Trump PULVERIZED AND SHREDDED by Jan 6 Officer, TIME TO PAY - Mea Culpa
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00:00:00 the January 6th committee. And now on top of everything, you've written this great book
00:00:05 about your experience. But all this time after the traumatic events, what is it that still
00:00:12 affects you the most?
00:00:15 You know, Mike, good to be with you, man. I always love talking with you and chatting
00:00:19 it up. I just like your authenticity. And I think that's one of the things that combines
00:00:23 that ties us together. But also what ties us together is I think what is still unfinished
00:00:30 business. And that is the fact that the former president has not been held accountable for
00:00:36 his actions yet. Now it's on the way, maybe, but it hasn't happened yet. And I feel like
00:00:44 that's one of the main things I don't necessarily say bring me closure that is, but it's still
00:00:48 missing from that terrible day.
00:00:51 Yeah, look, I understand. I mean, you know, the book and I started to go through it called
00:00:57 Standing My Ground. It's really, you know, quite a great read. I know myself that I find
00:01:07 myself sometimes when I'm having breakfast or I'm sitting in a restaurant and I find
00:01:12 myself almost transported out of where I am. And I go into this sort of tunnel vision of
00:01:21 PTSD where I'm just not where I am. And I'm in back in whether it's solitary confinement
00:01:31 or I find myself sometimes when I'm walking on the street, I almost feel like I'm back
00:01:36 at Otisville when we would walk around to the half mile perimeter of the facility that
00:01:43 we were allowed. It's a very weird thing. And I don't know why it happens. I thought
00:01:49 it would sort of diminish in terms of the effect, but it really hasn't. Anything like
00:01:55 this happening with you? Do you find yourself, you know, tensing up in certain locations
00:02:02 because you're still on the job?
00:02:04 Yeah. One of the things that yeah, when we get I get around and it's not necessarily
00:02:11 at work, but even in like my personal life, I go out with friends and we'll go out to
00:02:16 a crowded sports bar or whatever. And, you know, I get around people and I'm looking
00:02:22 for the exit or somebody bumps me. I I'm taken back to a place where I'm thinking that somebody's
00:02:29 trying to hurt me or something like that. And, you know, it could be the most innocent
00:02:33 innocent time. It doesn't have to be anything contentious, but just that still sticks with
00:02:40 me, just the physical reaction that your body has.
00:02:43 Yeah, look, you know, I was reading a whole bunch of the reviews on it and there was a
00:02:48 couple of lines that really sort of stood out to me. You know, they turn around, they
00:02:52 say that the author, of course, being you lucidly dissects the elements of the Capitol
00:02:58 Police and how they work. And he briefly discusses his youth in Maryland and his desire to play
00:03:04 professional football when physical limitations sideline those aspirations.
00:03:10 One found his way to the Capitol Police in 2008, where he observed how impassioned protests
00:03:17 demonstrated the power of democracy and freedom of expression like you. Exactly like you.
00:03:25 I believe in democracy. I believe in the freedom of expression. I have no issue with the demonstrators
00:03:33 being outside the Capitol. Right. Protest, make noise. You want to wear your stupid,
00:03:40 ugly red hats and carry your dumb ass MAGA flags and Trump 2020 flags. I truly don't
00:03:48 care. But I'll tell you what did offend me and continues to this very day to offend me
00:03:56 is the reason that they stormed the Capitol. And it's something that I said when I testified
00:04:03 before the House Oversight Committee that if in fact Donald Trump loses the election,
00:04:09 my biggest fear is that there will never be a peaceful transfer of power. And the whole
00:04:14 concept of the peaceful transfer of power is the basic foundation of our democracy and
00:04:23 how we go from president to president, to president, to president.
00:04:28 And we have done this 44 times successfully before Donald Trump ended up becoming president
00:04:37 of the United States. How would it be? How would you like to be one out of 44 or, you
00:04:46 know, obviously someone were doubled up. But, you know, what a terrible company to be in.
00:04:52 You know, it just just speaks to the narcissism and the all about me-ism that that he is all
00:04:59 about. You know, it's a sickening man. And like you said, the peaceful transfer of power
00:05:06 and the right to protest and the right to stake your cause. You know, I I've been a
00:05:12 man at the Capitol. We've been. Front line to front people who disagree with some of
00:05:18 the things that I disagree with. And that's that's fine. It's not we're not there to agree
00:05:22 or disagree. We're out to peacefully state your piece. I mean, hell, there's the Ku Klux
00:05:29 Klan is permitted to walk around and protest or to claim rallies and stuff like that. They
00:05:36 have that right as disgusting and despicable as I think they are. They still have the right
00:05:42 to do it peacefully. You know, once it turns into what we got on January 6th, then that
00:05:49 it goes out the window. You have almost almost forfeited your right to protest because you're
00:05:54 breaking the law. It's so true. But, you know, to finish the way that they discuss the review
00:06:01 on this, you admitted that you have been both praised and viciously vilified. Could you
00:06:09 imagine that there are people out there, whether you like Harry Dunn or you don't, whether
00:06:14 you like Capitol Police or you don't, whether you were pro Trump, pro MAGA and think that
00:06:21 nothing that they did was wrong.
00:06:24 There were still people who both praise you and viciously vilify you for openly rebuking
00:06:32 the insurrectionists who tried to destroy the very lifeblood of this nation. Yeah. And
00:06:38 then they say throughout this forcefully delivered book. And again, it's an absolute read standing
00:06:44 my ground. Your passion for true patriotism and the tenets of constitutional democracy
00:06:54 resonate throughout the book, despite, of course, as we were just talking about, the
00:06:58 emotional pain and the PTSD that it brought to you.
00:07:04 You know, one of the things I love this I love this country, man. I fucking love this
00:07:08 country. And, you know, and I have feel like I have to fight back even harder to steal
00:07:14 the word patriot from the cowards who hijacked it. You know, it's like you see somebody waving
00:07:23 an American flag. You don't. All right. The first thing come to mind, oh, they're probably
00:07:26 a Trump supporter. And how did that just get associated with one individual, man? This
00:07:32 country is it's a pluribus unum out of many one. Like we're supposed to have some fucking
00:07:40 melting pot. And I get so mad because I love this country and these people, they make it
00:07:48 seem like they're the if we don't agree with their views, then we're traitors to the country.
