The Zoram People's Movement (ZPM) achieved a remarkable victory, securing 27 seats in the 40-member Assembly and overthrowing the incumbent Mizo National Front (MNF). The Mizoram elections featured a three-way battle among the MNF, ZPM, and Congress, competing in all 40 constituencies, while the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) contested 23 seats. Despite exit polls favoring the MNF, the ZPM's triumph marked a significant electoral surprise. Two out of three pollsters predicted MNF's advantage, acknowledging ZPM's competitive position. The outcome underscores the dynamic nature of Mizoram's political landscape.
MizoramElections #ElectionResults #AssemblyElections2023 #Mizoram2023 #LiveCounting #Mizoram
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MizoramElections #ElectionResults #AssemblyElections2023 #Mizoram2023 #LiveCounting #Mizoram
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NewsTranscript
00:00 Hello and welcome. You're watching One India News. My name is Pankaj Bishra and this is
00:05 the Election Central. Remember, remember, when the election dates were announced for
00:11 the five states across the country, we came live to you telling you all the scenarios
00:17 and the first state to go to polls was Mizoram and along with Mizoram were the 20 seats of
00:27 Chhattisgarh. Now, cut to December 4th. We are here back with you. As of now, the scenario
00:36 in Mizoram is concerned. We are with you to tell you the figures and look at it. Look
00:42 at it. What an unexpected result. What we saw yesterday, a hat trick from the BJP. Today,
00:49 MNF, a name which is synonymous to Mizoram, Mizo National Front has been dislodged by
01:00 none other than ZPM. Many would say it was a new kid on the block. How come this happened
01:07 that a new political entity like Tipra Motha in Tripura, they also performed very well
01:13 in the recently concluded elections in December of 2022. And now cut to December of 2023.
01:21 We have another upset for MNF in the northeastern part of the country. ZPM is leading as of
01:29 now on 26 seats in Mizoram. MNF, the ruling party of Zoram Thanga is leading only at 10.
01:38 Congress on one BJP on three BJP has made its mark in North-East, no doubt about it.
01:44 Congress was hoping to ride on the anti-BJP sentiments, fuelled by the fact of what happened
01:51 in the neighbouring state of Mizoram, that is Manipur, the violence that erupted there.
01:58 That was something that Congress was hoping to ride on. But it looks like the BJP once
02:04 again has taken the wind out of the sails as far as the Congress is concerned. But hats
02:10 off to ZPM, which has by all means, by all means, created history. And for ZPM, definitely
02:21 Zoram Thanga was a tough challenge, stiff challenge. There were lots of issues also.
02:27 We would be joined by guests who will be discussing that what exactly was it that Mizoram needed?
02:32 Why a sudden change in the governance? And November 7th was the time when the first assembly
02:42 elections happened. The first state that went to post that was Mizoram and December 4th
02:49 is today when the results are out, obviously. The elections were led by Mizo National Front
02:57 in 2018, Zoram Thanga as the chief minister. And Mizoram has actually 40 lakh voters, 4
03:04 million voters is what they decided to compare it to say, Rajasthan for that matter, where
03:09 there are roughly 5.25 crore voters. I mean, this number looks very small. But politically,
03:17 strategically, the state of Mizoram, very important with the proximity with Myanmar,
03:22 with the proximity with Mizoram, which are border states. So obviously, it makes a lot
03:28 more sense to have a very decisive government, not, I would say, you know, something which
03:36 would be presenting a scenario of an hung assembly and Mizoram has chosen this time
03:41 around. They have given the verdict to ZPM. And the news that is coming in Mizoram Deputy
03:48 CM Thaung Lui has lost to ZMP candidate in Thuichang seat. This is the upset for MNF
03:59 again. Zoram People's Movement, ZPM, claims first victory in Thuichang defeating incumbent
04:06 Mizoram National Front MLA. So these are some of the updates that are coming in as of now.
04:13 And as far as the whole scenario of Mizoram is concerned, if you take a look at it, the
04:18 issue of tribals, the issue of Christian, which are a minority in that state, but their
04:25 rights connectivity with the Northeast, that is something that the state has been demanding
04:29 education, infrastructure. Basically, when talking about Northeast, you might feel that
04:35 the issues are same for you know, a person sitting in a metropolitan state or other part
04:40 of the country, be it Central India, South India. But Northeast presents a very peculiar
04:46 case here because first of all, the distance at times between the centre, which is Delhi
04:53 to Mizoram or Northeast often translates to the fact that the government has lost sight
05:00 of Northeast. But this government, BJP government, when I remember Prime Minister Modi 2014 came
05:05 into power, and he took oath, the very first minister who was assigned, who was the portfolio
05:12 that was decided, was that of connectivity with Northeast and observer for Northeast
05:18 was first of all appointed. So that was the kind of attention the BJP government chose
05:24 to give to Northeast. And we have seen barring what happened in Manipur and the stoic silence
05:32 from the government side as many opposition members have time and again spoken. It is
05:40 important to note that the as well as the connectivity with the Northeastern state,
05:46 the development of infrastructure in Northeastern states is concerned so that the students don't
05:51 have to come out of the state to pursue higher education or job opportunities in other parts
05:57 of the country. You would see I mean, we are here in Delhi NCR region and Delhi University
06:05 is one among the many universities in the central and southern part of the country,
06:11 where many Northeastern students come and study higher studies also, they come here
06:16 for job opportunities as well. But there has been an increasing trend also with specific
06:24 and certain media outlets now finding their headquarters and operating from the Northeast
06:30 itself has in a way given more Philip to the voices asking for more support, asking for
06:38 attention to the Northeastern areas and coupled with government's initiatives. I think it's
06:44 a winds of change that is sweeping across all the Northeastern states and Mizoram being
06:49 one of them. Very interesting, you know, factors to note here that MNF still managing to get
06:56 to just 10 seats, ZPM leading at 26, which is now right in on the board, we can call
07:02 it now because it's already three and a half or four hours of counting 40 seats or went
07:09 to polls doesn't take much time when the EVMs are being used. And so is the case in Mizoram
07:16 also. So halfway mark was 21 ZPM is well past that comfortable majority there, Congress
07:24 one seat and BJP three. MNF, Mizoram National Front, Zoram Thanga, a man who needs no introduction,
07:31 he has been a rock solid guy. When it comes to the affairs of the state. Remember, when
07:40 the Manipur incident was at its peak and NBN Singh, chief minister, was not able to stop
07:50 the cookie movement of migration from Manipur to Mizoram and cookie sentiments obviously
07:59 found refuge also in Mizoram. So Zoram Thanga wrote a letter and he said that NBN Singh
08:06 should rather be taking charge and he should not indulge. It was what Zoram Thanga put
08:12 in that letter, not indulge in any sort of divisive or threatening stance, which he claimed
08:21 that the reason it was behind the migration of the cookie migrants from Manipur to Mizoram.
