In an exclusive interview with Khaleej Times, Kariuki Mugwe, Kenya’s Ambassador to the UAE discusses the effects of climate crisis on an agrarian country like South Africa, how to overcome these challenges and his high hopes for the outcome of COP28.
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00:00 Thank you for allowing us to have this interview with you, Your Excellency, and welcome to
00:05 the Road to Net Zero with Khalid Stimes.
00:08 Your Excellency, the Global South faces a lot of challenges, the climate change.
00:14 What do you have in mind?
00:15 What are the challenges?
00:17 What is there to tell the people?
00:19 You know, what can we do about these challenges?
00:21 Do you think these challenges can be, you know, perhaps addressed at COP28 with some
00:30 tangible outcomes?
00:31 Yes, there are quite a number of challenges facing the Global South, and more specifically
00:39 to the African continent.
00:42 We in Kenya have experienced serious climate crisis because of the devastating effects
00:53 of whatever is happening currently.
00:57 Last year, we experienced for the last 40 years the worst drought.
01:02 And as you know, us in Africa mostly do agriculture.
01:10 And if there is no rain at all, just because of the climate effects, then it affects quite
01:17 a lot of things.
01:19 People go hungry, animals die, and people become more impoverished.
01:27 So the challenges are there, and climate change crisis is real.
01:33 Something needs to be done about it.
01:35 We in Africa, actually about last month, on the 4th or the 6th of September, we hosted
01:43 the first Africa Climate Summit 2023, which was being organized by the African Union.
01:53 And we tried to put our minds together as the African continent to see how best we can
02:00 be able to overcome this crisis.
02:03 And overcoming it is by looking at how best all of us can be able to work towards the
02:10 UN SDGs to bring down the climate levels to 1.5 degrees Celsius.
02:20 And there was a huge declaration on how we should do it, and almost everybody accepted
02:26 that this is a crisis that actually needs to be addressed by every continent, every
02:32 person on the planet Earth.
02:36 And therefore, when it happened, we were very happy to even host the UAE delegation led
02:43 by His Excellency Dr. Sultan Najjarber, who is also the COP 28 President-designate.
02:51 And he's coming with his big delegation consisting of another two ministers, one minister for
02:59 youth and the other minister for climate and environment.
03:03 It was a way of showing that whatever is going to happen for COP 28 is definitely going to
03:11 be different because according to Dr. Sultan, there is a lot to be looked at in terms of
03:19 inclusivity, in terms of equity, in terms of funding, which the Global South has been
03:26 mostly affected by not being included, by not being given the proper share of their
03:33 contribution towards solutions to climate change.
03:37 And also in terms of the financing aspects, which impact heavily on not being able to
03:44 mitigate against these challenges.
03:47 Dr. Sultan, attending at Your Excellency, it showed commitment of the UAE and shows
03:55 to what degree the UAE actually wants tangible outcomes in this COP 28.
04:03 What is your aspirations?
04:05 What would be a tangible outcome for Kenya, for the African continent in terms of perhaps,
04:11 you know, let's say, let's start with inclusivity.
04:15 Let's start with the financing aspect of it.
04:18 Let's start with even groundwork.
04:21 You know, you have been affected.
04:24 You already told us to what degree Kenya, you know, heavily depends on the agricultural
04:31 sector and it was affected by the droughts.
04:35 So maybe, you know, what kind of projects are you looking towards?
04:40 What are the things that would do that change or would prove the commitment through the
04:45 change?
04:46 The visit by His Excellency Dr. Sultan to us as a country felt like it's going to be
04:53 different.
04:54 He sought for our support at not only the national level, but also at the continental
04:59 level.
05:01 And the declaration that was done was that we need to support Dr. Sultan.
05:06 And because of the things he wants to bring on the table during this COP 28 summit, we
05:12 felt like it's going to be different from the others where we felt that the previous
05:19 COP 20, up to 27, have been something that is discussed and then it's not implemented.
05:28 So with his words of inclusivity and making sure the outcomes are implemented, we strongly
05:37 feel that he needs our support so that he can change the dynamics, he can change the
05:43 way the world is looking at climate change by making sure that everybody contributes
05:49 to the best solutions to overcome this crisis.
05:53 I can tell you for sure there was commitment, there were pledges to the tune of about $26
06:01 billion for mitigation and climate investments.
06:07 And UAE as a country, actually, out of that $26 billion, pledged about $4.5 billion in
06:16 transition, adaptation, and investment in renewables.
06:23 Kenya is one country that is really working very well towards the achievement of the 2030
06:29 UN SDGs, where I can tell you that over 90% of our energy generation is actually on renewables.
06:43 We have a milestone by itself.
06:45 Absolutely, absolutely.
06:46 It is a milestone.
06:48 And we thought maybe we'll achieve 100% target by 2030, as per the UN SDGs, but we've brought
06:58 it forward to 2028, that we should be able to achieve the 100% renewable target two years
07:07 earlier.
07:08 Our president is very passionate about this matter and he's actually committed also in
07:14 terms of greening the world of planting 15 billion trees in 10 years.
07:22 In 10 years.
07:23 In 10 years.
07:25 And I can tell you for sure, looking at the way he is dynamic and pragmatic in looking
07:33 at climate change and how it's affecting everybody, the rich and the poor, we need to support
07:40 this idea.
