Richie Frahm joins Dan Dickau and Adam Morrison on Episode 7 of Talking Zags.
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00:00 (upbeat music)
00:02 - Gonzaga Nation talking Zags,
00:08 episode seven, Adam Morrison and myself co-host
00:11 with a special guest today who brought a little bit
00:14 of Gonzaga history here.
00:16 Number 24 from that initial Elite Eight team
00:21 in 1999, Richie Fromm.
00:23 Richie, appreciate you joining.
00:25 - Thanks guys, go Zags man.
00:26 - Yeah, 25 years.
00:28 It's crazy to think.
00:29 You and I have been friends for longer than 25 years,
00:31 but 25 years has been the start of this run for Gonzaga.
00:34 You were a part of it.
00:35 Tell us what the jersey special means to you.
00:38 - Well, 25 years has been a long time.
00:40 And first of all, we did it with minimal resources.
00:44 So it just made it awesome.
00:45 Adam, you were there.
00:46 I believe you were, you know, maybe a ball boy.
00:48 - Was early.
00:49 - So you got to see firsthand, you know,
00:50 how laid back it was around the team.
00:53 So yeah, looking back and seeing how far they've come,
00:55 you know, today is just unbelievable,
00:57 but it is coming up on 25 years.
00:59 And just a plug, January 4th,
01:02 the alumni from that team are going to be back in town.
01:04 They're going to be at that Pepperdine game
01:06 at the Spokane Arena.
01:07 So very special moment to see the guys catch up
01:10 one last time, 'cause it's not going to happen again.
01:13 We're not going to do it at 26 years,
01:14 but this is a very big moment for us and the program,
01:17 you know, because they're also marking, you know,
01:19 25 banners up there.
01:21 And so a lot has changed.
01:22 And I guess we had more time.
01:25 We can talk about, you know,
01:26 the momentum that took place before us.
01:29 And I think a lot of people need to look at the history
01:32 that caused the momentum to happen in '98, '99 and 2000.
01:37 And yeah, it's a different story and a different guess,
01:40 but there was a lot of things that had to happen.
01:41 - So 25 big years later,
01:43 there are lots of different ways
01:45 we're going to take this conversation.
01:46 'Cause yeah, there were times where Gonzaga had good teams,
01:49 but they didn't get to the NCAA tournament,
01:51 namely the year before you guys went there.
01:54 There's been great teams after that.
01:55 But you're telling me Quentin Hall, Axel Dench,
01:59 everybody's going to get to Spokane?
02:01 - Everybody's going to be there.
02:02 And there's been a lot of busy alumni
02:04 reaching out to those guys, but it did start with Axel.
02:08 He kind of got the rumblings going.
02:09 He says, I heard such and such is happening.
02:11 And funny thing is none of us have heard anything.
02:14 And then finally, you know,
02:16 reached out to the athletic department.
02:17 They do have something planned.
02:18 So we're excited.
02:19 And I was like, you know,
02:20 I think everybody wants to be there.
02:21 So, but yeah, it'll be awesome to see everybody
02:23 and their families if they can make it
02:25 and share the stories.
02:26 'Cause we all have a different perspective
02:28 of what took place in '90, '98, '99.
02:31 So it'll be awesome.
02:32 - Yeah, I remember, you know, for me as a ball boy,
02:36 but like as a young Spokane resident,
02:40 that whole start of that run just kind of
02:43 piqued the interest of Gonzaga as a whole.
02:46 Do you think the failures, not failures,
02:49 but like the team before you said you have Bakari Hendricks,
02:52 you had the John Reilly team in '95,
02:54 but like such talented teams.
02:56 Once you guys made the tournament,
02:58 was it just like, you know, Katie bar the door,
03:01 whatever happens, happens?
03:03 Or were you guys excited to be there?
03:04 Or were you guys like, hey,
03:05 'cause you guys got a break with Minnesota.
03:07 - Yep.
03:08 - Having the suspension, right?
03:09 The two best players the night before the game or whatever.
03:12 So what I'm trying to get to is like,
03:14 what was your guys' mindset?
03:15 Were you just like, yes, we made the tournament.
03:17 We got this kind of offer.
03:18 But were you like, hey, no,
03:19 we can actually win some games.
03:20 'Cause you got two breaks, Minnesota,
03:22 and then you're in Seattle.
03:23 - Yep, yep.
03:25 I think that was well-deserved, that Seattle thing.
03:27 'Cause the year before we felt like we got snubbed,
03:29 but that was also a learning lesson.
03:31 So was that '97, '98, we win the league,
03:35 we go into the league tournament,
03:36 don't take care of business.
03:38 And so the championship game,
03:39 I think we lost in San Francisco.
03:40 They go to the tournament, get the at-large,
03:42 or not the at-large, the automatic bid.
03:44 And then we're sitting, you know,
03:45 watching selection Sunday and we're snubbed.
03:47 So we ended up going to the NIT,
03:49 had to be shipped out to Laramie, Wyoming,
03:51 you know, the chip on our shoulder.
03:53 Ended up winning there because we knew
03:54 our next game would be at Hawaii.
03:56 So you got a bunch of, you know, guys
03:57 that wanted to go to Hawaii.
03:59 And so we win the game, go to Hawaii,
04:01 and get beat by a very good Hawaii team.
04:03 And that was a learning lesson
04:05 that we just weren't ready for that stage.
04:07 And so that summer, I think a lot of guys
04:08 just kind of realized, like, this is what it takes.
04:11 And then we did have a catalyst,
04:12 and back to your point about, you know,
04:15 getting to the dance and just not wanting
04:17 to just to be there, was Quentin Hall.
04:19 Quentin Hall, I remember that whole summer,
04:22 he was talking about getting there
04:23 and making noise.
04:24 And, you know, I'm censoring what he would say
04:26 to motivate us, but when we got there,
04:28 they still had Quincy Lewis.
04:30 He was our leading scorer in the Big Ten.
04:31 And so, Quentin Hall being, I don't know,
04:33 five, eight, five, nine, guarded Quincy.
04:35 If you look at that game, Quincy's six, seven, six, eight.
04:38 And just scared him.
04:39 And just every, you know, possession,
04:41 Quentin had that intensity.
04:42 And it built momentum throughout our team.
04:45 And so you had Mike Nielsen diving on the ground,
04:47 Casey Calvert making big plays.
04:49 Everybody played perfect.
04:50 And so the momentum was great.
04:52 We had guys playing their roles.
04:54 We had good size.
04:55 We had a great point guard, Matt Santangelo.
04:57 So it was an awesome team.
04:59 And looking back, it was really kind of bizarre
05:02 to see how Gonzaga put that team together.
05:05 You know, we just had guys fall in the right place,
05:07 the right time, and everybody was healthy
05:09 and motivated and knew their roles.
05:12 - You and I have known each other since like fourth grade.
05:14 We played together growing up.
05:15 And then we played AAU together.
05:17 And Coach Few was an assistant.
05:21 Coach Greer was an assistant under Amantz.
05:23 And they were recruiting you.
05:25 How was your recruitment and how did you get to Gonzaga?
05:27 'Cause I remember you had lots of different options
05:30 and Gonzaga just became the perfect one.
05:32 - You know, it kind of came down to three.
05:34 And it was University of Portland,
05:35 Gonzaga, and then St. Mary's.
05:38 But I didn't have a lot of options.
05:40 Long story short, my junior year, I loved baseball.
05:43 And so I played on a team called Rider Construction,
05:45 Senior Babe Ruth.
05:47 We're down in Wharton, Texas
05:48 in the semifinals against Cincinnati.
05:50 And I fouled one off top of my foot.
05:52 Next pitch, I hit a grounder to the shortstop,
05:53 running to first base, and I hear a loud pop.
05:56 I ended up breaking my ankle.
05:57 So that foul ball prior to that grounder
06:00 fractured my ankle.
06:01 So long story short, I go into my junior year
06:04 of high school and I miss half the season,
06:06 which you know your junior year
06:07 is very important for exposure.
