11th Hour | Waseem Badami | ARY News | 13th December 2023
#AnwarulHaqKakar #election2024 #ciphercase #pti #asifalizardari
۔Who is responsible for terrorism in Pakistan? - PM Kakar's Reaction
۔PM Kakar's big statement regarding evacuation of Afghans
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۔Who is responsible for terrorism in Pakistan? - PM Kakar's Reaction
۔PM Kakar's big statement regarding evacuation of Afghans
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Official Facebook: https://www.fb.com/arynewsasia
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Website: https://arynews.tv
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NewsTranscript
00:00 [ARABIC]
00:24 Thank you very much for your time, first of all.
00:25 [ARABIC]
00:27 [ARABIC]
00:41 Do we have enough reasons to believe
00:42 [ARABIC]
00:51 [ARABIC]
00:58 [ARABIC]
01:01 [ARABIC]
01:09 [ARABIC]
01:20 [ARABIC]
01:22 [ARABIC]
01:23 We understand their leadership and there are some people from our side also.
01:29 So, unless you engage all the people who are in Afghanistan and the government in Afghanistan and if they don't have commitment, this will not be concluded.
01:46 Are we getting the response that we are expecting from them or is it less than that?
01:51 Look, obviously, these things are based on the relations between the two countries.
01:57 We would like more cooperation. We would like more cooperation.
02:03 From our perspective, from the perspective of Pakistan, it has always been less.
02:09 And we would like to see more progress.
02:12 And we hope that in the larger regional stability, the leadership of the Afghan government, I think, they understand this and they have an idea and understanding that if from Central Asia to Pakistan, from Pakistan to the North Caucasus, Iran, Azerbaijan, all the regions, China,
02:36 the security of the region, the journey towards economic prosperity,
02:45 will be able to be interpreted when there is a stable Afghan state, a stable Afghan government.
03:00 And I think this is first of all in the interest of the Afghan nationals and then obviously everyone else too.
03:07 But you are saying that it is a bit too early to conclude that they have involvement or negligence in this matter. Too early to conclude?
03:15 Absolutely. And I think that at the appropriate level, our various departments are engaged with them and they are understanding our seriousness of the pursuance and it is being translated.
03:30 And God willing, we will conclude this successfully.
03:33 And Prime Minister, you think that the matter of negotiations that took place recently, you think it was never a good idea?
03:39 Did this help strengthen those groups?
03:42 Look, if anyone still has confusion in this, then I think this is a national tragedy. It could be a national tragedy.
03:51 You never negotiate with terrorists in this manner.
03:55 A lot of people tell me that you were supportive of the idea of an institution between the TTA and the Americans.
04:03 This was my next question.
04:05 There is no doubt about it. Because the Americans, Afghanistan was not the home of the Americans.
04:11 They had to go back to their homes. And they were being treated as a force of occupancy.
04:18 But where will we go? Where will I go leaving this land? Where will you go leaving this land?
04:25 You are taking a fight of this lifestyle and overall society.
04:32 We have 500 kinds of differences between us. But we are agreed on this social order, state structure.
04:39 So you are never supportive of the idea that I should talk to the TTP?
04:42 Not of any terrorist group. Look, we have to determine the principle that who should have the monopoly of violence.
04:52 The idea of nation state or modern nation state, you get the guarantee of security against remaining peaceful and unarmed.
05:03 You remain unarmed as a citizen and the state says that you will take care of the security aspect.
05:09 So you transfer the right to violence to the state. And that monopoly remains with the state.
05:14 For example, if you have a disagreement with the state, even in that case you cannot resort to the tool of violence.
05:22 If you do, it will be an illegitimate concept, an illegal concept, an immoral concept.
05:29 Its permission cannot be given in any case.
05:33 When you use this phrase, you think that the choice of words is better.
05:39 Because you said in the last day that there was a controversy that the Prime Minister is saying that the state has the right to violence.
05:45 From which one aspect is taken that the state can do whatever it wants.
05:48 You are saying that if a city is working, then the monopoly of violence is with the state.
05:56 Then it is taken in some other sense.
05:59 In this sense also, it is an established international principle.
06:03 So you stand by your words. Of course I do. This is an inherent right of any state.
06:08 I am not talking about the state of Pakistan.
06:10 Because of this political science, under the charter of the United Nations,
06:16 the violence for internal order, what does the police do? You give the right to violence.
