Off The Record | Kashif Abbasi | ARY News | 29th November 2023 - video Dailymotion

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#chairmanpti #election #nawazsharif #islamabadhighcourt #pti   ۔"This case is over," Analyst Shahzad Iqbal pinpoints NAB's mistakes  ۔Ather Kazmi and Aamir Ilyas Rana's analysis on Nawaz's acquittal in Avenfield reference  Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY  Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP  ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.  Official Facebook: https://www.fb.com/arynewsasia  Official Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/arynewsofficial  Official Instagram: https://instagram.com/arynewstv  Website: https://arynews.tv  Watch ARY NEWS LIVE: http://live.arynews.tv    Listen Live: http://live.arynews.tv/audio  Listen Top of the hour Headlines, Bulletins & Programs: https://soundcloud.com/arynewsofficial #ARYNews  ARY News Official YouTube Channel. For more videos, subscribe to our channel and for suggestions please use the comment section.

Transcript

00:00 Asalam o alikum, viewers, you are watching the program with Kashif Abbasi.

00:02 Today is a very important day.

00:04 The future of politics, what will be the scenario?

00:07 Maybe it will be very clear from today's events.

00:12 Two big events of today.

00:14 On one hand, Mr. Nawaz Sharif was acquitted in the Evanfield apartment case.

00:19 The flagship case, the request that the Naib had made against acquittal, he took back that request.

00:26 On the other hand, Tariq-e-Insaf has replaced Imran Khan for its chairman,

00:31 now Barrister Gauhar will be the candidate for the chairman of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf.

00:37 Let's start with the case of Mr. Nawaz Sharif.

00:40 You must remember that Mr. Nawaz Sharif was sentenced to 10 years in this case.

00:44 Maryam Nawaz Sharif was sentenced.

00:47 Captain Sartar was sentenced.

00:49 And at that time, the thing that was being said again and again was that the money trail of these flats was given by the Sharif family.

00:56 What is the money trail?

00:58 When was this flat bought?

01:00 Who bought it?

01:02 Who is the owner?

01:03 I can tell you with confidence that today neither the courts nor you nor I know who is the owner of these flats.

01:10 And in which year was this flat bought?

01:13 And this is not because of me.

01:16 This confusion is because of their own statements.

01:19 Because all the facts that are in front of us are all facts because of their own statements.

01:26 You must remember that a consortium was formed, a group of journalists,

01:31 which leaked the hidden properties of this world.

01:36 And in that, the name of Mr. Nawaz Sharif and the name of the Sharif family came out first.

01:42 This has a history. These London apartments, these Emmonfield apartments.

01:47 Like I said, we still don't know when it was bought.

01:51 Even today we don't know who the real owner is.

01:55 But we know that when Mr. Mian left Pakistan or whenever this family goes abroad and their sons still live in these flats.

02:03 The flats are theirs, this is proven, but no one knows who they belong to and how they were bought.

02:11 Like I said, let's take a look at the history.

02:14 When were these flats bought?

02:17 Muslim League's own senior politicians keep telling us that these flats were bought in 1994-95.

02:24 It's been 20 years since those flats were bought.

02:26 The full loan has not yet been repaid. It's been about 20 years.

02:30 When did you buy it? You tell me.

02:32 I know that it was bought in 1992-93.

02:34 Mr. Mian has been living there since 1992-93.

02:37 So there must be some link with that flat.

02:40 The information was that it was bought in 1993-94.

02:45 I have only read a few of these.

02:47 There is a whole line of people who believe that it was bought in 1993-94.

02:51 But suddenly, in 2016, Hussain Nawaz came to Manzir-e-Aam.

02:57 And in a TV interview with Javed Chaudhary, he said, "Alhamdulillah, these flats are ours."

03:02 And he told us in detail how the steel mill in Jeddah was sold in 2005.

03:08 And in 2006, these flats were bought.

03:11 He has several interviews.

03:13 So tell us what he is trying to say in detail.

03:16 In 2005, I sold a factory in Saudi Arabia.

03:21 The income that we got was officially transferred from Saudi Arabia to the UK.

03:29 In 2006, a part of that income was bought from these properties.

03:36 The shares of these companies that were holding the properties were bought.

03:40 And Alhamdulillah, I bought three properties.

03:43 And I bought them by getting a mortgage.

03:45 And they are under a trust.

03:47 And they are being held by my wife, Maryam Nawaz Sharif.

03:51 I have proof of everything.

03:54 So let me be.

03:56 If you ask me about this legally in court, I will give you something.

04:02 He also said in Shahzaib Khanzada's program that he has proof of everything.

04:07 If the court asks, I will give you.

04:09 But when the matter went to court, the matter went to a critical extent.

04:12 Let's come to that.

04:14 When the matter was getting very heated in the National Assembly,

04:19 and everyone was talking about making TORs,

04:22 that the National Assembly should deal with this matter first.

04:24 So Mian Sahib gave a speech.

04:26 And the famous sentence at that time was,

04:29 that these are the sources from which these flats were bought.

04:32 He also tried to give a money trail.

04:34 All records and documents are available regarding Dubai and Jeddah factories.