00:07:53 And it goes back to and I'm not trying to get all historical and you know, but in my
00:07:59 book, I talk about the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and how it was written.
00:08:05 You know, all men are created equal. But the people that they were talking to when they
00:08:09 said all men are created were white men that owned land. Unless you are a white man that
00:08:16 own land, they weren't talking to you. If you were an immigrant, they weren't talking
00:08:20 to you. If you were a woman, they weren't talking to you. If you were a black, they
00:08:24 weren't talking to you. If you were a white person that didn't own any land, you weren't
00:08:28 the person that they were talking about in that in the all men are created equal.
00:08:33 So it makes me go back and just think about how this always been a struggle and a fight
00:08:39 for, you know, not necessarily equality, but a sense of belonging. We've always had to
00:08:45 fight. And I'm just saying we the people that have been in the minority for the longest
00:08:50 time. So it fires me up. So I definitely talk about the this patriotism that I feel. This
00:08:58 is my country just as much as anybody else's. So.
00:09:01 Yeah, except the fire it up, man. Yeah, right. Well, yeah, it is. But, you know, the problem
00:09:07 is that they believe that they own and run and control this country. Donald has given
00:09:12 them that false sense of belief in that false sense of security. Look, nobody else that
00:09:21 I could remember and again, I was practicing law since 1992. I have never in my life seen
00:09:30 anyone as especially as a defendant. Nobody said it better the other day than this guy,
00:09:37 Michael Popock and also Neil Katyal on television said it as well, that you're sitting as a
00:09:46 defendant. Beneath Judge and Goran, right, who's sitting up on the dais at, you know,
00:09:54 at his at the desk and you have witnesses that are sitting higher than you on the stand.
00:10:01 And the second you go out, what do you do outside the doors? And there's a gaggle of
00:10:08 press that's there. The first thing you do is you attack the judge, you attack the AG,
00:10:14 you attack witnesses, you attack everybody and you say some of the most vile, inflammatory,
00:10:22 defamatory, witness tampering, obstruction of justice statements.
00:10:29 I want to just give you first thing this morning. The Mandarin Mussolini couldn't help himself,
00:10:35 those little chubby fingers of his started going and you got the all caps, the small
00:10:40 caps. And just for effect of my listeners got to hear this shit. This is from his untruth
00:10:47 social post. This rigged trial brought by the racist New York state AG Letitia James
00:10:58 before Trump and developer, I don't hating judge developer.
00:11:04 Now he's a developer before Trump and developer hating judge Arthur and Goran, which should
00:11:11 have never been brought in that the so-called star witness sleazebag lawyer for many people,
00:11:20 Michael Cohen admitted last week on the stand that he lied and also that your favorite president,
00:11:29 Donald J. Trump or anyone from the Trump organization, all in capitals, never told him to inflate
00:11:36 values on financial statements, comma, the opposite of what he told the AG in order to
00:11:44 get this hoax started. Now there's it goes on. Actually, I'm going to finish it. Therefore,
00:11:50 on that fact alone, this fake case should be dismissed. Additionally, however, the financial
00:11:57 statements values are conservative in brackets. Low all caps, exclamation mark, close bracket.
00:12:06 Mar-a-Lago is worth much more than 18 million. There is a 100 percent disclaimer clause on
00:12:12 the first page of the statements. The banks and insurance companies were paid in full.
00:12:18 No defaults. That's also a lie. They all made money and there is no victim in brackets except
00:12:24 me. Leave my children alone. And go on. You are a disgrace to the legal profession. Now
00:12:31 there's so much shit to unpack here. First of all, let me start by saying in the very
00:12:36 the very first the very second word in this this rigged trial. It is not a rigged trial.
00:12:43 OK, let me be very, very clear about that. Brought by the racist New York AG. Leticia
00:12:49 James is not a racist. All right. Before developer hating Judge Arthur and Goran. And Goran doesn't
00:12:59 hate Donald Trump. He is a judge and he's acting judiciously. I sat for two days on
00:13:07 the witness stand and there were things that I expected that he was going to allow, which
00:13:12 he did not. That benefited Trump. And then there are things that he did allow that, of
00:13:17 course, were detrimental to Trump's case. Then, of course, I'm not even talking about
00:13:21 me being a sleazebag lawyer, lawyer. But here's the part that bothers me the most about what
00:13:26 he's doing. This is witness tampering to the worst extreme. Who in their right mind? Because
00:13:32 the second that he put this out, they hate emails, the tweets, the text, the phone calls.
00:13:39 They all start coming. And he knows exactly what he's doing. The funny thing is he what
00:13:46 he fails to understand is that I have been subpoenaed to appear to all of these cases.
00:13:56 Right. And he knew that because I went and I spoke to him about it in the Oval Office.
00:14:02 When I first decided not to testify, I said thank you for the invitation, but no, thank
00:14:08 you. And that was at the suggestion of both Sean Hannity as well as Jay Sekulow, who ultimately
00:14:17 became Trump's attorney for a while. Number one, I never admitted on the stand that I
00:14:26 lied. I did state that I lied to Judge William H. Pauli, the third, who is the Southern District
00:14:36 of New York judge that sentenced me, that dealt with this case of mine, this one page
00:14:42 information plea. What I lied to him about was that I committed tax evasion and misrepresentation
00:14:49 to a bank. And again, for my listeners, just to be crystal clear, because I'll say this
00:14:55 a million times, despite the fact you've all probably heard it at least a half a million
00:15:00 times, the first time we ever spoke to the Southern District of New York, Nick Roos,
00:15:07 Tom McKay, Andrea Griswold, Robert Kazami, the first time was on a Friday night, the
00:15:14 17th of August at 530. I'm sorry. Yeah, the 17th. That's a Thursday at 530. And then what
00:15:23 they did is they gave us was I think either August, maybe the 16th of August. And what
00:15:28 they did is they gave my lawyer till the 17th that Friday, they gave him until 530 p.m.