06:22 In such a situation, you give the right to baton charge. Baton charge is not violence.
06:28 I don't know if violence is the ideal word for this or not.
06:30 But of course it has to be regulated by law and order.
06:34 Why is it necessary to say this?
06:37 When you say state, the state comes under the rule of law and order.
06:42 If you remove all these things, how does the state exist?
06:45 And in your opinion, in today's history, none of these things are violated by the state.
06:49 Why not? It happens in every state.
06:51 It must have happened in our state as well. It happens in different states.
06:54 But despite that, I am emphasizing again and again that first agree on this principle.
06:59 Or as a shareholding company, you give this right to TTP, BLA,
07:06 to some other group, to the army of war. Then it will be an equal contest.
07:12 It will be a chaos.
07:13 Sir, if you understand that even today if someone has the opinion that
07:16 negotiating was ever a good idea, then it is a national misunderstanding.
07:19 So you believe that it was a mistake on a national level or a governmental level.
07:24 A mistake that was committed because we gave state policy.
07:27 I will give you an example.
07:29 The tool of violence and the tool of negotiation are both the discretion of the state.
07:35 It can use both whenever and wherever it wants.
07:38 I do not outrightly ignore it.
07:41 But you negotiate and dialogue at that time or apply it,
07:46 when your end result is that you think that this group has left violence,
07:52 they are fed up, this is their desire, and by showing this magnanimity to the state,
07:59 they should be given another chance in some way.
08:02 They want to return. They have become determined.
08:05 They want to come back.
08:07 Not like this that they are coming back like Alexander the Great,
08:10 like Alexander the Great, like the conquerors.
08:13 When we went to negotiate, they were not surrendering to the next group.
08:16 I am saying the same.
08:18 That is why it was not a good idea.
08:20 Of course, this is what I am trying to explain.
08:22 Tomorrow, this TTP, by rubbing its nose 50,000-30,000 times,
08:27 will say that we are determined, we have committed injustice to ourselves,
08:32 to this society, to this nation.
08:36 Even after that, these people have the right to think about it,
08:40 that they should talk to them, they should not, they should be forgiven,
08:44 they should not. They have this inherent right.
08:47 And by their standards, they have the state.
08:50 [Hassan] Okay. And sir, this Afghan practice that is going on,
08:55 so on this, an opinion, for example, the chair of BTI,
09:00 he has given a lot of references to religion and Sharia.
09:03 He said, this is not his opinion, I am asking generally,
09:07 that sir, we have been hospitable for so many years,
09:11 the way it is being conducted, it should not be that we lose its effects,
09:15 it should not be that we cannot make a place in their hearts,
09:18 and lose respect.
09:20 We have invested so much, we took care of it for 40 years,
09:22 not a single action should be wasted on it.
09:24 [Ghamidi] Look, I do not want to go too deep into that.
09:29 Our prime responsibility is that first we have to take care of the hearts of the Pakistanis,
09:34 how to win their hearts and minds, which you rule constitutionally.
09:39 We do not rule the Afghans.
09:42 The Afghans have been our guests for 40 years, 50 years,
09:47 even today we want, what we are doing right now,
09:50 we are saying that the undocumented aliens should go back to their homes,
09:55 get their travel documents issued from their homes,
09:59 if they want to come back to Pakistan, explain the permit,
10:05 we have not put a perpetual ban on them.
10:09 If someone wants to come here to work, or do business,
10:13 or come here in any other way,
10:16 the way the world is regulated,
10:20 why are we not in the middle?
10:23 What is illegal in this, what is illegal,
10:28 what is wrong, what is hurting people's hearts.
10:31 In any world, when you want to enforce immigration,
10:36 you have to do some challenging work,
10:41 which does not seem humane, but you have to apply the laws.
10:46 [Hassan] We have not mandated the hearts and minds of the people of Afghanistan
10:51 to win the hearts and minds of the Pakistani people.
10:54 [Ghamidi] That is right.
10:57 A political leader has expressed a concern,
11:00 Zardari sir, on a government level,
11:03 did you receive any notice,
11:06 because you raised the question, why are they being so concerned?
11:10 Zardari sir said that in KPK, many Afghan citizens were made voters,
11:15 and now they are affected in the electoral process.
11:18 Did you receive any evidence,
11:21 did you find a reason to believe this?
