Gary Gulman is a comedian and author from Peabody, Massachusetts. One of Gulman's comedy sets went viral in the pandemic and his next comedy special, Born On Third Base, just debuted on Max.
He is one of only a handful of comedians to appear on every major late-night television comedy program, having performed on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, Late Show with David Letterman, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson, Jimmy Kimmel Live!, Conan, Late Night with Seth Meyers, Just for Laughs, and John Oliver's New York Stand-Up Show.
In the early 2000s, Gulman released a comedy album, Conversations with Inanimate Objects. It was re-released in 2013.
Gary Gulman, comedian and author, joins Rosemarie Miller on ‘New Money’ to discuss how he got his MAX comedy special, advice to comedians, and his frugal lifestyle.
He is one of only a handful of comedians to appear on every major late-night television comedy program, having performed on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, Late Show with David Letterman, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson, Jimmy Kimmel Live!, Conan, Late Night with Seth Meyers, Just for Laughs, and John Oliver's New York Stand-Up Show.
In the early 2000s, Gulman released a comedy album, Conversations with Inanimate Objects. It was re-released in 2013.
Gary Gulman, comedian and author, joins Rosemarie Miller on ‘New Money’ to discuss how he got his MAX comedy special, advice to comedians, and his frugal lifestyle.
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00:00 If you're going into comedy and you're on the fence about whether you want to do clean
00:04 comedy or comedy with a lot of curses in it, if you're on the fence, choose the clean comedy
00:09 because you can make a lot of money in royalties that they play on Sirius XM and the different
00:14 radio outlets.
00:15 Hi everyone and welcome to New Money where we talk to movers and shakers about how they
00:24 made it.
00:25 I'm your host, Rosemary Miller, here with comedian, author, is there anything else?
00:29 Oh, a basketball star.
00:33 And basketball star, Gary Goldman.
00:35 Thank you so much for joining me today, Gary.
00:36 Oh, it is my pleasure.
00:37 It is my pleasure.
00:38 New Money, I like the sound of that.
00:41 Yes, New Money.
00:42 Gary, congratulations on your HBO special.
00:45 Born on Third Base.
00:47 It's called Born on Third Base, yes.
00:49 Congratulations.
00:50 Thank you.
00:51 Thank you.
00:52 What inspired you to become a comedian?
00:54 Oh, I think the feeling I got in my earliest years, I mean probably three or four years
01:00 old at making my family laugh.
01:01 I was the youngest child and I remember reading that Kurt Vonnegut said that the youngest
01:06 child is always the family comedian and that was me.
01:10 I needed to get more attention because my brothers were a lot older than me and so I
01:14 knew that laughter was valued in my family.
01:17 So I was very funny around my family and would go out of my way to learn jokes and do impressions
01:23 and things like that.
01:24 So I've been funny since I was very young.
01:28 And laughter was valued.
01:29 How has laughter been valued throughout your life?
01:31 Oh, that's a very interesting question.
01:34 I think early on it was an excellent way to make friends and make people feel comfortable
01:40 and make people like me.
01:42 And then in college it was sort of a defense mechanism because I was a football player,
01:50 I was on the football team and I was inept.
01:53 I was not very good but I was able to make everybody laugh during the downtime, during
01:58 practice and games.
02:00 And so I was able to carve out a little bit of a niche of people who found me agreeable
02:07 and didn't discount my worth because of how poor of a football player I was.
02:15 So that was very helpful.
02:16 So why were you on the team if you thought you were a bad player?
02:19 I was really athletic and big.
02:22 I was 6'6", 255 pounds as a 17-year-old and this was very attractive to college football
02:29 recruiters but what they didn't understand was that I really was not very tough, aggressive
02:38 or dominant.
02:39 I was just athletic.
02:40 I could jump high and run fast but when it came to being hit I was very timid and so
02:47 it didn't work out.
02:48 But I made great friends and I got into a really good college so it was very helpful
02:53 for me.
02:54 Yeah, you were very timid.
02:55 I was.
