Metro Manila Film Festival Best Director awardee for the film “Gomburza,” Pepe Diokno, shares his surprise at how a serious movie about history has drawn mainstream audiences.
He talks to Howie about researching how the idea of a Filipino nation was born and how faithfully his movie tries to portray history.
They discuss the challenge of dramatizing historical events without battlefield heroes and the need to set the record straight about what happened in the 1872 Cavite Mutiny which led to the martyrdom of the three priests Gomes, Burgos and Zamora. The executions inspired Jose Rizal’s life work.
Pepe addresses the Majoha reality-show brouhaha sympathetically and what it says about the way history is taught. Howie asks him how coming from the illustrious Diokno family influences his choice of subject.
“Gomburza” is the 36-year-old Pepe’s first film in eight years, after a period of self-doubt about his career. Audience response in recent weeks seems to have restored his faith.
He talks to Howie about researching how the idea of a Filipino nation was born and how faithfully his movie tries to portray history.
They discuss the challenge of dramatizing historical events without battlefield heroes and the need to set the record straight about what happened in the 1872 Cavite Mutiny which led to the martyrdom of the three priests Gomes, Burgos and Zamora. The executions inspired Jose Rizal’s life work.
Pepe addresses the Majoha reality-show brouhaha sympathetically and what it says about the way history is taught. Howie asks him how coming from the illustrious Diokno family influences his choice of subject.
“Gomburza” is the 36-year-old Pepe’s first film in eight years, after a period of self-doubt about his career. Audience response in recent weeks seems to have restored his faith.
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NewsTranscript
00:00 Magandang Araw, podmates! Our guest today is Pepe Diokno,
00:04 the director of the powerful historical film "Kumpursa,"
00:07 which won a slew of awards at the Metro Manila Film Festival
00:10 over this holiday season and made many of us think about history.
00:14 Pepe was named Best Director in the Film Festival.
00:18 Magandang Araw, Pepe, and congratulations!
00:21 Thank you so much, Howie. Magandang Araw.
00:23 And hello to everybody listening.
00:25 It's a real honor to be here with you, Howie, honestly.
00:27 Thank you.
00:28 Thank you for making the time, Pepe.
00:30 You've been so busy, no?
00:31 How's it been, no?
00:33 Being kind of the toast of Philippine cinema in the last few weeks.
00:39 Kumusta yung buhay mo in the last few weeks?
00:42 It's been just so surreal, honestly.
00:48 'Cause coming from, you know, the start of the festival,
00:51 I was feeling very anxious.
00:53 I wasn't so sure how our film was going to do.
00:56 I think when the number of cinemas came out,
00:58 you were on the lower end of the spectrum along with "Firefly."
01:01 And congratulations, guys, for "Firefly" as well.
01:03 Great film.
01:04 But then, when the first two days of the festival,
01:09 we would already hear stories of screenings being sold out,
01:12 people really responding to the film.
01:14 That just, first of all, took me by surprise.
01:18 I was hoping for it, but, you know,
01:19 very anxious and not expecting it also.
01:24 And then it's just sort of snowballed from there.
01:26 From 39 cinemas, we went up to 130.
01:30 And just hearing the audience reaction,
01:36 we've been going around different cinemas,
01:38 doing Q&As afterwards,
01:40 really helping people also process the emotions after the film.
01:45 But it's a good feeling.
01:47 I like it.
01:49 I haven't been able to connect with an audience like this before.
01:52 Okay.
01:53 So with "Kumbursa" and with "Firefly,"
01:55 people really clamored for the film.
01:58 They were calling up,
01:59 they were asking for screenings.
02:02 And then that's when the cinema started to realize
02:06 that they, I think, need to show these films.
02:09 Okay.
02:10 You were surprised, right?
02:11 That this kind of reaction happened.
02:14 You said that there's a big demand for your time
02:16 because it has a cinema-like feel.
02:20 Although this is a commercial film festival,
02:24 it's meant to earn money.
02:26 Why are you surprised?
02:30 Many factors.
02:36 MMFF, as you mentioned,
02:41 is meant to be a commercial festival.
02:43 So there was an assumption before
02:46 that all the films in MMFF
02:48 should cater to the whole family.
02:50 Which is why you tend to have
02:52 three more entertaining fantasy
02:55 or more genre fair that could fit all ages.
02:58 And our film, as you mentioned,
03:00 this is more serious.
03:01 I would say, "Pagka-intellectual."
03:04 And we don't have those fantasy elements that we're used to.
