Joanna Sustento-Bacsa lost five members of her family during supertyphoon Yolanda, holding on to her mother before the storm surge forced her to let go.
A traumatized survivor, Joanna decided to devote her life to making people aware of the effects of climate change.
In one of the most riveting episodes of this podcast, Joanna recalls that tragic day in November 2013 when the water suddenly entered their home and engulfed her family.
She surprises Howie by telling him that watching his documentary, “Climate Justice,” turned her into a climate activist, the kind who would protest alone in front of the office of a major oil company. She wielded a poster of her young nephew, still missing after being swept away by the storm, until police led her away.
Joanna and Howie talk about what still needs to be learned about one of the worst calamities of our time. An infant’s mother, she says the joy of motherhood was mixed with guilt about bringing life into this kind of world.
“I was sad because climate change took away my family, and it was discouraging me to have my own. But I wasn’t to blame for this mess. It was unfair,” she shares. “So when my husband and I decided to have a child, it was an important decision because a child means hope. A child symbolizes hope in the future.”
A traumatized survivor, Joanna decided to devote her life to making people aware of the effects of climate change.
In one of the most riveting episodes of this podcast, Joanna recalls that tragic day in November 2013 when the water suddenly entered their home and engulfed her family.
She surprises Howie by telling him that watching his documentary, “Climate Justice,” turned her into a climate activist, the kind who would protest alone in front of the office of a major oil company. She wielded a poster of her young nephew, still missing after being swept away by the storm, until police led her away.
Joanna and Howie talk about what still needs to be learned about one of the worst calamities of our time. An infant’s mother, she says the joy of motherhood was mixed with guilt about bringing life into this kind of world.
“I was sad because climate change took away my family, and it was discouraging me to have my own. But I wasn’t to blame for this mess. It was unfair,” she shares. “So when my husband and I decided to have a child, it was an important decision because a child means hope. A child symbolizes hope in the future.”
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NewsTranscript
00:00 Good morning, Podmates! How are you, again?
00:03 Let me remind you that a long attention span is a gift of wisdom.
00:07 It's been a decade since the super typhoon Yolanda this month,
00:11 the strongest typhoon that hit the earth in the history of the world.
00:17 It's said to be the result of climate change.
00:20 One of the victims was the town of Tacloban, Leyte, where thousands of people died.
00:27 Some of the family members were also affected.
00:31 But Joanna Sustento Baxa, our guest on this podcast, survived.
00:38 Because of her dedication, she became an activist for climate justice
00:43 and she is working hard to prevent what happened to her from happening again.
00:48 Good morning to you, John. Joanna, welcome to our podcast.
00:52 Hi, Sir Javi. Thank you for having me.
00:55 Joanna, the LGU of Tacloban, Kamakailan, said that the 10th anniversary of the super typhoon Yolanda
01:04 is a time to celebrate because of the recovery of Tacloban
01:09 and all the help that you have given to your town.
01:15 It's also said that the time of mourning is over.
01:21 You, as a family member who was a victim, what do you feel?
01:26 Do you need to mourn?
01:29 For me, Sir Javi, I feel like the term "celebratory"
01:41 the feeling of the 10th year, it doesn't resonate with me.
01:48 Especially because we know that even after Yolanda, many typhoons passed by.
01:58 And these typhoons also affected other families in different parts of our country.
02:06 Yes, it's important to thank the organizations that helped us
02:13 for us to be able to somehow move forward 10 years later.
02:19 But to say that we should not mourn anymore, we should be happy, we should be positive,
02:27 that's not relevant to me.
02:32 Because I also don't believe that the places that were affected by Yolanda
02:41 were able to move forward.
02:44 In my opinion, we still haven't moved forward.
02:49 We still haven't fully recovered.
02:52 Okay, Joanna, I met you because I made a documentary
02:57 that has the title "Climate Justice" in 2014-2015.
03:05 It was made in 2015, but we started in 2014, a year after Yolanda.
03:12 I interviewed you and you brought our team to your former home.
03:19 You shared with us what you experienced.
03:25 It was a very emotional experience.
03:28 You lost several members of your family.
03:33 Was it five members of your family?
03:36 Yes, we lost our parents, our eldest brother, his wife, and their three-year-old son.
03:45 What was the name of your nephew?
