KHABAR Meher Bokhari Kay Saath | ARY News | 16th November 2023 - video Dailymotion

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#VoteKoIzzatDo #BilawalBhutto #SupremeCourt #NawazSharif #Election  ۔"Army Act say mutaliq faisla jald bazi mein diya", Ashtar Ausaf  ۔"No Confidance Motion kay bad kya howa tha? Fahd Hussain Nay Aham Bat Batadi  ۔"Ju Banda Khud IMF Deal Kharab Karaha Ho...", Rauf Klasra  Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY  ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.  Official Facebook: https://www.fb.com/arynewsasia  Official Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/arynewsofficial  Official Instagram: https://instagram.com/arynewstv  Website: https://arynews.tv  Watch ARY NEWS LIVE: http://live.arynews.tv    Listen Live: http://live.arynews.tv/audio  Listen Top of the hour Headlines, Bulletins & Programs: https://soundcloud.com/arynewsofficial #ARYNews  ARY News Official YouTube Channel. For more videos, subscribe to our channel and for suggestions please use the comment section.

Transcript

00:00 Assalam-o-Alaikum and good evening, I am Meher Bukhari.

00:02 The Supreme Court has issued a written ruling on the Faizabad protest case ending on 15 November.

00:08 The written ruling states that in the context of the Faizabad protest case,

00:12 neither was anyone held responsible nor was there any action taken on the violence.

00:17 As a result, the people had to witness the events of 9th May.

00:20 In the past, no one was held responsible for the violence and no action was taken.

00:25 The written ruling further states that the court has issued a warning for the future

00:30 by referring to the violent incidents of the past.

00:32 The fact that no action was taken on the case,

00:34 has made it normal to make violent incidents for personal reasons.

00:37 The written ruling states that the lawyer of Sheikh Rashid said that he wants to withdraw the second opinion.

00:43 The court repeatedly asked why he withdrew the second opinion.

00:46 The lawyer of Sheikh Rashid replied that he withdrew the second opinion due to a misunderstanding.

00:50 The written ruling states that it is surprising that a politician who has been the head of parliament for a long time,

00:56 and has been the minister of loyalty, has become a misunderstander.

01:00 The court also asked whether Sheikh Rashid withdrew the second opinion on someone's request.

01:05 The lawyer of Sheikh Rashid replied that he withdrew the second opinion on the basis of a misunderstanding.

01:09 The court's written ruling also states that three former Chief Justice's cases

01:16 have been held in the context of the Faizabad protest case.

01:19 They did not even decide to end the requests.

01:22 The requests were made in front of Chief Justice Asif Saeed Khosa.

01:27 But then on 25 April 2019, on the instructions of former Chief Justice Asif Saeed Khosa,

01:31 the requests were removed from the cause list.

01:34 Justice Qazi Faiz Issa Qisar Barahi has suspended the three-member bench of the Supreme Court

01:37 for the Faizabad protest case.

01:40 But the important thing here is that the written ruling that is being issued today

01:43 has referred to 9th May.

01:44 And on the eve of 9th May, the Supreme Court has declared the trials of civilians

01:50 in the military courts of the Panch Shukri Bench as unlawful.

01:53 And today, the Sindh government has filed an appeal against the decision

01:56 to stop the trials of civilians in the military courts.

01:59 In the request filed by the Sindh government,

02:01 the Jawad-e-Suhwaja Ministry of Law and Justice and the Ministry of Defence

02:05 have been appointed to the state of Pakistan.

02:07 Whereas in other free countries, Punjab, Balochistan and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa have also been included.

02:12 The Sindh government has filed an intra-court appeal under Act 184 of the Practice and Procedure Act,

02:17 in which the Kaladam Diffahat of the Army Act and the Official Secret Act has been called off.

02:22 In the request, the decision of 23 October has been called off.

02:26 In the request, while referring to the decision of the Panch Shukri Bench,

02:29 it has been said that apart from Justice Yahya Afridi,

02:33 four judges have not filed a non-constitutional case against the Pakistan Army Act

02:39 and Section 59(4) has been declared unconstitutional.

02:43 In the request, 103 cases of the 9th and 10th May cases have been referred to the Criminal Courts.

02:50 The decision of 23 October has been called off in the intra-court appeal

02:54 because the Sindh government is not satisfied with the court's decision.

02:58 And this decision is becoming a reason for unrest.

03:01 In the intra-court appeal, the decision of 23 October has been called off

03:04 by making 9 legal points the basis.

03:07 In these points, under 184, the requests have been made

03:10 and the question has been asked in reference to the right of the High Court Bench.

03:15 The reference to the imprisonment given to the Army Act has been given.

03:18 In the legal points, it has also been asked that the sections of the Army Act

03:21 which have been declared unconstitutional, what are the reasons for declaring them unconstitutional?

03:26 Similarly, in reference to the Military Codes, the previous decisions

03:28 and while referring to the case law, it has been said that

03:31 those decisions are not applicable to the 23 October decision.

03:35 This legal point has also been raised that

03:37 the decision on the petition was not given in a hurry.

03:40 This legal point has also been raised that

03:42 before giving the decision, the Honourable Bench had thought

03:45 that how far the effects of this decision would be.

03:48 In the intra-court appeal filed by the Sindh government,

03:51 the opinion has been adopted that the Supreme Court has not reviewed the law and facts properly

03:55 and the trial of the accused should be in the Military Courts.

04:00 The Sindh government has adopted the opinion that the accused himself has requested

04:03 that his trial should be in the Military Courts.

04:06 Here, it is important to note that the Sindh government is under supervision

04:10 and the head of the government is Justice Retired Magbul Bakir

04:13 who has a clear stance as a judge in relation to the Military Codes.

04:17 And he has one decision too.

04:19 On 6 August 2015, the Supreme Court's Sartar Rukhni Bench

04:23 had given a majority vote in favour of the Military Codes.

04:27 At that time, all the requests against the increase of the Military Courts' powers were rejected.

04:32 The 18th and 21st amendment were approved and the establishment of the Military Courts was also approved.

04:39 11 judges were appointed by the Chief Justice Nasir-ul-Mulk in favour of the Military Courts

04:43 while 6 were opposed.