03:10 And then coupled with that is,
03:11 Cedric, one, is a great actor.
03:15 But this is his first lead role as well.
03:18 And he doesn't have that household name recalled yet.
03:22 But I think he will definitely after this film.
03:25 So there were these many factors.
03:27 And we were all really so anxious
03:29 about getting into MMFF at first
03:30 because of these things.
03:32 But we really wanted to get into MMFF
03:36 because we wanted to reach the widest audience possible.
03:40 And in our industry, over the last two years
03:43 of the pandemic, three years actually,
03:45 there was really a slump.
03:48 And it's hard for us to compete with Hollywood as always,
03:51 compete with bigger films, international films.
03:55 And MMFF is really the only opportunity
03:58 for Filipino films where we have that protection
04:01 that our government gives us.
04:03 They put us in cinemas and audiences know
04:06 that when they go to the movie houses,
04:08 it's all Filipino movies that they will see.
04:10 So it's a big opportunity, I think, for producers.
04:12 And we really wanted to be part of that.
04:14 But we were not expecting that audiences would come back
04:19 actually to cinemas.
04:21 And of course, not expecting this reaction to the film.
04:25 - So what are the factors behind that?
04:28 Because the run of MMFF extended.
04:32 The theaters increased, as you mentioned.
04:35 People are going better after being away.
04:39 You said there was a slump.
04:40 We had a pandemic.
04:42 And all of a sudden, it's like a comeback.
04:45 Which as you said, you were surprised.
04:48 It surprised many people.
04:50 - I have been thinking about it, but all I have a few weeks.
04:52 I think we really need to study from a data perspective
04:58 the turnout this year.
05:04 I'm very happy about the box office this year,
05:07 which I just heard surpassed 1 billion.
05:12 But I think we need to factor in the prices of the tickets.
05:17 And we need to see how many admissions actually that had.
05:21 Because I think as an industry, what we need to promote
05:27 is just to get more people to the cinemas again.
05:29 To get more admissions rather than just box office.
05:33 We need more people, more Filipinos to see Filipino films.
05:35 And we need, sorry, we need to grow that.
05:41 So yeah, apart from looking at admissions and seeing if this
05:48 if this is a good thing,
05:51 and definitely compared to the last two years, it was.
05:53 Yeah, I was thinking about why audiences are back.
06:00 I think first and foremost, it's the selection of the films.
06:06 There, I think the MMFF did a good job in selecting this crop.
06:15 And it was an honor to be part of the 10.
06:18 I would also say, I think that the actors are so involved this year.
06:27 Because we were supposed to shoot this in 2020, 2021.
06:32 It was supposed to be released in 2021 as a tribute to the 500 years of the church
06:39 in the Philippines.
06:40 But the project got put on hold.
06:42 And over the pandemic, we had lost loved ones, we lost co-workers.
06:47 And I think when the film was restarted, when Jessica decided to do the film again,
06:53 it became a lifeline for so many of us.
06:55 This film, Gumburza, was an opportunity to work again, to have livelihood,
06:59 but also an opportunity to do what we love.
07:01 And an opportunity to create something bigger than ourselves.
07:06 So we really, I saw how everybody poured their heart and soul into it,
07:09 because it was that lifeline.
07:10 It shows you that everybody, I think so many people in the industry
07:13 were just so happy to get back to work.
07:16 So happy after two years of a pandemic, just so happy to do what we love again.
07:21 There's so much passion.
07:24 And so I think in the release of the films, the casts have been so generous with their time.
07:30 You have Ding Dong and Marianne, for example, going also to the cinemas,
07:35 meeting with audiences again.
07:37 We have our cast in Gumburza after the screenings doing Q&As,
07:41 which makes, I think, which made MMFF more of an event.
07:45 It's strange, but I was telling you a while ago,
07:52 I have the same feeling as a cinema liar.
07:54 Now you see audiences excited to watch Filipino films again,
07:57 excited to be part of this event that was MMFF, that is MMFF.
08:01 So I think that's it.
08:03 All of those things came together, I think, coupled also with the fact that
08:07 the makeup of the industry is different now in terms of,
08:15 there was a big shakeup in our industry.
08:18 And now the actors have more stakes in the films that they create,
08:24 as well as the directors.
08:26 And so that also did help them promote it even more, the films that they made.
08:30 So I think all of that came together,
08:32 and I'm just glad that audiences are responding as well.
08:34 But there, so I also do want to mention that
08:38 because ticket prices are so high now, honestly, I think they're quite high.
08:42 It also sort of maybe changed the makeup of who we think our movie-going audience is.