08:30 Mizoram has also been accepting a lot of migrants from Myanmar as well. And this cross border
08:38 movement of people has not been an easy affair, but Zoram Thanga was open enough to accept
08:46 them to give them refuge, wait for the fires and embers to die down in Manipur, and then
08:52 possibly if they want to go back, they could go back. So this also was one of the key election
08:58 issues in Mizoram when it comes to whether people were happy with the influx of migrants
09:05 from Myanmar or not. We have had incidents in the past as well where people from all
09:11 the way from Myanmar had crossed into India because of the social and civil unrest there.
09:20 And now with the advent of ZBM, it remains to be seen whether it is going to continue
09:28 with the same helping approach as Zoram Thanga did or would there be a change in the stance.
09:36 Very interesting aspect of Mizoram elections. Aizawl, again ZBM, it has done well being
09:52 ahead of MNF. A lot of critical issues also if you talk about how the state has seen and
10:03 weighed in these elections. Zoram Thanga, he was trailing when the last reports came
10:09 in and we'll just give you the numbers as of now. Dr. Van Lathalaan, ZBM candidate from
10:20 Aizawl North 2, he is saying that people have shown their mandate. They have talked to the
10:26 people again and again and shouted that Mizoram needs a change. Van Lathaan, ZBM candidate
10:37 from Aizawl North 2, very soon will be bringing to his soundbite also. News Agency ANI has
10:43 provided that. Also, in the days and months to come for Mizoram, as we head towards the
10:53 2024 elections, the whole focus on North-East, how does the state respond to this wave of
11:00 the BJP we saw in the three states of Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan and Chhattisgarh, how the
11:06 BJP made a hat-trick. Prime Minister Modi yesterday speaking at the BJP headquarters
11:11 addressing the BJP cadre said that this is not just the hat-trick in these assembly elections,
11:18 but also it's an indication of a hat-trick for 2024. How significant it is for the North-East
11:26 would be very soon discussing it with a panel of guests who will be joining us momentarily.
11:34 The latest that we are hearing from Mizoram is that ZBM's CM candidate, Lallu Homa, he
11:44 has been the frontrunner. Lallu Homa was a vocal critique of Zoram Thang and his policies
11:54 and he fought on the very Zoram people movement. Again, if you look at the North-Eastern regions,
12:01 be it Tripura, where the demand of a separate Tipra land has been going on for a long time.
12:08 Tripura is the party which was the proponent for it. Likewise, ZBM's Zoram people's movement,
12:18 the presidential candidate, Lallu Homa, a former IPS officer, first MP to be disqualified
12:25 under anti-deflection law. He accused MNF of attempting to monopolise the Zo-unification
12:34 issue and all political parties and other organisations are equally concerned about
12:39 the displaced cookies and that all of us, this is what Lallu Homa said, all of us seek
12:45 a singular administration which is permissible under the Article 3 of the Constitution. Very
12:51 interesting insights and needless to say, we have to wait and watch how does the penultimate
13:02 elections of Lok Sabha elections transpire. All right, we are joined by Hriyata Shantay,
13:10 advocate and social activist. Thank you so much, Mr. Shantay for speaking to us. I hope
13:15 I am pronouncing your name correctly. Hriyata Shantay.
13:19 That is good enough, fair enough.
13:21 Fair enough. Needless to say, before we start, Mr. Shantay, Hriyata, it makes a very distinct
13:28 sound. What does it mean, Hriyata?
13:31 Hriyata basically is the one who is remembered by God. The one who is remembered by God.
13:39 Shantay is my surname. So since I have been in the mainland India for almost 30 years,
13:45 my non-Mizor friends, you know, find it difficult to pronounce Hriyata. So they might sometime
13:50 call me Harita. It hardly matters. Good morning and thank you for having me, Mr. Rahit.
13:56 It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure. My name is Pankaj Mishra. And I mean, Mr. Shantay,
14:06 looking at, you know, a new sun rising in the east, ZBM. Was that expected? Did Swaram
14:15 Thanga see it coming?
14:18 It was largely expected by the Guman people. But Swaram Thanga and his party, the ruling
14:24 MNF, since they are in the position power for only one term, in Mizoram there has been,
14:32 you know, a funny, rather funny, interesting of the fact that every party who rules the
14:39 state will rule for two terms, you know, Congress two terms, MNF two terms. But then our MNF
14:45 friends were reluctant to, you know, give up this time. They said that this is only
14:49 a first time, so there will not be change. But then the way I see the results here, a
14:55 landslide victory for ZBM, Zoram People's Movement. I think it is the expectation of
15:02 the people to make a change, you know. So we are for the change only. So I think this
15:09 is a good and very healthy, progressive attitude of the Mizzou voters here. I think we have
15:14 to accept that.