04:43 Huzoor, these are the sources and resources from which London flats were bought.

04:51 And so, talking about 1993-94, the matter came to 2006.

04:57 But when the matter went to the Supreme Court,

04:59 the lawyer of that time, Mian Sahib said that

05:01 this was a political statement of Mian Sahib in the National Assembly.

05:04 And a letter was sent that this investment was made with the Qataris in the olden days.

05:10 After which it has been settled and these flats should be given to the Sharif family.

05:14 And why was there a lot of noise in this?

05:17 The Kaaba was bought.

05:18 As I said, even today the Sharif family talks about 2006,

05:22 but the people of the Noon League talk about 1993-94.

05:27 But if these flats were bought in 1993-94,

05:35 then in 1999 Hassan Nawaz went to a BBC program called Hard Talk and said that he lives on rent.

05:42 In 2011, Mariam Nawaz Sharif said that

05:44 not only outside Pakistan, but she has no property in Pakistan.

05:48 And with that, she said that where did she get the property of my mother, my siblings and me?

05:54 Suleiman Shahbaz went even further.

05:56 In 2014, Imran Khan Sahib gave a press conference

05:59 in which he mentioned the London flats of Mayfair Apartments.

06:02 He said, which flats are these? Bring them, show them, prove them.

06:05 What statements were given at that time?

06:07 Do you know who owns the flat?

06:09 Well, it's on a rent. I'm renting on a rent basis which comes from every quarter from Pakistan.

06:14 You're renting it personally or the money comes from Pakistan?

06:17 The money comes from Pakistan.

06:19 I have no property in Central London, nor in Pakistan.

06:24 I live with my father.

06:25 And I don't understand where he got the property of my mother, my siblings and me.

06:31 The thing is that the Mayfair properties worth billions of rupees,

06:34 which he is talking about, we don't know about them.

06:37 Tell us which properties are there. Bring them, show them.

06:39 Bring some proof of that.

06:40 If they were bought in 1993-1994, why were they denied by the family again and again?

06:47 Why did they keep getting denials?

06:49 That they live on rent, we don't have much property.

06:51 First prove them.

06:53 When this matter came to light, it was said that if you were denying earlier and now you are accepting,

06:59 then give us the money trail.

07:00 That money trail has not come to light till date.

07:02 I said two basic questions.

07:04 Whose property is it and when was it bought?

07:06 I am sure that neither the court, nor us, nor anyone else has the answer to this.

07:11 All these statements, this case, mostly revolved around the statements of the Sharif family.

07:17 Now, the character of the Naib came in this.

07:19 In the beginning, Naib was very overactive.

07:21 The Supreme Court was also very active.

07:23 Obviously, Mr. Mian was denied the salary of the Bates, or the asset that he had not declared.

07:29 This case was done on this, but the case was sent to Naib, that Naib will make a reference on this,

07:34 and this case will run in the Naib court.

07:36 And this case was of asset beyond means.

07:38 The taxes that have been given, the incomes that have been declared,

07:43 after that, now giving the money trail is the responsibility of the Sharif family.

07:46 Like we have been saying for a long time that the law of Britain,

07:49 the unexplained wealth order, the wealth that has not been explained,

07:54 in that the government has to prove two things.

07:57 One, the asset, that is, your flat or land, and the second, who is its owner.

08:04 After proving these two things, the 12 evidence is on the accused,

08:09 whose things are brought forward.

08:12 The law in Pakistan is also that 12 evidence is shifted in such cases on the accused,

08:17 on whom the allegation is placed.

08:19 And that is why this discharging, this money trail,

08:23 the work of the accused is done, the work of the accused is done.

08:27 But when Naib, you will remember,

08:30 he was released from this case before and Captain Sardar Sardar Sardar Sardar Sardar Sardar Sardar Sardar

08:34 was killed in the friendship.

08:37 Google it, Google it.

08:40 This was said by the Naib prosecutor at that time.

08:42 Now he said, these references were forced upon us.

08:45 Now what to do with Naib?

08:48 These cases are now over.

08:50 And what will be the future of the new chairman of the Justice Movement,

08:54 and the new form of justice that will come?

08:57 Let's talk about this in our today's program.

09:00 Mr. Shahzad Iqbal is present, Mr. Rani Rani is present with me, Mr. Atar Kazmi is present.

09:04 Mr. Rani, the case is over today, but no one still has the answers to these questions.

09:09 Who, whose flat, 2006, that is, the Shahzad Iqbal says,

09:12 the rest says, Mr. 93, 94, do you have these things?

09:16 I was enjoying all of your...

09:18 He enjoyed a lot.

09:20 Because there were 4500 programs and people were put to this task.

09:23 I am talking about Wajid Zia.

09:25 Why do you think? Listen to me.

09:27 I am not talking about this, who is Wajid Zia, who is the rest, I don't know.

09:32 Just answer me one question, when was this apartment bought and who is the owner?

09:36 28th March 2018, 3.49 pm, tweet from Express News.

09:41 Who is saying? Nawaz Sharif's offshore companies and London flats owner, no evidence of Wajid Zia.

09:47 He is the same person who was leading.