02:56 And right now the career you have is something where you need some confidence to do this.
03:00 You're getting up on stage in front of all of these people.
03:03 Do you still feel like that timid boy?
03:07 I definitely do feel timid.
03:10 I think being a comedian gives you this power in that everything you say you get to prepare
03:19 and work out in front of different audiences and then you get better at it.
03:25 And so it's much easier for me to do that than say talk to strangers or go to a party.
03:31 When I go to a party I feel very anxious because you can't prepare everything you're going
03:35 to say.
03:37 And that's why I tend to be the person standing in the corner and trying to find somebody
03:43 I already know at a party.
03:45 So it's very different and it's very common for comedians to be amongst the introverts
03:51 and the shy people.
03:52 I wouldn't say I'm an introvert but I do get very anxious in social situations.
03:57 So you're good at talking at people, not so much talking with people.
04:02 I like to give them laughter but talking with them I would rather listen.
04:06 I would say that, that I'm a good listener because I don't want to really talk about
04:10 myself or tell people things about me.
04:15 Except if it's on HBO.
04:18 My last special was all about my recovery from depression and mental illness and I was
04:24 much more comfortable telling whoever had an HBO subscription than I was even people
04:30 in my family or close friends.
04:34 It's a paradox, a very strange paradox.
04:36 Why did you do that?
04:37 Why did you tell people about the depression, the anxiety?
04:42 Mostly because I was so grateful to be feeling better and I knew the things that got me better
04:47 and I wanted to share them with people and also sort of make light of the experience
04:52 so that people who watched it would feel comfortable discussing it and that it's not something
04:57 to be ashamed of or keep to yourself.
05:01 And so I think I accomplished that and I was very grateful for that opportunity.
05:07 Do you ever feel like, "Hmm, people didn't even know that this was going on with me because
05:12 you're always the one who's smiling.
05:14 You know, you're the one with the jokes.
05:15 What do you mean depression?
05:16 What do you mean anxiety?"
05:18 People were really surprised, even in my family.
05:21 And also I think as in general we assume that people who are as tall and cute as I am do
05:30 not get depressed.
05:33 So hopefully it made people feel like that being tall and handsome are not things that
05:43 neutralize depression and that it's chemistry and there's no accomplishment or amount of
05:50 money earned that's going to make you feel better if you have this chemical imbalance
05:56 in you or sometimes it's trauma or events in your life that can cause a depressive episode.
06:04 Speaking of the money, that's what we're here to talk about, the money.
06:08 So when did you know, "I made it.
06:13 I finally made it."
06:16 I think it's interesting.
06:19 There are certain things that will happen.
06:21 People think you made it and then it's…but I felt I made it like in 1999 when I went
06:30 on THE TONIGHT SHOW.
06:31 I thought, "Oh, I'm a professional comedian and I've been on television."
06:37 But there are certain things like we both live in Harlem and there's a joke I did
06:43 on Conan in which I used the expression "Nair do well" which is an unusual word.
06:48 I probably only used it in my act.
06:50 I never used it in real life.
06:52 And then I heard somebody from behind me yell out, "Nair do well!"
06:57 And I was like, "Oh man, I've made it.
06:59 I'm getting recognized in my neighborhood and they have to be talking to me."
07:04 Nobody just yells out, "Nair do well" in any other circumstance but seeing me.
07:10 So that felt like I'd made it.
07:13 And then to me not worrying about money is making it.
07:20 Because I grew up near poverty and we were on food stamps and free lunch and we were
07:26 on welfare and we were always worried about money week to week, day to day.
07:32 And my mother would be in tears on the phone with the IRS about having a lien put on her
07:37 house and things like that.
07:39 Worrying about dentistry and bills and things like that.
07:43 So I'm at a point right now where I don't worry, "Oh, am I going to be able to afford
07:49 rent next month or over the next year or two?
07:52 I think I'm good for rent."
07:54 And it's just, it relieves so much anxiety and I really feel for people who are in a
08:01 position where rent and food are considerations day to day and it shouldn't be.