00:15:36 to come and meet with him. But I wasn't invited to that meeting, which is unheard of the first
00:15:42 time that we're having, at which point he calls me, my lawyer calls me at 530 p.m. to
00:15:47 tell me that I have to go in and plead guilty on Monday at 9 a.m. 24 hours later over a
00:15:56 weekend or they're filing an 80-page indictment that's going to include my wife.
00:16:01 Geez. All right. And so as I was trying to explain,
00:16:07 but they didn't want to have it, it was all yes or no questions to protect my wife, I
00:16:13 would lie to the God Almighty. All right. I just would. Because my my first responsibility
00:16:20 as a husband and as a father is to protect my wife and my children. And that's exactly
00:16:27 what I was doing. They were going to they were going to indict her as a co-conspirator
00:16:32 to the hush money payments because she and I co-sign on the same tax return. And that
00:16:39 money was placed into her bank account at Capital One, which is where all the money
00:16:44 went because I was for the second time the victim of identity theft. And there was a
00:16:50 guy running around and I'm going to post his picture one of these days. I have it from
00:16:55 the bank. He's running around stealing the money. But just to go on right that nobody
00:17:00 I never told him to inflate the values of the financial statement. Thank goodness that
00:17:05 the AG prosecutor on redirect asked me about that. And I stated that's a true statement
00:17:13 that I made to the Senate Permanent Select Committee. He never specifically told me to
00:17:20 inflate the values on the financial statements. What he said, speaking like a mob boss. Was
00:17:28 Michael, I'm not worth five billion, five and a half billion. I'm actually probably
00:17:33 not even worth six. It's more like seven or eight. And then directed me and Alan Weisselberg
00:17:38 to go back to Alan's office and come back after we after we figure it out. Now, you
00:17:46 don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand what he wants you to do. Because we did come
00:17:52 back with the change numbers. And those numbers were given by Alan to Weiser, Mazer, you know,
00:17:59 the the accounting firm. And that's how the documents got, you know, ultimately produced.
00:18:06 So the point I'm trying to make in all of this, the man is unhinged. Captain Chaos is
00:18:15 out of control. The antics that he's that he's pulling will not stop. No fine. No gag
00:18:24 order. No decorum. No decency will stop him. The only thing that you can do is to hold
00:18:31 him accountable, very much like the insurrectionists on January 6th, some of whom have gotten as
00:18:37 much as what, 18 years. Yeah, he needs to be held accountable. And this Mandarin Mussolini
00:18:45 must be locked up to shut him up before something bad happens to someone again.
00:18:52 You know, like I that's one of the things I've always people say, what is accountability
00:18:56 look like to you? Fuck, I don't know. Whatever it takes to keep said behavior from happening
00:19:02 again. And, you know, like you said, the fines aren't stopping him. The lawsuits are stopping
00:19:08 him. Nothing's stopping him. So it's it's up to the Justice Department to include the
00:19:14 judges to determine a punishment that can that punishments are for deterrence, you know,
00:19:23 it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's.
00:19:26 Is it working? I haven't seen any evidence of it. Well, I haven't seen it either. But
00:19:29 on that point, again, going back to standing my ground in it, you're very clear that January
00:19:37 that January 6th was 100 percent an attempt to overthrow the government. Yeah. An insurrection.
00:19:47 But in all fairness, Harry, without folks like you protecting the Capitol, what do you
00:19:53 think would have happened if the mob had actually caught up with Nancy Pelosi or Mike Pence?
00:20:00 And what do you think would have happened if Trump had never called off the mob, even
00:20:05 though it took him an hour or what, an hour and a half?
00:20:08 So, yeah. So let's think about it real quick. It was longer than that. But let's think about
00:20:13 it. We got to take these individuals at their word. What were they there to do? Stop the
00:20:18 steal. They thought the election was stolen. So they were stopping the certification of
00:20:22 it. That was their objective. You know, as far as Mike Pence, what were they chanting?
00:20:26 They were chanting. Now, and this is this is the beauty, the beauty of it. I'd say beauty.
00:20:31 But the beauty of it is just not my opinion. There's their words. Hang Mike Pence. They
00:20:39 were wanting to shoot Nancy Pelosi in the brain. Now, those are my words. That's not
00:20:46 my opinion. Those were their words. They said that that was their mission, why they were
00:20:50 there. So what else can we go on? Like I, you know, at the time when it was going on,
00:20:56 I wasn't thinking about stopping the insurrection. Hell, I didn't even heard that word, you know,
00:21:03 until afterwards, you know, but I wasn't thinking about protecting democracy. But that's just
00:21:10 part of my job. It's what we do when you think about it. My job is to protect the members
00:21:14 of Congress and keep them safe, which was my and our co-workers. I wanted to go home
00:21:19 at the end of the night. So that's what that day was about. As far as the actions. Now,
00:21:24 everything that happened afterwards and telling the story and setting the record straight
00:21:28 about what happened is the important part. You know, you can't just stop there. I couldn't,
00:21:36 especially with these wild narratives running wild, that it was a tour that got out of hand.
00:21:43 That's not what happened. Yeah, well, look, and then go to the second
00:21:47 part of that question as well. Right. What do you think would have happened if Trump
00:21:51 never called off the mob? You know, I don't even know. What I'll do
00:22:00 is I'm not giving him any credit for stopping them. You know, I'm giving credit to the men
00:22:05 and women of other police departments and law enforcement who showed up that day. You
00:22:11 know, we had officers as far as New Jersey and we had people there that showed up. The
00:22:17 National Guard came and they helped us and reinforcements showed up and the good guys
00:22:22 won. So I'm not giving credit to Donald Trump for calling off those guys. I'm giving credit
00:22:26 to law enforcement that day who fought their asses off and defended this country and protected
00:22:32 each other. Yeah, well, look, you know, a very good friend
00:22:36 of mine who happens to be black turned around and said to me something that it was like
00:22:43 a gut punch. Said to me, what do you think would have happened if transposed that entire
00:22:53 mob and replace them with Black Lives Matter or people of color, brown, black, etc.? What
00:23:04 do you think would have been the outcome of that? We'll call it insurrection. Yeah. And
00:23:12 I sat there and I was like, oh, my God. Now, I'm glad that you asked that. So I'll
00:23:18 answer because I like to be very specific about, you know, incidents that happen. So
00:23:24 a couple of things. Black Lives Matter did come to the Capitol. You know what they didn't
00:23:30 do? They didn't breach the Capitol. They didn't assault police officers. They stood out there
00:23:35 with their message. They yelled at us. They cursed at us. You know, they said their message.