09:49 And he has spoken outside the court.

09:52 You tell me, all the...

09:54 Whose apartment?

09:55 I will answer all your questions, but by consent.

09:58 You tell me this...

09:59 You are not talking about the program?

10:00 No, no, no, no.

10:01 Inside the program.

10:02 When Imtiaz Tajivar was called to Lahore, who was the Deputy Chairman of NAB,

10:06 the monitoring person, said to the Chairman,

10:10 "If he becomes a man, he will punish him without listening to the court.

10:15 Nothing should be touched on our references of JIT.

10:19 We have to put up letters when the time is up. Forward it."

10:23 Today, NAB is saying the same thing.

10:25 At that time, the diamonds of JIT and all the establishments...

10:28 You are saying process was wrong.

10:29 No, no, not process.

10:30 NAB was not allowed to be touched.

10:31 Let's move ahead.

10:32 When these judges were on the podium, Chairman NAB, Chaudhary Qamar Zaman,

10:35 Supreme Court, do you know what he said?

10:37 Today, NAB...

10:38 He died.

10:39 He died.

10:40 Do you know?

10:41 I was not there.

10:42 He died.

10:43 Like, he climbed Rajasikandar Sultan.

10:45 What are you doing?

10:46 Do you know in which case he was sentenced?

10:47 One minute.

10:48 Tell me in which case he was sentenced?

10:49 In Panama...

10:50 No, sir.

10:51 When Hudaibiya Paper Milk was questioned, that if you are sentenced today...

10:54 No, no, Hudaibiya was with Qazi Faiz Ishaq.

10:56 Sir, the split verdict of division match was given to Ma'am Reema.

10:58 Sir, that was Qazi Faiz Ishaq's case.

10:59 That was also a case that was not sent to the court by Faiz Ishaq.

11:01 One minute, I am saying...

11:02 That was also a case...

11:03 Sir, listen to what is being said in Panama.

11:05 Sir, I am not saying that you said it.

11:07 I am saying that I was there, that is why I am saying it.

11:09 He called Rajasikandar Sultan to open this secret ballot.

11:12 He said, you will give the verdict.

11:13 It is written in the constitution, I cannot do it.

11:15 The Supreme Court did not order anything in both cases.

11:17 It said, regulator, SECP Act.

11:20 You know, during the time of Imran, when another property came,

11:23 even then, the SECP was noticed.

11:25 That you do it and then NAB will do it.

11:27 This was the principle.

11:28 At that time, the aim was to punish Nawaz Sharif and his family.

11:31 But is this, as politicians and as three times Prime Minister,

11:35 the responsibility and duty of the family...

11:37 Listen, sir.

11:38 Is this not the responsibility and duty, as three times Prime Minister,

11:42 that if they are accused, their satisfaction will be given?

11:45 One minute, their satisfaction was given in the form of the whole family's insult.

11:49 That they will not leave and...

11:50 So if you give the answer, who will be held accountable?

11:52 I am going to the statement of Na Khawaja Asif.

11:54 I have a relationship with Chaudhary Nisar and I asked him for friendship.

11:57 Chaudhary sir, you tell me about these flats.

11:59 I will not tell you any detail, but I will tell you one thing.

12:02 This was bought in a flat as a result of Mian Sharif's business deal.

12:06 The money went to that businessman.

12:08 This was when Panama came.

12:10 And if this was corruption, I would not have stood at all.

12:13 And he told them at that time also that you should not sell in JIT.

12:16 Despite the anger, he said that you should not sell in front of your family.

12:19 I know this.

12:20 Okay, I will not say any such thing.

12:22 Hussain gave the interview to Javed Chaudhary.

12:24 Hussain was lying?

12:25 No, he said I am the owner.

12:26 So he is the owner till date.

12:27 When did he say that I am not?

12:29 The things you are looking for in Maryam and Nawaz Sharif.

12:32 Sir, I bought this in 2006.

12:34 Tell me one thing.

12:35 Yes.

12:36 Did Hussain Nawaz tell the truth that I sold the factory in 2005,

12:40 took the money to London and bought this apartment in 2006?

12:42 Is this true or false?

12:43 I will not go to his truth and lies.

12:45 Why will you not go sir?

12:46 You are going to lie with Nayab, why will you go to his truth and lies?

12:48 I will talk about the work I have done.

12:51 Why were you hiding?

12:52 I will not go to the papers which the High Court judge was asking me to tell you two years ago.

12:57 Where did the paper of ownership come from?

12:59 He said from JIT.

13:01 He said this is attested from the British government.

13:05 He said this is their paper.

13:07 13 times Nayab's prosecutor Muzaffar who is still present today.

13:10 Sardar Muzaffar.

13:11 He was also in Nayab's Ittisabh court where I gave you the tweet of Wajid Zia.

13:16 Sir, do you know the difference between you and me in the discussions?

13:19 The time of the program is a little less.

13:21 The difference between us is that you are talking about procedural flaws.

13:24 What case did you make?

13:26 Nayab did not bring anything.

13:28 It is the story of JIT.

13:29 10 volumes.

13:30 Open it.

