Abdulnasser Bin Kalban, Chief Executive Officer, Emirates Global Aluminium Mikhail Gerchuk, Chief Executive Officer, e& International Christian Ulbrich, Chief Executive Officer, JLL Nigel Vaz, Chief Executive Officer, Publicis Sapient In conversation with: Geoff Colvin, Senior Editor-at-Large, FORTUNE
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TechTranscript
00:00 - Thank you, Alan.
00:01 We all have here four executives
00:05 from industries that seem to be very, very different.
00:09 And yet they're all dealing with the same big issues
00:12 that Alan described.
00:14 AI technology generally, climate,
00:17 the after effects of the pandemic,
00:19 what's going on with new trading patterns.
00:22 These things are large and fast changing
00:27 and we all have to deal with them.
00:29 So we're gonna talk about all of these,
00:31 looking for commonalities in how these executives
00:34 are dealing with these issues.
00:36 And we may find that they are not as different
00:39 as they first appeared to be.
00:42 I should mention also that we welcome input from you.
00:47 If you want to ask a question,
00:50 simply raise your hand and someone with a microphone
00:53 will come to you very quickly
00:55 so that you can ask your question.
00:57 And please don't wait for me to invite questions.
01:01 The way we will do this whole event
01:05 is by inviting questions from the very beginning.
01:09 So please don't be bashful
01:11 if there's anything you want to ask about.
01:13 We could start many different ways,
01:17 but Abdul Nasir, I'd like to start with you.
01:20 I mentioned climate and sustainability
01:23 as one of the issues.
01:24 People will naturally think, well, okay,
01:28 the aluminum business involves mining the alumina,
01:33 moving lots of big things around in ships,
01:38 making aluminum uses a great deal of electricity.
01:42 So there are a lot of obvious issues there.
01:44 How have you thought about these?
01:47 - First of all, thank you for the invitation.
01:52 It's giving me great pleasure to be here with you.
01:55 Such honors, panelists and the great crowd here.
02:00 I would like to start by saying
02:03 aluminum is playing a crucial role
02:06 for the development of more sustainable societies.
02:10 Aluminum is basically into everything we have these days,
02:15 from mobile phones to EV cars to mass transit systems,
02:22 including aerospace.
02:24 So I think we'd like to continue doing all these things
02:29 for our production of aluminum.
02:33 Aluminum has also special characteristics
02:36 that is basically is light yet strong,
02:39 and it is thermally and electrically conductive,
02:43 and is formable, and basically is difficult to be replaced.
02:49 And it's very important to mention that
02:52 the aluminum can be infinitely recyclable.
02:56 For example, of your EV cars,
02:59 it's getting closer to end of life.
03:02 We can take it, recycle it over and over
03:06 without losing the mechanical characteristics.
03:09 And aluminum considered today
03:12 to be the most recyclable metals in the world
03:15 comparing to others.
03:17 And if you compare our aluminum production,
03:21 carbon footprint over the next, let's say, 100 years,
03:27 and because of the continuous recyclable.
03:31 I mean, to recycle the aluminum,
03:33 you need to only to consume 5% to 10% of the energy.
03:38 And this is really great.
03:40 And that's why we made a decision,
03:43 and we announced that we're going to construct
03:46 170,000 ton of recyclable secondary aluminum smelter
03:51 in the UAE.
03:52 And we are looking also for more investment globally
03:56 because this will give us an easy access
03:59 to, let's say, green aluminum.
04:02 And this is what our customer is demanding.
04:06 And also we need to be proud that EGA,
04:09 we're the first company in the world
04:11 to produce aluminum based on solar power.
04:14 So if you take the aluminum produced by solar,
04:16 you blend it with recyclable metal,
04:19 it will give you the most greenest aluminum in the world.
04:23 And this is what we want to do going forward in the future.
04:27 Back to your question,
04:28 what we are doing about the sustainability
04:31 of our current aluminum production.
04:35 For me, sustainability is much broader aspect
04:39 comparing to decarbonization.
04:42 Even though we believe decarbonization
04:45 is the main challenge for our climate change.
04:48 Luckily, we now have a plan,
04:54 which has already been approved by our management
04:57 and shareholders, that we are committed for net zero by 2050
05:02 in line with our UAE net zero by 2050 strategic initiatives.