06:09 So I finished my junior year playing on one leg,
06:11 you know, and I'm just trying to shoot everything
06:13 I can touch 'cause I know that's my window.
06:15 And we had a decent team, didn't make it to state,
06:18 so I just didn't have the exposure.
06:19 And then that summer, I was, I hate to say scrambling,
06:22 but I think you and I played on an AAU team,
06:25 went down to Vegas and Phoenix.
06:26 And I think that's where I grabbed my scholarship offers.
06:30 And I was very thankful for those offers.
06:32 Looking back, you never know what could happen
06:35 if you get a healthy junior year,
06:36 but signed, you know, I think my first recruiting trip.
06:39 My mom, she says, "We're gonna go up there
06:43 "and we're gonna surprise Gonzaga.
06:44 "We're not gonna wait for your official visit."
06:46 So we flew up, showed up at the athletic department,
06:48 and didn't wanna have any, you know, show put on for us
06:52 or, you know, try to surprise him, catch him off guard.
06:54 And we saw what we liked,
06:55 and I think they were just coming off that run
06:58 where they lost in that first round to Maryland.
07:00 But John really was, you know, the star of the team.
07:03 I know they had other great players,
07:05 but he played in my position and I liked that.
07:07 And I think they just said,
07:08 "You're gonna have freedom to shoot every ball you want."
07:12 But then I got on campus and found out
07:13 there were some good players ahead of me.
07:14 You know, Lorenzo Rollins, you know,
07:16 he was a big-time scorer, big-time athlete.
07:18 So I had some good mentors when I got on campus.
07:21 And I think a lot of us came on campus
07:23 with good mentors at each position, and that really helped.
07:26 - What was Coach Few like in that recruiting process?
07:29 'Cause he was an assistant.
07:30 - So first of all, Coach Few is a Hall of Fame coach.
07:34 Awesome, right?
07:35 But everybody has their beginning,
07:35 and his beginning started before us.
07:37 And so I was just kind of doing some research
07:39 with Eric Edelstein.
07:41 And I think he has a story, if you get him on a show,
07:44 he coached the walk-ons, or redshirts, back in like 1989, '90.
07:49 And that was Gonzaga's last losing season.
07:52 They were like eight and 28.
07:53 And so the coach at the time,
07:56 redshirted pretty much the whole team.
07:57 And he left Jim McPhee to fend for himself.
07:59 And he might have averaged 20-something points a game,
08:01 but it was a losing team.
08:03 But they did it to keep all those redshirts together
08:05 and then grow the program afterwards.
08:08 But yeah, looking at him now, he's a Hall of Fame coach.
08:11 But when I was there, you know, that was a long time ago.
08:15 I think he knew two shooting drills.
08:16 You know, we like to say flex jumpers and rainbow jumpers,
08:19 you know, and then balls in the air, your feet in the air.
08:22 So, you know, we kind of butted heads a couple of times
08:24 'cause I knew some other shooting drills.
08:25 But looking back, he really, you know,
08:28 knew how to motivate us.
08:29 And that was really important
08:30 because he got us ready for the games.
08:32 And he also made sure we worked hard,
08:33 even though the drills were fairly simple,
08:35 they were, you know, come out and get your work in.
08:37 And we did.
08:39 - So I was actually just down in Portland randomly,
08:42 and I ran into Coach Mons at a shoot around
08:44 in Long Beach State.
08:46 So like, I was gonna piggyback off of that.
08:49 He was a screamer and yeller, right?
08:51 - Yeah. - Coach Mons.
08:52 So I always heard from the year, you know,
08:55 you guys go lead eight, and then he goes to the Minnesota,
08:58 gets the Minnesota job, and then FUE takes over.
09:00 I heard that first year,
09:01 FUE kind of just rolled the ball out there for you guys
09:03 'cause you had such a good,
09:04 was that, is that true or not?
09:07 - I like to see it that way.
09:09 We had what, five seniors?
09:10 - You had five seniors who were already good,
09:11 so you kind of was just like, here you go.
09:13 - Santangelo was our coach and our star player,
09:15 so that worked out good.
09:17 - So what was like the dynamic going from, you know,
09:19 a yeller and then to like, hey guys, go get 'em.
09:22 - It was kinda, yeah, it was kind of bizarre, I guess.
09:25 Mons and did lead, we found out in the summer.
09:28 I wasn't around campus, and so I heard it from my parents.
09:31 I was, funny story, I was driving my girlfriend at the time,
09:35 my wife now, down to meet my parents for the first time.
09:38 And so we show up, I'm excited to introduce Joni
09:41 to my parents, and they come running out,
09:43 hey, hey, hey, you hear the news?
09:45 I'm like, no, I didn't hear the news.
09:46 Says Monson's going to Minnesota, so I was like, oh, really?
09:49 And I was like, by the way, here's my girlfriend.
09:52 So yeah, it came with, you know,
09:54 it was like secondary news for me,
09:56 but yeah, back to your point, Coach Few came in,
09:59 and you know, Monson basically was grooming those guys.
10:04 So you had Billy Greer, you know, ran our defense.
10:06 - Yep, he was our defensive coach.
10:07 - He was our defensive guy, yeah,
10:08 and so with your program,
10:10 and then Coach Few was our offensive guy.
10:12 And so we liked that.
10:13 So you have an offensive guy moving to the head coaching job,
10:15 what are you going to do?
10:16 - Yeah, that's a good point.
10:17 - It's just going to be full throttle, you know,
10:18 and so you're just hoping you could just live up to that.
10:21 But no, it was no hiccups,
10:23 and I'd be curious to hear his point of view,
10:25 how he felt moving from, you know, one seat to the next.
10:29 But I was really glad that we were able to get back
10:31 to the dance and, you know,
10:33 keep the momentum going for another year.
10:34 And then he just took off and did what he did
10:36 and brought Dan on board, Adam on board,
10:38 and all these, you know, these legends that you look out
10:41 and see that that's come through the program.
10:43 - Well, I know when I transferred from U-Dub to Gonzaga,
10:46 obviously you and I were friends,
10:48 so we talked occasionally throughout that season
10:51 leading up to your Elite Eight run.
10:53 And then when I was thinking about transferring,
10:55 you continuously told me,
10:58 "Monson's the head coach, but Coach Few runs a lot of it."
11:00 And you felt as if Monson did leave,
11:03 Fewey would take over.
11:06 When he did take over, you said he's an offensive coach,
11:09 you felt like it was gonna create opportunities.
11:12 Did you guys at any point question anything about that?
11:18 Or did you really like, glad they stayed in-house,
11:22 didn't go outside of the Gonzaga family,
11:24 so to speak at the time?
11:25 - Yeah, it's the devil you know, right?
11:27 So I'm glad they kept it in-house.
11:29 He did come in and do some changes.
11:30 And remember we had a hard time grasping that, you know,
11:32 we went away from our flex offense
11:35 and we started doing more motion stuff that they do now.
11:38 So that was a learning curve for us
11:39 because, you know, the flex is very black and white.
11:42 You know, the ball should be here, the guy goes there.
11:44 There was a couple of switch counters,
11:46 which was great for our personnel in big games.
11:48 If you look back, you know,
11:50 we didn't get nervous towards the end
11:51 'cause we knew what we had to do.
11:52 It's like, you know,
11:53 I didn't have freedom to do other things.
11:55 And so somebody switches, dribble over,
11:57 pass there, double away, you're done.
11:59 And you know where your shots are coming from.
12:00 We had five guys on the floor, could all hit that shot.
12:03 So it gave us confidence running that.
12:05 But then when Pugh came, we're like,
12:06 "Uh-oh, now we're exposed.
12:07 "I have to dribble more than twice,
12:09 "or I gotta do this."
12:11 And yeah, so then he started recruiting players
12:13 that could fit that offense.
12:14 But yeah, definitely glad, you know,
12:16 they kept the hire in-house.
12:19 - So obviously, like I mentioned earlier,
12:22 I'm from here, I ball boyed, I obviously played.