11:24 I personally believe in this, in Balochistan and KPK,
11:27 and maybe even in Sindh.
11:30 The real issue is that your database,
11:33 Nadra, has forged documents.
11:36 If someone says they are not forged,
11:39 I think they are deceiving themselves.
11:42 Now when you have made forged documents,
11:45 travel documents, passport, ID card,
11:48 all these documents are linked to the voter list.
11:51 How can I presume that they are not in the voter list?
11:54 I have not yet inquired into this in detail,
11:57 as Prime Minister,
12:00 but it is my general understanding,
12:03 that the point that Zardari sir has raised,
12:06 there is weight in this, and it should be looked at.
12:09 And I would request all relevant institutions,
12:12 because you want to make sure that
12:15 your political representation is done by Pakistani nationals.
12:18 This is what the constitution says.
12:21 It does not say that you will bring in 1 million,
12:24 2 million, 3 million aliens,
12:27 and tomorrow they will come from Bengal,
12:30 Iran, or Afghanistan.
12:33 What will be the implications of our entire political structure?
12:36 This is a very serious issue.
12:39 Sir, moving on,
12:42 these conditions of peace and harmony,
12:45 and both the weather,
12:48 I am not forcing that conspiracy theory that the conditions should be bad,
12:51 so that the election is delayed. I am not saying that.
12:54 But there are two facts. One is that the election is announced on 8th,
12:57 and the other is that the conditions are bad in some areas.
13:00 D.I. Khan being the latest example.
13:03 In today's history, what happens tomorrow?
13:06 You do not know, and I do not know.
13:09 You do not say that, but I do not see any obstacle in today's history.
13:12 I do not see any obstacle in today's history.
13:15 Why should I comment on unforeseen things today?
13:20 It is a challenge, as you are saying.
13:23 The courage with which the soldiers were talking,
13:26 and the morale,
13:29 it has jolted me.
13:32 They have surprised me.
13:35 And after that, I have reached the conclusion
13:38 that by the grace of God, we are winning this war.
13:41 It is only a matter of time before we know how long we have to win.
13:44 The people of the lost war are on the other side.
13:47 With so much conviction,
13:50 with so much conviction,
13:53 those people who are actually shooting in the field,
13:56 are shooting,
13:59 when I saw their view,
14:02 what are the intelligentsia and the conservatives saying,
14:05 what are the liberals saying,
14:08 I think all this talk is irrelevant.
14:11 - Okay.
14:14 So, you also think that if,
14:17 despite 10, 12, 15 days, elections are delayed,
14:20 then there will be no end to it?
14:23 - Look, I have no opinion in this.
14:26 Why should I express my opinion?
14:29 Because I am not participating in the elections.
14:32 I have to monitor, conduct.
14:35 So, why should I give an opinion
14:38 whether there is any corruption in it or not.
14:41 Those who want to participate, should give an opinion about it.
14:44 - So, today, we can understand that you will be surprised
14:47 if there are no elections by 8 am.
14:50 - Look, I will tell you again that for me,
14:53 now that you and I are talking,
14:56 my understanding is that there is polling day and time
14:59 for elections.
15:02 And for me, that is the end of the matter.
15:05 - Correct. Election Commissioner Pakistan Zahirab is taking steps in this regard.
15:08 He wrote a letter to the Secretary of the Interior,
15:11 in which he wrote the entire details.
15:14 In short, we need about 3.25 lakh people of the army or paramilitary forces,
15:17 in the form of static and quick response force.
15:20 He also wrote that we should give an answer to this by 7th December,
15:23 so that we can make the arrangements accordingly.
15:26 What is the response of the government on this?
15:29 - Look, this is due diligence.
15:32 There will be exercises on this.
15:35 Forces will be seen from the morning.
15:38 In the case of paramilitary, defense will also be consulted.
15:41 He has already written to the Secretary of Defense.
15:44 And this is an inter-departmental exercise.
15:47 If not 7th, then we will get it on 8th.
15:50 If not 8th, then we will get it by 13th.
15:53 - I am telling you,
15:56 like many people are not able to see the results of the election,
15:59 like many people are not able to see the results of the election,
16:02 then giving an answer to a letter is not a regular obligation.
16:05 then giving an answer to a letter is not a regular obligation.
16:08 Why did you not give an answer on 7th December?
16:11 Obviously, the exercise is being done.
16:14 And we will try to give such an answer,
16:17 which will bring satisfaction to the Election Commission.
