Paul Mescal has taken the entertainment industry by storm, and this Irish actor joins Esquire to talk about his hit shows 'Normal People' and 'All of Us Strangers.' Watch along to grab some of Paul Mescal's styling tips, learn about his experience filming the Rolling Stones Music video, and his take on Gaelic football vs. American soccer.
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00:00 Camera rolling.
00:03 Got it.
00:03 Take six.
00:04 Mark.
00:04 Great.
00:08 So we just got a conversation.
00:09 Cool.
00:10 So let's do the chat.
00:12 We have been asking people to do some sort of intro,
00:16 like a I'm Jake Dupree and I'm a performer,
00:20 or less dancer, whatever kind of speaks to you,
00:23 or whatever you want to call yourself.
00:24 And then do I need to say like pronouns stuff?
00:27 If you want to, but you don't feel like you have to.
00:29 Sweet.
00:30 OK.
00:31 Whenever you're ready.
00:33 Hi, I'm Jake Dupree.
00:35 My pronouns are they/them, and I'm a burlesque performer
00:38 and lingerie lover.
00:40 Amazing.
00:41 One more time for safety.
00:44 And let's cut the hi, just start I'm Jake Dupree.
00:46 Cool.
00:47 I'm Jake Dupree.
00:48 My pronouns are they/them, and I'm a burlesque performer
00:51 and a lingerie lover.
00:53 Love it.
00:54 OK.
00:55 So when I ask you these questions,
00:56 if you can kind of restate the question in your response,
00:59 which would be amazing.
01:00 Totally.
01:02 How do you define gender affirming care,
01:04 and what does it mean to you?
01:07 I define gender affirming care as true value in me.
01:13 I think that for me, performing the way I do
01:15 has been such a huge part of me identifying myself
01:19 and a part of my gender identity, which is so exciting.
01:22 I thought that initially it was sort of this alter ego version
01:25 of me, but what I realized is it's a true part of me
01:28 and a true meaning of my expression
01:30 and how I operate in the world.
01:34 I think that for me, most of the gender affirming care that I get
01:38 is on stage, but I also-- it's really nice when someone uses
01:41 the proper pronouns for you and really says it and listens
01:46 to you whenever it's like-- even if you get it wrong,
01:48 it's like if you listen to it, that's all that matters.
01:50 So I think that for me, it's like very simple things,
01:53 but they're really, really effective.
01:55 And you just touched on this with the follow-up.
01:57 What is a misconception about gender affirming care?
02:00 Because when you think about that, it's health care.
02:02 Yeah. I think that the misconception about gender affirming care
02:06 is that it's all physical, or all to do with looks
02:12 or a piece of clothing or anything like that,
02:14 but it really has to do with using outside forces
02:19 to kind of reinforce yourself emotionally.
02:21 And I think that that's the part that's the misconception about it.
02:26 And do you think this perception needs to change?
02:28 I absolutely think this perception needs to change.
02:30 I mean, of course, gender affirming care can come in all kinds of capacities
02:34 and all different things, and I think that, too, there are--
02:37 there's a lot of beauty in something physical or to make yourself feel
02:41 a certain way or look a certain way that really reaffirms
02:44 what you feel inside, but I think that the common misconception
02:47 is that it's all just that, and it's not that at all.
02:50 - Did you say that last part? - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
02:54 - Let's hold off for one second. - Motorcycle.
02:57 I absolutely think that that-- sorry, what was the question again?
03:04 That the perception of gender affirming care needs to change.
03:07 I absolutely think that that perception of gender affirming care
03:10 needs to change, because, of course, anything physical,
03:13 anything that can reaffirm how you feel on the inside
03:16 is beautiful and valid and perfect, but I think that most people
03:20 need to realize that it's more of an emotional standpoint.
03:23 - No. - Yeah! Come on, motorcycle.
03:27 I'd say one more for safety. I think we got it, but--
03:31 Yeah, I think I got it right before it blew past.
03:35 You said in, actually, a previous interview with Elle
03:41 that you get a lot of the gender affirming care from how you perform.
03:45 Can you just talk about that?
03:47 Yeah, I think the way that I perform, it really validates and reaffirms
03:52 how I feel on the inside. I think, for me, I got into this art form
03:56 and performing the way I do because I was in a very, very depressed place,
04:00 and I started going to therapy because I had some thoughts
04:03 that were scaring me in a way, and that's something I don't really talk about
04:07 that much because it's kind of dark in a way,
04:10 but I think that being on stage, presenting the way I want to,
04:16 dancing the way I want to, having ownership of everything that I do on stage,
04:21 it has been the most reaffirming thing in my entire life,
04:24 and I can't imagine my life without it.