13:31 How much is said on the 10th volume?

13:32 It is of India.

13:33 Why don't they open anything of Nawaz Sharif?

13:35 Where did it go?

13:36 How many interviews have been made here?

13:37 All the big philosophers have been saying.

13:38 I am tired of listening to them.

13:39 In Ninande, in Ninande apartment.

13:41 Give me an answer to this.

13:42 In Ninande apartment.

13:43 If I have listened to you and Nisar sir, Chaudhary Nisar, it means that he will buy it in 1993-94.

13:48 Why did I say that I live on rent in Ninande?

13:51 Why did I say that in 2011, our bible was not approved?

13:53 Flats came in a deal.

13:54 I used the word.

13:55 And came in a deal, but now you have come.

13:57 If any procedure of it has been done, he will give the same answer.

14:00 In 2014, no procedure was done.

14:02 I went to the true politician who is close to me.

14:05 You have tweeted Khwaja Asif.

14:07 I did not talk to him.

14:08 If I had spoken to Khwaja Asif, I would have told you.

14:11 Many people say that they were bought in 1993-94.

14:14 I agree with you.

14:15 Why are you hiding it?

14:16 You do not want to know the answer to this?

14:20 No, no, no.

14:21 The answer that the anchors and philosophers were doing at that time,

14:25 they were making a diamond of JIT.

14:27 You know what they used to say at that time?

14:29 There are Indian spies sitting there.

14:31 One is running to Dubai these days.

14:33 He never faced.

14:34 He used to lie every time he sat.

14:36 It is a very unfortunate thing that if you ask a question, you say that the philosophers were sitting.

14:41 Is this question wrong?

14:43 I have answered.

14:46 You know that this apartment is being quoted by Nisar.

14:49 I am quoting Husain Nawaz.

14:51 Tell me who is telling the truth?

14:53 If Husain Nawaz is saying this, then I have told you that Chaudhary Nisar said that his father had a deal.

14:58 And what did Nawaz Sharif say?

15:00 Dada gave it to his grandson.

15:02 Mian Sir also said the same thing.

15:04 I am also saying the same thing.

15:06 I also said the same thing.

15:08 He said that as a result of Mian Sharif's business deal, money went.

15:12 You know that General Malibu said that I told Nawaz Sharif that you say that Musharraf took the entire record in 1999.

15:19 He did not agree.

15:20 He is standing on his own.

15:22 What is the matter?

15:23 He did not lie.

15:25 General Malibu was saying that you will be saved from this situation.

15:28 What will we do about NAB?

15:30 I think NAB is guilty.

15:32 NAB should be caught.

15:34 I think the issue is that this is the Supreme Court.

15:37 I think Moses Judge.

15:39 Moses Judge says a lot, although the Supreme Court has forbidden it.

15:42 Don't say justice.

15:44 Don't say justice.

15:46 Don't say justice.

15:48 This is an obligation on the person who invented the essence.

15:50 Because NAB has been given a law.

15:52 The exception is that you cannot talk about their conduct.

15:54 NAB also has no answers in the law.

15:57 What will we do?

15:58 The issue is that those who have flats, they have no answers.

16:01 The rest of the questioners have answers.

16:03 They are philosophers.

16:04 The issue is that these two flats, not two, but four flats are in that building.

16:08 I worked for BBC on this.

16:10 Because Hussain Nawaz said that we sold the factory in Jeddah and bought it in 2006.

16:15 And he said this sitting on Express TV.

16:17 The first thing is that those who said that they sold the watch of Khana Kaba.

16:21 How are these people that they sold the land of Saudi Arabia?

16:24 They should have thought a little.

16:26 But that's an emotional argument.

16:28 I don't like emotional arguments.

16:30 I am not emotional.

16:32 Omar Barooq is coming.

16:34 He is also coming in the video link.

16:36 I am telling you how many fake statements he makes in this country.

16:39 And who do they do?

16:41 Take their name.

16:43 I am coming.

16:44 I am taking their name.

16:45 I am taking out the philosophers.

16:47 I am saying further.

16:48 The second thing is that they said that they bought it in 2006.

16:51 These flats, their ownership did not change from the 90s.

16:54 I myself took out the record of the British land registry.

16:57 We wrote two letters sitting with the lawyer of BBC.

17:01 To Hussain Nawaz and Hassan Nawaz.

17:03 That this is your claim.

17:05 But the record of the British government says that their ownership did not change from the 90s.

17:10 So how did you buy it?

17:12 Wasn't it an offshore company?

17:13 It was an offshore company.

17:14 It did not change its ownership from the 90s.

17:16 It was a bearer certificate.

17:17 If it was a bearer bond.

17:18 No, it was the same as a bearer certificate.

17:20 The law was changed in 2005-06.

17:22 It was not necessary in that law.

17:23 You could have kept it anonymous.

17:25 The one who has a bearer certificate.

17:27 This bond is being sold.

17:29 When the law was changed in 2006, then everyone came to their own name.

17:34 The second question in the letter was that if you have taken the bearer certificate.

17:39 The company has been handed over to you.

17:41 Then there must be something about it.

17:43 You tell that in 2006 we basically took this company.