05:08 And we are going to do much more green investment
05:12 going in the future.
05:15 Even our growth plan will be relying heavily
05:18 in our state of the art EGA technology,
05:22 and we will use only green power to grow.
05:25 The industry has its own challenges,
05:29 like the other industry.
05:33 So all these challenges already been shared
05:35 with industry expert,
05:37 and we are working on a plan how to basically work together
05:42 and deliver the goods.
05:43 It's not easy journey to basically take for the next 25,
05:48 let's say for the next 25 years,
05:52 but we are committed to do it.
05:54 - Yeah, it's interesting because the recyclability
05:57 of the aluminum actually makes it clear
06:03 that you could be not a detriment to the environment,
06:08 quite the opposite.
06:10 You could actually be helping it.
06:11 - Yes. - Good point.
06:12 Christian, people may or may not recognize
06:16 that real estate is a huge element
06:20 in climate and sustainability.
06:22 There's various research showing that large percentages
06:26 of all the greenhouse gases of CO2,
06:29 especially come from buildings.
06:32 This is an issue that your industry
06:36 and your company must now deal with.
06:37 How are you dealing with it?
06:39 - Sure, yeah.
06:41 The built environment is roughly causing 40%
06:45 of the CO2 emissions in the world,
06:47 of the carbon emissions in the world.
06:49 That obviously includes the building up of the building
06:53 and then the operating of the building.
06:55 So it's very important if building materials
06:58 are going green beforehand
07:00 because that will reduce it very much.
07:02 As JLL, we have been signing up
07:05 to our own net zero pass by 2040.
07:10 And now the biggest challenge for us
07:13 is not so much the carbon emissions
07:16 we have as a company ourselves,
07:19 but what is in scope three.
07:20 So the emissions of our clients.
07:23 And so we are helping our clients to go green
07:27 in their built environment.
07:29 That is the fastest kind of growing revenue stream
07:34 within JLL is helping our clients
07:37 to decarbonize their buildings.
07:39 So that's one piece what we are doing.
07:42 And I can only encourage everybody to only build
07:47 and lease buildings which are as green as possible
07:52 because it's fairly easy and they're much tougher parts
07:56 to take them green than buildings.
07:59 And so it's an important part.
08:01 - It's interesting that this has actually become
08:04 a business opportunity for JLL.
08:07 People may not realize it,
08:09 but you are in addition to the traditional services
08:12 in real estate,
08:14 you are now a digital technology company, right?
08:17 And some of it has to do with keeping the buildings greener.
08:22 - Sure, at the end of the day,
08:23 when you think about buildings,
08:25 it's a massive source of data.
08:29 And you have to be able to analyze that data,
08:32 which is coming out of those buildings.
08:34 And in order to know whether you are on the right path
08:38 to go green,
08:39 you also have to analyze that data of buildings.
08:42 And that has been so far still quite challenging
08:46 because you have so many different materials
08:49 going into a building.
08:51 And therefore to capture all the carbon,
08:54 which is already embedded in the building,
08:56 and then the operations of that building,
08:58 all of that has to be measured and then analyzed.
09:02 And then you have to turn that into a strategy,
09:04 how you take that green.
09:06 And so you have to be a technology company
09:09 if you wanna service your clients on that level.
09:13 And therefore this has been a very big thing for us
09:16 over a decade now.
09:18 - Yeah, Nigel, your business has to do with the technology
09:23 and all about the technology.
09:25 You help all kinds of companies, different companies,
09:28 go on a digital transformation,
09:30 a technological transformation.
09:32 Are your clients asking you for help?
09:37 Well, about climate, but about what other things?
09:41 - Yeah, I think if you really think
09:42 about any sustainability journey
09:44 in the context of any of our clients,
09:45 whether it's like Christian mentioned,
09:47 in the context of the work they're doing at JLL,
09:49 or in the context of mining,
09:50 I think in every industry,
09:52 technology has got to be one of the sources
09:54 in which you actually drive opportunities
09:58 to become more sustainable.
09:59 And I think that starts with choices
10:01 at the organizational level,
10:03 but at choices through the organization.