04:27 It feels-- When I'm up there, I feel like a superhero.
04:30 It feels like I don't have to think. My body takes over, and I kind of--
04:35 It's so strange. It's so hard to explain because it taps into this part of me
04:40 as a little kid that would hide or put things into boxes or compartmentalize
04:46 or anything like that just to get by,
04:48 especially living where I'm from in Arkansas.
04:52 So now I get to be that little kid again and let them live as freely as possible
04:59 and wearing as little clothes as possible.
05:03 Amazing.
05:05 Can you take us through your career and how you got to where you are now?
05:09 Oh, God. Do you have all day? No.
05:11 Okay, so my career has been--
05:14 There have been a bunch of paths that have been going in various different directions,
05:18 and somehow they ended up all on the same track, and I'm very thankful for that.
05:22 But it was-- At one point in my 20s, for sure, I felt like,
05:25 "Oh, Lord, you're just throwing things at a wall trying to see what sticks."
05:28 And it was true, and luckily something did stick,
05:31 and it just happened to be this art form of burlesque or performing the way I do.
05:36 I initially got into it. I was doing musical theater stuff,
05:40 and I was a fitness teacher and getting attention that way,
05:43 and it was really cool being a fitness teacher.
05:46 It kind of-- When you walk in that room, it's your room to own.
05:49 It's your show, and that's how I treated it always, which was really fun.
05:54 But it made me have this confidence in myself that I can be in front of people
05:57 and be myself and deliver whatever message I need to deliver,
06:01 whether it's an eight-count of abs or me taking my clothes off for strangers.
06:07 But with teaching, I started doing a job for Cosmopolitan magazine, which was amazing,
06:14 and it was this kind of opportunity that really changed my life
06:17 and kind of gave me an excuse to express myself in a feminine way,
06:21 which I had always wanted to, but I think I needed the money validation of a job
06:26 to kind of validate that.
06:28 So getting to do that and seeing how that progressed, it was just amazing.
06:32 And then from there, I started doing--
06:35 I entered this amateur drag competition at Revolver in West Hollywood,
06:39 which is a gay bar, and it was this 10-week-long competition,
06:42 and I kind of did my burlesque-y thing.
06:46 I wore wigs at points. I didn't wear wigs at points.
06:49 I kind of do what I do now, and it was this crazy moment where it was just up to me
06:54 to come up every week with whatever the theme was for the week,
06:57 whether it was Beyonce or Madonna or whatever.
06:59 I kind of gave my thing, and I ended up winning the whole thing.
07:03 And from that, I did this number based off this amazing burlesque performer here in L.A.
07:08 Her name is Miss Miranda, and she does this number where she poured hot sauce down her leg
07:12 and makes the guy lick it off, and I just thought that was just--
07:16 to see this kind of goddess, statuesque, and make this man just lick something off her,
07:20 I was like, "Oof, I need that in my life."
07:22 So I kind of did a number based off that, and she saw that I had been inspired by her
07:27 for this number that I did for that competition.
07:29 She reached out to me, and she was like, "I would love to see the number."
07:32 And I was like, "Oh, God, okay. Here you go."
07:34 And so I sent it to her, not expecting anything from her.
07:37 And she sent me this huge email back being like, "I don't even know what to say. I'm blown away."
07:44 It was just this surreal moment of being like, "I'm doing the right thing.
07:49 I'm going to trust myself and keep going."
07:52 After I won the competition, she told me about this audition for Dita Von Teese's show here in L.A.
07:57 called "Von Follies," and it was at the Roosevelt Hotel.
08:00 And I went to the audition.
08:01 I was so nervous because I thought it was just going to be the people that take her clothing
08:06 whenever she takes it off.
08:08 And I was like, "Of course, I would love to do that because she's an idol of mine."
08:14 But I tasted the spotlight, and I wanted that more.
08:18 And when I went to the audition, it was this moment where the room just kind of stopped.
08:23 And it was just me in lingerie, my heels, and my finger wave.
08:27 I came out of nowhere.
08:29 It was a room full of all these burlesque greats from all over the world, really.
08:34 And there I was, and I got picked to do her giant martini glass act, which was surreal
08:39 because that number in particular is something that has always made me want to do burlesque.
08:44 And to learn from her, just the two of us in rehearsals, that was truly unreal.
08:50 I mean, that kind of set me on the path.
08:52 And now I've gone on--this is six years now, and I'm the first non-binary person to perform
08:56 at the Crazy Horse in Paris.