04:45 Interestingly, almost all the judges who were present in the bench at that time

04:49 are still very relevant today.

04:51 For example, on 23 October, the request of Justice Jawad-e-Skhwaja was approved

04:54 in the case of 9 May against the accused.

04:56 While in the 18th and 21st amendment, Justice Jawad-e-Skhwaja was a part of the Sartar Rukhni Bench.

05:02 11 judges, including Justice Nasir-ul-Mulk, Justice Iqbal Hamid-ur-Rehman,

05:06 Justice Sheikh Azmat Saeed, Justice Anwar Zaheer Jamali,

05:09 Justice Sarmat Jalal Usmani, Justice Amir Hani Muslim,

05:12 Justice Gulzar Ahmed, Justice Musheer Alam, Justice Humarat Abandayal

05:16 and Justice Magbul Bakir were in favour of the Military Courts.

05:18 While 6 judges, including Justice Jawad-e-Skhwaja, Justice Asif Saeed Khosa,

05:22 Justice Ijaz Afzal Khan, Justice Ijaz Ahmed Chaudhry, Justice Dos Mohammad Khan

05:27 and Justice Qazi Paizeesa were in favour of the Military Courts.

05:29 They opposed the 18th and 21st amendment.

05:32 While Justice Jawad-e-Skhwaja had also written a controversial note on the decision.

05:35 He had said that the national constitution is the most important.

05:37 Parliament is not the most important.

05:39 Constitution has authority over all state bodies.

05:41 And the Parliament that creates the constitution is not superior to the constitution.

05:45 And its powers are not unlimited.

05:47 In the 18th and 21st amendment, the judge who had approved the Military Courts was Justice Magbul Bakir.

05:54 He has now started to reject the decision of 23rd October in the Supreme Court of the Sindh Government.

06:01 In the same way, in the 18th and 21st amendment,

06:04 the judge who opposed the Military Courts is Justice Qazi Paizeesa,

06:08 who is the Chief Justice of Pakistan at the moment.

06:10 And the decision of which bench will end the intra-court appeal filed by the Sindh Government

06:15 will be made by Justice Qazi Paizeesa, along with two more judges, Justice Tariq Masood and Justice Ejaz-ul-Ahsan.

06:21 A request has also been made by the Shodha Forum regarding the Military Courts.

06:25 It has been stated that after 9 incidents, the Shodha Lawyers are in great pain.

06:30 The number of injuries and injuries is increasing with each passing day.

06:34 The armed forces and other law-enforcing institutions have been mercilessly targeted.

06:38 The decision to call the Military Courts a "murder" has failed to keep the ground facts and the situation in view.

06:44 We have with us to talk about this, the former Attorney General, Mr. Ashtar Ausaf,

06:48 and Senior Reporter, Mr. Hasnath Malik.

06:50 Thank you very much for your support.

06:52 Mr. Ashtar Ausaf, I will start with you.

06:53 Please tell us, in view of the point of view of the intra-court appeal filed by the Army Act and the Official Secret Act,

07:03 how much weight is there in this?

07:05 Look, first of all, you should leave aside what has been brought forward in those points.

07:14 The point is that the decision that was brought forward was made so quickly, so quickly,

07:21 that we were all surprised that there were so many issues in it.

07:26 And where the Attorney General had made it clear about all those reservations,

07:33 that whatever objections and reservations there are in the Military Courts,

07:39 they will be removed. There was also the point of appeal, there was the point of open hearing,

07:44 there was the point of choice of lawyer, which is already there in the Army Act.

07:50 If anyone has the thought that this is a different species altogether,

07:58 then perhaps they did not compare the Army Act with CRPC.

08:03 This is very close to CRPC. In fact, when I was looking at this matter myself a few years ago,

08:12 the trial in the Army Act, the judge and the prosecutor both take oaths.

08:18 And in our other courts, it is not like that you take an oath before every case,

08:23 and say that we will abide by the law, and we will fulfill the requirements of justice,

08:28 and we will fulfill the requirements of justice. So, all these things are there,

08:34 and it is not a different species of army. It is our own, and I know that you,

08:41 the points that have been raised, all of them are balanced.

08:46 But the fundamental thing is that you have given a law the name of Karadham,

08:52 and said that it will be applied in all trials. This is a very surprising thing.

08:58 And there is another case that everyone knows about, and that is the case of Kulbhushan,

09:04 which was tried here, and everything was done, and that case went to the Human Rights Court.

09:10 There too, all these things were seen, that is this your law,

09:16 is it against the Universal Declaration of Human Rights,

09:20 is it against international law, is it against domestic law.

09:23 So, they said that no, only this safeguard should be there,

09:28 that you should appeal to a civilian, so you did that too.

09:35 And the decision of the Peshawar High Court is also there, and the decision of the Supreme Court is also there,

09:40 that in such cases, the Army Act is protected, and all these cases,

09:47 they have to be seen in that context, the security of Pakistan.

09:50 And one more important thing is that Article 8 protects such laws,

09:58 so you have declared it as Karadham, not only that you have increased the capacity,

10:03 but all those civilians, all those people who are involved in such cases,

10:09 tell me, are there any infiltrators, are there any spies,

10:16 are those people who are involved in our organizations,

10:23 are they in uniform?

10:25 This means that their trial cannot be with a face.

10:30 All legal requirements are met, and there is a judge, advocate, general office,

10:33 the whole department is there.

10:36 So, this is the encouragement of those people who are involved in this country and nation,

10:43 with their military organizations, and they do all these things.

10:47 And now, because the Panch Shukri bench had given a unanimous decision,

10:51 so now to hear this again, this intra-courts appeal,

10:54 will a bigger bench be made on the part of Justice Qazi Faiz Isa?

11:00 Yes, exactly, it will be like this, and it has to be a larger bench,

11:04 and those judges cannot sit in it who have given this decision.

11:08 So, it has to be a larger bench.

11:10 Thank you very much, Ashab-e-Qatani General Arshadur, who was with us.

11:13 Hassan, tell us, Sindh has filed an intra-court appeal,

11:17 has challenged it, why has Wafaaq not done it yet?