17:47 So there must be some record of it.

17:49 Something must have happened.

17:50 Like in London, if you buy any property in the city.

17:52 You buy it in the 80s, you buy it in the 60s.

17:55 You don't think there will be any record of it.

17:57 There will be some banking transaction.

17:59 You buy it in Lala Moosa, so there is a record of it.

18:02 Who is going to believe this?

18:04 It is not in Lala Moosa, it is in London.

18:06 Lala Moosa is also anonymous.

18:08 And wherever Mr. Kaira lives, it is also anonymous.

18:12 The issue is that no one is saying that God forbid.

18:14 Cars are running on open transmission.

18:16 Now see here, who has created the confusion?

18:19 The confusion is created by their own statements.

18:22 One father is saying something else.

18:24 The son is saying something else.

18:25 His sister-in-law is saying something else.

18:27 Because of that, all these questions arise.

18:29 He has been living in the same flats for 4 years.

18:32 He has been living in the same flats for 4 years.

18:34 Is he still living there?

18:35 No, he is still there.

18:36 When did he live there?

18:37 He has been living there.

18:38 He used to leave from there everyday.

18:40 You are saying that even if he lives there,

18:43 he cannot say anything.

18:45 The law is there, ask him.

18:46 The fundamental thing is that...

18:47 Where did he get his MLA?

18:48 Every politician should be asked.

18:50 You yourself should give clarification.

18:52 I will say one last thing.

18:54 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

18:56 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:00 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:03 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:05 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:07 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:09 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:12 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:14 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:16 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:18 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:20 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:22 Why don't they bring the papers of heroes?

19:25 The case is almost over.

19:27 The attitude of the NAB prosecution today,

19:29 it seems that this challenge will not be in the Supreme Court.

19:31 The decision of the Islamabad High Court.

19:33 Politically, there will be a question,

19:35 which you also raised in your intro,

19:37 that when did he come in the family?

19:38 There is no doubt that the Sharif family has hidden his family.

19:40 All the statements are very clear.

19:42 Whether it is the BBC documentary,

19:43 Hassan Nawaz's statement that we are living on rent,

19:45 they have hidden it together.

19:46 The law of BVI was changed when he was officially transferred.

19:49 When he came to Panama, he had to give an interview.

19:51 He knew that the Panama papers were coming.

19:53 The journalists had asked him.

19:55 He gave an interview and accepted his ownership.

19:57 Now, two or three things are very important.

19:59 One is the legal order.

20:00 The biggest thing in this case was that

20:02 usually in corruption cases, the trial starts from the bottom.

20:04 There is a trial court, a high court, and a Supreme Court.

20:06 Here, the thing that was discussed today,

20:08 the NAB said that this was said by the Supreme Court.

20:10 So we did not make a reference on our inquiry investigation,

20:12 but on the request of the Supreme Court.

20:13 So we were helpless.

20:14 So I think this was the legal error.

20:16 The second, the weaknesses of the prosecution were very clear.

20:19 They did not estimate the income of Nawaz Sharif,

20:23 nor did they estimate the valuation of the flat.

20:25 So the order was in this decision.

20:28 The second, they did not prove that

20:30 if it is an issue of acid beyond mean,

20:32 then is it because of corruption or not?

20:34 Because in this case, Judge Bashir had acquitted him.

20:37 No allegation of corruption was proven.

20:39 This case is proven of acid beyond mean.

20:41 So I think the legal order was in place.

20:43 For a public office holder, see the problem is...

20:46 I think this case was not heard on merit.

20:49 Maybe if it was heard on merit in the trial court...

20:52 The purpose of the question was...

20:53 I will complete it.

20:56 Do it. Do it after this.

20:58 I believe that if the establishment was against you,

21:00 see as a politician,

21:02 it is your responsibility to keep your papers clean.

21:06 You are saying that because the establishment had to remove him,

21:10 is the case of Mian Sahib right?

21:14 Even today, I am asking you,

21:17 and you do not know when Mian Sahib bought the apartment,

21:20 you are quoting Nisar Sahib,

21:21 although this should have been in front of everyone.

21:23 And Hussain Nawaz, the son, the owner,

21:26 he is saying that he bought it in 2006,

21:28 and you are sitting here and saying that he bought it in 1996.

21:30 This is the biggest problem in this case.

21:32 I did not buy it in 1996.

21:34 You keep in mind, I quoted Nisar's name.

21:36 I am saying this. This is the problem.

21:38 You are not quoting your son.

21:40 He has made his own dates.

21:42 You are quoting Ali Nisar.

21:44 The Supreme Court has punished him for the flagship reference.

21:46 Even in the Black Law Dictionary,

21:48 even in the Black Law Dictionary,

21:50 the flagship reference is still there.

21:52 That was wrong.

21:54 But in this case, at least the politician's responsibility is that

21:56 you have to answer your voters.

22:02 This is a money trail.

22:04 I think that there was peace in the trial,

22:06 the case was run in a wrong way,

22:08 the case should have started from the bottom.

22:10 It is very clear that the intent was not to decide on the merit of the case,

22:14 the intent was to get Nawaz Sharif disqualified from politics and get him punished.