12:25 I was one of the last guys to play
12:27 in the Kennel and McCarthy.
12:30 When you go to games now,
12:31 and maybe this is not, might upset some people,
12:36 do you feel the drop in atmosphere?
12:39 We have a great atmosphere compared
12:40 to what the old Kennel was like.
12:42 Now I'm not saying ours is not top five in the country,
12:45 but like, I don't think the new fan understands
12:48 how vile, in a good way, the student section used to be.
12:52 - That's a great question.
12:53 - And how much it used to be a true advantage.
12:57 And I understand now there's political correctness,
13:01 which is a good thing.
13:02 You don't wanna be too rude to people.
13:03 And then the university's in charge of the Kennel Club.
13:06 Back then it was, those kids went to a kegger.
13:09 (laughing)
13:10 And then they found out like who your girlfriend was.
13:12 Like, it was before social media.
13:14 So people actually like researched,
13:16 like explain to the average fan,
13:19 like how much of a home court advantage
13:21 the Kennel used to be.
13:22 - Oh, it was huge.
13:23 And they used that as their recruiting advantage.
13:26 But let me just paint a picture for you.
13:27 So the Martin Center, I don't know what it sat,
13:30 but it was like basically bleachers.
13:32 - It was a four?
13:33 - 4,000.
13:34 - Four, yeah.
13:35 - And so maybe my freshman, sophomore year,
13:36 there were some empty seats in there.
13:39 But if you had that place rocking,
13:41 or if somebody hit a slam dunk or something,
13:44 that backboard starts to swing.
13:45 - Start moving.
13:46 - You know, because it was fixed to the wall.
13:48 - And then the chains.
13:48 - And so yeah, so that would start swaying.
13:50 And then so you either had to call a timeout,
13:52 or if they didn't, the opponent had a hard time scoring.
13:54 Well, you had a hard time scoring.
13:56 And so looking back, that was definitely a huge event.
13:58 Moving into the new McCarthy Center is definitely a risk,
14:02 but they had to do it.
14:03 - Yeah.
14:04 - And I don't know, what is it, 6,000 seats?
14:06 - Yeah, it's still a great fan base.
14:08 But my point is like the students have a chance
14:13 that they always do.
14:14 And when I played, it was a little more,
14:18 you know, politically incorrect.
14:19 And I know it's different nowadays.
14:21 And you know, what do they say?
14:23 Sports is the front porch of your university.
14:26 But like when I played in the Kennel my freshman year,
14:28 like it was so loud.
14:30 And then like if you had bad grades,
14:33 or like they used to have guys that were like balding,
14:35 they'd chant Rogaine every time they touched it.
14:38 Like it was so like, you could tell.
14:41 - They made it personal.
14:42 - Personal, like if you shot an air ball in there,
14:44 every time you touched the rest of the game,
14:46 they're chanting air ball.
14:47 And so my point is like the old Kennel,
14:50 you guys especially got like the best part
14:53 of Gonzaga basketball from a home court standpoint.
14:57 I was lucky enough to play in both.
14:58 And I always tell people about that because it is special,
15:02 but it was a different beast, man.
15:05 - It was the loudest gym.
15:07 There's only one gym louder that I've ever played in
15:10 than the Martin Center.
15:11 It was a gym in Germany, Yako Arena, Bonn.
15:15 They have fireworks going.
15:16 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:17 The firms and all those are different, like soccer firms.
15:20 - Yes, yes.
15:21 - Caveat to that.
15:22 - But I can't remember a louder gym at the college level.
15:25 - Yeah, I remember we played San Francisco
15:27 my freshman year and it was Coach Matthews,
15:30 Jordan Matthews' dad was a coach at the time.
15:32 We won like a 15-0 run.
15:33 He literally took his seat and sat like where the wall is at
15:37 and didn't even talk to his team.
15:38 - Wow.
15:39 - Just, you know, but the whole time, like, and I just,
15:42 and it was funny, like the locker room was a dump.
15:45 You walked five feet from the hallway to the thing.
15:50 There was no end zone, right?
15:52 It was just, anyway, the kennel, good stories.
15:55 Talking to you guys is like old zags.
15:58 - Yeah, I mean, sometimes I make it a point to walk that way
16:02 through the kennel before I go to the Martin Center
16:04 'cause it brings back so many good memories.
16:05 One of my, my first memory of ever being in that gym,
16:07 Richie, was you and I going to the gym late at night
16:11 when I was at UW and you picked me up at the hotel
16:14 and we went and shot for like an hour
16:15 the night before the game.
16:17 What was your, what was your, like,
16:20 way to improve your skills?
16:22 'Cause you showed up, like you said,
16:23 you had injuries your junior year.
16:25 You were a great shooter,
16:28 but you worked on your athleticism,
16:30 you worked on your game to get to the point
16:32 where you were all league
16:33 and you made it in the NBA for four years.
16:35 - Yeah, you know, the big adjustment
16:36 from high school to college is strength and conditioning,
16:38 you know, and you don't realize that.
16:40 So everybody, you know, you're a senior in high school
16:42 and you think you're, you know, the next such and such.
16:44 And then you show up on campus
16:45 and everybody's good for five minutes of warmups,
16:48 but once you start getting contact and practice,
16:50 they start breaking you down.
16:51 And I like to tell people, I was like, you know,
16:53 how are you gonna find your starting five, you know,
16:55 every year?
16:56 And it's like, you know,
16:57 practices will work themselves out, you know,
16:58 and players know how to work themselves out.
16:59 You know, if you, you know,
17:00 when you're up against somebody that's better than you,
17:02 unless, you know, you, you know,
17:04 you want to challenge yourself every day,
17:05 but at the same time, things sort themselves out.
17:07 So, but for me, you know, it was kind of organic.
17:10 You know, I came in and I think I,
17:12 I didn't redshirt, obviously.
17:13 So I played what, 10, 15 minutes a game
17:15 and I played behind Lorenzo
17:16 and we didn't have a whole lot of success,
17:19 but I did have a couple of games where I felt more confident
17:21 but my first shot, my first game was hilarious.
17:24 I think I just caught a fast break pass
17:27 and I turned around and shot it.
17:28 And then if it was an NBA backboard,
17:30 I would have hit Jerry West.
17:32 You know, it was a complete air ball.
17:33 And I remember Fitz, you know, at the time,
17:35 Dan Fitzgerald, watching film the next day,
17:38 he just started laughing and paused it,
17:39 rewound it, played it again.
17:41 And he says, that was gonna be funny, you know,
17:42 in three years.
17:43 And you look back on this and,
17:44 and then there was another moment.
17:46 So we went down to Southern Utah and played
17:48 and we got beat and getting on the bus,
17:51 you know, everybody's got their head down.
17:53 And I hear this laughing from the coaching staff
17:55 and all of a sudden the bus stops
17:57 and he's looking at the box score and he says,
17:59 we have a freshman shooting eight shots
18:01 and our all American Paul Rogers shooting like six.
18:04 He says, what the heck's going on here?
18:06 Now I played maybe seven or eight minutes,
18:07 but I just thought, you know, you recruited me to shoot,
18:09 but you know, one for eight's not gonna get it done.
18:12 - So you played for Fitzy then?
18:13 - I played for three coaches in four years.
18:15 So yeah, it was kind of a grand tour.
18:17 So awesome to be connected with the Fitz era.
18:21 And you know, a quick story about him is like,
18:23 we'd go to Loyola Marymount for shoot around
18:25 and Kurt Rambis was somehow associated
18:27 with Loyola Marymount at the time, played there obviously.
18:30 And Fitz would start his hello handshake on the bus.
18:35 So I mean, that hand would come back here,
18:36 he'd get off the bus and go over to Kurt Rambis
18:39 and give him a hug and just like that,
18:41 that energy that he would bring.
18:42 And so, yeah, he was an awesome coach
18:44 to have my freshman year.
18:45 He did not like freshmen and he also didn't like
18:48 losing the jump ball.