10:05 So one of the things we did
10:06 is we built a platform called eMissions,
10:08 which essentially in real time,
10:10 helps organizations start to make determinations
10:13 about the choices that they're making
10:15 in the context of actual carbon implications.
10:19 And this at a top level seems kind of a bit like
10:24 a very simple idea,
10:25 but the reality is thousands of decisions
10:28 made in an organization almost in a real time basis
10:31 influence the ultimate impact.
10:32 So if you're somebody that's mining,
10:35 where you actually determine
10:37 how you move from point A to point B,
10:40 or where you determine site choices,
10:42 or if you think about something as simple
10:45 as an organizational implication,
10:47 like how people use and consume paper printing,
10:50 and how much of these choices you can automate,
10:53 as opposed to having to make people make decisions.
10:56 So now one of the biggest areas of sustainability
11:00 in the context of digital transformations
11:02 is thinking about how you can actually set up parameters
11:05 in the context of an organization.
11:06 So you just enable default choices
11:09 that people are making almost on a consistent basis
11:12 that are more sustainable than not.
11:14 And ultimately then look at the aggregate of these choices
11:17 in the context of goals that you've set.
11:19 So that's a huge part of it.
11:21 - It's really interesting here also,
11:22 because what you have found
11:25 are a number of significant opportunities
11:28 to help with this problem.
11:30 - I don't think there is a path to being more sustainable
11:32 without actually leveraging technology
11:35 to transform the way you do things.
11:37 I mean, there's just no path,
11:38 whether it's electrification,
11:40 or manufacturing in industries like automotive,
11:43 or it's thinking about the use of real estate
11:46 in industries like financial services or retail.
11:49 Unless you're actually in real time,
11:51 like Christian was talking about, analyzing the data,
11:53 understanding what choices people are making,
11:56 and starting to influence them in a very consistent manner,
11:59 you effectively, I feel,
12:01 will struggle to really move the needle on sustainability.
12:04 - Yeah.
12:05 It's funny, we started with climate and sustainability,
12:08 now we're talking about technology,
12:10 inevitably, I think.
12:13 Mikhail, technology is the basis of your whole business
12:19 at E&.
12:21 Can you describe to us
12:24 the story, the journey,
12:30 from telecom to what you are now,
12:34 and how it's a good thing for the larger world?
12:38 - Thank you for your question.
12:42 Telecommunications, they're a backbone
12:45 of modern business and modern life.
12:47 It's really difficult to imagine not only business,
12:51 but even current life, without connectivity.
12:53 And connectivity is the main service
12:55 that telecommunications companies like E&,
12:58 formerly known as Etisalat, provide.
13:01 But demand for connectivity increases exponentially.
13:07 We still remember how, a few decades ago,
13:10 speed was a few megabit per second.
13:14 In the very near future, with 6G technology,
13:17 speed is forecasted to achieve one terabit per second,
13:20 which is one million of megabit.
13:22 So just mind-boggling speed,
13:24 but it is demanded by modern applications.
13:28 Second level, so first level is connectivity,
13:30 second level is data.
13:33 Because connectivity and our services generate a lot of data
13:36 about behavior of our customers,
13:40 business customers as well as consumers.
13:43 We know a lot of information about customer behavior,
13:47 probably more than internet companies do.
13:49 We know where our customers are, how they spend money,
13:53 what services they use, how they use internet, and so on.
13:56 And this data provides absolutely necessary
14:01 and fundamental background for development
14:04 of artificial intelligence.
14:07 Now, we hear a lot about artificial intelligence.
14:10 We visited Mohammed Bin Zayed University
14:14 for artificial intelligence this morning.
14:16 Artificial intelligence is the next driver
14:19 of business progress.
14:20 It's probably next technology revolution.
14:25 And in order to enable development
14:27 of artificial intelligence, you need connectivity
14:30 and you need a lot of data
14:31 that telecommunications companies provide.
14:35 And then probably the last frontier
14:38 would be internet of things.
14:40 Because when you have connectivity
14:41 with high speed and low latency,
14:44 and then you have a lot of data
14:46 that is used for artificial intelligence-based decisions,
14:51 very timely, very fast decisions about operating things
14:55 and/or giving offers to customers,
14:58 then you can enable internet of things.