08:49 I think the people who can afford tickets to the movie houses
08:54 are people who are also exposed to cinema from all over the world.
08:59 And during the pandemic, we were all watching streaming,
09:02 we were all watching films on the internet.
09:04 We had all been exposed to Korean, we had all been exposed to Hollywood,
09:08 even films from other countries.
09:10 The mom of my partner over the pandemic had discovered Turkish TV series,
09:18 but very well-made Turkish TV series, for example.
09:20 So we were all exposed to world cinema.
09:22 But imagine during the pandemic, so many people had that exposure.
09:26 And I think that changed also the tastes,
09:28 changed the expectations of moviegoers.
09:33 And it just so happened that the crop, I think, of films this year
09:36 met those tastes and expectations.
09:40 We need to see what happened this year, I think, and learn from it.
09:42 Okay, so why the topic of Gomburza, the three priest martyrs of 1872?
09:50 And how did you end up directing it?
09:53 Well, as I mentioned, this was an idea of Jescom
10:00 in order to celebrate the 500 years of the church in the Philippines.
10:03 And I think what I found valuable is,
10:08 talking about the church in the Philippines,
10:11 we all know our history, cross and sword, for example,
10:14 where religion was used to colonize the Philippines.
10:19 I think this was making the point that religion also became a tool
10:24 for us to discover our national identity.
10:27 Because we had been given, in the secularization movement,
10:30 the power to wear these cassocks and minister the parishes
10:37 that also empowered Filipinos and made us believe
10:42 that we could be just as human or have the same rights as Spanish people.
10:52 That's where it started.
10:54 So I think that it was making that point.
10:56 But also, when I came into the project,
10:57 I was also asking myself, what is all this hullabaloo about?
11:00 Historical film, usually big, bombastic, larger-than-life figures at times of war.
11:06 That's what they're usually about.
11:08 Stories are often told about figures like that.
11:11 And as I read more and more about the three priests,
11:14 the more I realized that this story is a story
11:19 not about individual heroism but of the collective.
11:21 It's a story not about battle but of sacrifice.
11:25 And I think these values are Filipino values
11:28 that Rizal and the Katipunan had found so important.
11:33 And that's what resonated with them.
11:35 And I think that's what continues to resonate today.
11:37 You mentioned Jezcom as the producers of the film.
11:41 Jezcom is short for Jesuit Communications.
11:45 I think they produce films and they're connected to Ateneo University, right?
11:55 Yes. They produced Ignacio de Loyola previously.
11:59 So this is their second feature film.
12:01 And then they do series, a lot of online content as well.
12:07 Oh, okay.
12:08 Also, the Jesuits, of course, are a religious order.
12:11 And we know from our own history, Rizal's novels,
12:17 religious orders have also been criticized, attacked,
12:24 for what they did in the Philippines.
12:26 Jesuits, of course, are only one religious order.
12:29 The other prominent ones are the Agustinians, the Dominicans, the Recollects, etc.
12:36 So some skeptics can't help but think out loud about that connection
12:44 and speculate that this is part of an effort by the Church,
12:52 by the Jesuits maybe in particular, to improve the image of the Church in our history
13:00 and present another side.
13:03 What's your response to that?
13:06 Oh, it's a valid critique, a valid discussion to have, definitely.
13:10 But at the same time, we have also gotten reactions from some religious orders
13:19 saying that they're angered by their portrayal in the film.
13:24 For me personally, as a filmmaker, I was not, never dictated upon by the Jesuits or the Church
13:35 about what to show.
13:36 There are things actually in the film that when I began, even I had to ask,
13:42 "Is this okay that we do this?"
13:45 Because we need to, for example, the fact that Zamora, Father Zamora, was a gambler.
13:51 And then we show also a friar gambling with him.
13:54 It's a little testy, but it's based on the truth.
13:59 And the response that I got was, "We'll show it because it's true.
14:02 It's based on history."
14:04 There's a scene in the film, I think, which is where a lot of the discussion comes from,
14:09 where we have a friar who says at the end of it all, that they were used and that history
14:18 will hate us friars and not the Squerido, the Governor General, and not Spain.
14:24 I think that's actually also one of my favorite scenes.
14:32 But what I do have to say about that scene is that I don't think it's meant to absolve
14:36 the friars for what they've done.
14:40 And earlier on in the film, we talk a lot about accesses to the friars.
14:44 There are lines about how they grabbed land.
14:48 There are lines and scenes about how conservative they were, how they refused to teach Spanish
14:57 to the locals and how the friars are in the film.