18:49 If you lost a jump ball-
18:50 - The jump ball?
18:50 - Yeah, he would turn and say, "Game over."
18:52 - Game over.
18:52 - Game over, time out, we're done.
18:54 - Yeah, he like had a weird thing with it.
18:56 Like he hated it.
18:57 Like he would like-
18:58 - So he'd have the seven footer regardless
19:00 of who was good or not at start.
19:01 - Yeah, and he would turn and say like, "Game over."
19:04 - Game over.
19:04 - Like Billy Greer's told me that story.
19:06 Leon's told it from Billy's perspective.
19:08 Yeah.
19:09 - Wow.
19:10 - Like it's actual thing.
19:11 - Wow.
19:12 - Gosh.
19:12 - Unbelievable.
19:13 - Another thing to point on, when Munson was our coach,
19:17 my junior or sophomore year,
19:19 we went to the top of the world classic in Fairbanks.
19:21 That's when we first beat Clemson, they were number five.
19:24 But the first round we were playing against Tulsa.
19:27 And so, you know, just coming up to that game,
19:29 he was just, I think he kicked us out of our locker room.
19:32 Just because he just didn't think we're very good.
19:33 So Munson was just hard on us going up to that tournament.
19:36 And I remember we went into half and correct me if I'm wrong,
19:39 we were up like 38 to 10 in that first round up there.
19:42 And we would just went in there,
19:43 just grin and wait for him to say something.
19:45 You know, we just wanted to challenge our coach.
19:47 Like, come on, go ahead and say something now.
19:47 - Yeah, you say something now.
19:49 - You know, but I don't know what was said,
19:50 but we went out and I think we, yeah,
19:52 obviously won the tournament.
19:53 And then Dick Vitell acknowledged us on ESPN and to us,
19:56 that was like winning the national championship.
19:58 - Yeah.
19:58 - So that was kind of our breakout moment.
20:00 And then shortly after that,
20:01 went to Michigan State and lost at the buzzer
20:04 at East Lansing.
20:05 And so we started building this momentum
20:07 and this confidence in tough, tough games.
20:09 - One of the things I think is amazing about the program
20:13 is that it was built on primarily Northwest guys.
20:16 Like if you look at your team,
20:18 yeah, you have Uxall Dench,
20:20 yeah, you have Quentin Hall,
20:21 but the majority of guys,
20:23 yourself and Matt were from the Portland area,
20:26 Casey Calvary and Jeremy Eaton,
20:31 Mike Floyd or Mike Nilsen, Ryan Floyd,
20:33 all Washington guys.
20:35 How much pride did you guys have in that?
20:37 And then when you look at how the rosters are built now,
20:40 do you ever see that happening again?
20:43 - I don't think so.
20:44 They have more resources,
20:46 but no, at the time that was definitely a sense of pride.
20:48 'Cause I think a lot of us wanted to go to the Pac-10,
20:51 it would be dumb for not saying that.
20:53 And so when we got there,
20:54 we were just waiting to play and show what we can do.
20:57 But yeah, I don't think that's something
21:00 that a program should do nowadays.
21:02 So much talent out there,
21:03 and then you got the resources with social media.
21:06 And then, yeah, it's definitely,
21:08 they're doing a good job recruiting now.
21:09 But at the time, I don't know what their budget was.
21:11 That could have been a big issue.
21:13 Coach, you can only drive so many miles to recruit.
21:16 So, but yeah, it was definitely special.
21:19 But yeah, Axel, I think he got to campus
21:22 through Paul Rogers, who was here at the time.
21:24 I don't know how Paul got here,
21:26 but I like to ask Axel,
21:28 'cause I was like, how many letters
21:29 and how many phone calls did you get when you got recruited?
21:31 He says, one.
21:32 He says, I got one call and offer and I showed up.
21:34 And I was like, okay, so I can't talk to you.
21:36 That's not exciting.
21:37 And then Quentin, I think he came through a junior college
21:40 with Leon Rice somewhere.
21:42 And so there was a connection to the Northwest there.
21:45 But yeah, other than that,
21:46 a lot of guys slipped through the cracks
21:48 and pieces fell together, I guess.
21:50 - One call to Axel Dantzsch and it gets it done.
21:53 - Yeah.
21:54 - When you need a scully, you need a scully.
21:55 I mean, Guns Egg was built to piggyback off
21:59 of what you said.
22:00 It's not just the Northwest's self-made players.
22:02 And that was always kind of, I think the pride aspect
22:06 as a fan growing up and then going to the school,
22:09 obviously was, you know, Richie,
22:12 I still do a drill with my daughter's group.
22:14 We call it the Richie Fromm drill.
22:15 And I don't know, I've done it.
22:17 I did it with you when I was working out
22:18 and you were in the NBA.
22:20 But he was always, I always saw him after his career, right?
22:24 So like, it was always the stories of self-made guys.
22:28 So that was always the, I think the true genesis
22:31 of the program was guys that, man,
22:33 I couldn't get into the Pac-10.
22:34 I know I'm good enough.
22:35 I had to transfer, right?
22:37 And then boom, they make themselves good players.
22:39 Obviously that forms with a good team
22:41 and then lightning in a bottle.
22:42 And then now look where we're at.
22:44 But it was always fascinating to see Casey used to come back.
22:48 Richie used to come back.
22:49 I played with you in open runs.
22:51 You know what I mean?
22:52 And you guys are all before my time.
22:54 But it was always guys that truly loved the program,
22:57 truly loved hoops, and then felt like,
23:00 hey, I should have been recruited higher,
23:01 had a little bit chip on their shoulder.
23:03 So as a guy that came after,
23:07 that was always something I held true that felt good.
23:11 Was like, you know what, I'm gonna come back,
23:12 no matter where I am in my career,
23:14 I'm still play with these guys 'cause you guys did it.
23:17 And you guys were all self-made players.
23:19 That's, I think, one of the biggest differences
23:21 from other programs that have had success,
23:24 not just the local aspect,
23:26 but guys that are chip on their shoulder types.
23:28 - Yeah. - Yeah.
23:29 I mean, I know I took it as,
23:31 made it a point to come back and work out in the summers,
23:34 even when I didn't live here.
23:35 And other guys do it now.
23:37 You know, there's been so many talented players
23:39 that have come through this program.
23:41 To me, the one, and I wanna hear both of you guys think,
23:44 give me your opinion on who you think
23:46 slipped through the cracks to get to the next level.
23:48 I think, we've talked about Blake to a certain extent,
23:51 but that was injuries.
23:52 I thought Casey was missed on by the NBA.
23:55 He shot it well enough from deep.
23:58 And if you put him in an NBA training camp
24:01 where it's down to him and another guy,
24:03 Casey's gonna beat the hell out of that other guy.
24:05 And he's gonna be the last man standing.
24:07 How about you guys?
24:08 - You played with him.
24:10 He was the toughest guy I've used to play open run with.
24:14 A little bit crazy up here, and I mean that in a good way.
24:17 So I always was wondering
24:18 why he never got more camp invites after.
24:21 Didn't he go to Utah or something like that?
24:23 - I think so.
24:24 - He played overseas, had a great career overseas,
24:26 but I always thought he should have given it
24:27 another whirl or at least get another shot or played.
24:30 There was a CBA, there wasn't a G League.
24:33 But yeah, you're super talented,
24:36 could jump out of the gym athletically, was there,
24:39 could space the floor, and then he had a screw loose,
24:41 and I mean that in a good way.
24:42 But tough enough to make a team,
24:44 and then tough enough to be like,
24:45 all right, I might not play tonight,
24:47 but I'll be the 14th guy,
24:49 but I will, if I wanna get in, I'll fight somebody.
24:51 You want your 15th, 13th, 12th guy to be that.
24:55 - You gotta be that if you're that.
24:56 - You have to.
24:57 So yeah, I agree.
24:58 - I mean, I remember the Casey Calvary dunk,
25:00 it was your senior year against Kenya Martin in Cincinnati.