00:23:40 Now, this is just at the Capitol. I'm not speaking for around the common talk about
00:23:43 in New York or even at the White House. I'm not I'm not speaking.
00:23:47 I'm talking about also just at the Capitol. That's what happened. Those individuals, they
00:23:52 stayed behind the police line. They did not attack police officers at the Capitol. That
00:23:57 didn't happen. So and so that's why I say at the Capitol, I work with a great professional
00:24:05 top of the line officers there. They are some of the most professional, best best of law
00:24:12 enforcement that you will see. And I'm so proud to work with them. But I speak that
00:24:16 speaks to the professionalism of my co-workers. But I can't say I don't like to use that hypothetical
00:24:24 situation because Black Lives Matter did come to the Capitol and they didn't behave in the
00:24:28 manner as those rioters did. You know, the point I think my friend was trying
00:24:34 to make with me. Oh, no, I got it. I understand. But yeah, and I and I want to be clear about
00:24:39 this. If hypothetically Trump, who was still president at the time, saw a bunch of black
00:24:46 people outside the Capitol storming into the Capitol, he would have called the National
00:24:52 Guard. He would have called the SWAT team. He would have called Capitol Police. Every
00:24:59 officer within a 50 mile radius would have been there with their with their guns and
00:25:05 there would have been bloodshed everywhere. But it's amazing because it goes right back
00:25:10 to the whole point that I was making. The guy disappeared for hours, refused. And I'm
00:25:16 with you on that. He just should not and does not deserve any credit for the end of the
00:25:23 attack on the Capitol. And as far as setting the record straight, I hate to say it. Five
00:25:31 years later, I'm still trying to set the record straight on just something as simple as simple
00:25:41 as I never tax evaded. I have never not filed taxes. I've never requested an extension.
00:25:48 Like most people, you ever request an extension. I haven't. I've never either. I've never requested
00:25:54 it. Most people have. They ask for finances are complicated, though, you know, you know,
00:26:00 mine aren't anymore. They were they were at the time. Yeah. And I've never not paid taxes.
00:26:05 I had a CPA doing it for me. Whatever he told me to pay is what I paid. OK. Is it an omission?
00:26:11 I'll grant you that. But I will continue to fight to set this record straight. And I'm
00:26:16 going to come to D.C. very soon because I'm pushing literally for FOIA to release the
00:26:23 information, the documents, that four hundred and eighty six thousand pages so that we can
00:26:29 figure out how it's possible that I could be the first political prisoner held by my
00:26:34 own country because I refuse to waive my First Amendment constitutional rights. So here I
00:26:40 am every day fighting. And I hate to say it. The more I try to set the record straight,
00:26:46 the more the maggot morons, you know, I'm talking about those fuckers with the four
00:26:50 with the four teeth and the three brain cells. Right. They will they fight you now. Now this
00:26:56 the whole Trump team and others, they have all of these bots on X, you know, on the former
00:27:02 Twitter and the. Threads and Truth Social, they're just bots that they've destroyed the
00:27:10 platform. But let me move on and ask you this, then, how does it make you feel that the and
00:27:16 I'm going to quote this architect of the insurrection and I'm referring to Magga Mike Johnson is
00:27:23 now the speaker of the House? Yeah. You know, so. I, I, I believe in democracy, even if
00:27:32 it isn't the basis of the views that I want to be represented. You know, I can't be a
00:27:40 hypocrite. This is just me. I can't be a hypocrite and say that the Republicans have a majority
00:27:45 that they won in elections fair and square. Now, obviously, there's some gerrymandering
00:27:50 issues and redistricting and that's that's happening in the court. So let and all that
00:27:53 play out. But they won the election and the majority fair and square. See how easy that
00:27:58 was. He fucking won an election fair and square. Fucking easy. Go figure. But and they elected
00:28:05 this individual to represent, be the speaker for them. Now, people have been talking about
00:28:12 his past and everything like that. You know, maybe some things that we disagree with, but
00:28:17 you know, maybe I'm just this optimistic guy and maybe it's just misplaced or maybe it's
00:28:21 because I have a job to do and I focus on my professional. But I just hope that it works
00:28:26 for the American people. And if and this is the point that I make about patriotism. If
00:28:31 it doesn't work, who holds them accountable? The voters do. The vote is the most powerful
00:28:39 tool that us Americans have. And we don't utilize it. We don't utilize it. We complain.
00:28:46 We use those hundred and sixty characters as our most powerful tool. No, get the hell
00:28:51 out of here. Use your vote. And that's part of why I reason why I wrote the book is to
00:28:56 educate people and to encourage people to participate in democracy, participate in it.
00:29:02 Don't be a spectator. Be educated. And if you disagree, then hold them accountable at
00:29:07 the ballot box. That's the only way democracy works is people participating in it.
00:29:13 Yeah, well, that's true. So, I mean. It goes so many things that's happening today, especially
00:29:23 in this country, especially that revolve around Donald J. Trump. Our head scratchers. I cannot
00:29:32 figure it out no matter how many hours I stay awake. Yeah. And I've a separate over it over
00:29:39 and over and over again. Trump's poll numbers are better than ever with black and Hispanic
00:29:48 voters. Now, Harry. What the fuck? Seriously? Yeah. No, wait, I'm a stop you there. We're
00:29:57 asking the wrong questions. This is this isn't about Donald Trump anymore. What does that
00:30:02 say about our country? Are we looking at this shit wrong or are people just not informed?
