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00:00 Let's get the analysis and bring in Ariane Beauguin,
00:02 senior lecturer in French politics,
00:05 joining us from the University of Northumbria,
00:06 up there in North Eastern England,
00:09 in the city of Newcastle.
00:10 Ariane, as ever, thanks for being with us.
00:13 I'm interested to find out what you think
00:14 about Gabriel Attal's first cabinet.
00:17 Can we start with Foreign Minister,
00:19 the appointment of his partner in a civil partnership?
00:22 Some might say this could be nepotism
00:24 or it could be a brilliant decision.
00:26 I suppose it depends how it all pans out.
00:28 Yeah, I'm not too sure what I think about that.
00:32 I think the previous Foreign Minister
00:35 was a former diplomat, was not political enough,
00:38 didn't really explain what France wanted to do,
00:41 whether it's Gaza or Ukraine.
00:45 Sijouane is a European MP, is a core Macronist.
00:50 He was responsible for the programme of Macron in 2017.
00:54 So I prefer to see it as a political appointment,
00:59 a message sent, rather than nepotism.
01:03 Their relationship is very much discussed
01:05 in French gossip columns.
01:06 Could this be a distraction from the serious work ahead?
01:10 I don't think so, because it's not really known
01:13 widely by the public.
01:15 And I think that there are more important issues
01:20 currently in France than the gossip columns.
01:23 So I don't think it will be a source of distraction.
01:29 Indeed, question had to be asked, though,
01:30 as the question needs to be asked about Rajita Dati,
01:33 because she, too, is somewhat controversial
01:37 as an appointment, brought back into power.
01:39 Of course, you can talk about her politics
01:41 as an ally of Nicolas Sarkozy once upon a time,
01:44 those kind of things.
01:45 But there's a legal case hanging over her head, too,
01:47 about corruption.
01:48 Yes, there is.
01:49 And that-- I mean, we've had cases like that before,
01:55 Moretti, for example.
01:56 And I think what the government is saying
01:58 is, you know, innocent until proven guilty.
02:03 They'll remain in government until or unless they are--
02:09 you know, they are charged.
02:11 Again, is it really going to be a problem for the French?
02:15 I'm not sure.
02:15 She's a well-known person.
02:18 She's quite popular.
02:20 She's very punchy in the way she talks.
02:25 And it has a feel of a kind of back to the future.
02:27 It's kind of like Let's Party as if it's 2009.
02:31 So I was quite surprised, to be honest, by this appointment.
02:35 But it really shows the main takeaway of today,
02:38 which is the turn to the right.
02:40 This government is really turning to the right.
02:44 That is the symbol of this fact.
02:48 Would that be why someone like Gérald Darmanin
02:50 remains in position as interior minister,
02:53 in spite of the fact that he's been highly
02:54 criticised over many issues?
02:56 I'm thinking back to the fiasco over the Champions League
02:59 final at the Stade de France when foreign football
03:02 fans were targeted.
03:04 And he said some things about them which were, frankly,
03:08 well, injurious, if not slanderous.
03:11 Yes, against Liverpool fans.
03:13 Give us your sense on that.
03:15 Well, if you look at it, all the heavyweights
03:18 of the government that were in previous governments,
03:21 they all stayed.
03:22 And I think it's to try and counterbalance
03:25 what might be perceived as Atal's lack of experience.
03:30 Also, he is a professional politician.
03:34 And what's new with this government
03:35 is that it is a political government as opposed
03:38 to a technocratic one.
03:40 And clearly, what Macron wants, it's
03:43 a government that is geared for political fight.
03:48 So Darmanin is staying because he
03:51 is a professional politician who can talk to the public, who
03:55 can defend the government's position in the media, who
03:59 can attack opponents.
04:01 And all the heavyweights stayed for that particular reason.
04:05 And Dati is an addition to that, to a very political government.
04:10 Indeed.
04:11 Gabrielle Atal, no one can doubt.
04:13 Clever man, intelligent man.
04:14 You don't get where he is by luck.
04:17 However, could there be a case of it being,
04:19 to coin a phrase from a very famous song
04:21 back in the early '80s, too much too young?
04:26 It's possible.
04:27 And I think one of the main issue
04:28 is will he manage to impose his authority?
04:30 You know, you might be very popular with the public.
04:33 It doesn't mean that your more experienced colleagues
04:36 are going to bow to you and listen to you,
04:38 especially as he will be seen by many in the government
04:42 as a rival for 27, which I know is three years down the line.
04:47 But everyone is already thinking about it
04:49 because Macron can't stand again.
04:51 So it's going to be really interesting to see
04:54 if he can stand up to all those heavyweight people.
04:57 And some of them did not want him to be appointed.
05:01 That's why we had to wait so long on Wednesday, Tuesday,
05:05 whenever it was, Wednesday, sorry.
05:07 - Your point, Ariane, is good one though, isn't it?
05:10 I think if this works out for him,
05:12 he definitely has then going forward presidential credentials.
05:15 - Definitely, it's a huge platform for him.
05:18 It gives him a lot of exposure.
05:20 And I think that's why a lot of people
05:23 were not happy with his appointment
05:24 because they didn't necessarily see him as a rival
05:28 a week or two weeks ago.
05:29 And now he is, especially if he's successful,
05:32 but that's the big if.
05:33 - Ariane Bourgain, it's always a pleasure speaking to you.
05:35 Senior Lecturer in French Politics
05:37 at the University of Northumbria.
05:39 Thank you very much indeed, Ariane.
05:40 Great to see you. Thank you.
05:42 We're of course watching for all developments
05:44 and we'll get you more, of course,
05:45 on this new lineup in the high echelons of French politics.