Find out what motivated these ex-drug abusers and traffickers to stop their drug journey and their views on the death penalty.
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00:00 It's very easy for people who are not in our circle to pass judgment because they have
00:08 never experienced what my family has been through.
00:11 Does my addiction problems affect me alone?
00:13 The answer is no.
00:15 It affects the people around me.
00:18 Hello everyone, welcome to Got People Say, a talk show where we provide a safe space
00:33 for us to have healthy discourse on contentious topics often left unspoken.
00:38 My name is Munah Bagarib and I will be your host for today.
00:42 Now in this episode, we will be delving into a very important issue.
00:45 Are Singapore's drug-related laws effective in deterring offences and is the death penalty
00:51 for drug trafficking justified?
00:54 With me today are five individuals who have had past brushes with the law due to drug-related
00:59 offences and Damian, who is from Singapore Anti-Narcotics Association, who will be sharing
01:05 his insights on Singapore's drug landscape.
01:08 Now we'll get to introductions first.
01:10 Hi I'm Bruce.
01:11 I am a recovering addict.
01:13 I've been out of prison seven years and four months and counting.
01:17 Hi I'm actually Nat.
01:19 I'm on my recovering journey for five years already.
01:22 Hi my name is Sufian.
01:23 I'm a person in recovery from substance abuse disorder and I've been clean for 12 years.
01:29 Good morning, my name is Simon and I'm a person in recovery for about three years.
01:33 Hi I'm Nicholas and I've been clean for eight years.
01:38 So as Sana, I'm a counsellor.
01:39 I work on addictions counselling for persons in recovery.
01:43 So I think everyone would like to know your story and you know how it began.
01:47 So maybe you can share about why and how it started when you first got into it.
01:52 I come from a single parent family and as such my mum was out working all the time.
01:56 13, felt bored, went out to look for my peers, joined a triad and then three months into
02:02 it, they introduced me to marijuana.
02:04 So I tried marijuana for the very first time and you know what, I loved the high.
02:10 And because I loved the high, that was the beginning of my problem that lasted 30 years.
02:15 My addiction maybe is because of my peer pressure, curiosity.
02:19 I wanted to just you know try and then after that I got addicted.
02:23 Okay for me I started to use drugs when I was in primary school and I mixed around with
02:30 friends and I thought just give it a try, just want to see how they get high and what.
02:35 And I don't realise that by using this it made me become addicted.
02:39 Nicholas, do you feel like it's something that you never thought you would be addicted
02:44 to when you first tried it?
02:46 This guy that I look up to, he is the one who introduced me to heroin.
02:51 That time I just thought that I'm you know like sick like that, normal fever and stuff.
02:57 But then he told me, "You're already sick, you're already addicted."
03:01 So after that he passed me, then I got it and after that I feel so much better.
03:05 And that's when I know that now I'm depending on this heroin to carry on the rest of my time.
03:13 I left school at 16 and movies were showing a lot of drugs.
03:17 Snorting cocaine, smoking weed, it looked so cool and we were at the age of trying it out.
03:23 So once I dive into it and it makes me feel like since I already tried this drug, why
03:28 not I just try every drug.
03:31 And I was heavily addicted to meth and phetamine.
03:34 And that was when I feel a lot of self-condemning thoughts and which leads me to suicidal thoughts.
03:40 Yeah, that's how I also want to break out of it.
03:43 Maybe you can share about how drug abuse affected your life.
03:46 To fit the addictions, you got to break a lot of hearts, especially your family members.
03:52 Because when you know money, you intend to be temperamental, you start to keep on pestering
03:57 your parents for money.
03:58 We only have one life to live.
04:00 I'm turning 54 and I started drugs when I was 13.
04:05 I delved into drugs, fell in love with it and suffered its consequences for the next 30 years.
04:11 But to think that I've wasted the best years of my life to drugs, to prison.
04:20 And these years, I cannot get them back anymore.
04:23 My life has been unmanageable.
04:25 I lost a lot of things, especially relationships with family members and trust.
04:31 There's no more trust.
04:32 I also lost the focus of my aim in life.
04:37 I didn't know how to plan my life out.
04:39 So I don't have an education, which makes it hard for me to find a job that is stable.
04:44 And I also lost two marriages due to my drug abuse.
04:48 And I literally lost my dad when he was struggling with dementia and also stroke.