22:18 And whenever this happens, your cases will be ruined.

22:20 The history of Pakistan is full of cases where a case is strong on merit,

22:24 but because it is not done on merit, you will be free on that.

22:28 It has also been seen that if the case is not strong,

22:30 but because you are doing political revenge,

22:32 you will be punished for it.

22:34 And you saw the case of Shabaz Sharif,

22:36 where Farz-e-Jahin was to be compiled.

22:38 You are saying that this is a false case.

22:40 No, first it was cleared through NAB,

22:42 then it was put in FIA.

22:44 The same Shahzad Akbar who is talking about Tehdaab,

22:46 he is not taking it to FIA.

22:48 No, FIA has taken it to the US.

22:50 Do you know who has declared it to the public?

22:54 Jahangir Trim was the one who declared it.

22:56 When he was presented with the case,

22:58 he said that Shahzad Akbar has put it in the US.

23:00 FIA had not made the case.

23:02 They took it from NAB,

23:04 where they had put cameras on Maryam Nawaz and everyone else in Lahore.

23:06 Did the money rotate?

23:08 Did all the transactions take place?

23:10 You are saying that it did not happen.

23:12 You are saying that Shahzad Akbar did it.

23:14 You are saying that these transactions did not take place.

23:16 You are not saying this.

23:18 Shahzad Akbar has put the case in FIA.

23:20 I have said this.

23:22 But facts are different.

23:24 I understand, sometimes I feel like

23:26 we look at the procedures.

23:28 This is our problem.

23:30 Whenever you feel like, you will look at the procedures.

23:32 Whenever you feel like, you will look at the facts.

23:34 You will look at the procedures.

23:36 You will look at the facts.

23:38 You will look at the procedures.

23:40 You will look at the facts.

23:42 You will look at the procedures.

23:44 You will look at the facts.

23:46 You will look at the procedures.

23:48 You will look at the facts.

23:50 You will look at the procedures.

23:52 You will look at the facts.

23:54 You will look at the procedures.

23:56 You will look at the facts.

23:58 You will look at the procedures.

24:00 You will look at the procedures.

24:02 You will look at the procedures.

24:04 You will look at the procedures.

24:06 You will look at the procedures.

24:08 You will look at the procedures.

24:10 You will look at the procedures.

24:12 You will look at the procedures.

24:14 You will look at the procedures.

24:16 You will look at the procedures.

24:18 You will look at the procedures.

24:20 You will look at the procedures.

24:22 You will look at the procedures.

24:24 You will look at the procedures.

24:26 You will look at the procedures.

24:28 You will look at the procedures.

24:30 Welcome back Naseem.

24:31 Shehzad sir, can you please finish this NAP?

24:33 That's all I want to do.

24:35 You are saying that we should stop using political engineering?

24:39 No, no, let's wait for a while and then do it.

24:41 NAP...

24:42 Why should we wait for two years and then do this NAP?

24:45 For NAP, even if its Srinabad High Court or Supreme Court, they have their judgement.

24:49 There should be more, but for now...

24:53 There is a claim that this NAP is used as political engineering, for political victimization.

24:57 The PDM government, when they were in opposition, they also had this opinion.

25:01 And I think there were many leaders who said that the first thing, including Shahid Khan Abbasi,

25:05 we should do is to end NAP.

25:07 They amended NAP in the law, but didn't end NAP.

25:09 Because they thought that now that we have come to power, we will use NAP of our opponents.

25:14 The day you decide that you want to do the right thing, then NAP will end.

25:19 The day you decide that we don't want to do political engineering, then NAP will end.

25:23 Other than that, it will continue.

25:24 Yes, but we should keep NAP, but we should improve it.

25:27 There should be checks and balances.

25:29 If there is a work like this today, people will say that they will be hanged.

25:32 Now, before signing the bureaucrat, they say that they will be hanged.

25:36 But, Mr. Kashmir Abbasi, coincidentally, Shahid Khan Abbasi is so brave,

25:40 when he was the Prime Minister and he was told to amend NAP,

25:43 Saqib Nisar called him and said, "You will do it, I will end it."

25:46 He has not said why, till today.

25:48 Yes, that was said on the appointment of the Prime Minister and the PM backed off.

25:51 Yes, that was said on the appointment of the Prime Minister and the PM backed off.

25:54 Today, we see Pakistan being made very good.

25:56 When the PM was there, why did he sit quietly?

25:58 Today, he keeps saying that NAP should be ended.

26:00 So, he does it and stands.

26:02 What this Parliament did, they removed the teeth of NAP.

26:05 But, the Supreme Court has to return the NAP.

26:08 In that, Imran Khan asked for two reliefs and did not touch it.

26:11 He did not touch the 90-day remand and bail.

26:13 Both of them did not touch it.

26:15 Did the Supreme Court touch it in its decision?

26:17 Why are they not challenging this?

26:19 In our country, justice is also being held from both sides.

26:22 I have written that a lot can be rectified.

26:24 These incidents of today,

26:26 whether it is Chairman Tariq Khan, Imran Khan or Barrister Gauhar,

26:31 this is a political scenario of the future.

