IR Interview: The Family, Writer & Lead Actor Of “Archie” [BritBox]
Producer/Cary Grant’s Daughter Jennifer Grant, Writer Jeff Pope, Producer/Cary Grant’s Ex-Wife/Memoir Author Dyan Cannon and lead actor Jason Isaacs talk to The Inside Reel about perspective, humanity, psychosis, reality, details and legacy in regards to their new limited series on the life of Cary Grant: “Archie” on BritBox.
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00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 Anybody who ever cared about me could never do that to me.
00:14 Shut up!
00:15 My daughter, Jennifer, she is by far my best production.
00:19 What a journey we've been on.
00:22 Now I know exactly who I am.
00:26 From both your perspectives, I mean,
00:28 it's all about the story, telling the right story
00:31 and telling it with the right perspectives.
00:33 Obviously, Jennifer, your father,
00:36 for that time, for the 20 years, you
00:38 had a very specific perspective.
00:40 Obviously, your mother had a different perspective.
00:42 But then Jeff coming in, you have
00:44 to look at it and bring all those plus his relationship
00:48 with his mother and all these things.
00:50 Can you talk about the important parts of the story for both
00:53 of you that you wanted to make sure
00:55 came through in this series?
00:57 Sure.
00:58 You go, you go, and then I'll--
01:00 Let's see.
01:01 I think I wanted really just his humanity.
01:06 Yes, he had a very troubled childhood.
01:12 And he did have issues from that childhood.
01:18 And we know the charismatic winsome, beautiful, elegant,
01:23 charming Cary Grant on screen.
01:25 And he was very much that in life.
01:29 But in this series, we focus on the troubles in his life
01:34 and where they emanated from, how amazing it
01:38 is that he could create himself in the way
01:42 that he did when he had no examples around.
01:46 But really, it's the troubled boy
01:51 who became this amazing star and then found out
01:54 that his mother was still alive.
01:58 I've left out part of the story.
01:59 They want you to change your name.
02:00 Archie Leach doesn't cut it.
02:02 Anything come to mind?
02:04 Cary Grant.
02:06 Now, isn't that a beautiful name?
02:09 Cut!
02:10 The name of the father, the son, and the Holy Weekend box office.
02:14 Cary Grant is a character.
02:15 I've been very careful about how he's perceived.
02:18 [MUSIC PLAYING]
02:20 Cut!
02:21 This is the dreamiest guy in the world we're talking about.
02:23 You're not going to break my heart, are you?
02:25 Probably.
02:25 [LAUGHS]
02:26 Ah, I walked into that one.
02:28 [LAUGHS]
02:29 Thank you, New York!
02:31 I ain't going home tomorrow.
02:33 I'm going to stay here, and I'm going to be a star.
02:35 What accent you got, kid?
02:36 English.
02:37 OK, thank you.
02:38 Next.
02:39 I spent most of my life wondering
02:40 who I was supposed to be.
02:41 You'll find that we're all fakes in this town, my dear.
02:44 Aren't we, Cary?
02:46 The first question I wanted to ask both of you
02:49 is capturing both the elegance and the psychosis
02:53 in a way of a figure like Cary, who obviously you
02:57 knew intimately, Diane, but transferring that
03:01 into a physical form with Jason.
03:04 Were there discussions?
03:06 Were there certain elements that you
03:08 wanted pinpointed, Diane, versus Jason, what you saw
03:12 that you wanted to bring as well?
03:14 I mean, there were interesting--
03:17 there was some creative friction all around
03:19 with the various elements, but between Diane and I,
03:21 I think--
03:21 Never, never.
03:22 --were never anything.
03:23 I felt like it was my mission to tell
03:26 the story of this young girl who got into a marriage
03:29 over her head with someone who the whole world worshipped,
03:32 who behind closed doors was the very opposite of all
03:35 the things he was admired for.
03:36 And then not only to do that, to tell her story honestly,
03:41 but also to explain somehow emotionally
03:43 for the audience to understand how he got to the point
03:47 where he would behave so appallingly.
03:48 Because I haven't met my soulmate yet.
03:51 Oh, that's what you want, is it?
03:54 Who doesn't?