03:47 Tarin.
03:49 Is it true that he was still missing at that time?
03:51 We weren't able to find his remains.
03:55 So he's still missing until now.
03:58 Well, our hearts go out to you.
04:01 We know that even though 10 years have passed,
04:04 I'm sure you're still grieving about your loss.
04:09 But it's been 10 years since this happened.
04:15 How will you and your brother commemorate it?
04:19 How are you trying to remember them?
04:22 Every year, my brother and I spend the day with our extended family, our aunts and cousins.
04:31 We do what we usually do even before Yolanda happened.
04:37 We just sit together around the dinner table.
04:41 We just eat, we share stories.
04:43 Of course, we're going to visit the cemetery.
04:48 We'll also go to our old neighborhood.
04:53 We'll light some candles.
04:56 We should have gone biking, but I already have a baby, so I need a car.
05:04 Last year, that's what I did.
05:09 We biked to our old neighborhood.
05:14 To just see it again and light candles.
05:19 Yes.
05:20 And then when Yolanda hit, you described to us that you'll be together.
05:27 And for some act of fate, you and your brother survived.
05:38 But at one point, you were still holding on to your mother.
05:42 Yes, you'll be together.
05:44 And then you actually saw them go under the water.
05:50 It was later described as a storm surge.
05:56 At that time, I guess people in Tacloban did not expect that kind of disaster to happen.
06:07 I mean, it's common for storms to come, like wind and rain.
06:13 But that kind of storm surge, it was considered a rare experience then.
06:22 But what was it like?
06:27 At that time, you said that the water was rising and then going down.
06:33 So it was like a big wave and your home was engulfed.
06:38 So on November 8, 2013, we woke up around 5.30am because the wind was so strong.
06:47 And then all of us, including our family, lived in one house.
06:56 Our house is a bungalow home, so we don't have a second floor.
07:01 Actually, before the typhoon happened, we were already keeping ourselves updated with the typhoon warnings.
07:10 And our usual reaction when there are typhoon warnings is, "Oh, there's a typhoon."
07:18 I mean, we're used to that. It's normal for us.
07:22 Because ever since, we've always been hit by typhoons.
07:26 And we didn't understand what storm surge meant.
07:32 So what they're saying is that it's like a tsunami.
07:37 And we lived by the Cancabato Bay, so it's a bay, it's not an open sea.
07:44 So our father was confident that we wouldn't be hit by that storm surge because it's not an open sea.
07:55 But we didn't expect that the typhoon, this typhoon, Yolanda, it's a different kind of monster.
08:07 Our whole house was engulfed by water.
08:14 And what I remember was, we had to go out of the house because the water inside the house rises so fast.
08:27 It rises so fast.
08:29 And if we stayed inside the house, we'd get trapped.
08:33 And we might not survive there.
08:36 So we went outside the house and the water was murky.
08:42 It was like it was mixed with salt water, mud, and it was raining.
08:54 The wind was also strong.
08:56 I couldn't see much because everything was so white.
09:03 And it was like crushed ice was throwing it at my face.
09:09 That's why I couldn't see what was happening to my family.
09:13 Eventually, we split up.
09:16 Excuse me, it was like crushed ice was hitting your face?
09:19 Yes.
09:20 I think it was because of the water and the strong wind.
09:27 The water was carrying strong wind and it was like it was throwing it at my face.
09:34 The wind was strong, yes.
09:36 Yes.
09:37 Eventually, we split up. My family, before we were allowed to leave the house, was my parents.
09:57 So we were just holding on to something.
10:01 I think it was a log.
10:03 So my mom was here, me and my dad were on my right side.
10:08 We were just holding on because there was too much debris around us.
10:16 Our bodies were trapped in the debris.
10:22 We couldn't move if we still continued holding on to the gutter of our roof.
10:31 So we just held on.
10:34 And then I witnessed my father drown.
10:43 He was still standing.
10:47 He drowned again. He was still standing.
10:50 He drowned again. I didn't see him anymore.
10:53 How far was he from you?
10:55 We were next to each other.
10:57 You were just next to each other?
10:58 We were next to each other, yes.
11:00 I couldn't hold him anymore.
11:03 At that time, I thought that I couldn't do anything.
11:10 I really couldn't do anything to save my father, to save my siblings, my nephew.