04:55 I went to the hospital to visit him once and I spent the rest of my time all taking drugs at home.
05:02 This is one of my biggest regrets in life.
05:04 Back then, I didn't have the capability to take care of him.
05:07 And I also lost my daughter.
05:09 So I feel that if you ask me what drugs can affect our life, I can tell you it's literally
05:14 every single thing, not just yours, but also the people's lives around us.
05:20 So what was that moment where you decided, "Okay, I'm going to turn over a new leaf"?
05:25 I still remember when I was serving my sentence for nine years.
05:28 After five years, I think just to change the environment.
05:32 Already, you know, already chained at the same place, same hall, see same faces every day, right?
05:37 Same food, same food.
05:38 Same food.
05:39 So that's why I thought, "Okay, I try to change."
05:41 I remember that time one officer approached me and asked me,
05:44 "Spen, you never chained? Make a small chain if you can."
05:47 I said, "Okay, sir. If you want me to chain, you recommend me for a student."
05:52 I think that's my journey started.
05:53 It's surprising that I passed my exam, even I scored my max.
05:57 I never had that highest score.
06:00 Usually, I normally would get zero or one out of a hundred.
06:03 End of the year, I get 98 out of a hundred for my max.
06:06 Wow.
06:07 Really zero to a hundred.
06:09 That's why I realised, "Hey, I'm not stupid. I still can study."
06:12 That means I can do something about my life, right?
06:15 That's really interesting what you brought up because like,
06:18 when you see that you are capable, that's what motivates you.
06:21 So is that what you see really helps someone change?
06:25 I believe so.
06:26 Like in Sofian's case, he had just this one prison officer who challenged him to do a bit more.
06:32 Sometimes, it's very easy to get caught up in the flow of addiction
06:37 that you start to lose confidence in yourself.
06:39 It can be very lonely.
06:41 And so I think sometimes, all everybody needs is maybe just one person
06:45 to believe in them or to challenge them.
06:48 And that might make all the difference.
06:50 When I got released, I don't know, there's this feeling like
06:56 I just got enough of all this.
06:58 Then especially when I look into my mother,
07:00 I mean, how many times do I have to break her heart?
07:03 I only have her in this world.
07:04 But I'm blessed that I do have the support from her.
07:08 She never once gave up on me.
07:11 So I think one of my motivations is actually my mom.
07:16 You know, I have a high phobia.
07:18 So when I walk past all the high-rise buildings,
07:21 used to when my first thought came in, I feel like, "Wow, so high."
07:24 But after when I attempted suicide by drinking bleach and all the poison drinks,
07:30 after that incident, I walked past overhead bridges and all this,
07:34 I looked down, "Eh, like not high at all, no."
07:36 You cured, cured of your phobia?
07:38 Yeah, like because the suicidal thoughts were so much already,
07:42 the high phobia became lesser already.
07:45 And I knew I needed help straight away.
07:48 So I called my cell group, my church friend,
07:51 and they asked me to go to a halfway house.
07:54 What are your opinions on the consequences currently put in place
07:59 against those who consume drugs?
08:02 Drug addiction is a problem of the mind.
08:06 You know, that the person is not a criminal.
08:09 He has an addiction problem that needs to be addressed.
08:12 Let's say if I'm sick, I go and see a doctor.
08:14 Doctor diagnosed me as, I have a tummy ache,
08:17 and he prescribed Panadol.
08:19 Do you think it'll work?
08:20 It will cure me?
08:21 Definitely not, right?
08:23 So in order to help these people, give them the right prescription.
08:26 Charging them under criminal law and treating them like criminals,
08:30 I don't think this will help.
08:32 And I'm very thankful that in the past few years,
08:35 those that consume drugs,
08:37 if you get caught third, fourth, fifth, you still go to the DRC regime.
08:41 To me, it's like he mentioned, law is law.
08:43 Maybe there's a reason, maybe to keep Singapore safe,
08:48 especially our family.
08:49 Not because of us, it affects the whole family,
08:53 the whole Singaporean.
08:55 I think what Bruce said, there's an improvement in it,
08:59 especially about the rehab.
09:00 Now on the topic of consequences,
09:02 and this is also open for the floor,
09:04 what are your opinions on the death penalty
09:06 for those who traffic large quantities of drugs?
09:10 When our government, or Mr Lee Kuan Yew, started PAP,
09:15 he had to have very strict laws in place
09:20 so that Singapore can be what it is.