15:03 It said that they were the cause of why there's so little progress in the Philippines.
15:07 So it wasn't meant to absolve all that.
15:10 What it was meant to show was that in the situation of Gomburza and the three priests,
15:16 why is it that so many Filipinos have not heard about the Squerido, for example, yet?
15:22 I think it's a valid thing to say that the friars do tend to take heed
15:26 and not the policies of the government, which were very anti-Filipino in the sense
15:34 of Filipinos who were people who were born here.
15:36 We had less rights just because we were born here.
15:39 And I don't think necessarily just because of the friars,
15:42 it's also because of the policies of the government back then.
15:45 So, okay, that begs the question, how much of this is based on what really happened?
15:55 You said it's based on the truth, that particular incident that you mentioned with the friar.
16:01 There are a lot of details in this, and then there's been nitpicking,
16:06 there's been some debate, discussion.
16:08 How faithful is it and to what extent were you obliged to be accurate in your portrayals?
16:17 It is a work of drama based on historical records.
16:23 But I think at the core of it is that we needed to, at its heart, present, I think,
16:32 our view of what happened and our view of what history was.
16:36 I think one of the first challenges that we had, really,
16:41 was that there are so many conflicting records and texts about Burgos,
16:47 so many conflicting records and texts about the Cavite mutiny,
16:51 and about Esquerdo, for example.
16:56 So, some historians will tell you that Burgos wrote the Manifesto of Los Filipinos.
17:02 Other historians will say he didn't.
17:03 Some historians will tell you that the Cavite mutiny was just an uprising,
17:15 not even an uprising, but just a protest of soldiers who were unhappy with the polities of Esquerdo.
17:26 Others will tell you that, no, it was actually a proto-revolutionary uprising
17:30 in order to get rid of the control of Spain.
17:34 That particular point, I wanted to ask you also about,
17:38 is there really a connection between the three priests in the Cavite mutiny, in your opinion?
17:44 Throughout all these conflicting records and conflicting historical texts,
17:47 we made the decision very early on to focus on the writings of Father Schumacher,
17:54 one of our foremost historians, also Jesuit, taught at Ateneo.
17:59 He had written a text called Cavite Mutiny Toward a Definitive History,
18:04 and that's what we defaulted towards.
18:07 So, in that, he said that the priests did not have a direct involvement in the Cavite mutiny,
18:12 that there was the grumblings of the soldiers,
18:19 that they were thinking already about ending the control,
18:23 and that they were helped monetarily by these Criollos,
18:27 and that they laid out their plans in this text.
18:32 So, that's a text that we defaulted to, and that informed the script, basically.
18:38 So, yeah, we sort of had to make that call early on,
18:42 because when you make a film, it has to, I think, present a story that's clear.
18:47 We did have earlier drafts where all of those different competing narratives were explored,
18:55 but then for me, it lacked an emotional borough, it lacked an emotional line.
19:02 So, I made a decision very early on, okay, we're sticking with Schumacher,
19:06 and we're presenting this view of history.
19:09 The line was, "Ginamit lang yung Cavite mutiny" as a reason to arrest these three priests,
19:19 to kind of eliminate them as threats to the Spanish regime.
19:26 The context of all that was because, and it says in the opening lines of the film,
19:30 Opening Supers, that in Mexico, the revolution was led by a priest, Father Morelos,
19:36 and I think that was the thinking behind "Esquerdo",
19:39 and that's the reason why "Napag-initan yung tatlo".
19:44 Yeah, yeah.
19:46 Well, one interesting aspect of your film was the way it began with "Ermano Kule",
19:53 which you show in the beginning of the film.
19:57 He wanted to become a priest, but was prevented from doing so because he was an Indio.
20:03 So, he set up his own religious movement that rebelled, and then they ended up being massacred.
20:09 So, you connected the dots from "Ermano Kule" to Pilaes, to Burgos, to later on, Pesciano Mercado,
20:20 and then, of course, Jose Rizal.
20:22 Was that also the Schumacher thesis, or how much liberty did you take with that?
20:30 I mean, going all the way back to "Ermano Kule" as kind of the precursor,
20:37 or like a predecessor of Gomburza and Pilaes.
20:41 I was talking to Roddy Vera about this.
20:45 The decision to start with "Pule", I think, was an idea of Roddy.
20:52 And Roddy, apart from Schumacher, Roddy had also consulted the works of other historians,
21:01 like Fidel Villareal, Luciano Santiago, Carlos Quirino.