16:20 - And sir, is it right that
16:23 when you met a group of merchants from Karachi,
16:26 when you met a group of merchants from Karachi,
16:29 they gave you suggestions,
16:32 that this set-up should be continued.
16:35 Because there was a lot of report in the media
16:38 that the merchants of Karachi made a request to continue this set-up.
16:41 - No, no, no. I did not make any such request.
16:44 You know that we have different social discourses.
16:47 In that, many people, in both the form of
16:50 your description, praise and criticism,
16:53 I think, people sometimes speak in a way that is out of balance.
16:56 I think, people sometimes speak in a way that is out of balance.
16:59 So, that is not a formal request.
17:02 - This individual has said it.
17:05 - You listen from one ear and take it out from the other.
17:08 So, it was not a formal request.
17:11 - By the way, a related question,
17:14 after 56 days, or from today,
17:17 do you feel the atmosphere?
17:20 I am asking your observation.
17:23 - Yes, I feel it.
17:26 - PMLN, Pakistan People's Party,
17:29 JUI, I think, have a lot of serious challenges.
17:32 Especially in South KP,
17:35 in terms of campaign, people coming out,
17:38 their leadership, convincing people.
17:41 Even PTI, in KP,
17:44 they are doing it in many places,
17:47 they are doing their Jalsas, they are doing meetings.
17:50 So, this is the game, slowly,
17:53 as the days come closer, it will be more fun.
17:56 - You talked about PTI, they say that they are not letting it be done in that way.
17:59 They do conventions, police comes.
18:02 - Every party, in opposition,
18:05 they think of themselves, they definitely create such an impression.
18:08 They will do it. But, by and large, I think,
18:11 no one will put restrictions on it legally.
18:14 No announcement will be made on a Jalsa or a meeting.
18:17 There will be restrictions,
18:20 there will be issues of district administration.
18:23 Now, it cannot be translated as a general policy.
18:26 There may be some specific issues in a district,
18:29 we will definitely respond to it.
18:32 - You talked about Moulana Sahib,
18:35 he says that we are not saying that the elections should be delayed,
18:38 but tell us that in some areas, the situation is very bad,
18:41 we should make it a point.
18:44 So, your response to this would be that Moulana Sahib is a political party,
18:47 he is requesting, the Election Commission is the one who is going to conduct the elections,
18:50 he knows, he knows, what should I comment on?
18:53 - See, what should I comment on?
18:56 My primary responsibility is the security challenge,
18:59 for which I went to D.A. Khan today.
19:02 The counter-terrorism operations,
19:05 their deficiencies, their commitments,
19:08 the very serious issues of KP Police,
19:11 should we focus on that,
19:14 or should we focus on the conspiracy theories and speculations
19:17 that are circulating in the media,
19:20 and start responding to them,
19:23 and spend half a day on answering the questions,
19:26 and how to respond to them.
19:29 We are focusing on our actual work,
19:32 and there is no doubt about security,
19:35 in South KP and Balochistan,
19:38 it is a very serious challenge.
19:41 We will try to create a limbling environment,
19:44 where people can participate peacefully in the political process,
19:47 and the electoral process.
19:50 - To end all these doubts, do you think that the Chief Justice gave the right suggestion,
19:53 that there is no debate on this,
19:56 that there is a possibility of election or not,
19:59 but you did not bring it up in the public discourse, that there will be a debate.
20:02 Do you agree?
20:05 - He did not primarily want to stifle discussion,
20:08 he was trying to die down these speculations,
20:11 and this is a sensible thing,
20:14 and a suitable approach.
20:17 Focus on the real work,
20:20 and talk about the actual challenges,
20:23 - Today the Supreme Court of Pakistan has decided,
20:26 that civilians should not be trialled in military courts.
20:29 This was decided by the Supreme Court,
20:32 and then you, the government and the opposition, all went to appeal,
20:35 and the 6th Rukmini bench has announced the decision,
20:38 that as a result, the civilians will be allowed to continue their trial in military courts.
20:41 So do you consider this a victory?
20:44 - I consider this a victory of principle.
20:47 I think that this is a principle,
20:50 and this has been established as a principle,
20:53 and this is very good.
20:56 Otherwise, the erosion that was going to happen,
20:59 of the different state institutions,
21:02 its implications were unfathomable.
21:05 It was beyond imagination.