15:01 We know that in the future,
15:04 all machines will be talking to each other
15:07 and they will make decisions themselves enabled by AI.
15:12 And the role of telecommunications companies
15:16 in this transformation is fundamental.
15:19 What is important for us in our journey from telco to tech,
15:24 and this is thanks to the vision
15:26 of our chairman and the board,
15:28 we now provide not only basic connectivity,
15:32 but we focus more on development of our capabilities
15:34 in AI and in internet of things
15:37 to really bring the next generation of business
15:40 to the regions where they're at.
15:42 - Everything is tying together here.
15:47 You started out by talking about technology
15:50 and how you are using it in your business
15:53 in ways that many people probably know nothing about,
15:55 but now they're learning.
15:57 One of the other big issues,
16:00 one of the big changes that Alan described
16:04 was the world of trade,
16:10 how trading patterns are being reordered,
16:13 big decisions being made.
16:16 Now, I have to ask you about in the aluminum business,
16:21 you're the largest producer of premium aluminum.
16:26 China is the world's greatest consumer of aluminum.
16:32 It's also the greatest producer overall,
16:35 not just the premium.
16:37 Does that make them a kind of customer
16:40 and competitor for you?
16:41 - Well, for us,
16:46 what we have enjoyed the most in the last 25 years
16:51 is basically the technology we develop
16:54 to produce aluminum.
16:56 And what differentiate EGA today
16:58 is basically this technology,
17:00 which we've been continuously develop year after year.
17:04 And compared to the original technology,
17:07 which we installed in 1980,
17:09 we managed to reduce our CO2 emission by almost 38%.
17:14 And we will continue to basically develop the technology
17:18 to be more efficient, to reduce the CO2 footprint.
17:23 And we believe we will continue in this path
17:27 because we are us,
17:29 we agreed to embed sustainability in everything we do.
17:33 And the market is telling you,
17:35 EGA, as we just rightly mentioned,
17:37 we are the biggest premium aluminum producer in the world.
17:41 We have more than 350 customer globally.
17:46 We operate in 50 countries.
17:48 And we believe with a new vision of EGA
17:52 to grow in more sustainable way,
17:54 whether in the technology,
17:56 whether in the decarbonization of the power station,
17:59 and to meet our demands from our customer
18:03 to produce recycled aluminum mixed with the green power.
18:08 I think we will have the market edge over others,
18:11 whether Chinese or different.
18:14 But I would like to mention about China.
18:17 China is also the biggest supplier
18:20 of raw materials we purchase.
18:22 And during COVID-19,
18:26 we had, I'll say, logistic crisis,
18:31 and our suppliers from China,
18:34 I'll say, failed to basically supply us with goods.
18:39 And that's happened in COVID-19.
18:43 Early 2022, also they had the Winter Olympics over there.
18:47 And the government asked the supplier to also shut down.
18:51 And to be honest, the trademark of EGA
18:56 is basically customer satisfaction.
18:59 And without the raw materials from China,
19:01 we struggled to supply.
19:04 And we made, let's say, a strategic decision
19:09 to more or less localize most of the raw materials
19:14 here in the UAE.
19:15 We started with, let's say, small components.
19:19 And now we are looking at raw materials.
19:22 So we built our first aluminum refinery in Tawila.
19:26 And it cost us more than $3 billion.
19:31 And I'm happy to report that we already reached
19:35 the nameplate within two years.
19:37 And at the moment, we are running at 20%
19:40 higher than the nameplate.
19:42 I'm sure this is very good news to our colleagues here
19:46 in Department of Economy,
19:48 that more industry will be here localized in the UAE.
19:53 It's great news, basically,
19:55 to have a resilient supply chain for EGA,
19:59 secured materials in our backyard.
20:01 From carbon emission, China still burn coal
20:06 in their power station,
20:08 while here we have nuclear, solar.
20:10 So from a CO2 point of view,
20:13 scope one, scope three will be much lower.
20:16 And of course, we'll be creating jobs.
20:19 Now, even we get orders,
20:21 and let's say, a question from our European customers,
20:25 they want even our raw materials,
20:27 because they would like to buy from the UAE,
20:30 rather than China.
20:31 And for me, it works both ways.