25:05 He was the number one pick of the draft,
25:06 and Casey just cut back, cut out,
25:07 I think Matt hit him on a backdoor pass,
25:09 dunked on him, and Casey just looked at it like,
25:11 no big deal, I've done this a hundred times.
25:13 - Yeah, no, just, I agree with you.
25:16 I think Matt and Casey, both guys,
25:18 but it's something that I can look back on,
25:21 and I realize guys like that,
25:23 we didn't have a lot of NBA players ahead of us,
25:26 so we didn't know how that process worked.
25:29 And so those guys had great college careers,
25:31 had great options overseas.
25:33 So if you're not drafted, you know there's a window
25:35 where you have to take those contracts overseas.
25:37 So, and they might disagree,
25:39 but looking from my perspective,
25:40 I didn't have those 'cause I broke my foot
25:42 in Portsmouth, Virginia a couple weeks
25:44 after my last game at Gonzaga.
25:46 And so I was going into interviews
25:48 with the NBA teams on crutches.
25:49 So for me, I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna get drafted,
25:52 I'm not getting offers overseas 'cause I can't play.
25:54 These guys had offers, they had opportunities
25:56 to make significant salaries,
25:59 and so I think they took those, and so they left.
26:01 And so they weren't here
26:03 because the best ability is availability.
26:05 And so they weren't here for summer leagues,
26:06 they weren't here for late call-ups for training camp.
26:09 I was, and so I was able to knock on the door
26:11 three years in a row without having anything
26:14 to pull me overseas, I didn't have that.
26:15 Because overseas, there's a lot of guys at my position,
26:17 and so they don't pay guys like me significant salaries.
26:21 So for me to stay home, put in the work,
26:23 every year I got closer and closer,
26:25 and then I got a great opportunity in Seattle.
26:27 And I still like to tell this story,
26:29 I was a 26-year-old rookie,
26:31 but I got called into Nate McMillan's office
26:32 at the end of training camp.
26:34 And it was between me, Matt Barnes,
26:36 Mikey Moore, and Jason Hart.
26:38 And so three guys that had careers, eight, nine, 10 years,
26:41 and so we're all down to one available spot.
26:44 And so I'm just looking at the wall,
26:45 I'm like, I'm not gonna make it.
26:47 But McMillan called me into his office,
26:48 and I'd been cut three years previous
26:50 with the Trailblazers and other teams,
26:52 and he says, "We're gonna keep ya."
26:55 And so here I am sitting in my practice gear
26:57 on a faux leather sofa, and just like,
27:00 "Oh my gosh, what?
27:01 "What did you just say?"
27:02 He says, "We're gonna keep ya."
27:03 And so afterward, he says, "Go tell your family."
27:06 So I got out of that meeting,
27:07 and I couldn't get ahold of anybody in my family.
27:10 They were all shopping somewhere in Seattle,
27:11 my parents were in town, and the story gets funny,
27:15 because eventually I got ahold of my wife and my parents,
27:19 and I was like, "All right, I made the team,"
27:20 which is unbelievable, dream come true,
27:22 I put a lot of work in, but now I gotta get on a bus
27:25 to go play a practice game at Seattle Pacific.
27:27 And so we had to get on the bus and go play a game,
27:30 and then a week later we had to go to Japan.
27:32 So the irony of it all is that I made the NBA,
27:35 but my first NBA game was back overseas.
27:37 (laughing)
27:38 - That is brief.
27:39 - So I'm headed off to Japan,
27:40 and we're playing at the Saitama Superdome,
27:43 and I'm with the Sonics playing against the Clippers,
27:45 and played back-to-back games,
27:47 and was teammates with Luke Ridenour and Nick Coles.
27:49 But yeah, Casey and Matt were guys
27:53 that definitely were NBA talent players.
27:55 And another point is I ended up playing
27:58 a couple parts of seasons in the D League,
28:00 and I realized then and there there's a lot of guys
28:03 that are good enough to be on the NBA bench.
28:05 But that 12th, 13th, 14th spot on a team
28:08 is the hardest one to make,
28:09 because there's so much parity,
28:11 there's so many guys that can fill that role.
28:13 And so you really gotta be available,
28:14 you gotta have the right representation,
28:16 and you gotta be ready,
28:17 and you just can't be overconfident.
28:19 You just gotta be ready to go.
28:20 So that's my advice for guys moving up,
28:22 and I think Malachi, he's in the D League,
28:24 played well, and some other guys
28:26 that are knocking on the door.
28:27 And you start hearing rumors about teams giving you a call,
28:30 but just don't believe it.
28:30 Just keep going about your job,
28:32 and let the chips fall where they may.
28:34 That's it.
28:35 - You had a 30-point game as a rookie, didn't you?
28:37 - I did.
28:38 - Tell us about that one,
28:39 'cause I've heard the story from you before.
28:40 - It's a good story.
28:41 So that first year in Seattle,
28:43 I was on a non-guaranteed contract.
28:45 So people might not know there's a deadline to those.
28:48 So January 10th is when all non-guaranteed contracts
28:51 become guaranteed.
28:52 So that game, I believe, was somewhere in December.
28:55 It was at Denver, and we had like eight guys in uniform.
28:58 So looking back, I was like,
29:00 this is a great opportunity for me.
29:01 And Seattle, we had a good thing going.
29:03 Our second unit was really dialed in.
29:05 Ray Allen was injured, so there was opportunities
29:07 just to fill in minutes at the two guard.
29:09 And I missed my first shot and then made my next 10.
29:12 So I was 10 for 11.
29:13 - Nice.
29:14 - And I was going against one of my teammates, Brent Berry,
29:17 who wasn't playing that night.
29:18 He was going against his brother, John Berry.
29:19 And so I was like, I'm gonna go after this guy.
29:21 And so every time I got the shot, I was just shooting,
29:23 because I was like, he's not gonna block my shot.
29:25 I just felt comfortable going against somebody's brother
29:27 for some reason.
29:28 And John ended up getting a technical, grabbing my jersey,
29:31 and we went at it a little bit.
29:33 And then Vashon Leonard, Carmelo was there.
29:35 And so 31 points.
29:36 So here's the best story.
29:37 I come into the locker room,
29:39 and the GM at the time, Rick Sund,
29:42 came over and says, "Congratulations,
29:43 "we're gonna keep you."
29:44 And then he said something along the lines of,
29:48 "Good season."
29:48 I was like, "What are you talking about?
29:49 "It's December."
29:50 Well, sure enough, Ray Allen came back with his injury.
29:52 I went to the bench.
29:54 And then I got to play a few games at the end of the year
29:56 when we were mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.
29:58 But it was a good feeling.
29:59 So it's just like, oh my gosh, I made it.
30:01 - Yeah, you gotta guarantee money, huh?
30:02 - Yeah, because I was like day to day at practice,
30:04 like, okay, looking over my shoulder.
30:06 It was like, what's going on here?
30:07 'Cause I came from overseas where things are very unstable.
30:10 And so--
30:11 - My favorite word in overseas basketball is tomorrow.
30:13 Pay you tomorrow.
30:14 - Pay you tomorrow, right?
30:15 - Pay you tomorrow.
30:16 - Yeah, and then sometimes--
30:17 - I heard that a lot.
30:17 - And then sometimes they forget your name.
30:19 So I'm like, well, hold on, what?
30:21 - Pay you tomorrow.
30:22 - Pay you tomorrow, yeah.
30:23 I'm sure--
30:23 - Tomorrow.
30:24 - You had one stint in Turkey, right?
30:25 - I did Turkey and Serbia.
30:26 - Oh, really?
30:27 And Serbia.
30:28 - Turkey paid, Besiktas paid.
30:30 - You were in a good team there, yeah.
30:32 - Yeah, they were a good team.
30:33 But it was Red Star, but the FMP took over,
30:36 so it was a little bit different.
30:37 It's not the Red Star that everybody knows.
30:38 It was the Red Star that died and FMP bought it,
30:41 so we were in transition.
30:43 So yeah, favorite word was tomorrow.