08:09 And so it's heartbreaking.
08:10 Film Courage: And when did you feel like you finally got that stability where you didn't
08:14 have to worry about money?
08:15 Because in the business you're in I'm sure there are highs and lows.
08:18 Tim: Yes and it's interesting because it also relieves you or makes you more creative.
08:25 When you're not worrying about "Oh, I need to do something that's going to pay
08:28 the rent."
08:29 It's just so freeing and I have such a lightness about me when I'm not worried about having
08:34 to be on the road all the time or come up with another great idea to sell to somebody.
08:39 It's just…I'm so grateful for the position I'm in finally.
08:43 Film Courage: And how did you learn how to manage your money?
08:47 You didn't grow up with it.
08:49 What did you do?
08:50 How did you learn?
08:51 Tim: Well it's interesting.
08:52 I do have an accounting degree from Boston College so I know certain aspects.
08:57 I was a double major of accounting and finance so I do know a lot of aspects of investment
09:04 instruments and things like that and the time value of money of course.
09:07 But I also have this anxiety about managing my money.
09:14 So I've actually hired a business manager so that I don't have to do my own taxes
09:20 at the end of the year because it brought me so much anxiety.
09:25 But I did learn things over the years and I also have sort of an idea of…I guess my
09:38 philosophy is keep your overhead low.
09:41 So I try not to have too many things that are due at the end of every month so that
09:47 I have freedom to fail or try things or if things don't work out.
09:52 I don't have to say yes to everything and I don't have to compromise.
09:57 Sometimes I'll be invited to do shows at casinos which are very difficult to perform
10:01 there and also I feel bad for the people who lose money there.
10:07 But they pay very well.
10:08 I'm able to say no to them because I keep a low overhead and don't spend frivolously.
10:15 I was never a car person which I think helps because that can be a big expense and I'm
10:21 not big on jewelry or a lot of luxuries like that.
10:25 So my tastes are very simple.
10:29 Yeah.
10:30 Okay.
10:31 And so your tastes are simple but how do you decide where I'm going to put my investments?
10:40 You have no car.
10:43 You live in the city so what do you own?
10:47 Do you rent?
10:48 How do you invest?
10:49 I rent and I put my money into a SEP IRA at the end of the year which is a really good
11:01 program for self-employed people.
11:05 Another thing that I do is I'm not sure if I go 10% but it's probably close to 10% of
11:13 my income into charity in that I read this book called The Most Good You Can Do by Steven
11:24 Pinker and he's a philosopher and he wrote this book.
11:29 It wasn't that long, maybe 90 pages I think and he talked about how you could save a life
11:36 with $5,000.
11:38 That was what was keeping certain people on the continent of Africa from living or dying
11:44 was $5,000.
11:45 And when he put it into terms like that and then gave this organization called GiveWell.org
11:53 where they sort of vet these programs that provide relief and sustenance to people in
11:59 Africa and he said you give $5,000 you're essentially saving a life either through nets
12:06 to protect people from malaria, mosquitoes or there's a program through the Helen Keller
12:12 Foundation where they bring vitamin A to people which saves lives and also sight.
12:19 So I started giving at the end of every month the amount of money I had left over that I
12:26 wasn't going to use for food and things like that.
12:30 So it's something called effective altruism I think which I found very interesting and
12:36 that was what that book told me about.
12:38 So that's a part of my income and then I just, I don't, I don't, I know that it's a sucker's
12:49 bet to rent but I don't have the focus to go on a house search or anything like that
12:58 and my wife loves living in the city and doesn't drive so there's no urgency to me buying a
13:06 house but I do recognize that it's a very solid investment.
13:11 Film Courage: Yes!
13:12 And how many streams of income do you have aside from just doing the shows?
13:16 Adam: Oh I mean I have royalties on my albums which are significant believe it or not.
13:22 If you're going into comedy and you're on the fence about whether you want to do
13:26 clean comedy or comedy with a lot of curses in it.