20:34 So, and for us to also to grow in more responsible way,
20:38 especially in the space of sustainability,
20:41 there are more than 100 criteria we need to meet.
20:44 And to satisfy most of these criteria,
20:48 I think investing in the UAE
20:50 is the strategic initiative we have taken.
20:55 And we will support also the government,
20:58 let's say, operation 300 billion,
21:02 make it in the Emirate initiative.
21:04 This is a great thing for us and our supplier,
21:07 and which will help us to grow in more sustainable way.
21:11 - Yeah.
21:13 I have to ask you, Christian, about China,
21:15 with regard to real estate.
21:18 Whether someone is interested
21:20 or an expert in real estate or not, doesn't really matter.
21:23 We know that it is a huge element of the Chinese economy.
21:26 And we've been reading a lot of articles
21:28 in the newspapers lately.
21:30 What's your assessment of the real estate situation
21:36 in China now?
21:40 What do you expect it to become?
21:41 - Well, it is indeed a very large part of the GDP,
21:45 and it is a very relevant economy in the world,
21:49 as we all know.
21:49 So we all have to be concerned about that market.
21:53 And I think it is, especially on the residential sector,
21:57 a pain for the Chinese people.
22:00 It's a drag on the Chinese economy,
22:02 and therefore it's also a concern for the Chinese government.
22:05 And therefore I'm pretty convinced
22:07 that the Chinese government will do whatever they can
22:11 to kind of get control of that situation,
22:14 ease kind of the environment
22:16 for those real estate developers
22:19 to kind of stabilize that situation,
22:23 to get those unfinished buildings finished,
22:26 so that the people who kind of made their down payments
22:30 with all their savings,
22:31 that they actually can get into those apartments.
22:34 I think going to your trade point,
22:37 what is very important,
22:40 and it's kind of related to the situation
22:42 we have at the moment with China,
22:44 is that up to the GFC in 2008,
22:48 we were all talking about globalization,
22:50 and the trade patterns were easing up,
22:52 and that was driving a lot of wealth
22:55 and a lot of GDP growth in the world.
22:57 And since then, we are going backwards on that.
23:01 And people talk a lot about
23:04 different tax situations in the world.
23:07 What is almost more important is the tax,
23:10 which is coming from regulation and bureaucracy.
23:13 And we have an enormous increase of regulation
23:17 and bureaucracy in the world,
23:19 which makes it more and more difficult
23:22 to globalize your business.
23:24 And ESG, as much as we are supporting it,
23:27 is a big driver of it,
23:29 because we have now ESG rules,
23:31 not only on a national level,
23:33 we have ESG rules on a local level, on a city level.
23:37 And therefore, I hope that we will all encourage
23:42 our governments to get back on that trade is good
23:45 for the wealth of the world,
23:47 and it drives poor people into the middle classes.
23:51 - Yeah.
23:52 Nigel, I wanna ask you a broad question,
23:56 but I think it may be revealing.
23:57 You have clients in all kinds of industries.
24:03 What are they asking you about most now?
24:08 Specifically, I think about almost exactly a year ago,
24:12 November 30th, 2022,
24:14 when OpenAI made available to the general public,
24:18 ChatGPT, and it changed the world.
24:21 What have your clients been doing in response?
24:25 - So I think, firstly, most of our clients
24:29 have been on this journey of transforming themselves
24:32 digitally for a while.
24:33 And I think what you're starting to see with AI
24:35 is the consciousness essentially raised
24:38 across the organizations with people recognizing
24:41 that this is going to be a meaningful shift.
24:44 The last time I saw a moment like this
24:46 was in the mid '90s when the dot-com bubble
24:51 was starting to emerge,
24:52 where people were like,
24:53 "This internet thing is gonna be a big thing."
24:55 And you're on Sapient,
24:56 we're in the business of launching
24:57 some of the world's first banks online,
24:59 some of the first retailers,
25:00 and in living through that at the time,
25:02 that optimism about how transformational this could be,
25:07 I feel like we're in a similar moment right now.
25:09 And I feel like the discourse more broadly in the world
25:12 since ChatGPT launched,
25:14 and even with the announcements back and forth
25:18 about the changes in the organization and AI more broadly
25:21 as late as last week,
25:23 the consciousness of people to fundamentally recognize
25:27 that this is gonna be transformational for our business
25:29 has been huge.