30:44 - Tomorrow.
30:45 - Tomorrow.
30:46 - I missed some payments when I was in Italy
30:47 for a short stretch too.
30:48 - I missed, everybody has.
30:49 The best advice for overseas guys, and I did it,
30:52 is when I land, I want a certain amount of money
30:54 right in my hand before I go anywhere else.
30:57 And that's the, you have to.
30:57 - Yeah, I screwed that one up.
30:59 - And I want the serial numbers printed out
31:01 of the $100 bills.
31:02 (laughing)
31:03 That's what I did, because you never know.
31:05 - We had the same agent.
31:06 Why didn't he give me that?
31:07 Oh, it's because you went over after me,
31:09 so he probably, 'cause I didn't have it.
31:10 - Yeah, that's what I did, so anyway.
31:12 - Yeah, yeah.
31:14 That's a whole 'nother experience for me.
31:16 - It's better now, obviously,
31:17 and there's ways you can combat that stuff,
31:20 but it can be rough payment-wise.
31:23 And it's not like they're just doing it
31:25 'cause you're an American.
31:26 They literally get sponsorships for a month a month,
31:29 and that's what, so they're waiting for a check to clear,
31:32 so you're waiting for their check to clear,
31:33 and it's a vicious cycle.
31:35 The manager's not getting paid.
31:37 It's just, yeah, so it can be really interesting.
31:40 It tests your love for the game of basketball a lot.
31:44 - And it's not what the average fan thinks.
31:47 They think, oh, you're going to Italy to go play.
31:49 You're going to Turkey.
31:50 - Tax-free.
31:51 - Two practices a day.
31:52 - My favorite part is it's tax-free.
31:54 It's like, when you come back,
31:55 Uncle Sam is getting their portion of what you made.
31:58 Like, that is the biggest false.
32:00 - It is a fallacy.
32:01 - Like, tax-free over there, okay, but anyway.
32:04 - And how about, what countries did you play in?
32:07 - Started out in the Philippines.
32:08 So, Philippines with Coach Bill Baino.
32:10 So, I was in the ABA when they were trying to play
32:13 with the red, white, and blue basketball,
32:14 and my coach, Bill Baino, at the time,
32:16 he kind of saw the writing on the walls,
32:18 like, this isn't going to last,
32:19 so he started networking a job,
32:21 and he can take two Americans,
32:22 and so after our practices in Phoenix,
32:24 I would go to his door every day,
32:26 'cause I just got married, he's like, I need a job.
32:28 So, and he's like, okay, well, I got other guys in mind,
32:31 'cause everybody wants a job.
32:32 So, ended up going to the Philippines with him,
32:34 and that was awesome, because Baino was like an NBA coach,
32:37 and he's one of the best player development coaches.
32:40 So, when we got over there, he says, you're on your own,
32:42 you know, and don't lay the ball up.
32:44 Every time you get a chance, you dunk it.
32:46 You know, in every game, you know,
32:47 you're being aggressive, you know.
32:49 So, he was a good mentor early in my career,
32:50 and then from there, I went to Turkey,
32:52 and so I was in Istanbul for a good club team.
32:55 - Istanbul, awesome, awesome.
32:56 - Yep, Istanbul, and then after that,
32:59 I went to the NBA, then went back to Italy,
33:02 and got to play in a beautiful place,
33:03 Murcia, no, I'm just saying, Treviso.
33:06 So, nice town that was surrounded
33:08 by kind of a castle wall and a moat,
33:10 kind of Little Venice is what they call it.
33:12 So, I was gonna ask you, so some of these places
33:14 we played at, you know, are you guys thinking
33:17 you'd love to go back as a tourist?
33:18 Because I know when we were there, two practices a day,
33:20 you didn't have a day to go travel.
33:22 - Or hardly saw anything.
33:23 - Yeah, the energy to explore.
33:25 So, that's something that I kind of have on my bucket list,
33:27 and I know my wife, she really loved Turkey,
33:29 and then we went back to Turkey,
33:31 to the other side of the country,
33:32 we were in Mersin, so down by Syria,
33:34 and so you saw a different part of Turkey,
33:37 and that's kind of the bookend of my career, really.
33:40 You know, Turkey and Turkey, nine years in between,
33:42 and I played against my first coach nine years later,
33:46 and I played against his son, so it was cool
33:49 because he was a big doubter for me playing in the NBA,
33:52 and the year after I played for him,
33:54 in 2001 or 2002, I made it,
33:57 so I wanted to come back and tell him.
33:58 Just like the Zagway, you got that chip on your shoulder,
34:00 you're like, you know what, I made it.
34:01 - Yeah.
34:02 Yeah, I'd love to go back, not to the city
34:06 I was planning on in Italy, 'cause that wasn't a good,
34:09 that wasn't vetted out well, and my wife,
34:13 she could write a book on the stories
34:15 that we went through in a six-week period,
34:16 but it would be fun to go back
34:18 to the place we were in Germany for a bit.
34:20 Would you go back?
34:22 - Istanbul's an awesome city, man, great food.
34:24 Actually, Belgrade was great, too.
34:27 Yeah, the only issues I ever had
34:30 was just getting the money owed.
34:34 I played, those clubs were stable
34:35 compared to a lot of other clubs, and the leagues were,
34:38 so the money owed wasn't that bad
34:41 compared to some of the horror stories,
34:43 but Istanbul's a beautiful city, it's so big,
34:45 and it's westernized enough so you feel safe
34:50 in certain areas, and some areas,
34:52 they're like, don't go there.
34:54 Okay, you know what I mean, it's that type of deal,
34:56 but it's beautiful, a lot of culture, history,
34:59 it's pretty cool, so I'd go back just to check it out,
35:03 but like I said, the fans there are fantastic.
35:06 European basketball, the firms I mentioned that earlier
35:08 are different, it's comparable to what the Kennel Club is,
35:13 but if you get into the bigger Euroleague games,
35:15 it gets wild, 'cause it's soccer firms,
35:17 if that makes sense to the listeners.
35:19 But yeah, I'd go back.
35:21 - Yeah.
35:22 The buzzword right now is NIL and conference realignment.
35:28 What are your thoughts on both of those?
35:31 - I don't know the details of that,
35:32 but could you imagine, I guess my concern
35:35 would be the dynamics in the locker room,
35:38 because if somebody's getting such and such NIL,
35:41 how does that feel?
35:42 'Cause being a professional athlete in the NBA,
35:45 one player's making what, 30 or 45% of the payroll,
35:49 so it does, the responsibility put on that player,
35:52 and then also, I don't know, it's a tough one,
35:55 so I don't know where this evolves to.
35:57 I am happy to see compensation for college athletes,
36:00 because I do know that there is revenue going
36:03 from TV rights and such and such,
36:05 and also, when I was in the NBA, I served as a union rep,
36:07 and so I got to see a little bit of the revenue
36:10 that was handed around there, and I was like,
36:11 there's some money in the NBA that's floating around,
36:13 there's definitely gotta be some in the college level.
36:15 I know the NIL's separate from each school,
36:18 but I don't know how this is gonna evolve,
36:19 but it is a factor on how teams are able to recruit,
36:24 so that's a big challenge.
36:26 My thoughts, I guess, originally, I was like,
36:27 why doesn't a University of Washington,
36:30 or why doesn't a school that's based
36:31 where Fortune 500 companies,
36:33 why aren't they winning national championships every year?
36:35 Why aren't they buying titles?
36:36 Do the Yankees, do the Lakers, you know?
36:39 So, I don't know, I think that's a challenge.
36:39 - It's curious if that may happen,
36:42 because I think there's a couple year gap
36:44 where people are learning how NIL works,
36:47 and what the loopholes are, or how to take advantage of it,
36:51 and I think you're gonna find some schools
36:53 that this is gonna be our roadmap, so to speak,
36:58 but I think the NCAA's gonna have to put some guidelines
37:02 on it at some point.
37:03 - You think they will?
37:04 - I don't think they have the power to do it, to be honest.