00:30:10 The loudest it does it just because you're the loudest doesn't mean you're right. And
00:30:14 that's where we that's where we have to fight back with this disinformation. You know, I
00:30:19 don't know how to do it. But I'll tell you one thing that Benny Thompson told me one
00:30:23 day and he told me that truth is the best disinfectant. But everybody needs to be spraying
00:30:31 that damn bottle of disinfectant, though, not just the not just you, not just you testifying
00:30:36 before the Oversight Committee, not just me testifying for the J. Racist Committee. Everybody
00:30:42 you mentioned everybody that had dirt on Donald Trump actually spoke up.
00:30:49 But you think it would actually change anything? I mean, everybody that everybody that had
00:30:54 it. Hell yeah. But I don't listen. Would they just see you doing it? It's easy to call one
00:31:03 or two people a traitor. He's going to build bar and you would trade in your losers. But
00:31:08 imagine if his whole entire cabinet did it and then every people that know those people
00:31:13 that got dirt on actually did it. The fact that we get we get count the people on one
00:31:18 hand, maybe two that actually had the balls to come out against him.
00:31:22 And you being one of them, it's not many. But why? Because they're afraid. Well, of
00:31:27 course, they're afraid they have every right to be afraid. I agree. I'm not disparaging
00:31:32 them for it. Yeah. So, I mean, look, he lies to the American people every time he opens
00:31:38 his mouth. The other day, the guy comes out with this bullshit claiming that polls are
00:31:46 showing that his black support has quadrupled, even quintupled since his mugshot.
00:31:56 Do you understand what he's actually saying here? I mean, it is first of all, it's offensive.
00:32:04 Second of all, it's a lie. He's basically making himself into I'm one of you because
00:32:12 we know that one out of every ten black males in America have seen incarceration that's
00:32:21 based upon a bureau prison statistic. So he's basically saying I'm one of you. And as a
00:32:28 result of him being one of you, let me tell you something. He ain't one of you. All right.
00:32:33 That's one of the great. He wanted to know anyone grifton, the group that never stops
00:32:38 grift. Ain't that a bitch? Right. I mean, he just he just doesn't stop. He lies about
00:32:45 everything. And what does the guy do? He deflects. Everything is a deflection. It's not about
00:32:50 me. I'm not the liar. You are the liar. Anybody that says anything negative and then these
00:32:56 crazy maggots do the same thing. They just keep regurgitating his bullshit. But let me
00:33:02 move on and ask you this, because you're still active with the Capitol Police, correct? Yeah,
00:33:07 I still work there. So I assume that you see members of Congress every single day. Yeah.
00:33:16 How did the mega members treat you now? I mean, is there mutual respect or do some of
00:33:22 these Congress members still hold a grudge against you?
00:33:26 You know what? You know, one thing that I. A very professional when I do my job and I
00:33:33 try to just leave it at that, you know, I think of a moment where you think of something
00:33:40 bigger than yourself. And like I said, I don't do anything for me. I do it because I enjoy
00:33:47 serving my country. And that's what the way I'm doing it in this capacity. And that's
00:33:51 just where I leave it at, man. I don't I don't get into all that stuff. And it's easy to.
00:33:58 But, you know, I my eyes are set on the former president and the people that attacked us
00:34:07 that day. But as far as the members of Congress, I think that just goes back to what I say.
00:34:11 People need to be educated. People need to be informed. And the voters need to hold the
00:34:16 people, the members of Congress responsible. That's that's their job. Not not me. Like
00:34:21 I said, I I'm glad every morning to create a safe environment for them to work in. And
00:34:26 that's all that's what I focus on, man, because if I let all the other noise, it would. It
00:34:32 would eat me up and it would it would tear away at my soul. And I don't want that to
00:34:38 be the though the life that I'm living. I don't want it to. So I shape my narrative
00:34:44 to create a safe environment for members of Congress. That's it.
00:34:48 Yeah, I tell you, you're a better man than me because I'm not so sure that if it was
00:34:55 my job to protect people that put me in harm's way to the extent that they did, people like
00:35:04 Marjorie Toilet Green or Josh Hawley or Ed Cruz and so on. I don't I don't know if I
00:35:11 could have which look, they didn't put me on January 6th in harm's way. And I still
00:35:17 have no respect for any of them. So I give you a lot of credit for being able, you know,
00:35:23 to hold, you know, to hold yourself to that standard of not just excellence, but supreme
00:35:31 excellence where you're able to put the blinders on and say, this is my job.
00:35:39 It's kind of like the way FBI agents are or Secret Service when they have to protect someone
00:35:46 like Trump. I'm sure that there's a group of them that can't stand him, that, you know,
00:35:52 he just makes him sick because he's constantly attacking Secret Service, FBI, law enforcement,
00:36:01 DOJ.
00:36:02 Let me try to put in a little bit of perspective for you. So that that that seat is going to
00:36:10 need protection no matter who occupies it, no matter who occupies it, whether it's somebody
00:36:14 that I like or somebody that I dislike. So it does. You've got to think of the bigger
00:36:20 picture. That seat is what represents democracy. And like I said, a hundred years from now,
00:36:26 that seat is still going to be there if I do my job and if my co-workers continue to
00:36:32 do their job like we did on January 6th and every day before and every day after. If we
00:36:38 continue to do our job, that seat is going to exist and have the opportunity to change
00:36:43 ownership.
00:36:44 It's the same way with the presidency. Like the peaceful transfer of power existed. We
00:36:49 used to have 44 presidents. We're this close to not having it again. You know, like we
00:36:56 got to look at the bigger picture. And like I said, we just occupy this earth in this
00:37:01 country and this democracy for a short period of time. And we got to leave it better than
00:37:06 what we found it, man. But we're leaving it worse. We're leaving it worse. You know, the
00:37:10 way we're going, we're not doing a good job, but we can do better. And I can say, I don't
00:37:15 know where this optimism and this hope comes from, but you know, I don't know. I don't
00:37:22 know where it comes from. Maybe that's all we have. It's just something to keep me going,
00:37:26 something to make me keep from going crazy, you know. I believe we should do this in this
00:37:32 country.