15:16 Okay. Also, Mr. Shantay, when talking about the key issues that Mizoram went to polls
15:25 with, in your opinion, what was it that changed the tide in favour of ZBM?
15:32 It is mainly because of the fact that the present ruling party MNF, there is too much
15:38 of nepotism and corruption in the government. So I think Mizzou being, you know, we are
15:45 very educated, only a population of 12 lakh, we know each and every, you know, tricks of
15:51 the government here, okay. So by allotting the government contracts and all, so there
15:56 have been a lot of nepotism and people are getting fed up with this. So they say that
16:00 since ZBM is a new political party established only in the year 2019, so Mizzou people gracefully,
16:08 openly have accepted that, okay, let's give these guys a few chance. So let's see. I think
16:16 we are going in that line only.
16:17 Well, a very informed electorate, I must say, as far as Mizoram is concerned with the literacy
16:24 rate also, you know, better than average what we see in other parts of the country. For
16:31 a border state like Mizoram, Manipur is also in your neighborhood, how important it is
16:38 to have your house in order and a decisive government also maybe with full majority as
16:45 ZBM has come into power?
16:48 Well, as far as the problems that has been happening around the, you know, the state
16:53 of say Mizoram, bordering Manipur, Manipur problem, then Myanmar problem, then Bangladesh
16:59 problem. I think in this respect, the present government, which is basically the government
17:04 of the as well, underground people, you know, the MNP people are the ones who had fought
17:09 for independent Mizoram sometime in 1966 to 86. This aspect, our chief minister is doing
17:17 quite well. But then I think the main trust here, the main expectation of the people is
17:22 a cleaner, a cleaner state government administration. So it has not much to do with the neighboring
17:29 states, I understand.
17:31 Okay. Okay. Which is, I would say, a relief to hear because at least, you know, those
17:36 are not the issues that the state government is bothered with. But the issues that you
17:41 mentioned, Mr. Shanty, are very common, very synonymous with this, you know, rest of part
17:48 of the country, and be it nepotism that you mentioned, what you call parivar vat, which
17:54 you know, you're talking about corruption, you're talking about awarding government contracts,
18:02 these things, once again, there are two states that saw governance change. One was Telangana,
18:09 which is a very progressive state, you talk about Hyderabad, you talk about the farmers
18:13 issues, KCR tried all the all he could do. But he was also bogged down by corruption
18:19 charges. Secondly, Chhattisgarh, Bhupesh Bhagil, no one had expected that he would also lose,
18:26 but then things changed. How important in your opinion, is it for the leaders, the political
18:34 leaders, the ruling class, it is important to understand the pulse of the people, you
18:38 say that Mizoram gives two terms. And I think two terms is what Telangana also gave KCR.
18:44 But again, he wouldn't hit a hat trick.
18:48 Well, I see I have been traveling quite a lot during the election time. I'm from the
18:55 Congress party, doing very badly today. And in fact, I had contested an MP as an independent
19:03 candidate in 2019. I mean, ex ex-candidate of the MP. So yeah, from Mizoram. So this
19:12 time around, what happened is that as a Congress star campaigner, I've been traveling in almost
19:17 13 to 14 constituencies of 40 constituencies. And I find that the Mizoram voters are quite
19:23 smart, quite literate. And I think they are not being bluffed by the propaganda or the
19:30 high sounding, you know, manifestos. They have their own choices clear well before the
19:36 election, say by when we have about six months, I believe that the voters have already decided
19:43 to change the government. So I think in Mizoram, like in other progressive states, what is
19:49 the most important for any particular state government is to deliver the goods they have
19:54 to perform. Right. So our young generation, let's say I can see from the statistics that
20:01 18 to 18 to 35 years old, the first the new generation voters in the first time voters,
20:10 they are about 52% you know, of the total electorates. These guys, they are well aware
20:17 of what is going on in the part of India. They are fed up with you know, the toll claim,
20:22 you know, in the political platforms and all. So they don't believe that. So they simply
20:27 give that okay, we have Congress, who are there ruled for about five terms, and MNF
20:34 for three terms. So basically, this is a wave, you know, that is covering the whole of Mizoram
20:41 for a change. People are not very sure whether ZPM will be able to perform better than Congress
20:46 or MNF. But people think that okay, let's give a chance to ZPM. And if not good, then
20:53 we'll throw them out again. So the majority voters think quite you know, smartly. I don't
20:58 think we are too much influenced by the political gimmicks of our leaders. Promises and guarantees.
21:04 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are not we're not being swept away by that, you know.
21:07 It's a good thing. And you know what, what I was swept away off my feet is the fact that
21:13 I spent roughly a week's time a little bit more in Rajasthan. Okay, the people whom I
21:20 met, they were saying, there are 50-50 chances, 49-51 chances, Congress can come, BJP can
21:26 come, with a little margin, with, you know, Rajasthan producing alternate government for
21:32 the last 30 years. Now, the verdict that has come with the kind of majority BJP has got,
21:38 it has actually changed the dynamics also. So when it comes to the people, I mean, they
21:43 are very smart. And someone told me also, Kipankar, don't trust them, not in a bad manner.
21:49 But remember, they are very smart voters. And they won't allow a government to, you
21:54 know, people to be dependent on the government. They want the government to be dependent on
21:58 them. And that's what you are mentioning.