37:06 - I do agree, but they're gonna have to try,
37:09 otherwise you are gonna have, with no salary caps,
37:12 you can literally spend 50 times
37:14 what another school, maybe, in your league is spending.
37:16 - Well, they just tried it at Texas A&M football,
37:18 and I have no loyalty or anything to any football program,
37:22 but it just didn't work.
37:24 I mean, they were paying every kid was $50,000,
37:27 like every scholarship athlete with their collective
37:29 was 50,000, don't quote me on the number,
37:31 but it was something in that range.
37:33 All 80 whatever scholarships, coach out,
37:37 they were 500, you know what I'm saying?
37:38 So, I think the correction will come from
37:43 within the donor base, if that makes sense.
37:47 I think the real question for Richie is,
37:50 you grew up in the Pac-10 area, and then the WCC.
37:54 Great memories of the WCC.
37:57 WCC was more competitive.
38:01 I think it's better top-end now,
38:03 but it was more competitive when you guys were playing,
38:05 top to bottom, if that makes sense.
38:07 Teams tried to win, based on what I'm trying to say.
38:11 (laughing)
38:13 There wasn't 20 years of Gonzaga beating you.
38:17 What's your thoughts on going to the Big 12, potentially?
38:21 Do you care as an ex-SAG, as an alumnus?
38:23 - Absolutely, I think we do.
38:25 First of all, it'll really improve our home games, right?
38:27 You get those schools that come on campus, that's awesome.
38:30 - Yeah, that's 12 good home games instead of maybe one.
38:32 - Exactly, so there's other risks
38:34 with other sports though, correct?
38:36 So, can all the sports--
38:37 - Well, here's the caveat.
38:38 From what I understand, it would just be men's basketball.
38:40 - Really?
38:41 - So, take that, put that new information,
38:43 what's your opinion on, go to the Big 12
38:46 or stay in the WCC?
38:48 - Well, ultimately, it's gonna be
38:49 Coach Few's decision, correct?
38:51 So, I don't know--
38:52 - Part of it.
38:52 - Right, so I guess my first question is,
38:54 how committed is he staying with the program?
38:56 You know, is he talking about a number?
38:58 Is he gonna be around to make that transition successful?
39:02 You know, I know he's building the coaching staff,
39:04 but you know, Coach Few's been there for 30 something years
39:07 and he knows the pulse of the program better than anybody.
39:09 So, if he's willing to take that leap,
39:11 then we should support that.
39:14 But I don't know, it's one of those things
39:16 where just like, you know, Coach Fitzgerald,
39:18 you know, we played easy games
39:19 to win 24 games a year, right?
39:21 Coach Few is challenging his schedule
39:23 and he's still winning 24, 28, 30 wins a year.
39:26 Is he willing to, you know,
39:28 lose eight to 10 games a year, potentially?
39:29 - 'Cause you will in that league.
39:30 - You will, absolutely.
39:31 - And that's not a knock.
39:32 And people, when I say that, they're like, what?
39:33 And it's like, dude, last year, TCU was nine and nine.
39:36 - Right.
39:36 - And they were our hard out--
39:37 - Tough game in an NCAA tournament.
39:38 - In an NCAA tournament.
39:39 And that was their best year they've ever had
39:41 in the Big 12, nine and nine, right?
39:43 So.
39:44 - Yeah.
39:45 I mean, the only one you can really pencil in
39:47 is Kansas at the top every year.
39:48 And then it's like jockeying for position--
39:50 - If they go 14 and four,
39:51 their fan base kind of loses their mind.
39:53 - Yeah.
39:54 - You know what I'm saying?
39:54 So, sorry to cut you off.
39:56 But there is gonna be some,
39:57 when I say that, it doesn't mean we're,
39:59 I'm not saying we're gonna be the bottom.
40:00 I didn't say we're gonna be in the middle,
40:01 but there might be a year you go nine and nine.
40:04 - Yeah.
40:05 - And you still make the NCAA tournament.
40:06 - Yeah, that's a good point.
40:06 - And you're still good.
40:07 - The fan base,
40:08 I don't know if they would know how to handle that.
40:10 - That's exactly it right there.
40:11 Yep.
40:12 How's the fan base gonna treat it?
40:13 I don't know if that's important to Coach Pugh.
40:15 Like you said,
40:16 his ultimate goal is probably to win
40:17 a national championship at this point.
40:18 So if you get battle tested early,
40:20 and you know that's something,
40:21 you know, I went to the Yale game
40:22 and we ended up winning,
40:23 but that first five minutes,
40:24 I was like, okay, there's some weak spots here.
40:27 I think if you lose games early on or get tested,
40:29 it's nice to know your weaknesses.
40:31 You know, you can get better
40:32 throughout the course of the season,
40:33 and then you're ready for the tournament.
40:35 It's those teams that are just too talented
40:37 that just don't get challenged.
40:39 And we've seen it in years past at Gonzaga
40:40 where they run into a buzz saw
40:42 and they don't know what to do
40:43 because they've never been challenged in that way.
40:45 So I think if they go to the Big 12
40:47 and they get beat up,
40:48 you know, then you start conditioning your players
40:49 for different game situations
40:51 and you're ready for that a big time.
40:53 So there is that risk of losing more games,
40:55 but I think it does improve your talent level.
40:58 - Spoken like a coach.
40:59 Did you ever wanna get into coaching?
41:00 'Cause I know you and I had conversations on that in the past.
41:02 Like how serious were you to go down that route?
41:05 - You know, so I had my third agent
41:08 for the majority of my professional career,
41:10 and he represented coaches and general managers.
41:12 And so that was the path I wanted to go in.
41:15 And so that's the natural order, right?
41:17 When you're done, you wanna go coach
41:18 and be around the game.
41:20 For me, I did that briefly down in Reno, Nevada
41:23 in the D League, minor league Sacramento team.
41:26 And I just realized I was too fresh from playing
41:29 to give the energy back.
41:31 You know, because being an assistant coach,
41:33 you have to be selfless.
41:34 You have to just, you know,
41:35 be there for the players. - A lot of film you watch.
41:36 - A lot of film.
41:37 It's a different perspective. - Boring, boring.
41:38 - There you go.
41:40 There you go, the analytics side of it.
41:41 - The video breakdowns.
41:42 - So I wasn't ready at the time.
41:45 And then, you know, I got into real estate nine years ago
41:47 and really have enjoyed that challenge and the freedom.
41:50 But I think just, I'm not burnt out from basketball.
41:52 I still love it.
41:53 You know, talk about it, watch it.
41:54 But I just couldn't do it every day for a living.
41:57 No. - Yeah.
41:58 - Yeah.
41:59 - You have a different passion though now.
42:01 Speed racing on a bike.
42:04 - Oh, absolutely.
42:05 - Tell us about that.
42:06 - So we live in the greatest area for cycling,
42:09 mountain biking, road racing, all that in Spokane.
42:12 So I met a guy, what was it, like 10 years ago.
42:16 Long story short, my brother's father-in-law
42:18 used to have a bike shop in Battleground, Washington.
42:20 My brother got a bike when the shop went out of business.
42:23 I had no interest in riding it,
42:24 but I would see it at his house.
42:25 That's cool.
42:27 And then I picked up a commuter bike with saddlebags
42:30 and just not a fast bike.
42:31 It was something I got at REI.
42:33 And so I ran into a guy at a bike shop
42:36 in Browns Edition here in Spokane.
42:38 And he was a former racer, a racer, Lance Armstrong.
42:41 And just kind of hit it off in conversation.
42:43 He's like, "Hey, we're doing these races on Wednesday night."
42:46 And so I was like, "Oh, that's kind of cool.
42:47 "You guys actually race, let alone ride bikes?"
42:50 And so I went to that first race up in the campus
42:54 of Whitworth and it was kind of like a criterium,
42:56 they call it, so it's like a circuit race.
42:57 And I thought it was the coolest thing
42:58 because there were so many different techniques.
43:01 The fastest guy doesn't always win.