11:19 I just focused on my mom, who was on my left side.
11:25 I also saw a refrigerator floating.
11:34 So I used it to help my mom.
11:38 That was our floating device.
11:41 But that refrigerator was hit by a wave.
11:47 So because it was hit by a wave, I was pushed to the building behind our house.
11:58 That building had high water level.
12:02 What was happening was I was being pushed by the refrigerator inside the building.
12:09 The steel trusses of the building were above my head.
12:12 The water was already in my nose.
12:17 So I felt trapped again.
12:20 I had no choice but to push the refrigerator away from the building.
12:27 I had to let go.
12:29 That's when my mom and I separated.
12:35 Because I was drowning.
12:38 You went under also?
12:41 Yes, I went underwater.
12:44 I felt like I was in a washing machine.
12:49 I was tumbling underwater.
12:53 I tried to surface but I couldn't because there were a lot of things blocking my head.
12:59 I was so tired of trying to surface because I couldn't breathe.
13:07 But I had to try again.
13:12 That's when I felt that I could push whatever was blocking my head.
13:18 I pushed it until I reached the edge of that tree.
13:25 I think it was a door. I'm not sure.
13:27 I climbed on top of it.
13:29 That's what I used to stay afloat.
13:31 I saw my mom paddling towards her.
13:42 I grabbed her arms so that she could also hold the floating device I used.
13:53 But my hand slipped on her arms and she went back to the water.
14:02 There I saw that there was no reaction from her.
14:09 She didn't struggle to get up.
14:12 I just saw that she had her eyes open and her face was frozen in shock.
14:27 I called her, "Mom, Mom" but she didn't answer.
14:34 That's when I realized that she was gone.
14:42 I couldn't do anything but just hug her and we just watched.
14:50 I saw steel frames of water tanks.
15:04 I held on to the steel frames.
15:07 I wanted to hold on to my mom's remains so that we wouldn't be separated.
15:19 But the current was very strong.
15:26 My mom was carrying the current and I was also carrying it.
15:31 I tried not to separate but I was tired because it was heavy.
15:38 Of course, there was no effort from her.
15:44 That's when I realized that I had to make the hardest decision of my life.
15:50 I felt that the hypothetical questions, for me, it turned into a reality.
16:01 What will you save, your mom or yourself?
16:07 If you don't let go of your mom, you might also die.
16:16 But if you let go, the guilt, the survivor's guilt is still there.
16:24 Will I be able to live with that?
16:27 Will I be able to live a life without my loved ones?
16:33 That was my dilemma at that time.
16:37 But I also thought that my parents made sure that I had a chance to survive before they let go.
16:51 I feel like they would really want me to live my life even if they're gone.
16:59 That's the thought that I've been carrying everyday since Yolanda happened.
17:09 I decided to let her go and I climbed up to the steel frames of the water tank.
17:20 I just waited for the flood and the wind to subside.
17:28 Thank you for sharing that.
17:31 It's still quite moving even if you've told us that before.
17:36 It's been 10 years.
17:38 But since then, one of your responses to the tragedy has been to take up the cause of climate justice.
17:49 You became an activist and you charted your own path.
17:58 You called attention to the issue and you're still active.
18:09 That was the trigger to change your direction in life.
18:19 It affected one of the major decisions in life which is what you're going to do with it.
18:29 Also, I guess the related question is did that choice to take up that cause, did it help you also emotionally in dealing with your loss?
18:45 Definitely, Yolanda's experience became an eye-opener for me.
18:53 Actually, for everyone, especially here in Tacloban.
18:57 It became an eye-opener for me in a sense that life is not just about me.
19:05 Life is not just about my immediate circle.
19:09 My life is just a small part of a huge community, a huge world.
19:15 When I realized that, I told myself that I don't want to waste the second life that was given to me.
19:25 I believe that I survived for a reason. I was blessed with a second life because I need to pursue something.
19:38 But at that time, I didn't know what that something was.
19:44 To be honest, I don't mean to patronize you or anything.
19:53 But when I found out about the climate walk from Rome to Paris, it was because of your documentary.
20:03 When I found out about this group of advocates who walked from Manila to Tacloban in 2014 and Rome to Paris in 2015,
20:15 I felt like these people were walking for us. These people were grieving with us.