21:08 I am grateful to the Supreme Court,
21:11 that they saw that perspective, understood it,
21:14 understood it, appreciated it,
21:17 and enunciated on it, and expressed their views on it.
21:20 I think it is very important for social order.
21:23 I keep on mentioning social order.
21:26 There are some institutions,
21:29 that guarantee social order.
21:32 And if you go towards leniency,
21:35 vis-a-vis those institutions,
21:38 by challenging them, and the laws are so soft,
21:41 that whoever wants to do it, can do it.
21:44 And the external players,
21:47 hostile states,
21:50 their implications are there,
21:53 and potential is there,
21:56 that they can also take advantage of it.
21:59 So I think, the existence of state,
22:02 and the structure of social order,
22:05 is a threat to its existence.
22:08 - Sir, very clear about it, that the case of the 9th May's
22:11 attack on the military installations,
22:14 those who, for example,
22:17 stood outside the Parliament building,
22:20 outside the Supreme Court building,
22:23 and raised the play card, and were shouting slogans,
22:26 should not be allowed to go on.
22:29 - The one who threw the stone there, should be asked.
22:32 - The one who threw the stone at the Supreme Court,
22:35 and at the Parliament, should not be allowed to go on in the military court.
22:38 When you are at the home of the Corps Commander,
22:41 when you are at the GHQ, when you are at the office of the SPD,
22:44 when you are at the office of ISI,
22:47 when you are physically an attacker,
22:50 then where should we file a case in the Indian Supreme Court?
22:53 - The other argument is that I filed a case in the Pakistani court,
22:56 but in the Civilian courts. - Why?
22:59 You don't protest in front of the Civilian courts.
23:02 - Then let's see the Civilian courts. - You do it there.
23:05 In front of the Parliament, throwing stones at the Parliament is as big a crime
23:09 as throwing stones at the GHQ,
23:12 as throwing stones at the Supreme Court building.
23:15 But as a result of this crime,
23:18 I don't think they should be sent to the military court.
23:21 For that, the existing Civil Court structure is there.
23:24 The existing criminal justice system should pursue it.
23:27 But when you are specific,
23:30 and intentionally attack the military installations,
23:33 then why someone expects
23:36 that their trials should not be in those courts?
23:39 Why not?
23:42 Same goes for the mastermind of this attack, whoever he is.
23:45 - Look, - He also has to go to the military court.
23:48 Look, whether it is a foot soldier, mastermind, manager,
23:51 I am not interested in that categorization.
23:54 - Whatever is related to this. - I am interested in this principle that it should be.
23:57 And sir, are you clear about this too that
24:00 the mastermind of this attack is the chairman of PTI?
24:03 - Look, this is my job. - Or is it not clear about this?
24:06 I am clear that this is not my job.
24:09 I am not the head of any investigative body,
24:12 nor am I its pillar, whose responsibility it is
24:15 to establish who is its mastermind.
24:18 That is why you have investigative agencies.
24:21 This is their job.
24:24 And when they will prosecute him and bring him,
24:27 the role of the judiciary will be that they will go to his judgment,
24:30 will look at that investigation,
24:33 and will reach a judicial conclusion in that.
24:36 And then, under that result, the justice system will be established.
24:39 It will be found out who he was, whether he was there or not.
24:42 This is not my job.
24:45 And sir, another crime against the former Prime Minister has also been registered in another case.
24:48 Do you have any opinion about this that a sensitive document like Cipher
24:51 was used for its political point scoring?
24:54 Do you have any doubt about it?
24:57 Or are you clear about it?
25:00 No, I don't think there is any doubt about it.
25:03 They have publicly said that this is a part of Cipher.
25:06 And under that, some allegations were made.
25:09 And of course, they generated their political narrative around that.
25:12 Should it be used?
25:15 My answer is no. Of course, it should not be used.
25:18 Okay. Just a quick question.
25:21 And then I will ask a few questions regarding privatization.
25:24 Nawaz Sharif Sahib says today,
25:27 obviously, it is his own matter, his own opinion,
25:30 if you want to give your opinion on it,
25:33 that I have not come back to take revenge,
25:36 but the responsibilities should be set, the way our government was overthrown and everything.
25:39 Do you think that he was a victim of political engineering,
25:42 and some people of that time, let it be Bajwa Sahib or Faisal Sahib, were a part of it?