03:56 I want a husband and children.
03:59 I want what my parents have.
04:01 Oh.
04:04 You seem so certain.
04:07 Yeah, I was that way once.
04:11 What happened?
04:13 Well, two divorces, third imminent.
04:18 I realized a long time ago it wasn't for me.
04:26 I'm not good at being married.
04:27 That sounds to me like a cop out.
04:30 I beg your pardon?
04:31 Well, you're very good at being an actor
04:33 because you work at it.
04:36 Maybe you need to work a little less on your tan
04:39 and a little more on your marriages.
04:41 Ouch.
04:42 Touché.
04:45 He's told his mother's dead, and then, as Jennifer said,
04:47 finds out 25 years later, all along, she'd been alive.
04:53 This process has been a long gestation process.
04:57 We started talking 10 years ago because, quite rightly,
05:01 Jennifer is the most significant grant there is.
05:08 She had to--
05:12 why should I trust this guy from England?
05:13 So we had to build a relationship.
05:16 And we had to-- we went on a journey together
05:20 with Jennifer's mother, Diane.
05:22 And it's been 10 years of, in the best sense,
05:24 arguing, fighting, creatively, I mean.
05:29 And for me, as the writer, I've had these two
05:34 incredible primary sources, different experiences
05:37 of life with Carrie.
05:39 Diane is his ex-wife.
05:41 Jennifer is his daughter.
05:42 But it's absolute gold for me because these
05:48 are people who were in a room with him, who lived with him.
05:51 So this is what he did.
05:54 This is how he expressed himself.
05:56 This is the things he liked.
05:57 This is what he didn't like.
05:58 This is what he was scared of.
06:00 I'm talking to the people who knew, not once removed,
06:04 just reading a lot of stuff in books or on Wikipedia
06:11 or whatever.
06:11 It's not sterile.
06:12 I'm actually working with people who knew him.
06:15 And it was an incredibly invigorating experience.
06:19 [MUSIC PLAYING]
06:22 [CHUCKLING]
06:24 God.
06:25 Diane, come say hi to Doris.
06:29 Hi, Diane.
06:30 Hi.
06:31 Nice to meet you.
06:32 Gosh, you're very pretty.
06:34 Oh, thank you.
06:37 Doris, thank you.
06:40 I'm such a fan of all of your work.
06:42 That's so kind of you to say.
06:44 And of Carrie's, I assume--
06:45 No, she's not saying anything.
06:46 I don't know.
06:47 [CHUCKLING]
06:49 Yeah, Diane, can you talk about that
06:50 and seeing those elements?
06:52 Because it's your voice from the book,
06:53 but it's all the different things
06:55 that come together to make the series Archie what it is.
06:59 You know, it took me six years to write the book.
07:02 Why so long?
07:04 Very, very slow handwriting.
07:05 Yes, right.
07:07 What to leave in and what to keep out, choices.
07:10 And that's what they've done with the miniseries.
07:13 And there are a few things I would have added,
07:15 maybe a couple of things I would have taken away.
07:18 But it's brought about, as a girl recently said,
07:22 it's helped me have closure on the whole thing.
07:24 I've been talking about him, writing about him,
07:27 thinking about him for many years.
07:29 I'm healed now.
07:30 It took me a long time to heal from the marriage,
07:33 from the divorce.
07:35 But I'm able to love him again and able to celebrate him
07:40 through this miniseries.
07:41 I'm so absolutely thrilled with the work that was done,
07:46 first of all, with Jeff Pope's writing.
07:49 And this man, he makes light of it.
07:53 But I have to tell you something.
07:55 To play anyone else as an actor is a tremendous chore.
07:59 But to take on Cary Grant, who when I was married to him
08:03 was the biggest, the most beloved star in the world,
08:07 and to have the courage to do that, and to not only do it,
08:11 but to do it where in scenes he made it so real for me
08:15 that I cried.
08:17 I had to turn away from the screen.
08:20 That's the kind of work this cast has done.
08:22 I'm very proud of the work.
08:23 I'm very proud of the way it's turned out.
08:25 [FOOTSTEPS]
08:28 All set, Mum?
08:33 Mrs. Leach, it's time to go.