11:21 I think he has time.

11:23 Will he do it? Is there any news?

11:24 Yes, he will do it.

11:26 And then, essentially, who will be in the field, challenging it?

11:28 Look, from the Federation, Ashab-e-Qatani General Mansoor Awan is there,

11:32 but the Defense Ministry has engaged its own lawyer, Khawaja Haris,

11:36 and it is being said that from the Interior Ministry,

11:38 it will be Aymar Bilal Sufi.

11:40 Similarly, the government has also engaged a private lawyer,

11:44 the Sindh government has also.

11:46 So, it seems that, in a way, the Senate has also passed a resolution,

11:52 and from the Shauda side, as you have said,

11:56 so, it will have to be seen that the Supreme Court…

11:58 A very strong team of private lawyers has now been assembled.

12:00 Yes, yes, exactly, it is, and it seems that the bench,

12:04 like in the case of Ijaz-ul-Ahsan, it was surprising for everyone.

12:08 Not only did they say that they are non-binding people,

12:12 who are being held in military courts,

12:14 apart from that, they have made the law, which is 42 years old,

12:18 to be abolished.

12:20 So, it is to be seen that the bench, which will be there,

12:22 it will probably be seven-membered,

12:24 because it should be more than five,

12:26 it cannot be six, usually judges are in the tag.

12:28 So, which judges will be in the bench?

12:32 This is a very…

12:34 All will be different, it cannot be five.

12:36 Yes, it cannot be.

12:38 So, it is being taken forward with great optimism,

12:40 and in the process, what are you seeing,

12:42 that it will be made a bench quickly,

12:44 and the hearing will also start.

12:46 No, it is present in the law, in the Supreme Court Practice and Procedure Act,

12:48 that when the appeal is filed, it will be fixed within 14 days.

12:50 It will be fixed within 14 days,

12:52 and it should also be seen that those people,

12:54 who are under restriction since May,

12:56 and even Wafaaq himself has written that,

12:58 that maybe the majority of them are innocent,

13:02 or those who have less punishment.

13:04 Now, this was given in the Supreme Court,

13:06 that their punishment will be less than three years.

13:10 If such punishments are given,

13:12 then as soon as the appeal is filed,

13:14 the punishment is suspended.

13:16 So, these people have been in jail for five-six months.

13:20 So, as of right now, what is their status?

13:22 Their trial?

13:24 There is no status, they are under trial.

13:26 The trial has not started yet.

13:28 The trial was announced in the military courts,

13:30 that it has started, but it has stopped.

13:32 It has ended.

13:34 Now, it is not known,

13:36 who are they under their custody,

13:38 whether they are under the custody of the military authorities,

13:40 or the civilian authorities.

13:42 This is also not known.

13:44 And Hassan, tell me,

13:46 this is essentially,

13:48 what the Aad Sindh government has challenged,

13:50 this is the former Chief Justice

13:52 versus the current Chief Justice of Pakistan.

13:54 They have two different views,

13:56 as I told you in the beginning,

13:58 their point of views are established.

14:00 But that case was different.

14:02 That case was a constitutional amendment,

14:04 according to which the military courts were made.

14:06 And in that, it was about

14:08 the specific war and terror militants,

14:10 they were tried.

14:12 This case is something else.

14:14 This is the case,

14:16 in which people have been

14:18 being tried for 42 years.

14:20 This is the case.

14:22 And for the first time,

14:24 the law has been violated.

14:26 Now, the government officials say,

14:28 that whoever incites the army,

14:30 a civilian,

14:32 then he will be tried,

14:34 not a civilian,

14:36 he will be in the civilian courts,

14:38 not the military courts.

14:40 This is about the attack on military installations.

14:42 But the most important thing is that

14:44 there is no detailed reasoning yet,

14:46 on which grounds they have violated the law,

14:48 the five judges,

14:50 the military courts,

14:52 the detailed judgment will come.

14:54 And when is that expected?

14:56 It should come in a month,

14:58 we usually see that it comes in a month or a month and a half.

15:00 And I think that when the judgment,

15:02 when the case is fixed,

15:04 then it will be said that

15:06 the detailed reasoning should come,

15:08 on what grounds they have violated the law.

15:10 I think the main reason for that

15:12 is that there is no right of appeal.

15:14 If there are sentences in the military courts,

15:16 then their right of appeal,

15:18 the scope is not there.

15:20 They can file a writ in the Supreme Court

15:22 under section 199.

15:24 The right of appeal is one thing.

15:26 Usually when the Supreme Court

15:28 was Justice Bandyal,

15:30 they asked that will you give the right of appeal

15:32 to people or not?

15:34 So it was said that there are many cases,

15:36 like the carbassion case,

15:38 so that can also be affected.

15:40 Now see, Aamir Bilal Sufi

15:42 has been engaged, he is an expert in international law.

15:44 And from the side of Wafaq,

15:46 you are saying that there is hope that Wafaq

15:48 will also challenge.

15:50 Yes, yes, that is also there.

15:52 There is also information that

15:54 the draft has been filed.

15:56 Now it is a matter of timing.

15:58 So essentially how many appeals are there?

16:00 See, the scope is the same today.

16:02 But it will be from all four sides,

16:04 from Wafaq, from different ministries,

16:06 from many different people.

16:08 But apparently,

16:10 until the detailed reasoning comes,

16:12 then it is a law,

16:14 because the appeal has to be

16:16 within 30 days.

16:18 Otherwise, detailed reasoning…

16:20 Now there is no judgment of practice and procedure

16:22 under which the intra-court appeal has come.

16:24 Yes, yes, yes,

16:26 so the wheel is running a little slow

16:28 and the deals on the ground

16:30 are getting faster.

16:32 See, that detailed reasoning,

16:34 we usually see that it takes 2-3 months.

16:36 In fact, even a year,

16:38 in the time of Bandyal,

16:40 such detailed reasoning has come.

16:42 The problem is that

16:44 the appeal in the Supreme Court

16:46 practice and procedure act,

16:48 you have to fix it within 14 days.

16:50 Now it is a big challenge for judges

16:52 to write it quickly so that

16:54 the appeal comes and the appeal

16:56 goes to the logical end.