22:00 See, what happened is that now it's difficult to know who is bluffing. The leaders are bluffing
22:08 the voters or the voters are bluffing the leaders.
22:10 The other way around is good, sir. So, like, it's a cold heat. So, it keeps the leaders
22:16 also in check and performance is good.
22:19 Exactly. I'm in a way very happy as a progressive politician here, that at least people are
22:25 not purchased, votes are not being purchased. And the decision is taken by the voters in
22:31 their own way, in their own terms of understanding.
22:34 Right. A lot of differences, you know, we talked about similarities, be it the issues,
22:40 but a lot of differences also are there, Mr. Shanty. And forgive me for my little knowledge
22:46 about the North Eastern matters. But when we saw what happened in Manipur, that was
22:53 the time when even the remotest part of the country took note of the kind of issues that
23:01 are there, be it the tribal issue, the identity issue, the zoo, cookie, maybe the issue.
23:10 In this whole scenario, sir, in Europe, since you are also a public figure, you go to public
23:16 contesting as independent candidate as well. And you are a social activist also. So your
23:21 understanding of the social fabric of the Northeastern states, how is it different from
23:28 the central and other parts of the country? And secondly, what is expected of the sector?
23:33 Is there something that the youth wants there that, hey, look, Modi government or the central
23:37 government should do for us?
23:39 See, I let me just tell you the fact that I, I am a mining engineer by profession. Now,
23:47 I am also a practicing lawyer here. I'm so many thing, okay. So what I wanted to tell
23:57 you is that by nature, by nature, the tribal people of Northeast have a very deep sense
24:03 of alienation from the central India, mainly because difference in culture and also not
24:09 being able to communicate in Hindi. We're not feeling at home there, but then at the
24:16 same time, you know, as you can understand that we are, Mizoos are all Christians, okay.
24:22 We are all tribals. So we are what I would call it a minority in a minority. Okay. You
24:29 can imagine that there are only 17 people of Mizo in 10,000 Indians. Okay. That means
24:35 our percentage of population vis-a-vis the national is 0.018. That means for every 10,000,
24:45 for every 10,000 of Indians, you'll find 17 or 18 Mizo only. So they, at the same time,
24:51 you know, we, Mizo Ram has got a history of the fact that we feel that we are forced Indians,
24:57 you know, falsely occupied by the British and then thereafter by the Indians. So that
25:03 present MNF, we were fighting for the, you know, independent Mizo Ram, Republic of Mizo
25:07 Ram, but then it was for 20 years, 66 to 66 LAK 86 up. We found that it was not feasible.
25:16 Right. So now the Mizo, the Mizo tribals, Mizo Christian tribals have become very much
25:21 Indianized, very, very much Indianized. So you cannot really compare Mizo Ram and Manipur
25:28 because in Mizo Ram we are very homogenous. Manipur, they have something like 30 plus
25:36 tribes and those tribes are having underground, underground outfits. So this underground outfit
25:42 terrorism atmosphere is the atmosphere which we have left long time back, almost 35 to
25:47 40 years back. So Mizo's in a way, we think in a very different way.
25:53 I'm totally in agreement with you. Please go ahead.
26:14 Now what I wanted to impress upon you, I would like to take this advantage, that advantage
26:19 that you're having me here. And once again, thank you for that also. Thank you to you.
26:25 See, Mizo Ram election was supposed to be also counted yesterday.
26:29 I know.
26:30 Yeah. So the NGO, the churches, they have approached the election commission of India.
26:37 It was very difficult. ECI was not, you know, ready to change the date. But then since there
26:43 was pressure mounting and Sunday being, you know, the earmark for church activities. So
26:50 they have postponed it by one day. Then we become so happy. Please, through your channel,
26:57 I want to thank the ECI also. So people are very much satisfied today. So I think this
27:04 election, let's see, it is a state election. So I mean, like this is an anti-incumbency
27:10 against the MNF, the Congress, the old parties, and also to the desire to introduce a new
27:18 party in Mizo Ram. Now, if you go to the national politics, Mizo people, I hope will think in
27:25 a different way. Okay. So the central government needs to understand that we are tribal by
27:32 status, legal status. And we're also a minority community from Christians. And we want to
27:38 survive as you know, Mizo Christian Indians. Okay. In Mizo Ram, what happened is that in
27:44 your state, I don't know where you're from, say Rajasthan or Madhya Pradesh, it is India
27:49 first. Okay. India first, then Gujarati second. But in Mizo Ram, it's Mizo first and then
27:55 Indian. Okay. I want to understand from you, sir, you are exactly the right person, you
28:01 know, to make our viewers understand that how important it is to understand our brothers
28:05 and sisters and our own countrymen from the Northeastern state. I mean, many a times,
28:11 jokingly, people would say, "Acha chalo bahar kahi nahi jata hoonne toh North-East ghoomne
28:15 chale jao." Other than that, no one says, "I'm sending my kid to Atishpur University
28:21 or Assam, or for that matter, you know, Agra Chal." There are some strategic issues also,
28:26 but there is a movie, sir, sorry, I might be sounding promoting that movie, which is
28:31 called Sam Bahadur. I happened to see, it's basically a biopic on the first field marshal
28:39 of India, Shah. That movie mentions MNF once, it is about during his 1971 war, and how the
28:54 history remembers, you know, North-East. And this line, he says, "Nahi Delhi, Assam
29:02 se itni door hai, ki log Pradhan Mantri jaise bhool gaye hoon Assam." So this feeling, you
29:09 know, made me feel, that's why I asked you, what are the sentiments of the people? And
29:14 centers focus, do you think that 2014, when Prime Minister Modi assumed power, the Look
29:20 East policy, or, you know, the Eastern states, did they get something extra? Or has it been
29:27 the same?