25:30 So to give you some examples of just kind of
25:32 the kinds of things people have been doing
25:34 and how they're thinking about it now.
25:35 So we have a client,
25:36 one of the largest retailers in the world,
25:38 that we developed an AI platform for them
25:41 in the context of sustainability
25:43 to optimize van routes.
25:45 So it analyzed everything people were buying,
25:48 and you'd look at what people were buying
25:50 and then determine whether they'd have a refrigerated truck
25:53 or a non-refrigerated truck,
25:54 and then you would stop them driving all over themselves.
25:57 'Cause what used to happen before
25:59 is as orders online started to grow,
26:01 the complexity of making those choices
26:03 became too difficult, right?
26:05 Now, a lot of those are moving much faster
26:09 in the context of not decisions
26:11 that people are even involved in,
26:12 but are automatically prioritized
26:15 on the basis of orders ship.
26:18 In the UAE, as an example,
26:21 one of our clients is Meral,
26:23 which is a big entertainment destination.
26:25 And thinking about the journey
26:28 from when a customer starts to plan a holiday
26:31 through the experience in any one of the theme parks
26:35 that they're participating in
26:37 all the way to the time that they go,
26:39 starting to anticipate every interaction.
26:42 Today, that's actually, historically,
26:44 customer service there would be done by people.
26:47 Now, a lot of those queries can be handled by AI
26:51 and by machines answering questions,
26:53 the answers to which are pretty straightforward
26:56 and require very little error correction,
26:59 like how do I get from point A to point B?
27:01 Or how do I actually change X, Y, or Z in my room?
27:05 And these are all things that are obvious,
27:08 but were not obvious a year ago
27:11 in terms of the speed at which
27:13 and the magnitude at which they would transform industries
27:16 and our experience as people.
27:18 - Yep.
27:19 Mikhail, let's take a big picture view.
27:23 We've talked about technology a lot, as well as other things.
27:28 Is AI and the technologies associated in general
27:32 fundamentally going to be for the social good?
27:39 - I firmly believe that AI will be for the social good.
27:43 Already now, we see how AI changing and improving lives
27:47 in many aspects.
27:50 Let's take digital health, for example.
27:51 We just, again, in the University for AI,
27:53 we saw examples how AI helps to improve health outcomes.
27:58 Smart mobility allows to decrease
28:02 number of accidents by 60%.
28:05 Energy efficiency.
28:07 We actively use AI for making our networks more efficient.
28:10 And on the upcoming COP28 event,
28:14 we will commit our net zero pledge in 2030 for UAE
28:19 and a little bit later
28:21 for the rest of international operations.
28:23 My favorite example, how UI helps to deliver social good,
28:29 is a case that we developed together
28:33 with fire service in the UAE.
28:35 In the UAE, every villa has a fire alarm
28:39 that is connected to the fire service control room.
28:42 And when fire alarm goes off,
28:44 fire engine goes to put down the fire.
28:47 Unfortunately, more than 70% of alarms are false alarms.
28:51 It can be because alarm run out of battery,
28:55 because there is a dust storm,
28:57 because someone is smoking, and so on.
28:59 Our data experts developed a model
29:02 that allows to predict whether the alarm is real fire
29:07 or it's a false alarm,
29:09 and effectively gives each alarm a score,
29:12 a rating, probability that it's real alarm.
29:15 This, of course, helps to improve efficiency
29:19 of fire service operations,
29:21 but even more importantly,
29:23 it helps for fire engines to come to real fires faster,
29:28 effectively saving lives.
29:30 - It's a great story.
29:32 And it just strikes me.
29:35 Here, we've been talking about these very large issues,
29:38 fast changing issues,
29:40 that everybody in this room is worried about.
29:42 And yet the whole tone of this conversation
29:45 has been an optimistic one.
29:47 It really is something that is reassuring to hear
29:51 from all of these different industries.
29:54 And it's a great note on which to end.
29:57 So let us please say to Abdel Nasser, Mikhail,
30:01 Christian, Nigel, thank you so very, very much.
30:05 - Thank you.
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