13:29 If you're on the fence choose the clean comedy because you can make a lot of money
13:32 in royalties that they play on Sirius XM and the different radio outlets so that's been
13:38 very helpful.
13:41 And I also I guess I have I guess an advance on a book that I wrote so that's…I'll
13:51 probably never recoup the royalties on that.
13:54 And then I have some…what do you call it?
13:58 Residuals which are like royalties but for movies and television.
14:02 So I have that and then I have a small part on an Amy Schumer show LIFE & BETH so I get
14:07 a salary for that.
14:09 And so I'm not…I'm doing quite well for me.
14:16 For me this feels really good and comfortable.
14:18 Film Courage: That's good.
14:19 So tell me more about BORN ON THIRD BASE.
14:23 This is what we're all here for.
14:24 Tell us about it.
14:25 What can we expect?
14:26 Mark Sanderson, Screenwriter/Director/Producer/Producer/Artist Born on Third Base I think…I'm exaggerating
14:31 and being facetious but Born on Third Base will take a side with DEATH OF A SALESMAN
14:43 and A CHRISTMAS CAROL in calling for the destruction of the current capitalist system.
14:50 I think the jokes I make are mostly at the expense of the 1% and the look away crowd.
15:04 Or I just grew up on welfare, heard people denigrate it, deride it from Barry Goldwater
15:12 to Reagan and Bush and I know that it saved my family and also that first of all a lot
15:18 of people don't even get it.
15:22 They won't get it because they are ashamed or they don't know they are eligible for
15:26 it and then most people are not on it for very long.
15:29 It's very helpful especially for a single mom like my mother with three boys and a small
15:34 investment in the Goldman Boys over the years and we've repaid it hundreds and probably
15:40 thousands of times in our taxes that we've paid.
15:43 My brothers went to state schools.
15:45 I was able to get a football scholarship through some sort of miscalculation and so we were
15:51 very fortunate and these types of programs, state schools and public education are very
15:58 helpful at lifting people up and it's just a shame that it gets a rap for being that
16:08 poor people are takers or taking advantage and it's just propaganda.
16:17 But the special is hilarious.
16:20 It's my funniest special but underneath it are digs at greedy people.
16:27 Yeah.
16:28 And so what a lot of us don't know is the business behind these specials.
16:34 What is that like?
16:35 What are the contracts?
16:36 How do you negotiate this?
16:38 That's very interesting.
16:39 I always find it, I used to think that people would say, "Oh, Tom Cruise negotiated a contract."
16:46 And it's like, the people who are negotiating my contracts and I'm sure Tom Cruise's contracts,
16:52 sometimes I haven't even met them yet.
16:55 I do know all the people in my corner but there are cases where it's like, "It's nice
17:01 to meet you and this person is in charge of a lot of money or a lot of money to me."
17:07 So what happened with this special was I paid for it to be shot.
17:12 I paid a director and he assembled a crew and then when it was finished, my manager
17:19 who is a real idea man and not a yes man, he really is creative and he's great at connecting
17:26 me with other people, he said, "Conan O'Brien's company is looking for specials to produce,
17:33 to put their name on, to edit and package and it would be through HBO so we'll show
17:39 them your special if that's okay."
17:42 I said, "Yeah, of course.
17:43 I love Conan O'Brien.
17:44 He's given me a lot of great opportunities."
17:45 And so they saw it, they liked it, they offered us some money and then my manager went to
17:51 another company and said, "We're going to sell this to Conan O'Brien unless you want
17:58 to make an offer."
17:59 And then they made an offer and we said, "Oh, we're good.
18:02 We'll stick with Conan," which I was so grateful for.
18:04 They didn't spend as much money because I think Conan's one of the funniest people who's
18:10 ever lived and he's just really nice.
18:11 He's such a thoughtful, kind, generous guy and so I was really glad.
18:16 So then his deal that he made years ago was with HBO to provide them with some content
18:22 for their streaming service and so I'm sure he will receive a fee from them.