21:04 But, so yeah, I think that's sort of where it came from, as well as Schumacher.
21:11 For me, reading Schumacher, the line from Pilaes to Burgos to Pesciano to Rizal was very clear.
21:21 And actually, Rizal did dedicate "El Fili" to the three priests.
21:26 There in the introduction, there is a cover of "El Fili",
21:31 although I think this is second or third edition, where you see the three priests already.
21:35 This is actually in early 1900s.
21:37 But there is that visual link.
21:41 And then, in letters that Rizal had written to friends, he had actually said that,
21:48 "If it were not for the three priests, I probably would not have written my novels.
21:53 I would probably be a Jesuit friar," he said.
21:56 And then another letter, he had said that Gumburza, or Burgos specifically,
22:02 had taught me concepts of justice, for example.
22:06 So that line was very clear.
22:08 And then added to the fact that "La Catipunan" was inspired by Gumburza as well.
22:17 They'd actually, we say it in the film, used pieces of black cloth to...
22:24 Anting-anting, actually.
22:26 >> JOEY: So Gumburza became a password in "La Catipunan."
22:31 >> KLAUS: Yeah.
22:32 For me, that was a risk early on.
22:36 When I first came into the project and we were reading more about history,
22:41 I had really gravitated towards this story that was not just about the three priests,
22:46 but about how this little fire had spread throughout society and became the revolution that we had.
22:53 I was so fixated by the fact that the term Filipino, to refer to us as a people,
23:03 had actually started with the native priests.
23:07 Actually, Pelaes had a publication called...
23:12 >> JOEY: "Catholic of Filipino."
23:17 >> KLAUS: "Catholic of Filipino," yeah.
23:18 So he had actually used it in the publication.
23:22 So that term started with the priests, and it really was only meant to refer to them,
23:25 native Philippine-born priests.
23:28 But then eventually, it started to catch on other sectors of society.
23:32 The Criollos, the Mestizos had adopted it until it became adopted by us as a nation.
23:40 Although I know when the Philippines was founded,
23:44 even that was a question, whether we should call ourselves Filipino,
23:47 whether the Philippines is even a name that we need to call our country.
23:52 And that's, I think, another discussion that we should have all together.
23:54 That was a little fire that began in the church, began with the priests, and it spread.
24:01 >> JOEY: Maybe others are also wondering about this detail in your story.
24:07 The Ketchup Eusebio character, the one who implicated Gumburza.
24:14 >> KLAUS: Saldúa, Francisco Saldúa.
24:15 Actually, the fourth was executed.
24:17 >> JOEY: Tama, tama.
24:18 Tama, and he was... yeah, Saldúa.
24:20 Correct, correct.
24:20 Was he ordered by the Spanish to implicate the priests, or what?
24:28 Ani yung motivation nya dun?
24:30 >> KLAUS: Well, in the historical records, it said that he did testify against the three priests.
24:39 I mentioned one of the Q&As that we did.
24:42 The actual records of the trial have not been found.
24:46 Many have been trying over the years to find them.
24:50 We even tried in the military archives in Spain, because it just so happened that my aunt,
24:58 Maris Jokno, who used to head the historical commission,
25:01 she was there when we were doing preparations, and I begged her to try,
25:05 but really, it hasn't been found.
25:06 But yeah, according to the testimonies that we have,
25:11 and even Schumacher says that Saldúa testified against the three priests.
25:15 But I will say we did have a departure with Saldúa, and two departures, actually,
25:23 that I want to discuss.
25:27 One was Saldúa, and then another having to do with Burgos.
25:30 The first thing about Saldúa is, according to records, when it was his turn to be executed,
25:37 he apparently, allegedly, went up on stage and was so smug about it, he was smiling.
25:44 He was confident until the very last moment that he would be pardoned.
25:51 And when me and our key staff in the team had discussed this,
25:58 we felt that that wasn't right for the story that we were trying to tell.
26:04 We needed to give Saldúa a motivation to turn against the three priests,
26:11 three priests who he knew were innocent.
26:13 And projecting it, I think, to who we are today, we were thinking about what would motivate
26:19 somebody to be a traitor, what would motivate somebody to implicate someone that they know
26:25 is innocent.
26:26 And there are some reasons, maybe to protect the family, maybe for money.
26:29 And so for Saldúa, we had been a little bit more sympathetic and said maybe he did it
26:34 to protect his family.
26:35 And that's what grounded his character as portrayed in the film.
26:39 Ketchup had portrayed this character who is not necessarily part of that rich Criollo
26:45 circle, but maybe wanting to be.