00:37:33 Well, I would like to, but I'm having a hard time. I did want to ask you. Yeah, you too,
00:37:39 right? Yeah. So I wanted to ask you this. What about your colleagues, people like Caroline
00:37:45 Edwards, who also endured the attack on January 6th? How are they doing now? Is there any
00:37:53 going back to normal after an event like that? Do you guys ever just sit around, you know,
00:37:59 in like the Capitol, you know, the, what are they, like the deli that, you know, everybody
00:38:06 sits inside there, the, you know, the food court inside the Congress, you ever just sit
00:38:12 around and turn around and reminisce about how fucked up that day was and how dangerous
00:38:19 it was and, you know, how dangerous it is every single day, almost fearing that this
00:38:25 shit could happen again tomorrow?
00:38:27 Yeah. You know, I love that you mentioned Caroline, because I think the world of her
00:38:34 and what-
00:38:35 Yeah, she deserves it.
00:38:36 She deserves it. What a fantastic woman, what a fantastic officer, what a fantastic
00:38:40 patriot that she is, and God love her for it. But in certain circles you do, like the
00:38:49 enjoyment maybe for me and a lot of other people that I've talked to has been taken
00:38:55 away from this job. And it's not like it used to be. You know, it used to be you look forward
00:39:01 to coming to work, you used to be happy. But I think that's just part of the trauma from
00:39:08 January 6th that still exists. You know, it's, I mean, you go to work in a crime scene every
00:39:14 damn day, you go to work in a crime scene, you got to work there. You know, a lot of
00:39:19 shit, a murder happens in somebody's house or whatever, they're probably moving out that
00:39:23 house and never lived there, you know, or something bad happens. We don't have that
00:39:27 luxury. And I'm, you know, but I think a lot of people are just, I don't know, you could
00:39:36 tell people are frustrated. My friends that I've talked to are close, we don't really
00:39:39 talk about it that much, but we talk about the things that cause it and the division
00:39:44 in this country and how depressed or sad that it makes us. But the police aspect of it,
00:39:53 no, we don't really talk about it. We talk about it as concerned American citizens, you
00:39:58 know, and it's the outlook, it kind of sucks sometimes. But I'll keep showing up for those
00:40:06 individuals, those co-workers, because that's what it's all about.
00:40:09 I agree on that one. Now, you talk in your book about the healing power of telling the
00:40:15 truth. And rest assured, I know exactly what you're referring to when you were talking
00:40:20 about that. And I'm sure that it helps others. It helps other people when they hear you tell
00:40:28 your story. It's kind of like why I wrote the second book, too, Revenge, because I believe
00:40:35 that it helps to open up people's eyes. My question, though, to you is, has it helped
00:40:41 you to heal? Did you find writing the book cathartic?
00:40:45 It was very cathartic. But it also, I addressed a lot of issues that exist in this country
00:40:54 that have existed for a long period of time. And talking about it doesn't make me happy.
00:41:02 But it fuels me to know that I inspired one person or two people. I'm going to tell my
00:41:11 truth regardless. I'm going to tell my story because it makes me feel good. And along that
00:41:16 process, if one or two people is inspired by something that I said or did, and they
00:41:23 can do something different, it's fucking worth it, man.
00:41:28 But yeah, it definitely brought about some healing, but it also opened up some wounds
00:41:32 that, you know, like, this country's been like this for a long time. And if you think
00:41:43 about it, it's sad.
00:41:44 Yeah, sad is right. You know, like I said before, you're a better man than me. I don't
00:41:46 want to inspire one person or two people. It's like also why I have the other podcast,
00:41:52 Political Beatdown. My goal is to take my listeners from mea culpa, incorporate them
00:41:58 into my listeners of Political Beatdown. And I don't want one or two. I want millions.
00:42:05 I want to change the minds of millions of people. I want to open the minds and the eyes
00:42:11 and the ears of millions of people.
00:42:14 Of course.
00:42:15 To a man who I truly believe is the greatest danger to American democracy that exists for
00:42:22 the last 100 years. And I say that as someone who sat with him day in and day out for over
00:42:29 a decade, shoulder to shoulder. He is truly the most dangerous person right now in this
00:42:39 country as it relates especially to democracy.
00:42:45 I agree. But it's not just him, though. At this moment, he is. But I talk in my book
00:42:51 about if Donald Trump goes to jail, how will I feel? I'll celebrate for a moment, but then
00:42:58 I'll go back to realize the idea that he brought to the forefront. It doesn't go away just
00:43:06 because he goes to jail. In fact, it might become stronger. MAGA doesn't go away with
00:43:12 Donald Trump goes to jail. It doesn't. In fact, like I said, it may embolden somebody
00:43:18 even more to become somebody to redeem him. He's redeemer or whatever. I don't know. But
00:43:27 it's scary, man. But we got to keep fighting. We can't just get what is the other alternative?
00:43:35 Just give up? I don't know, man. I can't do that. And I hope and pray that so many people,
00:43:42 so many other people are ready to fight. And let me clarify, because Rudy Giuliani talking
00:43:50 about fight like hell and Donald Trump go down and fight, I don't mean it in a physical
00:43:54 sense. I mean, make that clear, because clearly they didn't make that distinction. But it's
00:44:01 important to fight for your country at the ballot box by getting in a good soul.
00:44:08 I say that all the time, that the only way to beat MAGA ideology is you vote these assholes
00:44:14 out of office. That's it. And then push them back into the hole that they fell out of or
00:44:20 that they crawled out of. That's the only way to do it. But I want to ask you something
00:44:24 else because it just popped into my head. With the book, you're obviously doing a lot
00:44:31 of road promotion of the book and so on. What are you seeing out there? Do you think as
00:44:39 a country that we're more divided today than ever in our lifetimes? And do you think that
00:44:46 Americans are still, for the most part, are still good people?