16:58 Now see, the appeal on the NABLA

17:00 amendment that the government has made,

17:02 that matter has been adjourned

17:04 because the Supreme Court practice

17:06 and procedure act's detailed reasoning

17:08 will come, it has a link with it.

17:10 Hasanat, today your detailed judgment

17:12 has also come, the commission has also been formed.

17:14 So, it has also been linked with norm A

17:16 that if the Faizabad Dharna case

17:18 had been acted on, then the norm A

17:20 would not have to be looked at.

17:22 But the commission that has been made,

17:24 earlier they were afraid of the toothless commission,

17:26 do you see a weight in this commission

17:28 that the TORs that have been given,

17:30 will work on it?

17:32 See, this matter, the judgment

17:34 and implementation of Faizabad Dharna,

17:36 Chief Justice Ghazi Faizabad is very focused on it

17:38 because of this judgment he was the victim.

17:40 The case was divided in the court,

17:42 the reference file was filed

17:44 and they are trying to bring it to the logical end

17:46 that the responsible people should at least

17:48 get their name.

17:50 At that time, judicial politics,

17:52 the judicial proceedings,

17:54 who was manipulating it,

17:56 and how the pressure was on the camera,

17:58 all these things.

18:00 So, it seems that Chief Justice Ghazi Faizabad

18:02 is making a precedent,

18:04 that he is trying that some people who are responsible,

18:06 who may be retired,

18:08 their characters should be

18:10 found out.

18:12 And it is highly possible that

18:14 the findings will come.

18:16 Because when this commission was made,

18:18 the government acted

18:20 according to the will of the court,

18:22 the commission was made,

18:24 the TORs were made in the same way.

18:26 And it was also said that the review file,

18:28 on whose instruction was it,

18:30 should also be approved,

18:32 the government also agreed to this.

18:34 But will the former IGs do this work?

18:36 Although their heads have been writing

18:38 that this is the test of Chief Justice

18:40 for the rule of law.

18:42 But will they do it themselves?

18:44 Will they lift this much weight?

18:46 If the commission is not

18:48 hindered from anywhere,

18:50 especially from the Muqtadar boys,

18:52 then all this will happen.

18:54 Obviously, it seems that the government...

18:56 In the past, we have also seen the Mehran Bank scandal.

18:58 But that matter is different.

19:00 Why are you so hopeful here?

19:02 Chief Justice is focused on this matter.

19:04 And you think that before retiring,

19:06 he should be given a chance to...

19:08 But this report will come in January.

19:10 And he will retire in November.

19:12 And Chief Justice has a big role.

19:14 There are all kinds of matters.

19:16 There are many things.

19:18 If there is tension in this,

19:20 between the Muqtadar boys and Chief Justice,

19:22 then there can be difficulties.

19:24 I think that it will be taken

19:26 to the logical end.

19:28 And the people who are responsible,

19:30 I think they will be in trouble.

19:32 Thank you very much.

19:34 You heard the conversation of Hassan Atmal.

19:36 We will be right back.

19:38 Pakistan People's Party is asking for a chance to come to power.

19:41 After Balochistan, the Muslim League is likely to see a breakthrough in the South Punjab.

19:46 The South Punjab is being exposed to 18 other political parties.

19:52 The electables of South Punjab are also invited to join the Noon League.

19:56 And on some seats,

19:58 the election is in the final stages.

20:01 The Muslim League is trying to get the South Punjab in the party.

20:06 The Noon League is likely to be a revenge of the Pakistan Party.

20:11 It seems to be happening from the same route.

20:13 Jahangir Khan Tareem is also claiming that he also wants to fight the elections with the Noon League.

20:19 The Pakistan Muslim League is busy in the process of finding a way to win

20:23 30 seats out of 46 National Assemblies of the Noon South Punjab,

20:26 and 65 to 70 seats out of 100 seats of the Subahi Assembly.

20:31 The Noon League is looking for a way to come to power through a unitary policy in three provinces.

20:35 The Pakistan People's Party is now asking for a chance after the demands of the level playing field.

20:40 Today, Bilawal Bhutto Zardari demanded at the end of the Workers' Convention in Ahmedabad

20:44 that he should be given a chance once.

20:46 He is not disappointed.

20:48 Whether someone becomes the Prime Minister for the second time or the fourth time,

20:54 give me a chance once.

20:56 I promise you, I will not disappoint you.

21:00 Old politicians and old politicians will have to sit at home.

21:05 Rest.

21:07 Bilawal Bhutto Zardari's demand is a story.

21:10 But before that, Bilawal Bhutto also made it clear that if you want to be a darling,

21:14 you have to be the darling of the people.

21:16 The people have the right to decide who becomes the Prime Minister,

21:22 who becomes the MNA, who becomes the MP.

21:25 No one else has this right.

21:27 All decisions are made sitting in the back room that this is your MNA, this is your PM.

21:35 If you want to be a darling, you have to be the darling of the people.

21:39 We do not accept any puppet nor do we accept a selected Raj.

21:44 In this game of politics, Mian Nawaz Sharif has met with the office holders of the Lahore Chamber of Commerce

21:48 and the British Deputy High Commissioner.

21:50 And once again, he has claimed for the economic improvement of the country.

21:53 Nawaz Sharif addressed the Chamber of Commerce representatives that Shabaz Sharif's speech was ready.

21:58 But when he was threatened, we stood up.

22:01 We are the people who will stand up against the ultimatum.

22:04 It was a big responsibility to save Pakistan from default.

22:08 And after that, when threats and ultimatums started to be met,

22:12 then we are the people who will stand up against the ultimatum.

22:15 We are not people who sit down.

22:16 We are not people who bow down.

22:17 I said, I was ready for Mr. Shabaz's speech.

22:20 He had to step down in the evening.

22:22 I threatened him a few hours ago.

22:25 I said, he has threatened, he has given an ultimatum.

22:27 Now you have to stand up against the ultimatum.

22:29 Elections are an open ultimatum against the Noon League, which is about to stand up against the ultimatum.

22:35 But first, he took a runaway from the constitutional requirements.

