04:01 The acquisitions of Coinsquare and Coinsmart
04:04 really did a lot for Wonderfi.
04:06 Certainly strengthened our balance sheet
04:07 from a cash and investment perspective
04:09 and also provided real scale,
04:11 which has driven the significant growth
04:13 in revenue that you mentioned.
04:15 In Q3 on a standalone basis,
04:18 Wonderfi generated $3 million of revenue.
04:20 You think about Q3, the first quarter
04:24 on a consolidated basis post-merger,
04:26 and that number has obviously gone up significantly
04:29 to 10 million.
04:30 Now you think about these businesses
04:31 and the opportunities that exist,
04:34 as markets continue to improve
04:36 and sentiment around the digital asset industry
04:39 improves as well.
04:40 Q4, we recently put out guidance
04:42 that revenues will be between 12 and a half
04:44 and $13 million.
04:45 So you're talking about a 25, 30% increase
04:49 from where things were in Q3.
04:52 And certainly if you think about Wonderfi pre-merger,
04:56 we were doing closer to $3 million of revenue a quarter.
04:59 So you're seeing meaningful growth
05:01 through the consolidation efforts.
05:02 And now we're starting to see meaningful growth
05:04 through the improving conditions
05:07 for the digital asset economy.
05:08 - Got it.
05:10 And obviously in big recent crypto news,
05:13 we had the Bitcoin spot ETF approvals
05:16 here in the United States.
05:18 Has that had any impact on Wonderfi so far?
05:21 And if not, I mean,
05:22 what do you expect going forward with this big news?
05:26 - Absolutely.
05:27 Certainly in the lead up to the ETFs,
05:29 which were last week,
05:30 there was a lot of excitement and attention
05:33 and put on the industry.
05:35 Certainly that played a large role
05:36 in the increased numbers that I mentioned in Q4,
05:40 where we saw a 25, 30% increase in revenues
05:43 compared to the prior quarter
05:45 and about a 50% increase in overall training volumes
05:49 compared to the prior quarter.
05:52 Certainly last week was a major week for the industry.
05:56 Our trading platforms responded well.
05:58 Our platform saw significant increased usage,
06:02 whether it's trading volume signups.
06:04 So we think that the overall excitement and attention
06:08 that the ETFs have created
06:10 has really reinvigorated the crypto industry
06:13 and really brought it back into people's attention.
06:16 When you think about the long-term impacts,
06:18 certainly there are natural impacts on the price of Bitcoin
06:23 as these ETFs roll out successfully.
06:27 And as AUM increases on those products,
06:30 the pressure on the price of Bitcoin
06:31 will be something to watch.
06:34 Longer term, we think about the introduction
06:39 that this creates to a whole new audience
06:41 that otherwise haven't been embracing the industry,
06:45 haven't given it the credibility that now they might
06:48 on the back of likes of BlackRock,
06:51 really building products in the space.
06:55 And so we like to think about,
06:57 from a long-term perspective,
06:59 a lot more people are getting educated
07:00 on the digital asset industry today
07:02 as a result of these ETFs.
07:05 Certainly when we think about the typical behaviors
07:07 of our users or typical behaviors we see,
07:11 people generally start by gaining exposure to Bitcoin.
07:15 And then from there,
07:16 really learning about the different assets that exist,
07:19 whether it's Ethereum or competing layer ones or layer twos,
07:22 and really going down the rabbit hole
07:24 in terms of what this ecosystem really is in aggregate,
07:27 because it is much bigger than just Bitcoin.
07:29 And so we think that this is a massive moment
07:33 that adds legitimacy and credibility to the market,
07:36 and long-term will increase the opportunity
07:40 and the addressable market significantly.
07:43 We think of ETFs as complimentary products
07:46 to what we're trying to accomplish.
07:48 ETFs have existed in the Canadian market for a long time.
07:51 And we certainly think platforms like ours play a big role
07:55 in the future direction of the industry
07:57 alongside ETFs and other products.
08:00 - Got it.
08:01 And then how about the having?
08:03 What will the effect be from the having?
08:07 What's the effect been like in the past?
08:08 And also, I mean, for some of our audience
08:10 that may not be familiar,
08:11 do you mind just, I guess, kind of describing
08:14 or explaining like I'm five,
08:16 what the having is with Bitcoin?
08:19 - Yeah, well, I'll do my best on that one.
08:21 Yeah, so I guess at a high level,
08:23 you think about Bitcoin
08:24 and how new Bitcoins are produced.
08:26 There are Bitcoin miners
08:28 that are competing to create new coins.
08:32 Every 40 years, a having event occurs
08:35 where those rewards are halved.
08:38 And so this slows down the new supply of digital assets,
08:43 excuse me, of Bitcoin,
08:44 which historically has been a positive catalyst for pricing.
08:49 We're not gonna speculate on the impact per se
08:55 in terms of the price and where things will go.
08:58 Historically, what we've seen is, again,
09:01 significantly more awareness and attention on Bitcoin
09:04 and the digital asset ecosystem
09:06 through events like the having.
09:08 I mean, through that process,
09:10 platforms like ours typically see an increase in signups,
09:14 an increase in trading volumes,
09:16 and overall activities increasing across the board,
09:19 which naturally helps our operating businesses significantly.
09:23 And so we're excited that if you think about
09:28 the calendar year, you'll have the Bitcoin ETFs,
09:32 you'll have the Bitcoin having,
09:34 there are already discussions around the Ethereum ETFs
09:37 and when those might get launched.