25:45 Look, we have a very tight political history.
25:48 If anyone denies it, then
25:51 the political history of Pakistan,
25:54 it is not two years, three years or four years.
25:57 It is four years in it.
26:00 If we have to learn lessons and really learn,
26:03 then we should start from 14th August 1947.
26:06 And see where and with whom, what mistakes were made.
26:09 And determine.
26:12 It will not be a non-negotiable thing.
26:15 You are saying if you have to do it, then start from the first day.
26:18 If you have to learn lessons,
26:21 if you have to pass judgments in court,
26:24 and not convict people,
26:27 and you want national lessons to be learned,
26:30 then to bring national lessons in that discourse,
26:33 then you should look at the whole political life,
26:36 that where did we start in the journey of constitutionalism,
26:39 where did the obstacles come,
26:42 what were the reasons for them.
26:45 There are always two versions in that.
26:48 Someone accuses civil bureaucracy in the beginning,
26:51 later it goes to military bureaucracy.
26:54 Some people have a view that it is due to political incompetence,
26:57 or due to the incompetence of the politicians.
27:00 These are three or four arguments of yours,
27:03 and you should have a national dialogue around it.
27:06 And the lessons to be learned,
27:09 and the first phase of that will come.
27:12 Have a dialogue on all these.
27:15 - Some of your ministers,
27:18 I will mention Mr. Bukti, he is a good friend of ours,
27:21 they have been very vocal about it.
27:24 They have said that Imran Khan is the system's favorite,
27:27 he was brought to power to bring him.
27:30 Do you think that such statements provide a reason,
27:33 that the setting minister is saying that this setup is against us.
27:36 I am not saying that a statement of one person,
27:39 should be denied by the entire government.
27:42 But do you think that they can be avoided?
27:45 - Look, even this is the beauty of democracy,
27:48 that the cabinet can have different opinions,
27:51 but the decision is the same.
27:54 So this is their opinion, which they have expressed,
27:57 but it is not a cabinet decision, which should be unified.
28:00 - What is your opinion, Mr. Bukti?
28:03 - I think the viewers should decide.
28:06 - You have said very categorically,
28:09 about PIA and other parties, that they should be privatized.
28:12 You have talked very detailed.
28:15 The question is, how much time do you have in Pakistan,
28:18 the time it takes in the procedure,
28:21 if the election is held after 55-56 days,
28:24 then you can take a big entity, let's say PIA,
28:27 will you be able to privatize it, despite the willingness?
28:30 - Look, when we have 56 hours left,
28:33 we will still do the same work, as we have 56 years.
28:36 - Okay. - In terms of our commitment.
28:39 The thing is, whether we can do it in this short stint or not,
28:42 if we live under this threat and fear,
28:45 then we cannot even initiate the work.
28:48 We will stop here. - So you will keep trying and then let's see.
28:51 - We will keep trying and we will do the pragmatic,
28:54 concrete steps to realize the process,
28:57 we will do that.
29:00 After that, God forbid, the government and state
29:03 will not be finished. A new government will be formed,
29:06 this work will be done, it will be handed over to them.
29:09 Our effort will be to reach this level,
29:12 to reverse it, so that it is not so easy for them,
29:15 even if someone wants to. - Okay.
29:18 If I ask you, I am talking about the military establishment,
29:21 your working relationship with it,
29:24 you would call it ideal? - Excellent.
29:27 - Another pillar of the state, the presidency, the president's house,
29:30 your working relationship with the President of Pakistan,
29:33 you would call it ideal? - Very good.
29:36 - Do you feel threatened that they use their position politically?
29:39 - Look, he is primarily a politician.
29:44 He has been a member of the National Assembly,
29:47 he has been an official of the Executive Committee,
29:50 so to say that he has no political concern,
29:53 or no political opinion,
29:56 would be a little unrealistic.
29:59 In that position, how much influence does that political opinion have
30:02 on their decisions,
30:05 how much does it not affect,
30:08 this needs to be examined and seen.
30:11 As far as I understand,
30:14 the government needs us in that position,
30:17 and the relationship, especially on state affairs,
30:20 we have got that,
30:23 we do not face any major obstacles.
30:26 - Largely it has been fair.
30:29 - I think he is a decent individual,
30:32 he is an educated man,
30:35 and he loves Pakistan.