09:23 Can you imagine a country with drug addicts or gangsters?
09:28 You think people are going to invest in Singapore?
09:30 No way they're going to do it.
09:31 And I'm very grateful that the government is now diversifying their money
09:36 into sites of prison to help people like us,
09:40 or my peers, in their recovery journey.
09:43 Of course, implementing this death penalty,
09:45 I don't think it's really up to one opinion,
09:50 or even two to three opinions to say,
09:51 "Hey, this is right, this is wrong."
09:53 But I think we really have to look from the perspective of,
09:56 for the country and from a bigger picture,
09:59 outside the box to see what is good for our next generation.
10:03 As ex-abusers, what do you think the effect would be
10:07 if we removed the death penalty for drug traffickers?
10:11 But definitely our society will just drop.
10:14 Because basically, drugs are everywhere.
10:18 There's no level of stopping smuggling.
10:23 I think a lot of smugglers will send drugs to Singapore.
10:27 Like we know, Singapore is a small country,
10:29 and a lot of drugs come in.
10:31 Just imagine the population of Singapore who get involved in drugs.
10:37 It's very easy for people who are not in our circle to pass judgement
10:42 because they have never experienced what my family has been through.
10:46 Does my addiction problems affect me alone?
10:49 The answer is no.
10:50 It affects the people around me,
10:53 especially my immediate family.
10:56 That was my mum.
10:57 Being her child, she had dreams of grandeur for me.
11:00 I believe every parent has that for most of their life.
11:04 I lied to her.
11:05 I stole from her.
11:08 You know, once in the 90s, she had breast cancer.
11:11 She was hospitalised for it.
11:12 She actually discharged herself just to come and visit me for that 20 minutes.
11:17 Alright?
11:19 The past seven years that I've been out,
11:24 I guess, are the only seven years that my mum had of having a son.
11:34 I'm very happy that at least she had seven years of me.
11:43 Do I hate that person?
11:46 No, I don't.
11:47 But I do hate what drugs have caused us.
11:54 So am I against it?
11:55 Damn right I'm against it.
11:56 You're doing great, Brother Bruce.
11:59 We're all proud of you.
12:01 And you set a good example for a lot of us.
12:04 Based on your experience, has there been any changes in trend for drug abusers
12:09 or drug consumption pattern in Singapore over the last 10 years?
12:13 Previously, you would have a lot of people,
12:16 mainly from the lower income or lower education,
12:19 or from disjointed family groups.
12:22 The authorities had announced based on the IMH Health and Lifestyle Survey
12:28 recently to say that actually the average age of people taking up drugs is getting younger.
12:34 So there actually have also been calls to legalise so-called softer drugs,
12:38 for example, cannabis, in Singapore.
12:41 So in your opinion, what are the potential consequences
12:44 of legalising certain drugs in Singapore?
12:46 I think legalising these drugs is a challenge.
12:49 I think a lot of it comes from people believing that these drugs don't have as much of an impact
12:56 as the so-called harder drugs, like for example, cannabis, you said.
13:00 Cannabis has been shown to mental health disorders, psychotic illnesses.
13:07 So I don't think it's that straightforward.
13:10 I think this is pretty important and it should come from
13:14 all of you who have been sharing your stories.
13:16 What would you say to dissuade people
13:18 from consuming drugs?
13:20 Personally, I think that addictions started because of curiosity and stuff.
13:27 There's a better way to soothe yourself or to solve the problem that you have,
13:35 rather than any other addictions.
13:38 And if you're not careful, this life is gone already.
13:42 And you also must think about those people around you.
13:46 Those people around you, you are like a, just like an infectious toxic.
13:51 Wherever you go, everybody is affected.
13:52 The consequences that you are going to pay is not just during that moment,
13:57 but for the rest of your life.
13:59 The people that you lose, the education that you lost,
14:02 the career that you are missing out in life.
14:05 If you are going to start your life at the age of our age, you know, 30, 40, 50, it is okay,
14:11 but you're going to lose out so many things.
14:14 And to be honest, taking drugs is not cool at all.
14:17 But taking care of your family is much cooler.
14:20 So I really want to have a shout out to all the youth there.
14:23 If it's good, I'm going to tell you if it's good.
14:27 But taking drugs is really going to destroy and kill everyone,
14:31 including yourself and your family.
14:33 So say no to drugs.