26:34 Yes, I will say a small thing about NAP.

26:37 When Imran Khan had his own government,

26:40 he used to say that he used to get the file from somewhere else,

26:42 NAP was not in our control.

26:44 Now, he complains about NAP.

26:46 When Imran Khan was in power, he used to improve things.

26:49 Now, all of them have contributed.

26:51 Now, the matter of Chairman Tariq-e-Insaf,

26:53 Barrister Gauhar is a good person.

26:57 He is a decent man.

26:58 He is a decent man.

26:59 The way this Jamaat was running,

27:01 that he fought with everyone,

27:03 and was strict in every place,

27:04 I think his addition can play a positive role.

27:08 Was he made for this reason,

27:09 that a soft man should come,

27:11 and not take on the leaders,

27:12 and the poet should become a poet?

27:13 Look, he is fighting with political opponents.

27:16 If he gets a decision from the court,

27:18 then the battle is open against him.

27:20 The battle is open here as well.

27:21 You should fight with your political opponents.

27:23 You should have given them a tough time

27:25 for the 16 months of politics.

27:26 Their politics should have ended.

27:28 The way their politics has reached the current stage,

27:30 that is also in front of us.

27:31 So, their issue is to fight with everyone.

27:34 If you come to TV programs,

27:36 then first talk to them.

27:37 Mr. Kashif, you don't know anything.

27:38 You don't know how to ask questions.

27:39 So, this attitude has to be changed.

27:41 You will have to do politics in a better way.

27:44 And the second thing that has come out openly,

27:46 once again,

27:47 the differences in the party have come out openly.

27:50 Barrister Gohar's name has come out.

27:51 Some senior people of his core committee say

27:54 that this name was not to come out until yesterday.

27:56 Because a case is filed tomorrow morning

27:58 in Islamabad High Court,

27:59 regarding Tosha Khana.

28:01 If there is relief in that,

28:02 then Mr. Khan will be the candidate.

28:04 Now, this name has been given earlier,

28:06 by Sher Afzal Marwad.

28:07 And they are saying that

28:08 Mr. Marwad has a habit of giving breaking news,

28:10 so we keep stopping him.

28:11 He comes and gives it.

28:12 So, there is a difference in the party too.

28:14 But they will have to think

28:15 how are you taking the Jamaat forward.

28:17 Political Jamaats are moving forward by doing politics.

28:20 Yes, but you,

28:21 there is hope that some change will come.

28:23 Your way of politics will go in the same way.

28:26 The way I interacted with Mr. Gohar,

28:28 it was a very good conversation.

28:29 But the question is,

28:30 can a lawyer who does not have a political background,

28:33 lead the party?

28:35 Not a political background,

28:36 political background.

28:37 People's Party tickets have been late for elections.

28:38 I am saying,

28:39 a leadership background.

28:40 They didn't even vote for you.

28:41 There is no leadership background,

28:43 that the party will lead.

28:44 So, here, in absence of Imran Khan,

28:46 he is leading the party,

28:47 he is the chairman of the party.

28:48 That is not his background,

28:49 leadership background.

28:50 Yes, but he wanted such a person.

28:51 Look, tell me now,

28:52 why was he chosen?

28:53 No, no, second,

28:54 he is related to Khair-e-Pakhtunkhwa.

28:55 We saw Khair-e-Pakhtunkhwa this week too,

28:57 Pakistan Tehrik-e-Jadid did a convention in Dhir,

28:59 did it in Shehzad Sawat.

29:00 In Punjab, the party is completely silent right now.

29:02 So, I think,

29:03 there the party needs to be strengthened more.

29:05 If PTI is saying that we need to make a government,

29:08 then Punjab needs to be strengthened.

29:09 So, how will the people of Punjab

29:11 go with that chairman,

29:13 who is related to KPI,

29:14 this will be very interesting.

29:15 Second,

29:16 today Ali Zafar said,

29:17 that this is an interim appointment,

29:19 that is why we have not kept any important person.

29:21 This is a sign of this.

29:22 So, if there was no interim,

29:23 with all due respect,

29:24 then too, Imran Khan's choice would have been the same.

29:26 I don't know what the insecurity is.

29:28 Look at Buzdard,

29:29 look at Mehmood Khan,

29:30 I think after Parvez Khattak,

29:31 they thought that

29:32 no important person

29:33 will come to the big office.

29:34 Although, they should realize now,

29:35 that no one can run away from them after giving them a party.

29:37 Look, a big leader,

29:39 you have to put in a strong team,

29:41 if you want to win.

29:42 It is possible that Gauhar Ali

29:44 will perform very outstandingly,

29:45 but if your thought is that

29:46 I don't want to make a big personality,

29:48 so that I can sit and control the party,

29:50 whether he is the chief minister,

29:51 or I am in jail,

29:52 and I am leading the party,

29:53 I think this thought will have to change.

29:55 Whether the leader is Bilawal,

29:57 or Nawaz Sharif,

29:58 or Imran Khan,

29:59 they are irreplaceable for us.