26:47 Somebody who was given this opportunity, maybe to be part of it, and then was ultimately
26:53 the fall guy.
26:54 And he was for me, a fall guy.
26:57 He was executed while the people who had allegedly funded this thing were given exile.
27:08 So that's one departure I want to discuss.
27:13 The other having to do with the execution is Burgos.
27:17 By the way, the last words of Gómez and Burgos in the film are their actual last words based
27:22 on historical records.
27:23 So Gómez had really said, "Walang dahon, sa puno ang pwede lumipad kung hindi kahilingan
27:29 ng Diyos."
27:30 Very poetic.
27:31 And that informed this characterization of somebody being very stoic, somebody who had
27:35 accepted his fate.
27:36 With Burgos, he said, "Wala kami kasalanan.
27:41 Bakit kami kailangan mamatay ng ganito?
27:44 Wala bang justisya sa mundo?"
27:46 And historical accounts had said that he delivered it weeping, pitiful, crying.
27:51 And for me, story-wise, I don't think it would have been a satisfying ending because it goes
28:00 against what we know about him.
28:02 We know that he was a firebrand.
28:04 We know he was intelligent.
28:06 We know that he was standing up for their rights.
28:08 Why would he, at the last moments of his life, revert to this cowardice that they say, something
28:15 so undignified, it didn't seem right from a character perspective?
28:18 And then when we started to ask, "Okay, what did he say?
28:21 Wala kami kasalanan," we asked ourselves, "Isn't that something that's dignified?
28:27 Isn't that something that's defiant?
28:29 Isn't that the most dignified thing you can do when faced with a wrongful execution is
28:35 to proclaim your innocence?
28:37 And isn't that, when he proclaimed his innocence, isn't that what energized the crowd?
28:42 Isn't that what the crowd saw?
28:44 This innocent person getting killed.
28:46 We are familiar with this injustice.
28:49 We know that injustice and that united everybody to say, "We're all Filipino just like him."
28:54 So in the film, we wanted to give this dignified, "Wala kami kasalanan" delivery for Burgos.
29:02 And I think that's really what we were trying to present, that even if these three priests
29:09 were killed tragically, wrongfully, but the fire that they had didn't die.
29:16 And because the fire had spread throughout the people who were there and throughout the
29:21 people who had heard about this story, then ultimately it gave birth to our country.
29:28 So it wasn't a complete and total loss.
29:30 It wasn't a complete and total tragedy.
29:32 What I'm going to say today is a different discussion, but yeah.
29:37 Yeah, well, one intriguing presence in the different scenes in Gumburza, the Indian character
29:47 with long hair, you see him being the servant of the Peninsular priests, and then he makes
29:56 appearances here and there, and then he's there in the execution scene, and eventually
30:02 you show him being one of the revolutionaries.
30:05 I guess he's meant to represent this whole Indian population.
30:12 I'm sure they had Indian servants in the convents and serving the priests.
30:17 You didn't have to invent that.
30:19 But that kind of character, you showed this gradual conscientization, politicization,
30:27 or it became political, the way the priests used to observe their behaviors.
30:36 What thoughts went into that character?
30:40 It's a dramatic device.
30:43 It's a story device, the character.
30:45 But it was coming from the thought that early on in the film, we see a very fractured society.
30:57 There's a difference between those born in Spain and those who were born here.
31:01 There's a difference between classes, the Indios that we see who are servants and the
31:07 richer, more elite.
31:08 And then there's one scene where a servant is asked if he considers himself Filipino,
31:13 and he says, "No, I'm Tagalog."
31:15 So we were not a nation in the sense at the time.
31:19 But when the priests were killed, everybody had begun to see themselves in these three
31:25 priests.
31:26 Actually, some historians have also said, although I don't necessarily agree with this,
31:29 one historian said that there was no Philippine history before 1872, the year that Cumburza
31:34 was killed.
31:34 I don't agree with that.
31:35 But many historians would point to that event as an event that unified us and maybe all
31:42 of us said, "Oh, we're just like them.
31:43 We are Filipino as well."
31:44 But it wasn't just the elite who said that.
31:51 It was everyone, even the Indios.
31:52 And I think every day, Filipinos of all classes had come together in that scene.
32:00 So we needed that representation.
32:02 And so we were very intentional about planting this early on.
32:08 And I think that it also reflects what the structure of the film is, in a sense that
32:14 it shows this little fire that grows, that becomes bigger and bigger and bigger.