29:28 Well, BJP as such, you know, in terms of changing from Look East policy to Act East policy,
29:35 the central government under Modi, they have been doing a very good job. But at the same
29:40 time, we are not mentally or emotionally convinced, till today, that this is for Mizores or say
29:49 for Manipur. We think in terms that this is for a defense, you know, defense strategic
29:55 activities approach. So then, in any case, Mizoram and other small tribal states are
30:01 very small. So we are fully dependent on the central government for any developmental activities.
30:07 So I think the way you have just said, you know, that the theme, I will tell you one
30:14 theme that has come now. I'll just tell you, it's about the Punjabi boy, you know, falling
30:25 in love with a Mizo girl. It has been released on the first two days back, on the first of
30:31 December. So I was very happy because I see, I'll tell you, I've been in the central India,
30:37 I was in Gujarat, I was in Bangalore, I was in Kolkata, Abu Baneshwar, so I fully understand.
30:42 Now, with the kind of such promotional films, I think the Mizo and the tribals in general
30:49 from the Northeast will be slowly, slowly integrated to the mainland India. And in this,
30:54 Isika, Isikiappa, a Punjabi boy and a Mizo girl, interracial marriage, you know, there
31:00 was the problem they faced. And ultimately, I find that the young Mizo people like the
31:06 movie very much. Right, right. It is so right. So I think you should do more, you know. Isikiappa,
31:15 you said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a new movie. Okay. I will definitely, you know, take a
31:21 look at it. Please see. And you know, Bollywood, you're right. If you have to bring or make
31:30 one of your states feel that yes, the whole country stands with you, what happens with
31:36 Kashmir? You know, it makes headline if a new cinema theater opens in Kashmir. It always
31:41 makes new headline if Shahrukh Khan or Bollywood goes and shoots in Jammu and Kashmir, because
31:47 of the importance and beauty also. Likewise, Northeast, you're right. I mean, it's a point,
31:51 you know, well taken that the government should focus on that regard also. I mean, Prime Minister
31:56 Modi, you would know, very recently said that why are people going and getting married abroad?
32:02 Why don't you host your marriage functions here? I think Northeast can present a very
32:06 good picking up through, you know, just the experience. So now, Mr. Shanty. Yeah. As far
32:18 as you know, when you began, you said you have been in the mainland India. So that was
32:24 something that stayed in my mind. And that's why you when you explained that what are the
32:28 sentiments how people feel there, first being Mizo and then being Indian, which I think
32:34 the government has to walk that extra mile. Exactly. Because you can't take away the identity
32:40 from them. I wanted to know from you, Mr. Shanty, what happened in Manipur? Mr. Zoran
32:47 Khanga was very critical of that. He wrote a letter to CM Biren Singh also. And there
32:54 have been issues both with Manipur and Mizoram of the incoming people, migrants from Myanmar.
33:01 How do you think these sentiments play out when migrants come in? And when migrants come
33:07 from another state, because a lot of people went from Manipur to Mizoram to seek shelter?
33:13 How did that play out? You're talking about the impact of such things in this present
33:19 election elections or society in general? How people... Well, as you can imagine that
33:26 there are Changte, okay, Mr. Changte. There are Changte in Manipur, Changte in Myanmar,
33:32 Changte in Bangladesh. So Manipuri brothers and sisters, they are Indians, first of all.
33:39 So they can go to any Indian territory, settle down there. But when it comes to our Myanmar
33:44 is, you know, brothers and sisters, technically, they are foreigners. Yes, yes. So when they
33:50 come inside Mizoram, that is India, Indian of India, they have to follow certain norms.
33:57 So technically, they are foreigners, they are unwanted guests. We have to push them
34:03 back. But Zoram Tanga being, you know, a rebel leader, himself was, you know, most of the
34:10 time in Bangladesh and Myanmar only, during the fight. Yes. So he certainly has an emotional
34:16 attachment with those brothers and sisters. He was a fighter. He was moving around here
34:22 and they're being protected by our very own brothers and sisters in Bangladesh and Myanmar.
34:27 So he feels that he's obliged, you know, to take care of them. But these things, I'll
34:33 tell you that the Indian government has understood. In the beginning, they have, you know, tried
34:38 to convince the state government that these people should be pushed back since they are
34:42 not political refugees. They are only people who have just crossed the international boundary,
34:47 just like that. But Zoram Tanga cannot push back my brothers and sisters. So somehow they
34:53 have been retained here in a way they have been affecting the social fabrics. Yes. And
34:59 he also did not push back the cookie community that were moving from Manipur to Mizoram.
35:09 Frankly speaking, I'll tell you, see, I'm a very outspoken guy.
35:15 That cookies, zombies, you know, those people, we call them Mizos. Some of them don't call
35:22 themselves Mizos, they call themselves zombies or say cookies, but we treat them as our own
35:28 Mizos. So from our side, we open army, you know, welcome them to our places. But in Manipur,
35:35 Manipur is a situation in which even the cookies and the zombies are fighting each other.
35:41 Yes, they are. So as a Mizo, our idea is to make them understand each other, make them
35:48 feel that they are Mizos. I am a loose guy in Mizoram.
35:53 Absolutely. No, no, you're right. When it comes to the affairs in Manipur, they have
36:01 been quite eye opener as far as the latest developments are concerned. But having said
36:06 that, Mr. Shankar, I would love to, you know, have you for another five minutes, because
36:12 we are also joined by Mr. Sanjoy Hazarika, a journalist and author and office expert.
36:23 Mr. Hazarika, thank you so much for taking time out and speaking to us on a day when,
36:31 as I began by saying, a new sun has risen in the east, ZPM on Mizoram's horizon. How
36:39 do you see it, the new government there?
