DRC opposition decries 'irregularities': 'Better to hold messy election than to delay indefinitely'
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00:00 The presidential and legislative elections across Africa's second largest country were
00:03 derailed on Wednesday by delays in delivering election kits and malfunctioning equipment.
00:09 A second day of voting was necessitated because of these logistical problems.
00:13 Some polling stations couldn't even open.
00:15 For more, we can speak to Professor Douglas Yates at the Paris-Sergei University.
00:20 Hello, Douglas.
00:21 Thank you for coming in.
00:22 First of all, when you saw these delays, this exceptional day of voting that happened on
00:28 Thursday, what was your first reaction?
00:30 Well, this was foreseeable that there would be these kinds of problems.
00:34 I've had the chance to do electoral observing in much smaller countries with much smaller
00:39 populations and trying to deliver ballots, trying to have electoral lists that are posted
00:46 that are complete, people having their cards.
00:49 All of these kind of technical details of running an election are magnified in third
00:54 world societies in equatorial Africa.
00:58 So I expected that there would be a lot of problems, but nevertheless, I think we could
01:03 congratulate Chisekedi for holding an election because often during the previous regime,
01:09 they would keep delaying the elections on the pretense that they couldn't hold them
01:12 properly.
01:14 And it's probably better to hold a messy election than to delay them indefinitely.
01:19 Do you think the population, the voters, would share that perhaps upbeat feeling that you
01:24 have?
01:25 No, but one thing is certain, is that the voters are expecting the winner of the election
01:33 to assume or hold power.
01:36 And so elections have become the only game in town.
01:40 When Chisekedi and his father were running in elections, everyone knew the Kabilas were
01:44 in power.
01:45 The Kabilas had not come to power through elections.
01:47 They had come to power through coup d'etat.
01:50 They toppled Mobutu and they held on to power with the gun.
01:55 Elections were plebiscites for the Kabilas.
01:57 Now that Chisekedi, someone who came to power through elections, as dubious as those election
02:04 results in 2018 might be, someone who came to power through elections is holding elections,
02:09 they're setting a new pattern, a pattern that was never established during the Mobutu
02:13 era.
02:14 So 2018, the first democratic transition of power in the country.
02:18 What is the state, what is the health of democracy in DR Congo?
02:21 Well, we still have sort of four principal actors, big men, who represent the different
02:28 formations who are competing with each other through elections.
02:33 But the new news here is that we're having 100,000 candidates running all around the
02:38 country in municipal elections for the first time ever, provincial elections.
02:43 Those used to be sub-infuded offices given by the president, legislative elections, presidential
02:49 elections, everything all in one swoop is being held.
02:53 And that's good news.
02:54 But I think people will be unhappy and we can expect the opposition to cry foul.
03:00 The size of the country, the size of the population, four elections at once.
03:05 Should it be maybe considered to organize these elections differently?
03:08 Well, it's interesting.
03:10 The Indian model would allow them to have several rounds.
03:14 Some of the opposition members have called for at least a two-round ballot, which allows
03:20 for getting rid of smaller candidates and sort of the static and lets people focus on
03:25 the realistic candidates.
03:27 I think the goal is to have an election and to have an election on time, but it's probably
03:32 not going to be that great.
03:35 And it's going to be subject to a lot of criticism because millions of people aren't able to
03:39 vote in war-torn regions.
03:41 Ballots and materials weren't delivered in some cases.
03:44 A hundred tons of material weren't delivered until a few weeks before the polls.
03:48 Electoral observers like the European Union pulled out their observers because they didn't
03:52 have the technology.
03:53 They weren't allowed to bring things in.
03:55 So there's going to be a lot of complaints about it.
03:58 But in the end, there's already rebellions.
04:03 It's not going to cause a war.
04:05 If there's post-electoral violence, it will be minimal and it will set a tradition that
04:09 down the road in a few years, there'll be another election.
04:12 We expect to see some preliminary figures floating around online today, in the coming
04:18 days as well.
04:19 How long until you have confidence in the figures that are being reported coming out
04:24 of the election?
04:26 Well, if one of the opposition candidates were to be declared the winner, we could have
04:33 great confidence in that because there would be no reason for the authorities to announce
04:38 an opposition victory unless there was one.
04:42 What seems to be happening-
04:43 But that would still maybe take weeks before all the ballot counting is done.
04:46 Well, it's interesting.
04:48 There's now the ability with the big Protestant church, with electoral observers, to have
04:54 individuals show up with their telephones at the booths where the count is publicly
04:59 taken and assemble preliminary figures.
05:03 And so long as they don't shut down the internet, that sort of secondary process allows
05:09 for an independent validation of the final count.
05:13 When we don't have that and the final count is behind closed doors, everyone suspects
05:18 fraud.
05:19 Regardless of the outcome of this vote, whoever wins, do you think they'll have to make
05:23 some sort of statement to the other camp to help the country perhaps heal after some uncertainty
05:30 and the logistical problems that happened?
05:32 Yeah, well, what Shisekete did in 2018 was he cut a deal with Bemba, who is now Minister
05:39 of Defense.
05:40 And it's possible to have between the big heavyweights who have been competing in this
05:44 election to have agreements made so that the losers accept losing.
05:51 And ultimately, that's what a democratic election is.
05:53 All right, Douglas.
05:54 Thank you.
05:55 Always a pleasure.
05:56 Professor Douglas Yates speaking to us about the elections in DR Congo.
05:58 [BLANK_AUDIO]