22:38 And now, he has become Bilawal Bhutto Zardari Ameen by giving respect to the Noon League vote from his statement.

22:48 Until your vote is given respect, Pakistan will not progress.

22:55 Senior journalist Fahad Hussain and Rauf Klasra are with us.

23:00 Thank you both very much.

23:01 Assalam-o-Alaikum.

23:02 Fahad Hussain, I will start with you.

23:03 Mr. Mian has revealed today that the speech of Prime Minister Shabaz Sharif was ready.

23:10 That he was ready to dissolve the assemblies.

23:12 But because then newly, freshly ousted Imran Khan gave an ultimatum, threatened.

23:18 So according to Mr. Mian, we are not among those who lie down in front of threats and ultimatums, but among those who stand up.

23:23 And the entire plan was just thrown in the dustbin.

23:27 You were very much in the thick of things at that time.

23:31 What was happening then?

23:32 The speech was ready, the assemblies were about to dissolve.

23:35 This was what, end of May?

23:36 This was roughly the same time.

23:38 And what Mr. Mian has said today is absolutely correct.

23:41 That such a matter had happened.

23:43 This decision had been made that it was the very beginning.

23:47 I think it had been a few weeks since the PDM government had come.

23:51 And in that, this decision had been made.

23:53 Back and forth was going on.

23:55 There was an argument that no, we should do it completely now.

23:58 Many people were saying that no, we should not do it.

24:00 We should get elections done immediately.

24:02 Now this debate was going on.

24:03 That Mr. Khan had started climbing at that time and had come in a very serious mood.

24:10 So a lot happened, but ultimately the decision was that it is better to dissolve the assembly and go towards a fresh mandate.

24:19 This is a matter of one and a half months after the vote of confidence.

24:22 Roughly, this was the time.

24:23 Yes, he was sent home in April, this was happening at the end of May, early June, the press conference.

24:28 What happened?

24:29 And actually the speech and everything was ready.

24:31 It was decided.

24:32 In that, it happened that Imran Khan had said that I am coming to do a long march.

24:36 And I will forcefully come here and bring down his government.

24:39 The preparations for the long march had started.

24:41 All that was happening.

24:42 So at that time, it was decided that it suits us too at this time to take a fresh mandate.

24:49 The internal debate that took place in it, obviously, had a very important role of the People's Party.

24:53 It had a very important role of the PMLN.

24:55 It was the role of Mian Nawaz Sharif, Mr. Zardari, the role of Moulana Fazlur Rahman of JUI.

25:00 And Mr. Shahbaz was the Prime Minister.

25:01 It was there.

25:02 Finally, it happened that this decision was made that the assembly is now being dissolved.

25:08 And it is absolutely correct that that speech was written.

25:12 It was also decided that when that speech was going to be held.

25:16 What happened was that Imran Khan, who was then involved that I have to do a long march,

25:21 he was informed that the assembly is going to be dissolved.

25:24 So now you have no reason for a long march.

25:28 There is no need to do it.

25:30 What you were asking for is going to happen anyway.

25:32 So let it be.

25:33 Stay silent.

25:34 I mean, the announcement is about to happen.

25:36 So what is the need for it?

25:37 But Mr. Khan is Mr. Khan.

25:39 I am not a first-hand witness, but he was told that he said no, now we will do it.

25:46 And if this assembly is going to be dissolved, then it will be because of me.

25:51 And because of my pressure.

25:52 He was explained a lot.

25:53 It was explained from within the Jamaat.

25:55 Other people, whom Mr. Khan used to listen to, he explained that do not do it.

26:00 Perhaps Mr. Fahad is pointing towards this infamous press conference.

26:03 What Mr. Khan was doing, Shah Mehmood Qureshi was sitting next to him.

26:06 He had received a call on his mobile.

26:08 He had heard the call.

26:09 Mr. Khan was also silent.

26:10 Then he said something in his ear.

26:11 And he continued with that press conference.

26:13 And everything was messed up.

26:16 Exactly.

26:17 And after that, when the announcement was made,

26:20 when Mr. Khan said that I am coming to Islamabad,

26:23 after that, the decision was made that we are dissolving the assembly.

26:27 This was reversed.

26:28 When it was done.

26:30 And this decision to reverse the dissolution was also taken by Mr. Mian.

26:33 The decision to reverse it was taken by the leadership of PDM.

26:35 So just hours away.

26:36 Hours away from dissolving.

26:37 Literally.

26:38 Just a few hours away.

26:40 What Mr. Fahad is saying, he wanted to take credit.

26:43 Along with this credit, one more thing I remember specifically,

26:48 that was distrust.

26:50 Mr. Khan felt that another hand will be given to him.

26:52 Because earlier I was being told that I will not be removed from the government.

26:55 I was sitting peacefully.

26:56 You remember that atmosphere that the allies are coming, going, it is peaceful.

26:59 They were telling everyone that nothing will happen.

27:01 Where were they going?

27:02 They felt that earlier also, they were being fooled.

27:06 Here also, they are playing me.

27:08 And this will not be dissolved.

27:10 This distrust or overconfidence was there.

27:15 There was a miscalculation.

27:17 Because he was very much part of the whole setup at that time.

27:20 And he is saying that it was just hours away.

27:23 Mr. Fahad has told a very detailed story.

27:25 He has told an insider story.

27:27 He knew many things.

27:29 He was watching and listening to everything.

27:31 One more thing I think,

27:33 Mr. Khan, about whom you are talking about mistrust,

27:36 this was at that time, you will remember,

27:38 in those days, in May, I think around 28th May,

27:41 here the government of Pakistan was negotiating with the IMF in Dubai.

27:44 It was around 30th, 28th or 30th May.

27:47 So Mr. Khan was told that you postpone your long march.

27:51 Negotiations are being made with our IMF.

27:53 If the deal with the IMF is not through,

27:55 then Pakistan will face more disaster.

27:58 Rupees will be falling over, dollars will rise,

28:00 our economy will be affected.

28:02 And the political turmoil in Pakistan will not be soothed.

28:06 This was told by big people, like Mr. Fahad said,

28:08 those whom he used to listen to,

28:10 he called them and gave assurances.