09:39 And we think that these positive catalysts
09:43 are very favorable for the industry as a whole,
09:46 and will certainly improve the growth opportunities
09:48 that Wonderfine's operating platforms have in front of them.
09:51 And so we're working hard at building out the improvements
09:54 we wanna see in our products,
09:56 making onboarding smoother and more seamless for users,
10:00 and looking at the additional products and services
10:02 that we can offer to our users
10:04 as the industry really comes back into focus.
10:06 And so we think 2024 represents a really big opportunity
10:11 for the digital asset economy and ecosystem.
10:15 You think about the legitimacy and credibility
10:17 that the easy ETFs are bringing to the market,
10:20 you think about that in a year that has a Bitcoin having,
10:24 and you think about a year more broadly
10:26 where the macro setup is more favorable
10:30 than it certainly had been in the prior two years.
10:32 So we think that the industry is set
10:34 for a big rebound this year,
10:36 and we think Wonderfine's right at the center of it
10:38 and is poised to have a really strong 2024.
10:41 - Yeah, it's great.
10:42 I mean, a lot of great news coming out
10:43 of the crypto space right now.
10:44 And it doesn't matter, I guess,
10:48 where you are on the spectrum of someone out there
10:49 trying to buy Bitcoin itself or buy a Bitcoin ETF,
10:53 it seems like these customers
10:55 are gonna have more options moving forward.
10:59 Give me a hot take, Dean.
11:00 Do you think ETH, Ethereum,
11:03 will ever surpass Bitcoin as the largest crypto?
11:06 And if so, what do you think that could be?
11:08 - You know, it's hard for me to truthfully speculate
11:12 on stuff like that, but I'd say they are both clearly
11:17 the leaders in this segment.
11:19 Yeah, you think about Bitcoin and the excitement
11:22 that was generated off of the back of ETF,
11:25 what that's meant for other digital assets like Solana
11:27 that's been able to increase significantly
11:30 during that same period.
11:32 And we think generally both of these tokens,
11:36 Bitcoin and Ethereum, are the natural entry point
11:40 for new participants.
11:42 I don't really have a view on whether or not
11:46 that means ETH will eventually surpass Bitcoin
11:49 in market cap.
11:50 I certainly think both play a really important role
11:53 in bringing in new participants to the market.
11:57 Bitcoin as the digital gold, as the standard,
12:00 as the household name that people will be familiar with
12:03 and comfortable with if they are going to enter the industry
12:06 or the ecosystem.
12:07 Ethereum as that evolution of, okay, what else can you do,
12:12 whether it's through smart contracts,
12:14 the implementation of DeFi protocols, NFT trading.
12:18 There's a whole world that exists through Ethereum
12:21 that doesn't exist through Bitcoin.
12:22 And I think they are very complimentary
12:25 and do a really good job at bringing in
12:27 the next wave of participants into the industry.
12:29 And then from there, it's really a rabbit hole,
12:33 whether it's competing layer ones like Avalanche and Solana,
12:37 whether it's layer twos like Arbitrum and Optimism,
12:40 there is a deep and vast ecosystem within this industry.
12:44 We certainly think Bitcoin and ETH being the household names
12:48 that they're always going to drive the adoption.
12:51 And I don't really foresee a scenario where one,
12:56 well, where one could necessarily flip the other.
13:03 I think they're both anchored
13:06 as the top two biggest cryptos by market cap.
13:09 I would expect that trend to continue moving forward.
13:12 And as mentioned, I think they both do a really,
13:15 play an important role of bringing in the next participants
13:18 into the industry.
13:19 - Got it.
13:19 Well, Dean, any other hot takes or things you're excited for
13:22 when it comes to WonderFi's plans over the next year or so?
13:27 - Yeah, look, we're in a really unique position
13:29 as the largest crypto trading platform in the country
13:32 with some of the most licenses and regulatory clarity
13:36 to support these businesses.
13:39 We're looking at products and services
13:41 that we can offer Canadians within those licensing frameworks
13:44 to continue to offer Canadians
13:47 as much of the digital asset ecosystem as we can.
13:51 And so we're really excited about the upcoming roadmap
13:53 we have for 2024.
13:55 And we're really excited to continue to offer Canadians
13:58 access to the digital asset ecosystem.
14:01 We feel really strongly about the role
14:03 that this industry will play
14:05 in financial services moving forward.
14:07 And we think that we offer Canadians a really safe
14:11 and compliant way to access the economy.
14:13 And one more hot take, I'll say Lions win the Super Bowl.
14:18 - Boom, there you go.
14:18 You see the Lions, oh, let me move the other way,
14:20 the Lions logo behind me.
14:22 I love that pic.
14:23 Well, Dean, thank you for hopping on.
14:26 Benzinga's All Access.
14:27 It's been a pleasure to learn more about WonderFi
14:30 and what's going on in the crypto world
14:31 'cause you really gotta watch it every day.
14:34 If you miss one day in the crypto world,
14:35 it seems like you missed a whole year's worth of headlines.
14:39 Dean, we'll have to have you on again sometime soon.
14:42 Anytime you guys have some big news
14:43 or things you wanna talk about,
14:45 hit my line and we'll bring you back on.
14:47 Dean, enjoy the rest of your Wednesday
14:49 and stay warm up there if possible.
14:51 - You too.
14:52 Thanks for having me and happy to come back anytime.
14:54 (upbeat music)
14:57 (upbeat music)