00:44:51 I think that we are more similar than we are divided. I think that the divisiveness is
00:44:58 just the loud part. I do believe majority of Americans are good individuals. They're
00:45:05 good people. I believe that in the bottom of my heart. The problem is the loud ones,
00:45:13 like you said, the trolls and the media, they represent the smallest population. They're
00:45:20 the loudest, which is why we keep focusing on them. But I've learned and I'm learning
00:45:26 that focusing on the individuals that are like-minded like you, and I'm not talking
00:45:31 about an echo chamber, but like-minded as far as decency. Those are individuals that
00:45:36 I will talk to no matter what issues we agree on, but just have the decency to respect your
00:45:43 fellow man. Those are the individuals that I focus on, that I want to talk to. Because
00:45:48 no matter what... Let me tell you something, when my book, when it hit Amazon, within an
00:45:53 hour, there was already a review on it of one star, talking about liar, don't believe
00:45:59 nothing. You didn't even have an opportunity to read it. There's no way you read my book
00:46:02 that fast. So I will talk to with like-minded... Because some people, it don't matter what
00:46:08 you say. It don't matter what you show them. Their head is in the sand, and that's it.
00:46:14 But like-minded, decent individuals, like-minded with the decency effect, like I said, not
00:46:19 in all beliefs. I've had conversations with pro-choice and... What's the opposite of pro-choice?
00:46:27 The anti-abortion people. I'm talking to people all the time that are decent individuals,
00:46:32 and you try to... That's how you reach people. You have conversations.
00:46:38 I always say to the pro-lifers, I'm all for you. Don't get me wrong. I don't give a flying
00:46:46 shit if you have 30 children. I really don't give a fuck. It means nothing to me. When
00:46:53 those kids get sick, when they're crying at night, that's on you. Has no bearing on my
00:46:59 life whatsoever. But your theocratic ideology on life, whether it is predicated on Judeo-Christian
00:47:16 belief or just evangelical Christian ideology, Southern white Christian coalition beliefs,
00:47:27 that's all good for you. I wish you the best in whatever you want, but stay the fuck out
00:47:34 of my business. It has nothing to do with you. Let the woman decide. If the woman's
00:47:41 decision is pro-life, God bless her. I wish her and her children health, happiness, success,
00:47:49 love, joy, as we like to say in Jewish, nachas, from your children and God-willing grandchildren
00:47:56 and great-grandchildren, I wish you all the best. But if my belief is a woman should have
00:48:04 the right to choose and that if her choice is to terminate that child or that fetus,
00:48:14 I should say, that's her decision. You be you and let me be me. So I don't understand
00:48:21 this where you think like in the Handmaid's Tale as a commander, you have the right to
00:48:28 turn around and to take a woman's right to choose away from them. That's it's more than
00:48:33 just about the fetus. It's more than just about the pregnancy. There's so much more
00:48:39 here at stake. I agree, but I think we could just be simplified it and just say it's none
00:48:47 of our business. That's the simple part. It's none of my business what anybody chooses to
00:48:53 do with their body, period. Exactly, whichever way that you want to go. So look, another
00:49:00 thing, you and I, you know, we engage in conversation, obviously outside of the podcast. And so and
00:49:07 you know that I happen to be a big fan of the police. Yeah. What in your opinion, right
00:49:14 now, is the state of policing in America today? I mean, are there still good, honest cops
00:49:23 who come to the job each and every day to serve and protect them? And because I would
00:49:30 agree, I would agree with you with that. But because it's so tough to be a police officer
00:49:35 today. Who is it that's drawn to the field? Because I see and I hear every day on social
00:49:43 media on postings and so on, you know, with all of the stuff that was going on in terms
00:49:49 of the way police officers are reacting, they're very fast to pull the gun, especially if it's
00:49:56 on a young black male, and so on. You know, this is a real problem in America, too. First
00:50:02 of all, the fact that there's so many guns in America, and everybody today thinks that
00:50:07 they're in the wild, wild west. My real question is, you know, being that it's really tough
00:50:14 to be an officer today. Who is it that you see getting drawn to the field?
00:50:19 Yeah, so the state of policing, like, I got to make it clear that majority of the police
00:50:25 officers who interact on a day to day basis, are there to serve, and they love their job,
00:50:31 and they're doing it for the right reason, majority of them. The problem is, one, fuck
00:50:39 up, so to speak, is too many. And that may be unrealistic, because we're humans, and
00:50:44 we make mistakes. But when you're dealing with life, it's crazy, because we're humans,
00:50:54 police officers aren't robots, and humans make mistakes. But willful mistake making
00:51:02 is I think, what's problematic. People that are just out there with regard, no regard,
00:51:08 and they think that they're above the law. I mean, hell, it happened with the presidency,
00:51:12 why wouldn't that happen in policing? So I think that's where we run into the issue.
00:51:19 And wanting to hold people accountable, not necessarily for mistakes, and yeah, mistakes,
00:51:24 you have to be accountable for mistakes. But there's a level of, like you said, willful
00:51:28 intent, like you talk about with law, and everything like that, willfully, those are
00:51:33 a lot of the key words that come down when you're talking about applying sentences and
00:51:39 charges. It's all about willful intent. So yeah, there still need to be change, because
00:51:48 like you said, like I said, one mistake when you're dealing with life is too many. And
00:51:53 I'm not, even a mistake, I said, I'm not blaming an officer, because we're humans, we make
00:51:57 mistakes. The willful ones is where I will, without a doubt, hold somebody accountable
00:52:03 in my eyes for it. But on the flip side, society doesn't make it easy for police officers
00:52:13 to be police officers, especially in this climate where we're looked at as this enemy,
00:52:19 and everything like that. I hate the thin blue line thing, right? It's a thin blue line
00:52:25 that holds it up. Why isn't that line thick? We should have all the support of everybody
00:52:32 in the world, and we should strive for that. Like these communities, like these tight knit
00:52:36 communities that you hear about and you see in these small towns and everything, that's
00:52:40 what you want, that's what you need. And I think we, I don't, maybe this is a crap dream
00:52:47 or a crap shoot or a pipe dream, whatever the fucking term is, but you just want for
00:52:54 so much for, you want it to be this tight knit communities that I guess really don't
00:53:00 exist because it goes back to what you were saying earlier, just divide in this country.