36:43 I think the wind was blowing pretty clearly when I was there a few months, a couple of
36:48 some weeks ago. It was there for two weeks in October. And it was quite visible that
36:56 I think younger people were definitely in favor of new faces, new changes, new party,
37:06 new leadership, because see, Mizoram, you had three chief ministers in 36 years, 37
37:13 years. So there is a need for a change. And the people who are 37 today have no recollection
37:22 of the Mizoram Accord or the way when Lal Degha, you know, all that, you know, everything
37:31 comes from there. And people talk about regionalism and regional parties in places like Mizoram
37:37 and Nagaland. I'd say that they are national parties with a regional outlook, not regional
37:44 parties with a national outlook. And the so-called national parties have become small and regional.
37:50 That's the very interesting part of the whole story now.
37:54 No, I think, you know, it's not just on the political side. If you talk about the media
37:59 also, which is a good thing. I'm not saying that, you know, going smaller to bigger is
38:06 the only option at times, you know, condensing yourself is also important. Media houses,
38:14 initially they were run mostly from Delhi or Mumbai, you would hear or not hear the
38:19 news of Northeast from Delhi only because it was dependent on the channels here or the
38:25 publication here, whether they would send someone there or not. But now a lot of youngsters,
38:29 I mean, for this broadcast also, we, and since the day of the first election happened, November
38:36 7th, I mean, we had one journalist who works for All India Radio also, works for other
38:43 publications and broadcast houses, and they are happily staying there after having worked
38:47 15 years in Delhi, they chose to go back. So they became regional from national, which
38:52 is a good thing.
38:53 So Mr. Azhar, they actually invested in their homeland. I think that's a very important
39:00 thing.
39:01 Not everyone, I mean, Mr. Shanty, you know, you were mentioning, you know, which state
39:07 I come from, I come from a state of, as I say, milk and rice and potato, Bihar. And
39:13 I have not been able to, frankly speaking, and many of, you know, people like me or,
39:18 you know, the youth who came here for higher studies and then chose to stay here. Call
39:24 it the stroke of fate, or maybe lack of opportunity, we never were able to go back and, you know,
39:30 invest in the state. But this is a very good phenomenon that is happening. In that regard,
39:35 Mr. Azhar, I wanted to know from you, what is it that Mizoram in particular and North
39:40 East in general needs from the centre, so that they don't feel alienated?
39:46 I don't think the question of alienation is much of an issue now. You know, the past,
39:53 I think the Mizos are a wonderful example of how they have made peace with the past.
40:01 And how they've accepted the idea of India and really embraced it almost more than many
40:09 other groups and communities and states of the region.
40:16 So I think a continuance of support from the centre for basic infrastructure, because in
40:24 Mizoram, you have this strange dichotomy, this contradiction, where you have a population
40:30 with the highest, second highest literacy education rates in the country. But you also
40:37 have a great deal of poverty, especially in the rural areas. So one thing doesn't get
40:44 translated into greater affluence. Let's leave aside the towns and cities like Aizawl. Aizawl
40:52 has one third of the state's population or even more. And it's terrible in terms of infrastructure.
40:58 It's grown straight up, because on the hills, if there's an earthquake, there'll be a disaster.
41:03 But anyway, leaving that aside, infrastructure has been a great challenge in terms of building
41:10 roads that are sustainable. Forget about railroads, that those railways are also one
41:16 rail line is also coming from the Silter side. But the important thing is that unless you
41:23 have internal connectivity, you can't have external connectivity. You can talk about
41:29 actives policy, but if you don't have the roads within the country, you can't even get
41:33 farm produce from the farms to the towns and people have to hire, you know, walk distances,
41:40 hire vehicles and get there. You know, these things need a lot of attention. So this has
41:46 been a content. And this is, I think, one of the factors why the ZPM got such a huge
41:52 support also in rural areas, because they've been consistent in one thing about buying
41:57 back, buying from the farmers and their programs and their candidates have been public knowledge
42:05 for months. You know, they didn't pick the candidates at the last minute, they've been
42:10 there for what six to eight months. That's been substantial.
42:15 So, Mr. Shantep, as Mr. Hazarkar says, you know, connecting with the grassroot is what,
42:24 you know, got ZPM these number of seats, and they are very well on the way to make the
42:28 next government there. Did MNF lose sight of these things? Because MNF would always
42:35 claim that they fought for, you know, the meso land, they fought for the cause, they
42:40 have been there for the longest time. And as Mr. Hazarkar says, you know, this generation
42:45 30 years down the line, the voters won't know them, even if someone is 20 years. So do you
42:49 think that ZPM, Zoram People Movement, what is it? What did they do differently to get
42:56 the, you know, the belief and the faith of the people and get it back from MNF?
43:03 Before answering you, let me just go to Sanjay. Sanjay, I don't know if you remember me.
43:09 Hello, hello.
43:10 I've been talking to you live also. Last time we met in Gowti airport.
43:16 Yeah, yeah.
43:17 We met Manipur MP Kim Gangte.
43:20 Kim, yes.
43:21 So he has nicely put it, but I want to add to that, you know, Indianization of the tribal
43:27 people in North East. Mezos, you know, like many ample times have been asked why mezos
43:33 are no more interested in terrorism. I said mezos are very progressive.