08:35 Come on, Mum.
08:39 You don't want to stay here any longer, do you?
08:43 Where are you taking me?
08:45 To Clifton.
08:48 I said you want to live there, remember?
08:52 You're Cary Grant.
08:53 Not to you, Mum.
09:01 Just R&G.
09:02 But the details, and if you want to talk to this Jennifer
09:21 as well, the details have to be right, like looking at Jason,
09:24 just little things that your father did that even
09:27 into his later years, you could see.
09:31 I don't think I heard Jason say good stuff,
09:33 but I mean, your father probably, I think,
09:36 used to say that.
09:38 But can you talk about looking at the details that
09:40 were important to find and maybe relate to Jason in the writing
09:45 or just through your experiences?
09:48 Prior to finding Jason, we spent so much time--
09:52 I mean, obviously, Jeff wrote the scripts,
09:57 but we really went through with a fine-tooth comb.
10:02 And every detail, I would say, oh, god, no,
10:06 he would never wear that.
10:09 Or he wouldn't approach it this way.
10:12 He would be listening to this kind of music,
10:14 or he would be watching this show, or whatever it was.
10:19 I mean, we really spent a great deal of time on the script.
10:23 So once it got to Jason, he had the scripts to rely on.
10:29 He did a tremendous amount of research.
10:31 And then he also had his intuition,
10:33 which was very keen.
10:35 I was on set, and there was a scene
10:39 where he was entering Elsie's apartment, and he did a knock.
10:43 [KNOCKING]
10:45 And after they cut, I ran over to him, and I said,
10:48 how did you find that knock?
10:50 Where did you find it?
10:51 And he said, what are you talking about?
10:52 I said, well, that was dad's knock.
10:54 He said, oh, I had no idea.
10:56 I just thought he was a playful man.
10:58 So I think once you've done that amount of homework,
11:02 he started to embody him in intuitive ways.
11:07 And he has the depth and the talent.
11:09 [MUMBLING]
11:10 [HUMMING]
11:12 [BELL RINGING]
11:13 Sorry, sorry, sorry.
11:14 Yeah, that's OK.
11:15 We've been having a rich old time, haven't we?
11:18 Who's the cable from?
11:20 United Artists.
11:21 I managed to get through to David Swift.
11:23 He's offering me the lead role in "How to Succeed in Business."
11:26 Kerry, he said I wasn't just his,
11:28 but everybody's first choice for the part.
11:29 And he said I own this role.
11:31 What are you thinking?
11:37 I think you're not thinking straight.
11:40 How can a mother even contemplate
11:41 being away for weeks or months on a movie set
11:44 when there's a baby girl depending on her?
11:46 For you, Jason, could you talk about finding that truth,
11:50 finding the truth of the man, but also
11:52 the romance and the sort of elegance of him?
11:56 Can you talk-- because there has to be a key balance,
11:59 I would think.
12:00 Or does there have to be a balance?
12:01 The stuff I'll never be able to do-- and I knew that going in--
12:04 he's a great director.
12:05 And I knew that going in.
12:06 He had an extraordinary physique.
12:08 And he had a dancer and a gymnast's body
12:10 and poise and all that stuff.
12:12 But some of the outside things, like those extraordinary
12:14 clothes, I didn't do.
12:16 They had the great Savile Row tailors make these clothes.
12:19 And I would stand there and do four or five fittings.
12:21 And they'd go, his shoulders dropped, his hip is forward,
12:23 his knee is backward.
12:24 And they'd compensate.
12:25 So I look like I'm standing elegantly.
12:26 But I'm really just hunched over like a Quasimodo.
12:31 And then really, the rest of it, playing it,
12:33 there's a makeup department.
12:35 They do extraordinary things on my face and hair and eyes.
12:37 And I had to do a bit on the voice.
12:39 But really, the work, the challenge of this
12:42 was to try and find a truthful way
12:43 to be someone who could be charming and lovely and fun.
12:48 But then also, when the world wasn't watching
12:50 and someone was in this intimate circle,
12:52 could also be monstrous and controlling
12:55 and full of fear-based rage and all those things.