07:41 And with the drought, your excellency, do you think that it's possible to reach that
07:45 number?
07:46 It is.
07:47 It is possible.
07:48 It is, I can tell you, it is possible.
07:50 But it requires the concerted effort of everyone.
07:55 So a consensus, a collaboration.
07:58 Exactly, exactly.
07:59 One country alone cannot be able to achieve it.
08:02 But if you put all our heads together, if you put all our discussions and solutions
08:08 together, and if we do that and commit to implementing what we have decided to do, for
08:14 sure it is achievable.
08:16 You think the private sector plays a fair share, you know, in terms of perhaps assuring
08:25 that something is done in terms of climate mitigation?
08:30 The private sector has not been very strong, a strong player previously.
08:35 And that's why Dr. Sultan is talking about inclusivity, making sure that no one is left
08:40 behind, you know, from the rich to the poor, from the indigenous communities, from the
08:48 poor countries, the rich countries.
08:51 Everybody should be on the table because we are all affected.
08:54 And therefore, if we are able to put everybody's mind onto the issues that are facing us as
09:04 a planet, for sure a solution should be available.
09:09 Your Excellency, do you think there is awareness now, or do you think that awareness has to
09:14 also reach certain, perhaps, people within the society?
09:20 Or, you know, do people comprehend the degree of what's happening?
09:27 Absolutely, they do.
09:29 Everybody is.
09:30 Before we came here, I told you of a story when I was growing up.
09:35 You know, I was a young man growing in the Rulo village.
09:39 Our small stream, which used to flow through our land, which we were farming, used to have
09:49 fish, used to have tadpoles, used to have all kinds of animals and birds around, you
09:58 know, operating around the waters.
10:01 But currently, you pass there, 60 years down the line, and the river is non-existent.
10:09 You know, you cannot say that this is not affecting people.
10:14 It is really affecting people because 50 or 60 years ago, the world is not the same just
10:21 because of what is happening currently.
10:24 What we don't know is how do we make the people who are polluting most should be able to understand
10:34 that this thing of climate crisis is affecting everybody, and therefore they should change
10:39 their way of doing things.
10:41 Your Excellency, do you think regardless of perhaps international geopolitical differences,
10:48 you know, still we'll have an outcome from this COP?
10:51 I believe they should.
10:53 They should have a way of looking at things unlike before so that the outcomes are favorable
11:02 to everybody, are favorable to whatever everybody is facing.
11:08 And if anyone thinks that it is not going to go by what is expected of them, then it
11:15 will affect them and affect the rest of the world.
11:19 Humanity in general.
11:20 Exactly.
11:21 Your Excellency, has there been, let's say, some groundwork and collaboration between
11:27 the UAE and Kenya in terms of perhaps renewable energy projects in Kenya itself?
11:35 Yes, there has been.
11:36 As you speak, there is an MOU, a Moranda Move Understanding, in investments towards geothermal
11:47 development.
11:48 Kenya is among the top ten countries globally who have reserves of geothermal ready to be
11:59 exploited.
12:00 And as late as two months ago, there started discussions on how Mazda, a renewable company
12:11 in the UAE, will be able to go to Kenya and start developing renewable energy through
12:18 geothermal.
12:20 What do you think of the relationship with the UAE?
12:22 Do you think?
12:23 It's quite good.
12:25 The relationship between Kenya and UAE is quite warm, quite cordial.
12:31 And I can tell you for sure, it didn't start yesterday.
12:35 Kenya and UAE started the relationship way back in the 80s.
12:38 I saw the pictures.
12:39 And I showed you the picture of His Highness Sheikh Zayed.
12:44 May God have mercy on him.
12:47 When he actually went to Nairobi, went to Masai Mara, he went to Lake Bogoria in 1984,
12:57 and he was impressed that those geothermal reserves, he could be able to taste that salty
13:04 hot water that was coming from the hot springs in Kenya.
13:10 And ever since that time, the relations have been growing quite broadly and deeply.
13:18 And we are still on it, trying to make it even better.
13:21 In fact, we're in the process currently of signing the CEPA agreement, the Comprehensive
13:28 Economic Partnership Agreement.
13:30 But even if it has not been signed right now, already in existence is close to about 15
13:38 instruments of cooperation that have already been signed between Kenya and UAE.
13:43 And we are looking forward to also having the fourth round of our JCC, where we have
13:49 aligned close to a similar number of instruments of cooperation ready for signing.
13:55 So it's a very deep-rooted relationship.
13:59 It's a very old relationship.
14:01 And it is of importance, of course, to both our leadership, our people.
14:06 Your Excellency, is there anything that perhaps you would like to share with us, you would
14:09 like to share with the people?
14:11 Is there any kind of advice?
14:13 Is there anything you would like to say through our show?
14:16 I'm happy that Khaleej Times is doing a commendable job by actually picking up these kind of interviews.
14:23 They are able to disseminate information of countries on the way they are looking forward
14:31 to the COP28, and also showcase what countries have to offer during the COP28.
14:40 It's also important for you to know also that media houses play a crucial role in terms
14:47 of making people to meet connections, people to people connections.
14:53 Yes.
14:54 And also show how each country has in terms of opportunities and investment.
15:01 Thank you, Your Excellency.
15:02 Thank you so much.
15:03 Thank you.
15:04 Thank you.
15:05 [BLANK_AUDIO]