43:38 That is driving us very strongly. And the most important thing I feel for, you know,
43:52 central government is that we as mezos, we are Christians and tribals. So the sentiments
43:57 have to be taken care of. Now, when you talk about CAA, say, Uniform Civil Code and all,
44:03 so we need an assurance from the central government. No, look, you be an Indian as a mezos, mezo
44:09 Christian tribals. So if there is an understanding or say the fact that the central government
44:16 is taking care of us, I think mezo Indianization will boom like anything. So I think we can
44:23 make a lot of contributions like Sanjay. Sanjay knows mezo realm quite well. I'm happy to
44:29 be a part we do today in the interview. Sanjay there. So that is one thing. And then and
44:34 then the fact that YZPM is doing very well now. It is not that it is not that ZPM have
44:41 got the best candidates. The candidates we have in Congress are very good. But the problem
44:46 here is that in mezo realm, we have seen, as Sanjay says, we have seen in the last 35
44:52 years or so, two chief ministers, Lathangola five times chief minister, Zoramthanga three
44:58 times chief minister, and the new generation, the new the young voters, they don't see or
45:03 they haven't heard. They haven't been, you know, convinced of the fact that these two
45:08 political leaders are not serious. They are not serious enough to give opportunities for
45:14 employment and all. So they are desperate. So the only way they can see is that let's
45:19 try somebody who is not MNF, non MNF, non Congress. That's the only way that that is
45:25 the only way you know that I feel is going on. Now I am also very vocal, you know, I'm
45:30 very vocal against their chief ministerial candidate, Pula Duoma. But then the people
45:37 you know, decided that, okay, let us have a new chief minister. So we'll have a new
45:41 chief minister. Mezoos are in a way very, you know, like I said, polite, you know, very
45:46 accommodating. So the main reasons if you ask any ZPM, MLA who's got elected today,
45:53 he's gonna say I'm the best candidate in that constituency. No, the flow of the people,
45:59 the mind, the mindset of the people is that let's try a new thing. We have seen Congress
46:04 for many times, we have seen MNF, they're not doing good. If this guy is doing good,
46:08 better, let's give a chance. I think that's the only way that is coming in this election.
46:13 Internally, the state government's role should be to, you know, spread the development and
46:22 economic emancipation across the state. If the rural Mezooram is not thriving and urban
46:30 Mezooram, you have cafes and, you know, theatres coming up in Aizawl, it's the imbalance. But
46:37 from the central part of the country from the government at the centre, do you believe
46:43 that Act East also needs a further step so that the countries and other states are connected
46:50 and people start going there? Not only Mezo people enjoy the coffee in Aizawl cafe, but
46:55 also people person from India or Gujarat, from Delhi or Gujarat goes there. Can that
47:01 be a possibility?
47:02 See, that is very much possible. Then one thing I want to impress upon you and also
47:08 to all concerned is that development is one thing. But Mezooram, see the way we have been
47:14 protesting to, you know, defer the date of counting from yesterday to today, it's not
47:20 because of anything else. But as a tribal, as a Christian, we are apprehensive of the
47:26 fact that the BJP government in Delhi is only interested in the development, not in the,
47:35 you know, tribal, you know, culture and then the protection of the religion. I'll tell
47:40 you a very simple fact is that in Mezooram, BJP is not working. Because, because, because
47:54 of the fact, because of the fact that we, this central government, whosoever Congress
47:59 or BJP, they need to have the development with a human face. Okay. With the development
48:08 with a human face, say for example, when people talk about uniform civil court, I am one of
48:15 the most enlightened, one of the most enlightened Mezoor tribal. I've been in the Ministry of
48:21 Mines, I work in ONGC, you know, I've been places and in fact, I am a graduate mining
48:26 engineer from your Bihar, ISM Dhanbad.
48:29 My elder brother is from Mining and Machinery ISM.
48:32 Okay. Okay. So, at the same time, I've been a product of that 20 years, years of independence,
48:39 Mezooram independence. So, you know, there were times when we measured the level of Mezoorness
48:46 in terms of the level of your hating the Indian or the Hindus. Now, that scenario has changed.
48:54 Like Sanjay Dha has said, Mezoors are not very enthusiastic about any uprising anymore.
49:01 But at the same time, we have to remember like we have in the Constitution, Article
49:07 371(g), which says that the tribal culture, tribal traditions will be protected and no
49:13 central government act will be implemented until and unless it is adopted by the state
49:18 government of Mezooram.
49:19 Right.
49:20 Now, there is a feeling now that with Modi coming with the central government, BJP backed
49:26 by RSS, their main idea is Hindu Dwaa. So, there might be an economic development, but
49:32 if our tribe, if our community, if our faith is in danger. Okay. So, the central government
49:37 has to deal very, you know, tediously, tenderly about our culture, tribal sentiments. If it
49:46 is like that, I think Mezoors really have no problem with any particular, you know,
49:51 party coming to power in New Delhi. Okay. That is one thing.
49:55 Another thing I want to tell you is that Mezoors in a way, we have a culture deeply rooted,
50:03 you know, in a concept what we call "Tum Maina", that is selfless service to others. Okay.
50:09 Now, when we think about, you know, Mezooram getting developed, Sanjay Dao will be knowing
50:15 carefully better, Delhi, Bangalore, even Guwahati, the rich are very rich. The poor are very
50:22 poor. Here in Mezooram, we are equally poor, equally rich. Okay. Once my chief controller
50:30 of mines came to Aizawl to visit for a meeting, he was surprised to see that Mr. Sanjay, you
50:36 tribals are very well developed. I've been taking him, you know, in different houses
50:40 of my relatives. Right. These people are rich. They have furniture, imported furniture from
50:45 Malaysia and all, you know, the decoration, the design is very good. And these are tribals
50:50 who are not paying income tax, right? Okay. Just asking.
50:54 Yeah, yeah. He would know whether they contribute, huh?
