On my recent visit to Nothing's head office in London, I met up with Carl Pei to learn more about his vision and how he runs the company.
Our conversation spanned many topics. Growing up with an ambition to be a Kung-Fu teacher then a police officer and finally the entrepreneur he is
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00 I think the first thing I wanted to do was being a Kung Fu teacher.
00:03 Karl, thank you for hosting us.
00:13 It's been a great pleasure coming here and seeing you.
00:15 Thanks for being here.
00:16 Thank you.
00:17 It's great to see a garage coming up to becoming hopefully a unicorn.
00:21 You have many fans across the globe and specifically with the tech enthusiasts,
00:26 if I may say. Who is Karl P? American, Chinese, Swedish, a third culture kid?
00:32 I like to see myself as just a regular guy because of certain timing and
00:39 circumstance, I got put into a position where I can do something interesting.
00:43 And that's what I'm trying to do.
00:44 Your background as a dropout, in a way, an entrepreneur, is this something you had planned for?
00:54 No, I think the first thing I wanted to do was being a Kung Fu teacher because I watched a lot of Bruce Lee movies when I was growing up and he looked really cool.
01:03 So I wanted to do that.
01:05 At some point, I wanted to be a policeman.
01:08 But I think I never thought of being a business person.
01:14 I just really like tech products and like just one thing led to another, literally.
01:20 And first, I was a fan of tech products.
01:24 Then I started making some online communities and websites about tech products.
01:27 And then because of that, I got recruited into a tech company and then one thing led to another.
01:32 And here we are.
01:33 Congratulations on your year three, I guess now.
01:36 You started during COVID.
01:39 I mean, no one knew this was going to happen.
01:41 Did you ever had to question your decision making when everyone's priority was to beat COVID?
01:50 You had come in with a brilliant idea that you're going to, in a way, disrupt your own market.
01:56 Not because of the disease itself, but during COVID, it also coincided with the supply chain and logistics shortage because all the ports were closed and there were not enough chips on the market.
02:10 There was a point in time as we were developing the phone one that we almost couldn't procure one component, one IC, in order to make the full widget.
02:18 Like it's more than 400 components in the product.
02:21 But there was just one component that we just couldn't source because the bigger brands had bought like six years of supply.
02:26 So that we almost considered to cancel making smartphones or delaying it.
02:32 Wow.
02:33 Wow.
02:34 It's that one missing piece of the puzzle in a way that would have ruined.
02:39 Yeah, this business is very complex.
02:41 There's so many little details that can all go wrong.
02:44 And if one thing goes wrong, everything goes wrong.
02:45 So being a multicultural person, what drives success in your mind?
02:51 Is it, and I dare to say this, fear of failure or the passion to succeed?
02:58 I think life is just a journey for everybody.
03:02 So I'm just trying to figure out how to make the journey the most exciting one.
03:06 I think it's more that than anything else.
03:09 And I think recently, because I was so inspired by the tech industry when I was growing up, like I chose a career in tech because the work that Apple did when I was young.
03:19 I just feel like that inspiration is a bit missing today.
03:24 Like Apple got huge.
03:25 They're now a big corporate.
03:27 But who's really inspiring the future?
03:30 So hopefully we can play a role in that.
03:32 That's how I think about it.
03:34 And no doubt you're an inspiration to many of the young entrepreneurs.
03:39 What would you tell them?
03:42 I mean, in a way you followed your passion, you followed that you love technology and you wanted to do this.
03:47 Is there a message you would convey to young entrepreneurs?
03:51 I come from a startup and I know how difficult it is.
03:54 Just keep doing things.
03:57 Just don't always just think about it.
04:00 Just do it.
04:01 You've seen some of the work that I've done in the past, but there's probably a hundred projects that you don't know about that I just tried and failed secretly.
04:09 How big is nothing today after three years?
04:15 And where do you think it will be five years?
04:17 So I don't think the amount of employees you have is a source of pride.
04:21 I think the amount of customers you have who love your products, that should be like the number one barometer.
04:30 We're about 550 people.
04:32 So it's a big, big team for being a startup, but it's a very small team for being in this industry because there's a lot of specialization needed to deliver these kind of products.
04:42 But I don't think team size should be a source of pride because it's easy.
04:46 You just spend money and you have a team.
04:47 Definitely.
04:49 The hard part is making products that consumers really love and getting the team to really work well together.
04:55 One of my questions was, seeing the team that you have here, how do you hire talent?
05:01 Because I saw that they're not in hundreds, a small shop like here, the studio, yet the ideation, the concepts, it's always working for you.
05:13 What do you look for when you hire talent?
05:16 I think my advice here would be quite generic.
05:19 You've got to look both at the skill and capability as well as the culture fit.
05:24 Like, why are they in it?
05:26 Do they agree with what we're trying to do?
05:29 Do they want to be a part of this?
05:31 Or are they just here for a paycheck or here to tell their friends that it's cool?
05:35 We need both.
05:36 How satisfied are you today with where nothing is?
05:40 Nothing one came out.
05:41 I upgraded from nothing one to nothing two.
05:43 Is that a sign of success?
05:46 I think I'll need to learn to be more grateful and celebrate success more.
05:50 But we're very critical of ourselves internally.