30:38 And intentionally I have not seen anything
30:41 that he would not have
30:44 wanted to do more,
30:47 or to spoil the working relationship.
30:50 - Moving on, as a nation,
30:53 we have unfortunately very few options that give us a chance to be happy.
30:56 Pakistan is a super league,
30:59 if you think about the PSL, it is one of them,
31:02 the whole nation is involved.
31:05 Today when I am talking to you, it has been drafted.
31:08 You have issued a directive that the PSL should be held in Pakistan,
31:11 and it will be held in Lahore, and in Karachi.
31:14 Is there any clarity on this?
31:17 - Yes, I had a meeting with the PCP yesterday,
31:20 and not only in the PSL,
31:23 I think our cricket should be diversified.
31:26 By diversification I mean,
31:29 I have repeatedly faced the criticism,
31:32 that cricket should be taken out of Lahore and Karachi.
31:35 This is not only for Lahore and Karachi.
31:38 It should be horizontal and spread across the country.
31:41 In Gilgit-Baltistan,
31:44 Nagar has such a beautiful cricket ground,
31:47 and I was in so much pain,
31:50 that why was it not thought of earlier,
31:53 why can't we have international matches there?
31:56 On the other hand, there is Gwadar,
31:59 if you look at its landscape, its cricket stadium,
32:02 it is probably one of the beautiful,
32:05 these are both corners of your country.
32:08 Along with that, there are stadiums in Peshawar,
32:11 and in Quetta.
32:14 As you take cricket to these areas,
32:17 spread out, participation of people will increase,
32:20 already there is, involvement will increase,
32:23 participation will increase, and this national frenzy
32:26 around the sports you see,
32:29 this will be channelized,
32:32 dividends will start to be distributed.
32:35 You can link tourism with it and trigger it,
32:38 you can generate economic activity there,
32:41 talent hunt can be more there.
32:44 So we have given instructions to PCB,
32:47 to develop partnerships, we have told them to be creative,
32:50 for soft image, sports,
32:53 you see GCC,
32:56 football there,
32:59 they are not playing in a prominent style,
33:02 they have brought event management with them,
33:05 and they are showcasing it at a global scale.
33:08 Qatar has hosted the World Cup,
33:11 Saudi Arabia is hosting that,
33:14 and why we should have such partnerships with them,
33:17 with different regions,
33:20 with Australia,
33:23 with UK, and other cricketing nations,
33:26 we can develop, design,
33:29 and give a new level of strategic direction.
33:32 We can discuss all these things.
33:35 Sir, when they are hosting the World Cup in their countries,
33:38 or the cricket World Cup in India,
33:41 we hope that at least Pakistan Zubrilli,
33:44 which is named after Pakistan,
33:47 it is a Pakistani brand,
33:50 it will be in Pakistan next season.
33:53 Towards the end, one last issue,
33:56 this issue of Palestine, Gaza,
33:59 tell us about your tweet,
34:02 that two state solution is the solution,
34:05 so you are saying that two states are the solution,
34:08 for Israelis, the land of Israel,
34:11 for Palestinians, the land of Palestine.
34:14 Look, I am not saying this,
34:17 neither is Pakistan saying this, the whole world is saying this.
34:20 We have been given a new suggestion.
34:23 The world is saying this, so what is your opinion?
34:26 Look, the way you are talking about the children,
34:29 the way the children are being cut,
34:32 the women are being cut,
34:35 the old are being cut,
34:38 tell us what the solution is.
34:41 Can one state get the solution?
34:44 Are there only Arab Muslims,
34:47 who have no problem with the government,
34:50 who have a practical suggestion on this,
34:53 in the form of fighting, in the form of conversation,
34:56 or in any other form, bring it forward.
34:59 Just the rhetoric,
35:02 I think we are being very unfair with those martyrs.
35:05 You ask the Palestinians what they want,
35:08 am I a Palestinian, or are you a Palestinian,
35:11 or are the Palestinians who are holding the conference?
35:14 The Palestinians have to decide how they want to live with the Jews and the Israelis,
35:19 what principles they want to follow.
35:22 Do they want to accept each other's existence or not?
35:25 We are neighbors,
35:28 we are not a part of them.
35:31 The effects of that are not killing the child of Anwar,
35:34 the child of Badami is not being killed.
35:37 The children of those who are holding the conference are not being martyred.
35:40 The children of those who are being martyred,
35:43 the first right is theirs, ask them what they want.
