Last Presidential debate in Argentina: the candidates in a decisive face to face. teleSUR
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00:00 These are the candidates who in just a few minutes will face each other in the last presidential
00:04 debate before the November 19 elections.
00:07 And to begin our analysis today, we receive our first guest of the evening, Martín Martinelli.
00:13 He is PhD in social sciences, historian and activist.
00:17 Martín, thank you for joining us in Latin American Votes.
00:20 Hello, thank you.
00:22 It's a pleasure to have you.
00:25 So how do the candidates arrive to this last presidential debate, 20 days after the first
00:30 round that crowned Sergio Maza in the first place with 36% of the votes against Javier
00:35 Millet, who came in second with just about 30% of the ballots?
00:40 How do they come to this presidential debate?
00:44 I think Maza is stronger because it is beginning to be seen that Millet is the first.
00:51 He's blurring the idea of it and you see how impractical it is.
00:57 People are coming down a little from the injury he has, despite of course the economic difficulties
01:05 we are going through.
01:07 Argentina is a country in which we are in front, I guess to me, two different economic
01:13 crises from which we have managed to get out, but which have left a high level of poverty.
01:21 In the sense of inequality, it is similar to Latin America as a whole, the most unequal
01:28 region of the planet.
01:31 I think Maza reversed the initial election because the first was a vote based on him
01:39 there.
01:40 His support for Millet vindicates the darkest and most disastrous of our recent past.
01:46 Videla, dictatorship, Domingo Caballo, Carlos Aulmenem and Mauricio Macri, and that is why
01:55 he talks about dollarizing, privatizing, shrinking the state.
02:02 These are formulas that have failed in many countries and our case is no exception.
02:09 Martin, you have just mentioned some of the key topics that have been a part of Millet's
02:15 campaign and the economy is certainly one of the key points of this presidential campaign.
02:21 Let's recall that not only Sergio Maza is the current Minister of Economy of Argentina,
02:26 but also Javier Millet, an economist himself, has jumped to the political scene because
02:31 of his ultra-liberal readings on the economy and television programs and social networks.
02:37 What do you think are the key points we and the audience need to take into account to
02:41 understand the economic debate today in Argentina?
02:46 In Argentina in particular, we must not forget that there are an estimated $400 billion dollars
02:53 owned by Argentines abroad, an exorbitant sum for the financial imbalances suffered
03:00 in the country, and it clearly shows the existence of concentrated sectors benefiting from the
03:09 ups and downs of the economies, or as in the last loan requested from the Fund Monetary
03:16 International in 2018 in the Macri administration, which were mostly fled abroad, causing part
03:26 of the actual crisis, the financial crisis.
03:31 Presidents Lula and Fernandez have talked a lot about the possibility of promoting other
03:37 currencies to the dollar.
03:39 The other day, Lula announced that it was agreed to create a working group to study
03:46 the adoption of a reference currency for trade between member states.
03:56 There are several positions on this matter.
03:58 I think it is an interesting proposal that can offer new opportunities for countries
04:05 that use it.
04:07 Some postulate that it is not possible, however, the euro is also a currency between several
04:16 countries only with territorial continuity, but their countries have economies and populations
04:22 of very diverse sizes, as could be the case in the British Blues.
04:28 Given this model, it could be used for transactions between member countries, and the possibility
04:34 of new nations entering the group must also be considered.
04:40 Although it is a position that proposes greater sovereignty and decision-making power because
04:49 it gives the impression that the British Blues maintains a role of greater equality among
04:56 its participants.
04:58 That is why it differs from the G7 with members like the United States, UK, the United Kingdom,
05:10 Italy, Germany, Canada, Japan, and so on, which is highly dominated by policies supported
05:21 by the NATO, which after all, they are led by the United States, whose foreign policy
05:29 is based on allies or intervention and bellicosity towards those considered enemies in different
05:39 historical circumstances.
05:43 I think the topic of economy is central in Argentina because the crisis and the inflation
05:56 and the prices of the product is very difficult to the population, and this is a moment to
06:08 elect a new way to take because the world is changing, the geopolitical, the political
06:19 and the economic system is in crisis.
06:25 And beyond these issues, a more medium-term perspective is the broader use of the Schwan
06:32 in international exchanges or the implementation of a British Blues currency, which could help
06:42 initiate the de-dollarization patterns in some of the hegemonic uses of that currency,
06:50 as well as encouraging the use of their other currencies in exchange and not having to obtain
06:59 dollars as the petrodollar pattern imposes.
07:03 A necessary change is how the British Blues countries and the others as well continue
07:09 to drain surpluses to the G7 countries, as Michael Hudson suggests, that is something
07:18 substantial prior to the use of a new currency.
07:23 And the G7 countries with the United States imposing will resist both issues with pressure
07:32 from different levels, as they will seek to maintain their order and rules.
07:38 This has been seen in the number of economic sanctions they imposed, a form of hybrid war,
07:48 and they may also be one of the impulses or an acceleration of the search for alternatives
07:55 and greater distrust in the dollar as a reserve currency.
08:02 Martin, you were talking about some of the key issues in this debate, and because the
08:08 debate is going to address both economy as one of the topics, also international relations
08:13 as the other, you were talking about the global move towards de-dollarization.
08:19 And one of Millet's proposals that has drawn the attention of Argentines and around the
08:25 world is exactly the dollarization he is proposing, dollarization and the elimination of the central
08:32 bank as ways of allegedly taming inflation.