28:12 That you postpone your march for 4-5 days.

28:14 Then we will have a speech and the assembly will dissolve.

28:17 Mr. Khan understood two things.

28:19 One is weakness, that the government is scared,

28:21 the higher authorities are scared,

28:23 that now I will go and prove that the government has fallen because of me.

28:26 So the public pressure is in my favour and I will build it.

28:31 Second, he understood that if the negotiations with the IMF are going on,

28:35 and the negotiations are successful,

28:37 the deal with the IMF is through,

28:39 Rupees will start stabilising,

28:41 the economy is on the right track,

28:43 then the country cannot run without me,

28:47 the economy is going down and destruction is happening.

28:50 Then things will start stabilising.

28:52 And the thing about yesterday,

28:54 that they had promised me earlier,

28:56 and they are telling me that they will hold the elections for 5 days,

28:58 if they fail, what will I do?

29:00 So the element of mistrust that they are talking about,

29:03 was also there, that if their IMF deal is done,

29:05 and Pakistan starts stabilising,

29:07 and in this...

29:08 But you see, in hindsight,

29:10 if the assemblies were dissolved,

29:13 the political capital of the Muslim League was lost,

29:16 in those 16 months, that doesn't get lost.

29:19 Look, I think this is a benefit of hindsight.

29:21 At that time, we didn't know all this,

29:23 but the mistake that Khan Sahib made,

29:25 and later we saw that trend,

29:27 after every few days,

29:29 he made a political miscalculation.

29:31 Here, there was no cost for him.

29:33 What was the cost?

29:34 He just had to stop the long march that he was going to do.

29:37 That's all he had to do.

29:38 But because at that time,

29:39 he had this idea, and I think Rauf is right,

29:41 that my momentum is building up,

29:43 and the way my momentum is building up,

29:45 no one can stop me,

29:47 that's why the government is going to fall,

29:49 I am the credit that I made them fall.

29:51 And I literally made them fall,

29:53 and insulted them.

29:55 Why are we assuming that the government is going to fall?

29:58 The government was not going to fall,

30:00 and he showed that he had completed the term of 16 months.

30:02 He was not going to fall.

30:03 But this was a miscalculation.

30:05 He had this idea, that the way my momentum is building up,

30:08 and secondly, some people were talking on both sides,

30:11 he had this idea that now,

30:13 this is not going to survive.

30:15 But what you are saying is later,

30:17 and today, Mr. Mian has admitted that

30:19 he stopped the term of 16 months and

30:21 kicked the bucket, but he had to save the country from default.

30:23 He himself is saying that he kicked the bucket,

30:25 so this bucket could have been saved,

30:27 that today, this situation would not have come,

30:29 that today, People's Party, which was a part of the subcontractor,

30:31 has left the situation like a child.

30:35 Now, today, while giving a speech on Bilawal Bhutto Zardari,

30:38 Mr. Rauf is also saying that

30:40 give the opportunity to the young people,

30:42 and then give the opportunity to the old guards,

30:44 and then reject the old guards,

30:45 and then give the opportunity to the new blood,

30:47 and then let the new blood come,

30:49 and the biggest thing,

30:50 Bilawal has accepted the statement of giving respect to the vote.

30:52 Let's start with Mr. Mian,

30:54 None of this would have happened.

30:56 I mean, if we had not cast him,

30:58 then Mr. Shabaz Sharif would have been disqualified,

31:00 he would have been punished,

31:02 the FIA case was filed against him,

31:04 the day he was sworn in,

31:06 the case was filed against Hamza,

31:08 Mr. Indar could not come back,

31:10 Salman Shabaz could not come back,

31:12 the case was closed,

31:14 the cases of Faloode, Rakshay, and Tangay were closed,

31:16 the account of the case was about 40 billion,

31:18 the money for which the investigation was done,

31:20 was done by Bashir Memon,

31:22 and he was arrested,

31:24 then overseas, the vote was revoked,

31:26 the agenda was extended,

31:28 that was not to happen,

31:30 then the elections were not to be held through machines,

31:32 the powers of the Naib were not to be clipped,

31:34 now everyone did not want to come back,

31:36 and then the ministry,

31:38 so you are saying that you are enjoying for 16 months,

31:40 and after 16 months you are saying that we had made a big sacrifice,

31:42 you should not have given,

31:44 you have been sitting for 40 years,

31:46 you should have let him get trapped,

31:48 you should have let Mr. Khan go for 2 months,

31:50 and then you should have said that I had hit the biggest blow,

31:52 why did that happen,

31:54 Mr. Khan had spoiled the deal of IMF in February 2022,

31:56 which was a big disaster for this country,

31:58 which caused a big loss,

32:00 the rupees that we had,

32:02 the Rs. 250-300 that we had,

32:04 was a very deep relationship of the IMF deal,

32:06 which Mr. Khan had broken in January-February 2022,

32:08 you should have let Mr. Khan get eliminated,

32:10 you should have saved the money,

32:12 so basically you are saying that the one who has hit the biggest blow,

32:14 you should have let Mr. Khan get eliminated,

32:16 the governance was in all time,

32:18 I am in this right,

32:20 once this whole community should have let Mr. Khan enjoy,

32:22 his style,

32:24 he should have let him complete 5 years,

32:26 I think,

32:28 politically Mr. Khan had gone,

32:30 the way things were going on,

32:32 even now, I am saying in this right,

32:34 give Mr. Khan 5 years,

32:36 the country thinks that we have a big loss,

32:38 the economy is left,

32:40 and this country can be taken ahead,

32:42 after 9th May, he is persona non grata,

32:44 that is a non-starter right now,

32:46 he gave him breathing space,

32:48 he revived Mr. Khan,

32:50 otherwise Mr. Khan's capacity was not there,

32:52 with his fan club, we were watching closely,

32:54 the person who is in February,

32:56 is ruining his own deal,

32:58 what was his plan, what did he do with the economy,

33:00 tell me, what is this Girdhar Singhi,

33:02 is this just beautiful politics at play,

33:04 that people's party,

33:06 today the government of PDM,

33:08 no flag of 16th May,

33:10 is on him,

33:12 beautifully he has taken ownership,

33:14 the board has to be given respect,

33:16 beautifully selected,

33:18 and the favourite and beloved,

33:20 and this title,

33:22 has been given to him,

33:24 how?