05:56 So internally, how are things going?
05:59 I'll probably say six out of ten.
06:01 But if you take a step back and look at what we've accomplished as a team in three years, I think it's pretty unique in the world.
06:08 So maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
06:11 I think this is a founder's mentality.
06:13 They're never satisfied with where they are.
06:15 They know that they can push the limits and can deliver more.
06:19 I think we're in a very interesting spot.
06:22 Right.
06:22 So we are able to deliver very complicated products as a company.
06:27 And there's probably less than 10 companies in the world that can deliver similar products.
06:32 So that puts us in a very interesting spot, because as we get stronger in our capabilities, we're also able to jump to the next thing more quickly than other people.
06:44 We're going to be one of the only people that have a stab at the next thing, I think.
06:49 And today, I think I witnessed it.
06:51 One of your senior designers, you know, it just brought into focus the importance of user experience and design.
06:59 I really felt that the approach was focused on the design and fit in the technology versus, you know, let's go after the technology and let's find a decent design.
07:10 And this is what makes this product stand out.
07:12 I think you need the marriage of both.
07:14 Right.
07:15 I think that's why Apple has been so successful in the past.
07:18 Nothing is known for their bold moves from the branding to the design.
07:22 Can we expect foldables and VR in the near future?
07:28 I know you may have a roadmap for this, but today as a consumer, foldables have replaced in 80 percent of the times the use of a laptop.
07:39 So, you know, the limitation of a screen needs to be more flexible.
07:45 Apps need to be serving, you know, square sized screens and so forth.
07:50 Is this something that you guys, you know, when you go to bed and think about?
07:55 Not too much.
07:57 If you look at the, I know the foldables are improving very quickly.
08:02 But if you look at the overall market, a billion smartphones are sold every year.
08:06 I don't know the data for foldables.
08:08 Maybe it's 10 million now.
08:09 So it's still a very, very small part of the market.
08:12 For me, there's two parts of the user experience that I think we need to get.
08:17 We'll need to get better first.
08:18 One is the hardware on the crease.
08:21 The crease has gotten smaller, but there's still a little bit.
08:24 I just I have I think I have OCD.
08:26 I can't I can't tolerate that.
08:28 And secondly, on the software.
08:31 So I think the software still needs a little bit more time to mature.
08:37 So the operating system, the app developers, they need to adapt their apps
08:41 to a different form factor and not just stretch the apps.
08:45 You know, when the iPad came out, the app developers made iPad versions of the apps.
08:49 Absolutely. Yes.
08:50 But I think the the foldable ecosystem needs a little bit more time
08:54 to mature on the software side.
08:55 But wasn't that a reason for a first mover advantage?
08:59 You know that you already, you know, put your product out in the market.
09:04 I'm married to the late mover advantage.
09:07 OK, my favorite advantage.
09:09 OK, so to let other people try
09:12 and then see what works and then try and do it better.
09:17 You know, one thing that we saw about the glyph concept itself earlier today
09:21 and it just hit me is that, you know, AI and glyphs,
09:26 you know, you have so much or you're collecting so much data today.
09:30 So what can you do?
09:33 It's almost like a light bulb lit off, as you mentioned.
09:35 You know, you have the sounds, you have the all the indicators.
09:39 You have the data.
09:40 AI is all about how do you parse this data?
09:43 Yeah. And how can you basically create even a better consumer story?
09:49 I think about AI every day.
09:50 Yeah. But I never thought about it in this context.
09:53 I need to to think deeply about this.
09:56 Nice that you mentioned it. Awesome.
09:58 I feel good now leaving that.
09:59 OK, I left something in the mind of Karl.
10:02 From your journey, this is my last question.
10:04 How would you prioritize ideas, timing and team?
10:08 Ideas, timing and team.
10:13 I think team. I think timing is.
10:17 Timing is really important, I think.
10:22 I think everyone is smart.
10:24 Everybody has great ideas, but the way you sequence the ideas,
10:28 do what at what time in the right order is going to make or break it.
10:31 Like timing, I think is really, really key.
10:33 Team like without the team, you can't do anything.
10:37 You need great people.
10:38 Like now we're on a very grand vision.
10:40 We need some of the best people with us to help make it a reality.
10:44 I'm so glad that you answered timing, because to me it is, in my opinion,
10:48 that I think it's always about the timing ideas.
10:50 Like you said, everyone can come up with ideas
10:53 and you need a team, obviously.
10:55 But it's just timing is the essence of success.
11:01 You need to have all components coming together
11:03 when you introduce the idea.
11:06 And on ideas, it's more, I think, like the creativity.
11:08 I think it's also really important, especially for us,
11:11 because our timing is late to the market.
11:14 We need more than average creativity to break through the market.
11:18 Karl, this is fantastic.
11:20 I love the opportunity to have this conversation.
11:24 I'm sure our audience in the Middle East.
11:26 I need to think about your AI idea.
11:28 You know, you made my day now.
11:30 But I truly think, you know, I love the product.
11:33 I hope one day you will change your mind and bring a foldable to the market,
11:37 because I would definitely replace my Microsoft Surface.
11:40 Amazing. Karl, thank you. Thanks so much.
11:43 [MUSIC PLAYING]