32:19 So if you make that a parallel visually, it shows characters who were in the background,
32:25 who seemingly have no significance, coming more and more into the foreground until they
32:29 have an impact at the end.
32:30 Just to refresh, there was this TV reality show where there were some young artistas
32:37 or artista wannabes who made the mistake of referring to Cumburza as "majoha" instead.
32:44 You know, they basically just got a little bit of their history confused.
32:49 Well, actually, when that happened, "majoha," we were already preparing for the film.
32:54 So we had a group chat.
32:55 And as soon as that came out, somebody had already sent in our group chat a poster that
33:00 said "majoha."
33:00 But the thing is, if you think about it, they were not wrong.
33:04 Because Mariano Gomez, "ma-jo," or I'll say "Burgos," "ha-asito-zamora," they had just
33:11 put together the first names and not the last names.
33:14 And for me, what that made me realize is I'm not different.
33:19 Most of us are not different from them.
33:21 Because maybe we know their names.
33:23 Maybe we know how they died, that they died by garote.
33:27 But actually, even I came in not knowing much other than that.
33:31 The fact, you know, not just details, like for example, that Gomez was much older than
33:38 the other two, or details like there was a Pantepero Pedaes who had mentored "Burgos,"
33:42 or details like Zamora, for example, was really just at the wrong place at the wrong time
33:47 during his arrest.
33:48 But more of the bigger picture, like the fact that this idea of a national consciousness
33:56 began with the secularization movement.
33:58 So for me, it was more of a challenge in order to deepen and just explore that part of our
34:08 history even more.
34:10 So yeah, I don't want to laugh about it also, because I think it just made me realize, "Napa'unga,
34:17 how come when we learn history in school, it's really just enumeration of names and
34:22 dates and stuff?
34:22 Isn't that not how we're supposed to teach history?"
34:28 Isn't it more about the context and the meaning of what these events can mean to us?
34:35 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:38 And of course, the word "story" is part of the word "history," right?
34:44 I mean, history is much more than names and dates.
34:47 You said it, it's really a story, which is basically what your movie is.
34:50 It's a very powerful story, and that's really what's going to be embedded in people's heads
34:57 rather than acronyms and those little details that make up the story.
35:02 Yeah, yeah.
35:04 When we were doing "Post," I was also going back to school, I attended the workshop in
35:10 Italy.
35:11 I was in Torino, and this is the original capital of Italy.
35:16 This is where the ruling family had come from before Italy was unified.
35:20 The workshop organizers were giving us a tour.
35:22 She was talking about, "Oh, this is my favorite historical figure.
35:27 His name is Camillo Cavour."
35:29 And she gave us a quote.
35:31 He said once, "Okay, we've unified Italy, we made Italy.
35:35 Now it's time to make Italians."
35:37 And I realized that nationhood, our identity is something that's constructed.
35:45 It's not something that's just given to us and then it's okay.
35:49 No, it's actually an ongoing project.
35:51 It's something intentional.
35:52 So I don't think, I'm not sure how it affected the film, but I always ask myself, "How do
35:58 we create Filipinos?
36:00 How do we participate in this project of nation building today?
36:06 What are the stories that we tell each other?
36:08 What are the ideas that we exchange that makes us who we are?"
36:12 Just food for thought.
36:14 I want to tell our listeners and viewers, or maybe remind because maybe many of them
36:20 already know, that you're not coming from nowhere.
36:23 I mean, you're the son of Chiel Diokno, who was a human rights lawyer, ran for the Senate.
36:30 You're the grandson of Jose Diokno, your namesake, who was considered the father of
36:38 modern human rights or human rights in the Philippines.
36:40 And then one of your ancestors, great-grandfather, well, great-grandfather, General Diokno of
36:49 the Philippine Revolution.
36:51 And yeah, anyway, what I want to ask about that is to what extent does your ancestry
36:58 or lineage influence your work, your choices of topics?
37:04 Well, obviously, Gomburza is a serious film, but even your previous work, you've done
37:11 work on frat violence, the drug war, above the clouds, it was also about
37:19 your grandson, grandfather estrangement, it was also pretty intense.
37:26 Can a Pepe Diokno, with that kind of lineage, do comedy, for example?
37:34 I mean, do you feel free to do anything you want, or do you feel a certain responsibility
37:41 not to do social commentary, political films, historical films?
37:46 Well, first, with historical films, I think it's really an honour and a privilege just
37:50 to get the opportunity to do one.
37:52 So when GESCOM had invited me to pitch for the project, I jumped at it.
37:57 Most filmmakers would like to explore this, but it's important first to tell stories.