08:38 How would you explain this to our foreign viewers?
08:41 What's important to, what do we mean when we're talking about dollarization in Argentina
08:46 and what consequences could it bring to the country?
08:49 For example, in the region we have seen that during the mandate of former Brazilian President
08:56 Jair Bolsonaro, the country left unassured.
09:00 It will be something extremely negative for Argentina and the region.
09:07 It is quite likely that he will propose not joining the BRICS+ as that would be a short-sighted
09:17 view since Argentina traded before that with Brazil, China and India among the main ones.
09:25 He aligns himself behind what has been done by Bolsonaro or Trump who have left international
09:34 organizations.
09:35 So, if he were not to leave, he could try to boycott the group or Argentina's participation
09:44 from within.
09:45 In other words, he would waste the opportunity and potential even if he insures it.
09:52 Despite this, there are global changes in which your country is logically inserted that
10:00 cannot be undone like those mentioned above.
10:05 One observation is that powers play behind the lay and the international support by the
10:12 Anglo-Saxon axis.
10:16 United States and United Kingdom, more, even more Israel.
10:23 And hence its positions toward the dollar, demonstrating a supposed liberal interest
10:31 but that benefits those countries, the United States, England and even Israel, such as Manifest
10:40 Six.
10:41 Furthermore, the case of the Malvinas adds a geostrategic position due to its proximity
10:48 to the other islands and the Antarctica, an area of global interest in which it seems
10:57 willing to go under those countries.
11:01 It is likely that if Millet becomes president, this will lead to a series of resistance and
11:08 mobilizations against him.
11:11 Because he is a third of the voters in the Peso in the past of the first election, but
11:17 now comes the ballot election.
11:22 This alignment is into a single posture of submission to the Anglo-Saxon axis on different
11:30 planes, on different areas.
11:33 This is seen in his speech about dollarizing the economy when the world seems to be going
11:40 in the opposite direction, or in some way in trying to balance the weight of emerging
11:47 countries in reflection of the real economy, of raw materials and manufacturing, and not
11:55 from the representativeness of the currency that is supported by the petrodollar, unilateral
12:03 sanctions and different types of pressure to exercise control from finance by the North
12:09 American power, like we see now in the world, in the Middle East, when the United States
12:19 gets provoked and instigates the war in different places of the world, in Ukraine, in the Russia
12:34 case, in Israel and Palestine cases, in the area of Sahel in Africa, and in the other
12:46 side of the world, in China and Taiwan, because the United States wants to fragmentation,
12:58 wants to provoke different levels of war, the hybrid war, the technological competition
13:09 with China, and our country is in the middle of this push.
13:18 China wants to, Argentine takes a chance to pay, for example, in the IMF, and this is
13:31 a demonstration, a change of the entire world.
13:38 Well, in this case, Millet is negative to Argentine, negative to the region, negative
13:49 to the world system in general terms, because he is a fascist leader, like Bolsonaro, like
14:00 Shoshana Milani, like Donald Trump, and he derives the rights of the women, the rights
14:11 of the people, the rights of the workers in Argentina, the rights of the education, the
14:20 indifference level, the university, the schools, because he wants to privatization, and in
14:28 Argentina, the state is a very well sophisticated system, and he is run against all.
14:52 It's clear what you were saying, Martin, about the dollarization bid that is carrying Javier
14:59 Millet, how this really goes against the global move, where the global South is getting stronger,
15:05 blocs like the BRICS that Argentina is supposed to be joining, has been approved to join this
15:12 year, is really moving against this United States hegemony, and of course the dollarization
15:20 bid would go against this global trend.
15:25 And also, let's move to some of the other topics that the candidates will be covering
15:30 on tonight's debate, as we are closely following images from Buenos Aires, because the debate
15:36 is just minutes away from starting.
15:39 Martin, education and health are other issues that will be addressed tonight at the debate,
15:48 and throughout this electoral year, the libertarians have spoken on many occasions of the need
15:53 to privatize, you were just mentioning this, both the educational management and the health
15:57 systems.
15:58 Although, in the last few weeks, Javier Millet, seeking to expand his electoral base, has
16:04 tried to disassociate himself from those proposals that may lose him votes.
16:10 The debate on privatization is not new in Argentina.
16:12 It was very strong in the 90s.
16:15 What do you think we should take into account to understand what these proposals imply?
16:21 Can privatizations improve the access of the great majorities to health or education?
16:27 Yes.
16:28 I think that the Millet election is a great setback in all rights for Argentina's education
16:35 and public health in Argentina, recognized throughout the world, because they are pillars
16:44 through which greater equity among the population can be achieved.
16:50 I insist that a victory for Millet would be catastrophic, which would provoke many protests.
16:57 Furthermore, he's an obvious pawn of Macri, of the United States Embassy, and that is
17:05 why we will lose sovereignty, the right to study at the university and public school.
17:13 They also pursue advances in women's rights, as happened in Brazil with Bolsonaro, or in
17:22 the advance of the right in Europe and the United States.
17:27 I think the privatization is nefas and very, very worse to the people in Argentina, because
17:39 the economic crisis affects all the population.
17:46 Even the Millet election is the worst scenario.
17:53 Martin, what you were saying was very clear.
17:57 I think it's really good to think about this in terms of sovereignty.