14:34 Those who have not used drugs, for me it's simple.
14:37 There's a song in Hotel California, a lyric song.
14:40 It said, "You can check in anytime you like, but you can never leave."
14:42 So if you're involved in drugs, you can stop, but it's hard for you to quit when you get hooked.
14:47 We have shared just now how we struggle, right?
14:50 That's why I said we don't need drugs to be happy.
14:52 Don't need drugs to be someone.
14:54 We don't need drugs to be successful.
14:56 Even we can just be ourselves.
14:59 Take off the mask, just be yourself.
15:02 And for those who are still struggling, let hope not hurt shape our future.
15:10 Drug is just temporary.
15:12 At the end of the day, we'll just get addicted.
15:13 But we are over here all is because we care.
15:16 And we don't want the youth to be like us.
15:19 Like whatever that we went through, all the heartbreaks, all the pains.
15:23 I would advise to the youth, think about the consequences.
15:29 Those teenagers out there who are curious about drugs and the effect of drugs,
15:34 everyone that I've met in prison who is serving a sentence for drugs or drug-related offences,
15:41 all of them, all of them, all started out this way.
15:43 "I just want to try drugs, see how.
15:46 No, I'm not going to get addicted to it.
15:47 I just want to try, see how it's like.
15:49 Then I know the higher that I stop."
15:50 People always think that they can win the battle with drugs.
15:55 But the truth is, you always lose.
15:58 You always lose.
16:00 All right, thank you so much everyone for being so open and honest with sharing your story
16:05 and just having a conversation and creating this safe space.
16:09 So I want to know, lastly, before I let you all go, what are you guys up to these days?
16:14 I'm in media, social media, creating content, trying to earn some money, you know, kind of thingy.
16:21 But I'm more into volunteer work.
16:26 You know, I love my volunteer work.
16:28 That is my life's mission.
16:30 I do have a full-time job now and I'm also a peer leader in SANA.
16:34 I'm going for some mentoring courses to help the youth.
16:40 Okay, as for me, I'm working at NAMS as a peer support specialist.
16:43 I thought I would continue my study, further my study because in recovery,
16:48 what I learned is that never stop learning because life never stops teaching.
16:52 That's what I learned.
16:54 You want to get 100 for maths, right?
16:56 Want to get 100.
16:57 My T8 not happy.
16:58 You want to get 100.
16:59 Okay, that's for me.
17:02 Thank you, that's inspiring.
17:04 Simon?
17:05 For me, I'm doing content and I just recently started my own production.
17:11 Can I shout out?
17:13 Shout out lah.
17:13 Peace Free Production.
17:16 So I'm mainly doing skits and stuff but I also hope to move into a segment where I can give back to society.
17:24 And I'm also a SANA peer leader and I also...
17:27 Yes, correct.
17:27 Then I'm a full-time son.
17:31 I want to take good care of my mother and of course live life without regrets anymore.
17:36 I have a full-time job and I do own my own company under a design industry.
17:44 And also on my free time, if I can, I do a bit of volunteer.
17:48 That's wonderful, that's lovely.
17:50 Thank you so much for sharing and thank you again for joining us.
17:54 I want to know what Munah is doing also.
17:56 You know, it's a manners for the host.
17:59 We would love to know.
18:01 So Munah, may I know what are you doing currently?
18:05 I'm hosting this series on Asia One.
18:08 After this?
18:08 Okay.
18:10 I have no more questions.
18:13 Suddenly on the spot, I cannot answer.
18:16 I'm the one asking the questions here.
18:19 All right, but then again, thank you very much.
18:22 Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Got People Say.
18:28 And thank you all for joining us and watching this insightful discussion
18:33 about drug-related offences in Singapore.
18:35 We've of course heard different perspectives, spoken candidly about their experiences
18:39 and discussed the effectiveness of death penalty for drug-related offences.
18:44 Now in today's day and age where information and misinformation
18:48 are gathered so easily from online platforms,
18:50 it's always important to hear opinions from different sides of the story as we've done today.
18:55 So I hope this episode has helped you shape your thoughts on the issues at hand
18:59 and help you form your own opinion on this very conflicting conversation.
19:04 Now, what do you think?
19:06 Is the death penalty for drug trafficking justified for the betterment of the community?
19:10 Let us know and stay tuned for the next episode of Got People Say.
19:14 Bye guys.
19:15 Bye.
19:17 [Music]