33:26 I think, if your ultimate objective,

33:28 what is politics, that you have to come in power,

33:30 politics is this,

33:32 you have to come in power, then you have to rule,

33:34 if that is the definition of good politics,

33:36 then people's party,

33:38 has gone away from it,

33:40 now that politics,

33:42 is ok, all the inflation,

33:44 are you saying it is ok, the way the Noon League is doing,

33:46 no, no, I am not saying ok,

33:48 by hook or by crook, they are coming in power,

33:50 by hook or by crook, they are coming,

33:52 see, if Imran Khan gets a chance,

33:54 they will also come like this,

33:56 if people's party gets a chance,

33:58 they will also come like this,

34:00 but they are not able to do it,

34:02 they didn't get a chance, and the Noon League got it,

34:04 see, if people's party's smart politics,

34:06 would have been, that they distance themselves,

34:08 and avoid the negative sentiments,

34:10 of the people,

34:12 and take the votes of the people,

34:14 and they would have come in government,

34:16 they could have come,

34:18 but right now, their position is not that,

34:20 they have gone far away from power,

34:22 and the other party,

34:24 because according to them, they say,

34:26 we don't get the right to accept,

34:28 and acceptance is somewhere else,

34:30 so smart politics is not,

34:32 so is smart politics necessarily,

34:34 legitimate politics, that's different,

34:36 smart politics is, who wins,

34:38 so Nawaz is doing smart politics,

34:40 Noon is doing smart politics,

34:42 see, I am talking about the elections,

34:44 that's what I am asking,

34:46 the one who won the elections,

34:48 and made the government,

34:50 he is the winner,

34:52 see, in 2018,

34:54 the way Imran Khan came in power,

34:56 the same questions were coming,

34:58 and after that,

35:00 no one said that the elections were free and fair,

35:02 till today people don't say that,

35:04 but he was the Prime Minister,

35:06 the elections that are going to happen,

35:08 it is possible that it will be the same,

35:10 what I am saying is,

35:12 in long term trends,

35:14 you are absolutely right,

35:16 if you are doing politics,

35:18 that people are saying bad things to you,

35:20 you will be killed in long term,

35:22 but elections are not in long term,

35:24 elections are in 3 months,

35:26 who is the winner,

35:28 you are absolutely right,

35:30 Zardari sir, in my opinion,

35:32 in the race to become the Prime Minister,

35:34 Bilawal knows that we don't have a board bank in Punjab,

35:36 that's why he can't become the Prime Minister,

35:38 he is trying to secure two things,

35:40 one is to secure Sindh,

35:42 that we get it in future,

35:44 because there GD and other parties have put a roll,

35:46 that you have given Sindh to the People's Party for 15 years,

35:48 what have they done in Sindh,

35:50 they were in danger,

35:52 that we take it from here,

35:54 and we don't get Sindh from here,

35:56 so they are trying to secure Sindh,

35:58 that is their priority,

36:00 and second,

36:02 there is bargaining power for future,

36:04 that tomorrow Nawaz Sharif comes,

36:06 and other parties,

36:08 what will be our share,

36:10 it's all about fight for the share,

36:12 they know that Bilawal is not in the race to become the Prime Minister,

36:14 but in saying,

36:16 someone says that we should be,

36:18 you are from south Punjab,

36:20 to begin with,

36:22 and he came to Lahore,

36:24 and started meeting people,

36:26 he started talking about IPP,

36:28 and he was completely out of the situation,

36:30 similarly, Bab Party,

36:32 at the beginning of this year,

36:34 they were making a line to join the People's Party,

36:36 so they messaged Zardari,

36:38 who made Bab Party,

36:40 it was Zardari's project,

36:42 and he took the credit for it,

36:44 and he came here,

36:46 and the Sadik Sanjani,

36:48 he was made with Zardari's support,

36:50 and Imran Khan's senators,

36:52 many people will remember,

36:54 Zardari and Imran Khan,

36:56 were standing in one line,

36:58 so they were together,

37:00 to defeat Nawaz Sharif,

37:02 they were together,

37:04 and if today all the leaders of Bab Party,

37:06 have come to meet Mian,

37:08 then the message has gone to Zardari,

37:10 you talk about his life,

37:12 or tomorrow you have 8-10 seats,

37:14 and we will give you,

37:16 and the second problem for Zardari,

37:18 if he has started giving in Lahore,

37:20 then he has launched Bashir Mehman,

37:22 and Bashir Mehman,

37:24 all Zardari's cases were opened,

37:26 Feryal Talpur, Sharjeel Mehman,

37:28 so this fight,

37:30 they have sent a message to him,

37:32 if you come to Punjab,

37:34 this is our domain,

37:36 but in the past,

37:38 they had divided their domains,

37:40 you stay in Sindh, we will stay here,

37:42 you don't come here, we don't come there,

37:44 and tomorrow you come to power and share,

37:46 if you feel this is your last chance,

37:48 till I am alive, may God give them freedom,

37:50 if I am alive, I can make Bilawal the PM,

37:52 but tomorrow it will be difficult.

37:54 But this goal is not for both the elders,

37:56 Mian is also for Maryam Sahiba,

37:58 that is why they have made such a deal.

38:00 See, it is clear that,

38:02 they are trying to launch the next generation,

38:04 there is no doubt about it,

38:06 either Nawaz Sharif or Asif Zardari,

38:08 this is their last way,

38:10 to play a major role through elections,

38:12 the question is,

38:14 see,

38:16 in the short term,

38:18 the success is that you come to power

38:20 through elections,

38:22 but if you go to the medium term or long term,

38:24 then what you are saying is absolutely right,

38:26 saying that Bilawal will take the youth vote,

38:28 and the time of the elders is over,

38:30 it feels good to say this,

38:32 but you don't get the youth vote just by saying it,

38:34 for that you have to connect with those people,

38:36 are these communities able to connect?

38:38 Bilawal has been able to connect?