20:26 Most of these people are not from here.
20:30 Most of these people who were walking didn't experience half of what we've experienced.
20:39 But they were doing this act in solidarity.
20:45 When I saw that, I told myself that's what I want to do.
20:56 I want to be part of something like that. I want to be part of something bigger than myself.
21:02 That was a pivotal moment for me to look for that something, to look for that purpose.
21:09 Excuse me, I need to share with our listeners that climate walk right before the Paris Conference on Climate Change,
21:18 there were Filipino climate activists who walked from Rome to Paris.
21:23 When they arrived in Paris, aside from lobbying and joining the activities and protests in the Paris Conference,
21:34 some of them worked on a giant mural portrait of your brother, Tiagui.
21:41 I just want to say that there was a personal connection also to you.
21:46 I'm sure that helped, that resonated with you emotionally.
21:51 Agit was actually a friend of many artists.
21:58 He was based in Tacloban like the rest of your family.
22:03 But at the same time, I never met him but I knew that he performed in Manila with his band in places I used to go to also.
22:17 And his friends who walked from Rome to Paris wanted to memorialize him, their friend,
22:26 but at the same time, they wanted to put a human face.
22:29 They wanted to put a face on this mass tragedy and on the issue of climate change and climate justice.
22:37 He was one of their chosen ones.
22:40 So your brother became kind of a symbol of the whole issue.
22:49 Definitely.
22:51 So when I was given opportunities to speak in different platforms, to share about my family's story
23:04 and how I was able to cope with what happened, that's when I realized that our stories matter.
23:15 Because these stories, they put a human face to the numbers and statistics of the climate crisis.
23:24 Because when we talk about the climate crisis, it's very technical, very scientific.
23:31 And most people, especially the masses, we tend to somehow...
23:41 Our attention span when everything gets too technical or too scientific, it gets shortened.
23:50 But when we talk about personal stories, when we talk about real stories from real people who experienced Yolanda or any disaster,
24:02 there's a certain pull. People resonate with that.
24:09 Because at the end of the day, no matter how different we are from each other, no matter how our cultures differ,
24:23 our generations differ, we just want to protect our loved ones in life.
24:31 We all know how to love and we are loved. We know the concept, we know the feeling of loss.
24:39 The loss and love is what actually brings us together as a community.
24:45 So my involvement in the climate justice movement, I can really say that it helped me move forward.
24:58 Because it gave direction to myself.
25:01 Because when something like Yolanda happens to you, and you lost your loved ones, your life, your home,
25:16 you don't know how to start again.
25:21 And when I was presented with those opportunities, that's when I saw that this is the path I can take.
25:37 That I'm not the only one who will benefit. It will benefit my community and hopefully the rest of the world.
25:47 I'll just share my experience. At that time, I was a news anchor in Umaga.
25:56 We would break the news about this.
26:00 So of course, like the rest of the country and much of the world, we know that this super typhoon is coming.
26:07 We know that it will be a big hit.
26:11 And when it hit, the first interview we did on the air, I remember, was a mayor from another town, from another part of Leyte.
26:24 And then, what he said was, "Yes, it hit, but we're okay."
26:34 They were on the inland. The other parts of Leyte were blackout.
26:41 There was no communication for a while.
26:43 So we didn't hear anything. It took hours for us to realize the extent of the casualties.
26:52 We didn't know that the number of people who died in Tacloban was that high until hours later.
27:01 So I guess one lesson here is disaster preparedness.
27:07 Because there was no communication and of course, there was little access to Tacloban especially.
27:14 Because you were the epicenter of what happened.
27:18 So that was one takeaway we had. It took a long time to hear the news from Tacloban itself.
27:25 The second thing is that there was a storm surge, something we had never heard of.
27:34 In fact, in all forecasts, it was not possible for a storm surge to occur.
27:41 Looking back, because we are reporters, we have weather forecasting, weather reporting operation.
27:54 We had discussed our choice of language.
27:57 So in retrospect, we thought that we should have said that there could be a tsunami of calamity.
28:11 Because if it's just wind and rain, you're already used to it in Leyte, like you said.
28:18 I mean, in many parts of the Philippines, but the storm surge.
28:21 And we realized later on that there is a history of storm surge, but like many years ago.