38:01 But I've been, I don't know, I would say maybe early on, but I'm trying to distance
38:14 myself from that, try to have more fun, I guess.
38:16 You know, over the last eight, because I haven't made a film in eight years.
38:20 My last film was still in 2015, actually.
38:25 And then in the interim, I stopped making movies.
38:29 I really feel after that third film that I had hit a dead end creatively.
38:33 So I went into advertising, actually.
38:36 So I've done a lot of commercials, branded short films, those viral films that many people
38:43 watched.
38:44 We made some of those.
38:46 And I've done love stories, branded commercials that millions have seen.
38:52 I've done comedies.
38:55 And I really find it fun.
38:58 And it's something that I would like to do more of.
39:02 There's a film I'm working on now that's a horror film.
39:06 But I don't think political or social aspect of it will be lost.
39:14 Because I think that all stories, all art, I think is political.
39:18 Every filmmaker, I think, should have a point of view.
39:23 So I don't think it will be lost.
39:25 But I'm trying to have more fun with what I do.
39:28 I hope.
39:29 Well, yeah, I've seen some of those commercials.
39:32 They are fun.
39:35 It's just that they're rarely branded as directed by Pepe Dioc.
39:39 I mean, the films that you're really known for are these films.
39:42 But in particular, just before we wrap up, Pepe, the film "Encuentro," that was years before
39:51 President Duterte was elected president.
39:55 And when you made it, he was mayor of Davao.
39:59 Well, it was basically what was going on in Davao at that time.
40:03 But it foretold what was going to happen in the country just years later.
40:08 It was 2009, right?
40:11 Yeah, yeah.
40:12 So imagine that was seven years before.
40:15 And then you were, it was kind of a warning in a way.
40:18 So how did you feel when your topic, your subject in that film
40:30 became kind of real life, you know, writ large?
40:33 On one level, I think I felt like I had failed, honestly.
40:41 That it even came to a point, and I think this is one of the reasons why I started making films.
40:49 I started, I stopped making films in 2016.
40:51 So yeah, 2015, 2016.
40:53 Is para, what are we even doing this for?
40:57 I still have those feelings every now and then, those thoughts every now and then.
41:02 So yeah, I'm not gonna lie.
41:07 So has that, yeah, okay.
41:12 But has that perception or feeling changed now because of "Gomburza" and the reactions to it?
41:18 The thing is, I don't blame the audience.
41:26 And I don't blame the people.
41:28 Because I, okay, in the last eight years, apart from doing advertising, I've also done comms,
41:36 done a lot of volunteer work as well, talking about different issues, human rights, for example.
41:45 And even during political, during election season.
41:50 And I've come to realize that if we're not getting the message across,
41:58 and if we're not creating the responses that we want,
42:02 it's less about the people and more about us and the perspective that we have.
42:07 How do we retrain our thinking?
42:12 How do we change the way we speak in order to get points across even more?
42:20 And maybe, for me, personally, it's been a change of perspective.
42:28 It's not, I've tried to change my perspective from what can I express?
42:33 What can I say?
42:33 What message can I impart?
42:35 And more of what can I give?
42:36 What can I share?
42:37 What experience I can share with the viewers?
42:41 It sounds simple, but I think that it's major fundamental.
42:44 Now, we need to think of our audience more is what basically what I've learned over the last
42:49 eight years.
42:50 How do, what experience are we giving them?
42:52 How are we, what emotions are we stirring in them?
42:57 And yeah, so I think with this film, I was lucky that with this film, sort of been able to apply
43:09 that perspective.
43:12 I'm now thinking about the audience even more.
43:15 I respect the audience and I want to keep giving the audience stories that are well
43:25 developed and well made.
43:26 In the times that I was dejected because of what was happening in our country, it forced
43:33 me to look inward and see that there were failings and limitations.
43:38 Maybe yeah, on my end that I needed to improve.
43:43 Wow.
43:45 As part of your audience, thank you.
43:47 Thank you for that and thinking of us in that way.
43:51 So that's a great note to end on, Pepe.
43:54 This has been a great conversation.
43:55 Salamat for sharing the backstories and may you continue to direct quality films.
44:02 Mabuhay ka, Pepe Diokno, award-winning director of Gomburza.
44:07 Marami-marami sila.
44:08 Thank you.
44:09 Ganun oran.
44:09 Thank you so much.
44:10 Hi, I'm Howie Severino.
44:12 Check out the Howie Severino Podcast.
44:14 New episodes will stream every Thursday.
44:16 Listen for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and other platforms.
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