38:40 I don't think he has been able to connect,

38:42 because he is not alone,

38:44 he is on a party,

38:46 how is that party connecting with the youth?

38:48 And will Bilawal's politics be different from his father's?

38:50 It might be different,

38:52 and it is possible that he is calling for a complete short-term,

38:54 I don't think he is doing that,

38:56 he is doing the real politics.

38:58 Do you remember that he tried in Sindh,

39:00 when he came in the beginning,

39:02 that Faryal Talpur Sahiba, Pupi Jaan,

39:04 and the Sindh nexus,

39:06 he tried to distance himself from them,

39:08 brought changes in the bureaucracy,

39:10 and then he was brought back,

39:12 and then he had a lot of people in Lahore,

39:14 and then Sherry Rahman Sahiba was grooming him,

39:16 and counselling him,

39:18 and then there was Mr. Akira,

39:20 and Mr. Chand,

39:22 so the point is that he has tried,

39:24 and been unable to distance himself from his father,

39:26 and his post-politics,

39:28 will he be able to do it this time?

39:30 No, it is not possible,

39:32 because the power and the money is all there,

39:34 the Pakistan People's Party,

39:36 as a political organisation,

39:38 is not right,

39:40 and it is not just because of Bilawal,

39:42 there is a whole story behind it,

39:44 there is a story of governance behind it,

39:46 there is a story of leadership behind it,

39:48 Bilawal Sahib, even though he is speaking the right words,

39:50 but the weight of his Jamaat,

39:52 is taking that Jamaat to another side,

39:54 and in such a short term,

39:56 it is not possible that if Bilawal Sahib says,

39:58 I am the face of the youth,

40:00 then the perception of the Jamaat will change,

40:02 that will not happen,

40:04 that is why I am saying that these old Jamaats,

40:06 whether it is PMLN or People's Party,

40:08 their problem is that,

40:10 it is possible that they win this election,

40:12 it is possible, but in the long term,

40:14 their disconnect with the voters,

40:16 will be less,

40:18 and you still have the PDM formula,

40:20 PDM plus,

40:22 those who were not in PDM,

40:24 people like IPP,

40:26 and there may be some more people,

40:28 so this will be a big coalition from PDM,

40:30 who will sit in the opposition,

40:32 I think Nawazuddin Rasool Allah Khan,

40:34 who is going to become the National Government,

40:36 who will sit in the opposition,

40:38 if you remember, in the 1985 election,

40:40 when General Zia was sitting,

40:42 at that time, an opposition was formed,

40:44 and he defeated the hopeful Khawaja Safdar,

40:46 and became the speaker of Fakhr-e-Imam,

40:48 so an opposition is natural,

40:50 it will not be anywhere, but it will be formed,

40:52 but if the question is that,

40:54 if PDM plus is coming here,

40:56 then Nawazuddin can go with PDM plus,

40:58 he has some experience,

41:00 this was the quality of Shabazuddin,

41:02 that if PDM plus is coming,

41:04 then he can go with 2-4 people,

41:06 like Maulana,

41:08 he was the ANP,

41:10 he is not going to run 13-14,

41:12 this experience is with Shabazuddin,

41:14 he will not let Shabazuddin come,

41:16 if you see the last 16 months,

41:18 could it be that to give Punjab to Mariam Sahiba,

41:20 as Chief Minister,

41:22 Shabazuddin should not become the PM,

41:24 but let him become the PM,

41:26 he can become the President,

41:28 and he can sit it out,

41:30 but it is possible,

41:32 because Shabazuddin's

41:34 establishment comfort level is very high,

41:36 so it is possible,

41:38 I thought earlier,

41:40 that it is more likely,

41:42 see I think it all depends on Mian Nawazuddin,

41:44 if he decides,

41:46 then it will happen,

41:48 if he decides that I want to become the PM,

41:50 then he will become,

41:52 but the issue is that after he becomes,

41:54 after he becomes,

41:56 see there are two things,

41:58 one is that you are running this coalition politically,

42:00 second is that

42:02 in the circumstances in which this government is coming,

42:04 can they make decisions,

42:06 when you know that

42:08 the elephant in the room

42:10 is there,

42:12 and third thing is that

42:14 in this kind of politics,

42:16 ultimately you have to connect with people,

42:18 two questions,

42:20 don't underestimate independence,

42:22 but don't overestimate independence,

42:24 what they do after the elections,

42:26 everyone knows that,

42:28 this is right,

42:30 but the group of independence,

42:32 then it will not make decisions,

42:34 only by the moonleaks,

42:36 this is also an issue,

42:38 and then this is the time,

42:40 like Sajid Sajnani,

42:42 he became the senator,

42:44 so this is the time,

42:46 you don't believe in magic sir,

42:48 that is your problem,

42:50 Fahad sir tell me,

42:52 how long will the sword hang on Mian's head,

42:54 or on the head of the people's party,

42:56 is that threat real,

42:58 or is that a done and dusted possibility,

43:00 I think Khan sir is in jail,

43:02 he needs a two hour interrogation,

43:04 in 190 million pounds,

43:06 the court has given a 14 day timeline,

43:08 for this rap up of cypher,

43:10 is this a hanging sword,

43:12 he has an organic support base,

43:14 there is no doubt about it,

43:16 after the election,

43:18 will the new government be so weak,

43:20 that he can do such a great performance,

43:22 that he can become less,

43:24 that is a big question,

43:26 but as long as Khan sir is here,

43:28 he is somebody who is around,

43:30 think about Nawaz Sharif sir,

43:32 what was he 3 years ago,

43:34 he was a threat,

43:36 now that threat is actualised,

43:38 so the threat can be actualised at any time,

43:40 thank you,

43:42 lets take a short waqfa,

43:44 we will be back after the waqfa,

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44:44 Israel has also ordered to evacuate four areas in Gaza.

44:50 Israeli air forces dropped a panflet in those areas at night.

44:53 The citizens were told to evacuate all these areas.

44:58 It is now clear that the situation in Gaza is worsening.

45:01 Thank you for watching.

45:02 Good night.

KHABAR Meher Bokhari Kay Saath | ARY News | 16th November 2023

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