18:27 So there are a lot of opportunities for, as they say in the old time gangster films, to
18:33 wet one's beak.
18:34 Yeah, I don't know that well.
18:35 It's an expression I first heard I think in The Godfather Part 2 and I was like, it didn't
18:44 resonate with me but I remember it did stand out to me.
18:50 I was like, "Oh, that's an interesting metaphor that I don't understand either."
18:53 Before I let you go, I must know your take on Instagram and TikTok comedians who aren't
19:01 really doing stand-up but they're doing their skits.
19:04 What are your thoughts?
19:05 I think I don't begrudge them at all.
19:10 I think it's not always my taste but they do have an audience and they're beloved by
19:17 their audience and they're connecting in a way that traditionally was through network
19:21 television or cable television or when I was a kid I would listen to comedians' albums.
19:27 And so however you're finding your audience, I say more power to you.
19:32 I do kind of feel a little bit embarrassed about constantly saying, "Look at me on Instagram.
19:38 Here's a picture of me at this thing and here's a famous person who I took a picture with."
19:43 I feel kind of embarrassed by it but I don't begrudge them because I also got opportunities.
19:51 My big break really was going on Conan, doing a joke about the abbreviating of all 50 states
20:01 down to two letters and nobody really saw it when it aired but then over 30 million
20:07 people watched it on YouTube and the different Facebook and all that.
20:13 It doesn't matter.
20:14 I always prayed that my audience would find me and I'm just grateful and anybody else
20:20 who's finding an audience or their audience finding them I'm happy for as long as they're
20:26 not vile, despicable human beings.
20:30 But I think that's always the case.
20:32 Film Courage: It's stand-up kind of dying in a way because I can't think of many new
20:38 stand-up comedians.
20:39 Like we have Matt Rice and maybe before him…I know this is me…maybe Kevin Hart.
20:46 That was the last big name I heard.
20:48 So is it a thing?
20:51 Maybe you should have started X amount of years ago, stand-up is the thing but if you
20:55 want to be a new age comedian maybe it's skit.
20:58 Kevin Hart, Jr.
20:59 No, I don't think there's ever been a better time to be a stand-up, nor a vegan,
21:03 nor mentally ill.
21:04 I'm living in the golden age of all my intersections.
21:09 I'll point this out.
21:10 So in between Kevin Hart being a superstar and Matt Rice being very famous, I found a
21:17 niche.
21:18 And while I'm not in the attraction or views or what have you of those two, I've settled
21:28 into an area where I can go to probably 50 cities in the country and sell a thousand
21:32 tickets so it's pretty good.
21:34 I can't complain about that.
21:37 It's really beyond a dream come true.
21:41 So I don't think stand-up is dying.
21:45 I think that the traditional way of discovering stand-up is changing and morphing and I don't
21:53 know what it will be like in 10 years.
21:56 But I'm glad I started when I started but without the internet and YouTube and all that
22:03 I probably would still be completely unknown and now I'm just virtually unknown.
22:10 So what is your greatest piece of advice that you would give to a young comedian who is
22:16 trying to be like you today?
22:18 I would say believe, persist, and don't give up because it is not necessarily, and I think
22:29 I heard this in the opening to a Nipsey Russell song recently where he was like "I'm not so
22:36 much better than everyone else, I just didn't quit, I just kept going and that's how I feel.
22:44 I'm not that much better than a lot of people I started with, I just didn't stop doing it."
22:48 And every couple of years I'd want to give up and then I'd lick my wounds and get back
22:56 in the fight.
22:57 It's very fun and it's not like you have to be making a living at it to enjoy it, you
23:04 just have to be able to do it and you can do it in more ways than you did when I started.
23:10 So I would say just keep going.
23:13 Just keep going.
23:14 Gary, you're awesome.
23:15 Oh, thank you.
23:16 You're awesome.
23:17 Thank you.
23:18 This was so great.
23:19 Thank you for doing this.
23:20 This was a delightful interview.
23:21 Thank you.
23:21 Thank you.
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