08:58 Like, that was my dream.
08:59 Like, literally my number one dream was to perform at the Crazy Horse, and it happened.
09:03 And now I'm in Vegas doing shows with Kylie Minogue and Christina Aguilera,
09:08 and it's just--it feels really good to see where it's all gone.
09:12 Sometimes I was like, I don't know where it's necessarily going to go,
09:15 but I just kind of trusted the process of it, and I'm glad I did,
09:19 because sometimes whenever you listen to yourself, you can make things happen
09:22 that you thought maybe never could, and I'm really happy that they did,
09:27 because otherwise it would just be me and my bare ass all glistened up in my room alone.
09:34 But now I get paid to show it to people, so that's kind of fun.
09:38 Was there a moment where you sat yourself down and you were like,
09:41 I'm going to take this seriously, this is what I'm meant to do?
09:44 Yeah, I think the moment I decided to take it really seriously
09:48 was the moment I entered that drag competition all those years ago.
09:52 I mean, it was just--the stage was no bigger than probably this space,
09:56 and I treated it with the utmost respect and passion that I could,
10:01 and I think that's what changed it all.
10:03 But then getting the validation of working with Ida Von T's,
10:05 that kind of--it kind of gave me this stamp of approval to be like,
10:09 okay, we're going to see where this can go, and it's been really interesting
10:12 seeing all the avenues that it's taken, and now I'm sitting here with y'all,
10:16 so it's kind of surreal in a way.
10:20 I'm kind of just seeing where it goes from here.
10:25 And how has this career trajectory aligned with your perception of gender over time?
10:31 Like, has this changed your perception of yourself?
10:34 Yeah, I mean, I think that--I want to say that this career path
10:38 has definitely affected the way that I feel about gender, period,
10:43 is that I think coming where I'm from, and especially being born in 1988
10:49 and seeing the progression of how gender has gone,
10:52 I think that I never was exposed to people that were "different."
10:56 I don't like to use that word because I don't think anybody's really that different.
10:59 I think we're all kind of the same, just in various forms.
11:04 But I've been "othered" my entire life, and so to see this moment of being on stage,
11:12 getting this validation from even straight people that I normally was kind of--
11:17 not terrified of--that's such an extreme word--but definitely uncomfortable
11:20 being around straight men especially, because I've been judged predominantly by them
11:25 my entire life, ever since--before I even knew what I was doing, even as a kid.
11:31 So now getting to be on stage the way I do, it's really nice to feel this switch in my brain
11:37 of like, there are no limits, there are no bounds, I don't have to fit in this box or that box,
11:41 I can be anything, everything, and all of it in between.
11:45 So it's this weird, convoluted story of kind of me coming to terms with myself,
11:51 but it all has been so amazing, and the fact that it was brought on by being on stage
11:57 and just kind of trusting myself is really validating and really exciting and cool.
12:04 How do you choose to--or I guess if you can talk about how you choose to present yourself
12:09 while performing. Very intentional, I imagine.
12:13 Yeah, I mean, I think when I'm on stage, I'm very intentional about exactly everything that I wear,
12:19 makeup, hair, all of it. I want it to be as artful and as respectful of the art form
12:25 that it came from, because this is a woman-created art form.
12:30 And I call it a sport. It's a woman-created sport.
12:33 And to be--when I'm up there, I'm really trying to show all the respect
12:39 and show the admiration that I have for these women that paved the way for me
12:43 to get up there and parade around the way I do.
12:46 So I think that just trusting myself and believing in a vision that I have in my head
12:53 of being this kind of androgynous kind of statue of David that got stuck in his mother's closet.
13:01 You know what I mean? That's kind of how I picture it.
13:03 I want it to have this masculine body type where it's muscly and wet body looking,
13:09 but I want the movement and the makeup to allude to this feminine aspect
13:15 that I think is the most powerful thing in the world, because that's all--
13:18 the women that I've always admired are the women that use their sexuality to their advantage
13:23 and use that wink-wink, nudge-nudge to get everything they want.
13:26 And I think that's really--it's cool to kind of be a part of that change in the world.
13:32 At least in my delusional head, that's what I think.
13:35 And what is your hope that people see when they see you on stage?
13:40 I mean, what I hope people think when they see me on stage is--I hope she got paid.
13:48 No. Get the money first.
13:51 No, I think that I want people when they see me on stage to be really impressed.
13:56 And I think that what's interesting, too, is I come from a gymnastics background
13:59 and gotten to dance later in life, and so I use all that physicality in my performances.