30:01 You can make small conspiracies,

30:02 whether Parvez Khattak is separated,

30:04 or Jahangir Tareen is separated,

30:05 or Ali Im Khan is separated,

30:06 but the party,

30:07 the structure will definitely damage you,

30:09 but your popularity will not be damaged.

30:11 So, I think,

30:12 if you think that

30:13 you will be in jail during the election,

30:15 and you have to lead the party,

30:17 you should make a strong political personality,

30:18 there is no harm in that.

30:19 I think, in politics,

30:20 the matter is that

30:21 you should pick him up again,

30:22 he should be arrested in some case,

30:23 and the government should put him back in jail,

30:24 I think that is the point.

30:25 There are two events.

30:26 I will add one more thing.

30:27 He is saying that,

30:28 there is a historical question,

30:29 I will add it.

30:30 He is saying that,

30:31 he did not make a strong personality,

30:32 which he said.

30:33 I think,

30:34 he is saying that,

30:35 he was not made because of his strength,

30:36 but because

30:37 Barrister Gaur is a very strong comrade,

30:38 a very strong comrade,

30:39 and a very important personality of the party,

30:40 so I think,

30:41 he made him with a lot of thought,

30:42 and he did not make him a coward.

30:43 When Barrister Gaur's name came yesterday,

30:44 I thought that

30:45 he is our other guest.

30:46 He has two chants.

30:47 No, no,

30:48 we will do one on one interview.

30:49 He is the chairman of the party.

30:50 Mr. Rana,

30:51 what do you think about today's developments?

30:52 Very good.

30:53 On one hand,

30:54 the court's decision,

30:55 on the other hand,

30:56 the chairman's decision,

30:57 Imran Khan is not there.

30:58 So,

30:59 this is the scenario.

31:00 They say,

31:01 Nawaz Sharif is in,

31:02 Imran Khan is out.

31:03 And,

31:04 on Barrister Gaur,

31:05 like Anwarullah Kakkar's name came,

31:06 he was also your guest,

31:07 and now he is one to one.

31:08 Barrister Gaur does not suit PTI in any way.

31:09 He is not the kind of person who says,

31:10 "Hala la la la la la,

31:11 if you have the power,

31:12 then do it."

31:13 Although,

31:14 there has been a lot of training by him,

31:15 despite this,

31:16 he has not been able to do it.

31:17 He has not been able to do it.

31:18 He has not been able to do it.

31:19 He has not been able to do it.

31:20 He has not been able to do it.

31:21 He has not been able to do it.

31:29 He has not been able to do it.

31:37 He has not been able to do it.

31:42 He has not been able to do it.

31:47 He has not been able to do it.

31:52 He has not been able to do it.

31:57 He has not been able to do it.

32:02 He has not been able to do it.

32:07 He has not been able to do it.

32:12 He has not been able to do it.

32:17 He has not been able to do it.

32:22 He has not been able to do it.

32:27 He has not been able to do it.

32:32 He has not been able to do it.

32:37 He has not been able to do it.

32:42 He has not been able to do it.

32:47 He has not been able to do it.

32:52 He has not been able to do it.

32:57 He has not been able to do it.

33:02 He has not been able to do it.

33:07 He has not been able to do it.

33:12 He has not been able to do it.

33:17 He has not been able to do it.

33:22 He has not been able to do it.

33:27 He has not been able to do it.

33:32 He has not been able to do it.

33:37 He has not been able to do it.

33:42 He has not been able to do it.

33:47 He has not been able to do it.

33:52 He has not been able to do it.

33:57 He has not been able to do it.

34:02 He has not been able to do it.

34:07 He has not been able to do it.

34:12 He has not been able to do it.

34:17 He has not been able to do it.

34:22 He has not been able to do it.

34:27 He has not been able to do it.

34:32 He has not been able to do it.

34:37 He has not been able to do it.

34:42 He has not been able to do it.

34:47 He has not been able to do it.

34:52 He has not been able to do it.

34:57 He has not been able to do it.

35:02 He has not been able to do it.

35:07 He has not been able to do it.

35:12 He has not been able to do it.

35:17 He has not been able to do it.

35:22 He has not been able to do it.

35:27 He has not been able to do it.

35:32 He has not been able to do it.

35:37 He has not been able to do it.

35:42 He has not been able to do it.

35:47 He has not been able to do it.

35:52 He has not been able to do it.

35:57 He has not been able to do it.

36:02 He has not been able to do it.

36:07 He has not been able to do it.

36:12 He has not been able to do it.

36:17 He has not been able to do it.

36:22 He has not been able to do it.

36:27 He has not been able to do it.

36:32 He has not been able to do it.

36:37 He has not been able to do it.

36:42 He has not been able to do it.

36:47 He has not been able to do it.

36:52 He has not been able to do it.

36:57 He has not been able to do it.

37:02 He has not been able to do it.

37:07 He has not been able to do it.

37:12 He has not been able to do it.

37:17 He has not been able to do it.

37:22 He has not been able to do it.

37:27 He has not been able to do it.

37:32 He has not been able to do it.

37:37 He has not been able to do it.

Off The Record | Kashif Abbasi | ARY News | 29th November 2023

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