12:58 One of the things I recognize as an actor--
13:00 I'm sure you do too-- is that thing about code switching,
13:02 being one thing to the public, being one thing,
13:04 and being different in every situation.
13:06 He learned, I think, Carrie, very early on,
13:08 through desperation and starvation and neglect,
13:12 to be whatever you needed him to be,
13:14 to work out how to make people like him and want him
13:18 and need him.
13:18 And of course, when he did that successfully,
13:21 it just made him feel that much emptier,
13:23 because he knew how little they really knew of him.
13:27 So the work was to try and find what
13:30 that felt like on the inside.
13:31 The outside stuff is just technical things
13:33 you do as an actor.
13:34 Actors become whatever you want us to be.
13:38 We lend ourselves to.
13:41 But in the case of Cary Grant, acting that--
13:44 I mean, we do it ourselves.
13:46 We want to be loved.
13:47 Actors want to please whoever is around.
13:49 That's why we do what we do.
13:51 But in the case of Cary, he went inside Archie Leach,
13:57 who then put on Cary.
14:00 Cary, we have a lot of friends that balance children
14:03 and their careers very successfully.
14:05 You know what other people do doesn't concern me.
14:08 You want me to tell them I can't take the role?
14:11 You wanted to be married to a family.
14:15 Now you have those things.
14:16 I can do both.
14:22 You do it.
14:23 Don't be ridiculous.
14:29 We have something special here, dear child.
14:33 Let's not mess it up.
14:34 I should say, both he and--
14:39 we felt this, that both he and Laura Aikman,
14:42 fantastic actress who played Diane, both of them
14:45 mastered being Diane and Cary, but then didn't get
14:50 trapped in an impersonation.
14:51 They lived and breathed as three-dimensional characters.
14:57 And they played the drama of the piece.
14:59 And so there's a danger if you go too big on tiny detail
15:08 that you become sterile.
15:09 You get lost in--
15:11 or you're just admiring how much he sounds and looks like him.
15:16 What they did brilliantly was to throw that away.
15:19 Yeah, they made them their own.
15:21 But I learned the word, talking about his detail,
15:28 how meticulous he was in his diction.
15:30 For a self-taught man, he was a little kid in Bristol.
15:32 He had nothing.
15:33 But I learned about the word "copacetic,"
15:36 which means everything is always well.
15:40 And it was a really fascinating experience
15:44 to go deeper and deeper and deeper into the man.
15:47 And he definitely would not have wanted this to happen,
15:52 because he was such an intensely private person.
15:55 But I do think, as you look at it,
15:59 there is a message to all of us out there, which is
16:01 that you need to be yourself.
16:06 In the early part of his life, he
16:08 created this character, Cary Grant.
16:11 And he realized, towards the end of his life,
16:13 he famously said, "One day I decided to introduce Archie
16:18 Leach to Cary Grant."
16:20 And you know what?
16:20 They got along just fine.
16:22 And fantastically, he achieved peace
16:28 in the last part of his life.
16:32 He was a great man.
16:34 Now, see, I think he would be happy at this point
16:38 to have it seen.
16:39 Not if he was alive today.
16:41 No, he wouldn't be alive today.
16:42 Because he treasured his privacy, which is wonderful.
16:48 He needed some privacy.
16:49 Everyone wanted a bit of him.
16:51 But at this point, now that he's gone,
16:56 I think it's such a lovely story and such a healing story.
17:00 I think he'd be happy to have it told.
17:02 [MUSIC PLAYING]
17:05 I'll never let you go, Archie.
17:08 You know what's wrong with you?
17:09 No, why?
17:10 Nothing.
17:11 [MUSIC PLAYING]
17:13 Dad, when are we going to see Mufford?
17:15 I'll be right back, I promise.
17:16 [MUSIC PLAYING]
17:19 No, please, I want to go home.
17:22 So it's OK to have a silly child like me in real life,
17:25 but in La La Land, it makes you look ridiculous?
17:27 You're Cary Grant.
17:29 Not to you, Mom.
17:30 Just Archie.
17:30 [MUSIC PLAYING]
17:34 [MUSIC PLAYING]
17:37 [MUSIC PLAYING]
17:41 (upbeat music)