50:57 They are richer. They are richer than me, chief controller of mines. But you say that
51:02 you are not paying income tax. I think you should start paying income tax. You know what
51:05 he's telling. We don't mind. But the thing is that what is most important in our mind
51:10 is that our tribal culture and the faith. Okay. If these are, you know, given a protection,
51:16 you know, like we call clear cut, you know, indication by the central government that
51:21 don't worry, guys, we will take care about you. But please be a good Indian. I think
51:25 we can be the one of the best Indians, one of the most progressive Indians.
51:28 Well, as Friyata, as you told us in the beginning, God's love. We also love you. In your opinions,
51:37 a final word, Mizoram. If there's one message that you want, through your experience to
51:42 give to the Mizo people as of now, with the change of God at this state, what would it
51:48 be?
51:49 We see on my personal behalf and on behalf of the other people here also, I want to congratulate
51:56 the ZPM people. And I hope that as per the expectations of the voters, they should be
52:02 able to perform much, much better than the Congress and MNF. And in the process, even
52:08 the parties like us, Congress, MNF, I think we will not be shy off in helping them around.
52:15 And then at the same time, they should also remember that we are there to, you know, crosscheck
52:19 these people, Okanosis, wherever is there. Because we all love, we all love Mizoram.
52:25 We all love Mizo society. Okay, that's one thing. And at the same time, through your
52:29 channel, what I wanted to take advantage of this opportunity is that Mizo by far, we are
52:36 very, you know, progressive, peace loving. And we have already given up fighting against
52:42 India since 1986. So we are very much Indian now. But at the same time, through your channel,
52:48 what I wanted you to convey the message is that whoever is in Delhi should also take
52:55 care of us as one of the beautiful flowers in the big garden of India. Okay. So we want
53:03 to be, see, please don't mind, because we are minority, a minority in a minority. So
53:09 we want to survive as Mizo Indians. Don't impose that it should be Indian first and
53:14 then Mizo. Because for us survival is very important. Okay. As you rightly said that
53:20 we are in a very, you know, disturbed neighborhood, Bangladesh, Myanmar. So I think in everything
53:28 they do, if the government of India shows some kind of, you know, respect for the people,
53:33 the 12 lakh population of Mizo, which is not even half of the population of Guwahati city.
53:39 Right. So what I wanted to impress upon you and the people concerned is that we are good
53:45 people, we will do very good. We have already decided to become Indians in the year 1986,
53:51 2030. So we're doing okay. If Mizoram is not developed, India cannot develop as well.
54:01 So the development of India, the what we call the signing, India signing has to penetrate
54:06 to Mizoram by way of activist policy, whatever development, BJP, I think everybody likes
54:11 here in terms of development. But in terms of culture, faith, we are apprehensive of
54:16 BJP. So I think we have to, if you take care of this, our discussion will be very fruitful.
54:24 Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Thank you, Sanjay. Thank you, Mr.
54:28 Shantay for speaking to us. I think Sanjay wants to say something more.
54:34 One line. Yes. I think partly to address what Pooj Shantay has said, I think the election
54:40 commission's decision to defer the counting from a Sunday at the request of various civil
54:46 society groups, including the church to a Monday is a significant step in recognizing
54:54 the difference as well as the need to be sensitive to those differences, because otherwise they
55:02 can play out into other problems. So it was a good step of recognizing...
55:09 Just one sentence, please, again. Sanjay Das said about that, the postponement of that.
55:16 For ECI, there was no problem in postponement, but we found that they were too much reluctant.
55:22 They were taking us too lightly. They were taking us, you know, the sentiments, religious
55:26 sentiment, tribal sentiments too lightly, but good sense prevailed upon ECI. And I think
55:33 this kind of gesture will help, will help Mizo people, you know, integrate into Indian
55:38 mainstream much faster. So I think the way, I think ECI, I have written a letter to the
55:44 chief election commissioner also last night, thanking him that this is the right step,
55:49 very healthy, progressive step. So I think if other central government agencies, you
55:54 know, take care, you know, in this line of ECI, I think we can have a very good India
56:00 in the state of Mizoram. Right. See, I mean, I finished this show being
56:07 informed. I find myself more informed one hour before the show. And now thanks to both
56:13 of you gentlemen. And Sanjay Dada, my apologies, the video frame that I received from your
56:20 end on my monitor here has had a little bit of delay. That's why when you were pointing,
56:25 I could not see that you were raising a finger, but thank you Shankar for pointing out. And
56:32 it was lovely. Another one thing before we make a joint trip to Dhanbad, to ISM, you
56:39 know, because see, it's easier said than done. We say that government yeh nahi karte, government
56:43 woh nahi karte. Lekin media ko bhi chahiye ki you go there, you don't sit here in air
56:48 conditioned studios, go and see the people for themselves. What is the beauty there?
56:54 So I, from One India side, I mean, it was, it would be on my plan list A, that we do
57:00 a show from Aizawl with people, with one of the cafes by Sanjay Dada.
57:05 You are mostly welcome. You keep in touch with me. I'll make some arrangement for you.
57:09 And we should rather keep focusing on North East.
57:11 Exactly.
57:12 You know, from our end, that we keep interacting at least once a week on the issues of North
57:17 East.
57:18 Aizawl is not too far from Delhi now. It's very near now.
57:23 If you come, you'll get to breathe fresh air instead of sitting in an air conditioned
57:29 studio. You can do it out. Like I'm in Shillong, it's 50 to 60 AQI. Great, lovely sun, winter
57:39 sun. It's wonderful. And Aizawl is also good.
57:43 I think you have put the icing on the cake.
57:46 It's a question of survival. You need to breathe clean air. Otherwise, you'll go into shock
57:51 if you come to a place with clean air.
57:55 I must definitely thank you so much. I hope that we will get back again, sir.
58:00 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.