28:27 A hundred years ago though.
28:29 Yeah, so you actually have a term for it, "daluyong"
28:34 But of course, we didn't use it and of course, people there don't have much memory.
28:43 But you, looking back, what are some of the lessons that we should learn about this experience?
28:57 I think, on the government side, with disaster preparedness, of course, we need to be more proactive.
29:09 Yolanda could have been that eye-opening moment for our government to strengthen adaptation and mitigation mechanisms for the long term.
29:24 Not just when there's a storm.
29:32 Looking back, since we're already used to typhoon warnings and call for evacuations, people are not evacuating.
29:46 The times when they announce that you need to evacuate in the barangay, etc.
29:54 People are still not evacuating because they didn't feel that sense of urgency.
30:01 Because, as you said, the way that Yolanda was communicated, people can't fully grasp what a storm surge is.
30:13 They'll just say, "There's a strong typhoon."
30:16 "Oh, okay. We've had typhoons here a few times."
30:21 From that experience, the way we communicate typhoons and disasters, it's better if it's visual.
30:33 It's better if it's compared to something that people understand.
30:39 We need to localize the terms we use so that the most simple and most mature person can understand.
30:52 And he will act on the government's recommendations, on what the government is saying that needs to be done.
31:02 Apart from that, maybe a big factor is that our DRR mechanisms and policies relevant to these need to be proactive to avoid future disasters.
31:28 Our decisions on the government and community, on what infrastructure to do, for example,
31:43 need to be in line with the current times.
31:48 Maybe our listeners don't know what DRR is.
31:51 Disaster Risk and Reduction.
31:54 Sorry, that's a jargon for advocates.
31:58 So that's Disaster Risk and Reduction, strategies that the government and civil society can do.
32:05 So there are mechanisms that the government is putting in place so that the death toll of Yolanda won't be repeated.
32:14 But when it comes to the rebuilding and recovery phase, it's not proactive enough to avoid disasters.
32:23 And we can see that in the new infrastructures that are being built in our city, for example.
32:33 I feel like we still aren't taking into account the environmental and climate impact of these new infrastructures.
32:43 It's like 10 years later, we still haven't learned anything.
32:48 That's sad because the typhoon Yolanda was noisy globally.
32:58 The typhoon Yolanda influenced our global decisions when it happened.
33:06 And locally, sadly, it's not being implemented.
33:13 That's sad. Certainly, the climate change crisis needs much stronger action.
33:22 But I want to ask you about how the disaster changed you.
33:28 It was a very tragic event.
33:32 But at the same time, you were enlightened.
33:35 You said that you were given direction in your life.
33:39 Your life was changed.
33:43 It created some opportunities to act, to create some meaning for your life.
33:50 In a way, your life became colorful.
33:55 I want to ask you about some of the things you've done in the last 10 years.
33:59 You made the news because you protested alone in front of the office of a big company.
34:09 Why did you do that? And why did you do that alone?
34:13 As he said, my life became colorful after Yolanda.
34:18 I was very involved when it comes to climate justice strikes, climate protests.
34:31 But specifically in 2019, I went on a lone protest in BGC against a major fossil fuel company.
34:43 What I did was I stood in front of the fossil fuel company's office.
34:51 I held up a sign that said "Climate Justice".
34:56 Aside from that, I also delivered a letter to this major fossil fuel company.
35:06 With it, I attached the poster of my nephew.
35:13 This poster read "Missing" and the name of my nephew.
35:21 This is the same poster that we were handing out to people during the aftermath of Yolanda
35:29 when we were trying to look for him.
35:33 That protest was really to call on not just this major fossil fuel company,
35:49 it was to call on all the carbon majors. These carbon majors are the corporations that contributed 73% of the global carbon emissions.
36:11 They are the reason why climate change is getting worse and why the typhoons are getting worse here in Aten.
36:27 And of course, the forest fires in other places.
36:32 Why I did that alone? It was really to show that the fight for climate justice is a David and Goliath fight.
36:49 These corporations are huge and they've been existing since the Industrial Revolution.
37:02 They are huge enemies.
37:07 And here's me, who is just a small person from Tacloban.
37:15 I want to show that even though we are small people, we can demand accountability.
37:30 We can tell these corporations that they need to answer for what they did to our world with the climate crisis.