14:04 So it's like no matter who looks at it, nobody can be like, "Oh, that's not cool," or "That's not impressive."
14:11 Because it's like some of the things I'm doing, especially in heels, it's like, "You try it."
14:17 So I think that for me, I just want people to be impressed and moved and just--
14:23 you may not want to get up on stage and take your clothes off for strangers or present the way that I do,
14:28 but I think that the confidence that I try to exude on stage is something that anybody could take
14:35 and run it with their own life, whatever that is.
14:38 It's like if you've ever had this dream of doing something, anything that's kind of "crazy" or "wild" or "weird," it's possible.
14:47 And it's like if I can get up there and do that, literally anything could happen, and you could do it, too.
14:53 So I hope that I inspire some type of confidence when people watch me on stage.
14:58 Did that door make a noise?
15:00 I think it broke.
15:02 Amazing answer. That was great.
15:03 Thank you.
15:05 A couple more. You touched on this earlier, but lingerie and burlesque and boudoir--
15:10 Boudoir, yes, yeah.
15:12 --are a big part of your performance. What drew you to the scene in this show?
15:17 Ooh, okay, so what drew me to the scene of burlesque and cabaret and lingerie and all of it,
15:23 I think that it ultimately comes down to my love of Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman,
15:29 Jessica Rabbit in that movie, and also Josephine Baker.
15:36 She's an American that moved to Paris and helped integrate audiences as a black woman and was even a spy in the war.
15:44 And so it was really--I've just been inspired by these women that there's a naughtiness and a kind of subversiveness to them,
15:51 but their overt sexuality is what kind of gets them what they want, and they use it to get their--whatever they want in life.
15:58 And I think that I've kind of--I don't know--in some way that's always played in the back of my head.
16:03 Like, you know, we all have our mind movies, and my mind movie looks like I'm Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman.
16:09 It's like I just am always drawn to anything that's kind of overtly naughty, overtly cheeky, and I don't know.
16:17 I just--it even was that way as a kid.
16:20 Like, I loved to be naked as a kid, and I kind of would be in my shower, like, giving something, and I'm like, "I was a kid."
16:27 Like, I didn't know what I was doing, but it just felt right, and now that I get to kind of be that little kid again, it's kind of cool and also weird.
16:36 For someone who has never seen a burlesque act, how would you describe it to them?
16:41 Ooh, this is a good question.
16:44 For anybody that's never seen a burlesque show, I think, or a burlesque act at all, number one, I'm highly surprised.
16:50 Number two, get out from under a rock.
16:53 Number three, I would describe it as this just pure acceptance of yourself.
17:00 And it's like, you know, at the end of the number, you're pretty much naked.
17:06 You know, everything's strategically placed if you want it to be, or you can be naked if you want.
17:10 I don't know.
17:11 But I just think that burlesque is this pure acceptance of your body, yourself, your spirit, and it's just the artful removal of clothing.
17:19 Like, that's the true definition of it.
17:22 Do you think there's any misconceptions about burlesque?
17:25 Yeah, I think that probably some of the biggest misconceptions about burlesque are that we're all just slutty or super sexual people, which we are.
17:34 We're all those things.
17:35 But it's like I think that people assume just because the way you perform or if you take your clothes off for a living that you're just going to be easy or up for sale or whatever.
17:45 And it's like that's not the way it is at all.
17:47 A lot of us have fought a lot of very, very hard to have the freedom to get out and do what we want to do and present the way we want to present and, like, be in these costumes and these feathers and sparkles and all that stuff.
17:58 And we fought hard to get to that point.
18:00 And I think that that's what I really want people to understand is, like, this is a true expression of us, expression of me, expression of anybody that wants to get into any kind of performance, especially nightlife performance.
18:14 Two more questions for you.
18:16 What does the art give back to you?
18:19 Oh, nothing.
18:20 No, I'm kidding.
18:22 The art gives back to me everything, really.
18:27 I mean, I always wanted to be included in a kind of a group of weirdos that are glamorous and beautiful.
18:38 Let me help.
18:40 Can you ask that question again?
18:42 What does the art give back to you?
18:47 This art form in particular or just art in general.
18:51 Either is fine.
18:53 Art form.
18:54 Unless you have a broader answer for it.
18:57 I think this art form has really given me everything.
19:01 I think that I was in a really, really dark place before I started performing this way.
19:07 And I think about this a lot.
19:10 And I don't want to cry, but I think about this a lot.
19:15 It's like some of the things I've been able to do and the spaces I've been able to inhabit and the people I've been able to meet, it wouldn't have happened had I chosen a different path or let that darkness really speak very loudly.