43:03 It's a sport where you just can't cheat.
43:06 It's just like, you gotta put the work in to get results.
43:08 So I was driven by that and then started joining them
43:11 on group rides and long story short,
43:13 it turned into me filling my winters
43:15 with base mile training and then springtime, summertime,
43:18 these events that you're just looking forward to
43:20 and then the camaraderie.
43:21 But yeah, in Spokane, we have great mountain bike trails.
43:24 We got good road riding out in the Palouse
43:26 and just meeting a different group of guys
43:28 and being competitive because I obviously
43:30 couldn't play basketball anymore was what I needed.
43:32 Because I like to tell people,
43:34 and you guys might be able to relate,
43:35 but a professional athlete, when you're forced to retire
43:38 or you choose to retire, it's like a death.
43:41 It's unfortunate because you wake up
43:42 not with that structure anymore.
43:44 And so we're competitive, we all are,
43:45 and we all wanna be active and see our returns.
43:49 And so that was important for me
43:50 and I don't race nearly as much
43:53 'cause I'm in my mid-40s, but it was the right thing
43:55 for me in my 30s, met a great group of guys.
43:58 And it's awesome because I'll talk Gonzaga basketball
44:00 with them and they don't know how to talk back.
44:02 (laughing)
44:03 It's like, yeah, we heard they're good.
44:04 We go to the games.
44:05 But yeah, I brought 'em along slowly
44:08 so they know about the NIL, they know about the Big 12,
44:11 and it's fun to have that dialogue.
44:13 And yeah, it's fun.
44:14 I gotta get you guys out there because--
44:16 - I can't even go up my stairs
44:17 without getting out of breath, Richie.
44:19 - So, yeah.
44:20 - There's no way I'm gonna go on some cycling race.
44:23 I love ya, but I can't even walk here to the door
44:27 without being tired, okay?
44:28 So you've always been a guy that's always worked out
44:31 more than any of us, the former players, right?
44:34 Richie's always the guy, like, boom, boom, boom.
44:37 So cycling's perfect for you.
44:39 I like to drink beers and--
44:41 - You're in good shape, though.
44:42 - That's good, thanks.
44:43 - Well, I do remember the first week or so
44:44 I moved back up to Spokane.
44:46 We had talked on the phone and you mentioned,
44:48 hey, let's go for a bike ride.
44:49 And right away I asked you,
44:52 'cause I didn't know you were into it yet.
44:53 I said, what do you mean?
44:54 He's like, oh, long distance bike ride.
44:56 And I said, how long?
44:57 I think you said 50 miles.
44:59 And I said, yeah, two and a half hours.
45:01 - Yep, yep, that's crazy.
45:02 - Bikes weigh 15 pounds, they're aerodynamic.
45:05 But Zach Gord, I think he's into cycling.
45:08 - Yeah. - Is that a great--
45:10 - I'm sure it's a great-- - Violet?
45:12 - It would look great, you know what I'm saying?
45:13 But no thanks.
45:14 - Yeah. - Pass.
45:15 - When's the last time you shot a ball, then?
45:17 'Cause I know I don't play very much at all.
45:18 - Oh my gosh, got a story for you.
45:19 So I don't shoot often, but I do work out
45:21 at a health club once in a while.
45:23 And so last year, I don't know what it was.
45:24 Might've been March Madness and I was feeling the energy.
45:27 Went in there, grabbed a ball,
45:29 and started shooting free throws.
45:30 And I missed one.
45:31 I was 49 out of 50, then I backed up to the three-point line
45:34 and I missed four out of 100.
45:35 - Oh wow. - So I was like,
45:36 wait a second. - Muscle, yeah.
45:37 - But then I was like-- - Oh my gosh.
45:38 - But then I was like, if I have to move
45:40 or I have to dribble, you know, then it's over with.
45:42 - Yeah. - So I remember talking
45:43 to Tommy Lloyd years ago.
45:44 I was like, you know, the shooting will always stay,
45:46 but the dribbling's the first to go.
45:48 - 100%. - The dribbling.
45:49 And then, you know, we have to move laterally,
45:51 it's over with, so.
45:52 - I remember, I hadn't played in about two years
45:54 and I went to play with John's group a couple years ago.
45:57 And same thing, like I'm warming up,
45:59 I'm knocking down shots. - Yeah.
46:01 - I had two trips down the court
46:03 and then I had to try to change directions.
46:04 - Oh. - (imitates shooting)
46:06 But it was a slow motion fall,
46:08 like I just couldn't get myself back.
46:10 And I think my son was sitting over on the baseline,
46:12 like snickering at me.
46:13 I'm like, I might have to get in shape.
46:16 - Can you beat your son one-on-one?
46:18 - We haven't played in a while.
46:19 - Really? - He's good.
46:20 - Yeah. - I mean, he'll be a junior
46:21 this year, he's got a chance to play.
46:23 - Oh, really?
46:24 - His high school team's really good.
46:27 It's, as with all kids at that age,
46:29 you gotta figure out how hard do you wanna attack it.
46:33 You always did, you always did.
46:35 That's the big question for so many kids.
46:38 - Yeah, I know you always had it.
46:39 Like you mentioned earlier,
46:40 it was like I've known you for a long time
46:41 and I know a lot of people know Dan puts in the work,
46:44 but he knew what he wanted to do in the fifth and sixth grade
46:47 and I think that's very rare
46:48 because your dad knew what you wanted to do,
46:50 but you wanted it more than him.
46:51 And yeah, looking back, it was awesome.
46:53 And you're still around the game today,
46:55 so it's always been in your heart.
46:56 - Yeah. - Which is awesome.
46:57 - Yeah. - Yeah.
46:58 - No, it's been a good time catching up.
47:02 I know a lot of former Zags live in Spokane.
47:05 Adam and I are trying to reconnect
47:06 with a bunch of guys like yourself
47:08 and kind of just ask a bunch of different questions,
47:10 catch up on life, catch up on Gonzaga basketball.
47:13 Is there anything else that you think listeners,
47:17 viewers would be interested in going on with--
47:19 - This show is great and I hope you continue
47:21 to reach out to former Zags
47:22 'cause everybody's got a great story to connect the dots.
47:26 And I know the fan base is gonna go through a lot
47:28 with the NIL and the Big 12 change.
47:30 But just study the history,
47:32 know the guys that built this program
47:34 back in the '80s and earlier.
47:36 Yeah, we have an event coming up,
47:39 which is a great opportunity.
47:40 The game January 4th is the Community Cancer Fund.
47:43 And so that's gonna be separate from the alumni event
47:46 that's gonna take place Friday in the evening.
47:48 And I think it's gonna be on Gonzaga's campus
47:50 and it's gonna be something with the spokesmen
47:52 they're gonna plug and tickets are available.
47:54 And it'll be kind of a Q&A panel
47:56 and you get to meet a lot of Zag legends,
47:58 from the '80s, '90s and get to know
48:01 the history of the game a little bit.
48:02 So I think that's a good stepping stone
48:04 to kind of fill in the story of Gonzaga.
48:07 And so it's been 25 years since our run.
48:09 And I like to tell people,
48:11 we did it on $16 a day.
48:13 We had one pair of shoes for the season.
48:15 We had sweatpants that were recycled every year.
48:17 - Go to the cog for--
48:18 - Go to the cog, yeah.
48:19 And flew Southwest Airlines.
48:22 - I think mine were five years old, my red shoes.
48:24 - Yeah, no, it's the history you had to earn that.
48:26 But if you look at the white,
48:27 it's kind of bleeding a little red.
48:29 We wore those on national television.
48:30 So, and I think our assistant coach,
48:32 Billy Grew, did the laundry.
48:33 (laughing)
48:34 But yeah, so that's it, man.
48:37 Go Zags.
48:38 - Awesome.
48:39 Well, there you have it.
48:40 Talking Zags.
48:40 Special guest from that '99 Elite Eight team,
48:44 Richie Fromm.
48:45 (upbeat music)
48:48 (upbeat music)