37:46 Actually, I wasn't arrested. I was just pulled out of the area.
37:59 But it was shocking because I think 40 police officers were sent.
38:06 And then, it's like, I was alone and 40 police officers were sent.
38:16 The sad part is that they didn't confront me.
38:19 They just sent an employee who wasn't really an employee of the company.
38:29 He was just an employee of the building.
38:32 That's all they sent to receive the letter.
38:40 So that's my experience of 2019.
38:47 One more big change in your life is that you have a family now.
38:54 You have your own family and you have a 3-month-old child.
39:00 What's the name of your baby?
39:03 The name of my baby is Daluyon. Daluyon Hiluway.
39:08 Okay. It's a nice name.
39:12 Of course, this child will grow up with no memory of this disaster.
39:19 I've talked to some mothers, the mothers who have babies.
39:29 And they have mixed emotions because on the one hand, of course, there's joy.
39:38 But on the other hand, some of those I've talked to feel some guilt
39:46 because this is the world we're passing on to them.
39:51 Like your nephew, he's so innocent and was just victimized out of the blue because of greed, basically.
40:04 And some don't want to change. They don't want to be concerned, basically.
40:13 Because of selfishness in the world.
40:16 As a young mother of this baby, what are your emotions?
40:22 I mean, when this child is already old enough to understand,
40:31 how do you explain it?
40:35 And then how do you feel about bringing this life into this kind of world?
40:41 Actually, I definitely relate to the mothers you've talked to, Sir Howie.
40:50 Actually, even before I got married, I thought that I really wanted to have a child.
40:57 I really wanted to have a child. But at the same time, I was feeling very guilty that I have that yearning.
41:11 Because we know what the situation is currently.
41:23 And it will be difficult.
41:27 But at the same time, I was sad because of the climate change, I lost my family.
41:40 Even my desire to have my own family in the future, it's not possible anymore.
41:46 It's unfair. Especially since we don't have any connection here.
41:53 We aren't to blame for this mess.
41:57 But when my husband and I decided, "Okay, let's have a child. Let's grow our family."
42:13 I felt that it was a very important decision because for us, a child means hope.
42:26 A child symbolizes our hope for the future.
42:37 Although, to be honest, when I was pregnant, I was thinking that I might be more afraid.
42:51 Because I don't want to experience what I experienced with Yolanda.
42:59 I don't want my child to experience what I experienced.
43:02 Of course, who would want that?
43:07 But when I think about it, I'm not afraid.
43:14 There's an inkling of fear, but it outweighs my feeling of courage.
43:25 I feel like I became more brave.
43:29 I became more brave because of my climate justice work.
43:39 I know that when the time comes, I'll be able to share that with my son.
43:48 I'll tell him everything that I did, that my friends in the climate justice movement,
43:56 in the community, and it's something that I will be very proud of.
44:02 That I became a part of that.
44:04 It's something that I'm proud of.
44:10 That his mother went to the Arctic, protested against the Norwegian government
44:19 because they were handing out licenses for oil drilling.
44:24 His mother went to the BGC and held a lone protest.
44:27 His mother organized for climate justice in different communities.
44:32 It's something that I want my son to aspire for as well.
44:37 I want him to think that when he grows up,
44:41 he will dedicate his life to his fellow man, not just to himself.
44:49 I've said this before, that at least when it's my time to die,
45:01 I became part of something very meaningful.
45:06 I pursued a purpose that's bigger than myself.
45:10 That's the values that I want to instill in my son and my nieces and nephews.
45:20 That you really have to dedicate your life to a cause, whatever it may be.
45:30 As long as it's not just about yourself, because it's not about us.
45:36 It's always about the person next to you.
45:40 Very well said, Joanna. This has been moving and profound.
45:45 Thank you for sharing your experiences and insights.
45:53 Our sympathies again. We know how the sadness will never go away,
45:57 but we admire your commitment to climate justice, to save others from the same fate.
46:03 Joanna, sustento, vaksa, mabuhay ka, at adiyong pagdala.
46:08 Thank you.
46:11 Hi, I'm Howie Severino. Check out the Howie Severino Podcast.
46:15 New episodes will stream every Thursday.
46:17 Listen for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and other platforms.
46:22 (♪)