19:31 And I'm glad I didn't do that because if I didn't get to see myself at this point doing even this, I would be sad.
19:38 To have my life cut short and not see that, that's hard.
19:48 Not a fireman.
19:50 Literally, I'm the last one.
19:51 Not a fireman.
19:52 Yeah.
19:56 Let's see if it stops.
19:57 Okay.
19:58 It didn't cut.
19:59 Okay.
20:00 Take a tissue ready?
20:01 I'm okay.
20:02 Thank you, though.
20:03 I don't know what.
20:06 I think I breathe.
20:08 Hollywood.
20:09 Oh, I'm sure in New York it's like.
20:11 Oh, yeah, like sirens, everything.
20:13 I'm surprised we haven't had a siren yet.
20:15 Yeah, me too.
20:16 I'm actually shocked, especially Hollywood.
20:18 Or a helicopter.
20:19 Yeah.
20:20 The last Q&A for Women on that we did in New York, there was a launching pad of a helicopter.
20:27 It was that blade, like the Uber.
20:30 Jesus Christ.
20:31 Do people actually do that?
20:32 People do that.
20:33 Wow.
20:34 Used to be, but I found out that they.
20:35 Interesting.
20:36 How expensive is that?
20:37 Probably like.
20:38 $300.
20:39 Oh, that's not.
20:40 Yeah, it's not.
20:41 Oh, that's not too bad.
20:42 It's worth it.
20:43 Yeah, I mean, yeah, that traffic is not cute.
20:47 That traffic is not cute.
20:49 There we go.
20:51 Amazing.
20:52 Word.
20:53 Okay, this is my last question for you.
20:54 Do you have any advice for anyone who is either coming into their own or figuring out their
21:02 passion and how that kind of aligns with gender expression from what you've learned?
21:07 Yeah, I think the advice I would give somebody that is dealing with trying to figure out
21:14 their gender identity or gender expression or getting into an art form or a career or
21:19 anything is to just, and it's so generic and basic, but it's just to trust yourself and
21:25 also to give yourself the time.
21:26 I think a lot of people now really want immediate, immediate, immediate gratification.
21:32 It's like being on our phones, seeing anything we want on our phones.
21:36 It's just like everything's at your fingertips.
21:38 And I think that sometimes people just assume that I want this to happen, so it's got to
21:43 happen right now.
21:44 And it's like, no, lay the groundwork, do the work.
21:46 I think that that's the part that's the most important is to really assert yourself.
21:50 And if you're passionate about it, people will buy into it.
21:53 People will believe in it.
21:54 And I think that I'm a true testament to that.
21:57 Nobody was asking for me to do this, ever, no one.
22:00 And the fact that I'm here at this point getting to do everything that I get to do and make
22:05 my genuine dreams and goals happen, legit anything can happen.
22:10 And I have to constantly remind myself of that too.
22:12 When I get down on myself or hard on myself, it's like everything takes time.
22:16 And it's like I'm pushing something that I really want to change in the world, which
22:22 is just for people to be accepted for who they are, no matter what or how or anything
22:27 with the way they identify.
22:29 And that takes time.
22:31 Like progress is an incremental change.
22:33 And as frustrating and as annoying as that can be, it's worth it.
22:37 And I'm hoping that my queer ass can run or pave the road so these babies behind me can
22:44 really run.
22:45 Because I think that that's-- I'm excited to see what people will continue to do and
22:49 push.
22:52 And I think that's what I'm going to say for people is just dream and believe it.
22:56 But put the work in to make that happen.
22:58 Because that doesn't happen for everybody.
23:00 And it's hard to make things happen sometimes and believe in that.
23:04 And people are going to doubt you.
23:06 People are going to think that you're crazy.
23:07 People are going to think you're not worth it or that it's not a thing.
23:11 But if you believe in it and you put the work in, it will come back to you.
23:15 I really believe that.
23:16 But just believe in it.
23:19 Amazing.
23:20 Yeah.
23:21 Is there anything that you wanted to say that I didn't touch on?
23:24 Ooh.
23:25 Um.
23:28 Uh.
23:29 I don't think so.
23:30 It's amazing.
23:31 Yeah.
23:32 Great.
23:33 And just room tone?
23:34 Yes, let's do room tone.
23:35 But then I also just want to get some close up shots of Jake's necklace.
23:38 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:39 And just a couple shots in that.
23:50 You want me to go first?
23:52 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:53 Okay.
23:54 Okay.
23:55 Right.
23:56 Perfect.
23:57 Just 20 seconds of silence.
24:21 - Okay.
24:21 - Okay.