35:46 Is Hamas their representative?
35:49 The decision will be made by the Palestinians, not by you and me.
35:52 They have already elected Hamas in Gaza,
35:55 Hamas says Israel is not needed.
35:58 Look, it is not needed, but it should be discussed.
36:01 If they have another representation,
36:04 if there is a position of that representation,
36:07 then it should be pushed.
36:10 The way we are proposing this, it is not an effective approach.
36:13 When the whole world, under the Oslo Accords,
36:16 on one side was Yasser Arafat and on the other side was Zakir Abin,
36:22 then there was a talk of two state solutions,
36:25 and it got more or less the support of the Arab world and the Islamic world.
36:31 There was support from the Palestinians,
36:33 but there was no criticism from the Palestinians about Yasser Arafat.
36:36 I am careful that every Palestinian is important for me.
36:42 Every faction is important.
36:45 This right should also be given to the Palestinians,
36:48 that who is their representative organization.
36:52 I or the people outside cannot impose it on them.
36:55 In today's history, there is Hamas, there is Hamas and there is PLO.
36:58 These are two big representative entities.
37:01 And these two say, at least Hamas is very clear that Israel is not needed.
37:04 PLO is not needed.
37:06 This is their work, this is their position.
37:11 This conversation is going on all over the Islamic world.
37:14 So, targeting only one government on this basis is a very complicated and big problem.
37:24 It is not that simple.
37:26 We should not adopt a separate position on the platform of the Islamic world,
37:35 on the platform of the OIC.
37:39 We should support the majority view of the Islamic world.
37:44 We should try to bring peace there.
37:47 And the right to life of the Palestinians should be established first.
37:51 Sir, when we initiated this proposal,
37:54 it is a debate, in which your opinion should also be accepted.
37:57 When we support Israel, then in a way we are not accepting the existence of Israel.
38:02 And we are not opposing the statement of the Qaid-e-Azam,
38:05 in which he says that Israel is an illegitimate child of America.
38:08 And it should not be against its existence.
38:10 Are we not going against it?
38:12 Look, many people give reference to this.
38:16 Politics is the name of do-able and the name of achievable.
38:23 The fundamental difference between the Prophet and the Messenger of Allah
38:31 is that the revelation that has been given to them cannot be changed.
38:37 But all the political leaders, social thinkers who have come from other religions,
38:46 they think and think about the circumstances of the future.
38:53 And if there is a need for constructive input, a need for change,
38:57 then it can be brought and it can come.
39:00 There is no restriction on the Qaid-e-Azam's position to change.
39:04 If the parliament of Pakistan, all the political parties of Pakistan,
39:09 think about this principle of renaissance, the intelligence of Pakistan,
39:13 and if they reach the conclusion of Qaid-e-Azam,
39:17 and if they reach the conclusion of Qaid-e-Azam,
39:20 then it does not come under the category of Kufr.
39:22 It can happen. It should happen or not, there should be a debate on this.
39:26 [Hassan Ilyas] Last question, sir.
39:27 In the same conference, Ismail Haniya says that the biggest enemy of Muslims in the world is the Jews.
39:32 Pakistan is a strong country.
39:34 If Pakistan threatens Israel, the war can stop.
39:36 There are high hopes from Pakistan that it will force Israel to retreat.
39:40 On this statement, what is the opinion of the head of the government of Pakistan?
39:43 [Ghamidi] Look, I will tell you again that the 24 crore Pakistanis,
39:50 what is their interest?
39:52 Any Pakistani government should think about this first.
39:55 And after that, the way our Muslim brothers and sisters are being treated,
40:02 the way they are being treated, the way they are being treated,
40:05 the way they are being treated, there is no doubt that this government is doing this.
40:10 Under this, what steps should be taken, what will be the results of those steps,
40:17 for Pakistan, for the region, for the entire Islamic world.
40:22 This should be done through a process of discussion,
40:25 because this is close to the practice of Sunnah.
40:28 If you are flouting this practice of Sunnah,
40:32 and you come and take a position on the request of a person,
40:36 then it should not be that you regret taking that position in the future.
40:41 So, I think that the practice of discussion will come in the form of parliament.
40:47 Let them discuss this, and if they want to threaten, fight, or have a discussion,
40:53 then let the decision be made there.
40:55 Honorable Prime Minister, thank you very much for your time.
40:57 Thank you.