00:53:05 And it's not just liberals and conservatives, it's people that like the police and don't
00:53:10 like the police. I got to hold society accountable a little bit too for it. Even though cops,
00:53:18 we sign up to serve the communities. Sometimes it ain't easy to serve people that don't want
00:53:26 to be served, I guess.
00:53:29 And the reason I bring up that question, Harry, is because part of your mission now is actually
00:53:34 to reform policing. And it reminds me so much of like that movie, American Gangster with
00:53:40 Richie Robbins, right?
00:53:42 Yes.
00:53:43 Yes. Do cops resent you for trying to change the system or do they welcome the change?
00:53:51 You know, it's very hard because you're talking about a system that has existed for a very
00:53:57 long period of time. And I'm with you when I say I have nothing but the utmost of respect
00:54:04 for the men and women of blue. When I see them walking in the street here in New York
00:54:10 City, I will always stop and thank them for their service. I did it when I was there at
00:54:17 the courthouse. They took great care of me, like incredible care. I truly appreciate the
00:54:24 job that they have to do. I don't think I could do it. In fact, I know for a fact that
00:54:29 I would not be able to do it.
00:54:32 My question to you, you're trying to change the system. Do they welcome it?
00:54:36 I don't necessarily know if it's about changing the system, man. I think it's just as simple
00:54:42 as changing the person. You got to change the people. I tell you, I look at it when
00:54:48 I try to train new officers that come on. I look at these, I call it the three Cs. And
00:54:54 if you possess these three Cs, you can be a good police officer. Confidence, courage,
00:55:03 and this one escapes people, is compassion. Need compassion because we're there to help
00:55:10 people. And if you lack compassion, then how can you truly help somebody? I think that's
00:55:17 one of the things. We work with a bunch of brave and ability people. People are very
00:55:21 courageous, confident individuals. But that compassion, I think, escapes a lot of us.
00:55:27 And compassion goes along with empathy. And I think once we possess that, it's easier
00:55:33 to see the flaws and the humanity in people. And I think it just comes down. And like I
00:55:40 said, maybe this is me just being this optimistic, hopeful person, but I think it just comes
00:55:45 down to the person that you hire, the person that signs up for the job. Compassion, compassion,
00:55:54 compassion. And I think that's just lacking, even not just in police force, that's just
00:55:58 in the world, man. People don't care about each other.
00:56:01 Well, let me ask you this then, because I have really just two quick questions for you.
00:56:07 The hour goes by quick here on Mayo Cove.
00:56:09 Yeah, it does.
00:56:10 You and I have had conversations, as I had stated before in the past, we're both big
00:56:14 fans of the late civil rights leader, John Lewis, as well as Elijah Cummings, and what
00:56:22 they termed good trouble. What do you think that these two leaders would say about the
00:56:31 state of civil rights movement in America today?
00:56:36 I am encouraged by the people that do get in good trouble, especially, man, I'll tell
00:56:43 you who I'm really impressed by, the young kid, Gen Z, I think it is, that they are making
00:56:51 their voices known, they're loud, and they're letting people know that we exist. Not only
00:56:58 do we exist, but we have a say. And I love that. I love that they're being engaged and
00:57:04 getting involved and getting in good trouble. But it would just be encouraging. We need
00:57:11 it more now than ever. People are fighting, literally, for their right to exist. When
00:57:19 you talk about some of the LGBTQ people, they're fighting for their right to exist. What's
00:57:24 happening in Israel and Palestine, I'm not getting into that, but people are fighting
00:57:29 for their right to exist. And we need it more now than ever, and the people stand up for
00:57:36 what is right. And I think that they would just be calling for more, more. That's what
00:57:42 we need. We need more. I liken it to a game of tug of war. And you got both sides. And
00:57:49 in the middle is the end of democracy, the end of your rights. And the people on the
00:57:55 right are pulling. The good guys are over here just pulling, trying to... And whoever
00:58:00 falls in that hole, we just need more good guys on the back of that rope to help us continue
00:58:06 to pull and fight. And once we continue to keep fighting, we're eventually going to pull
00:58:13 them down that hole. And hopefully, that's how they don't exist anymore. Just more good
00:58:18 people just drown them out.
00:58:21 That's what we need. Look, my final question to you, Harry, you now have developed a pretty
00:58:27 huge platform, and you actually have very strong political perspectives. There are possibilities
00:58:35 that you're going to run for office in the future. I've heard that. And you know that
00:58:39 I'm contemplating a congressional run myself. I'm just waiting for my wife to give me the
00:58:45 okay on it, and then I'm ready to go. I'm going after Jerry Nadler's seat here in Manhattan.
00:58:52 And I'll tell you, I'm going to give him a run for his money. He's got a lot of issues.
00:58:58 But what about you? Possible run? Because that would be great, you and I, freshman congressman.
00:59:03 I'll tell you what, man. I love the idea of it. Why? Because I revel in the idea of public
00:59:11 service. And what better way to serve your country than to be a spokesperson, a representative
00:59:18 of the community that you live in? But right now, it's just an idea. Yeah, I'll consider
00:59:25 it. But it's a huge responsibility, too. It's a huge undertaking and a decision I'm not
00:59:31 prepared to make at the moment. But it's not out of the realm of possibility that I would
00:59:37 consider it.
00:59:40 Think about it, because then you and I could sit next to each other in the back. We could
00:59:43 be making fun of everybody and shit. And I'll at least have you to have my back, right?
00:59:48 As I sit there, like when I was in my fraternity at American University, I was known for taking
00:59:54 the metal chairs and just throwing them, right? Like at the dais with the truck in there.
01:00:00 I used to just take those those folded metal chairs, me and my buddy Seth, and we used
01:00:04 to just start winging them, right? When they would start talking stupid shit and everything,
01:00:08 because I have no patience for stupid shit. And there's so much of that going on right
01:00:13 now from the Jim Jordans all the way to the George Santos. But Harry, let me thank you,
01:00:19 my friend, for being Harry. Let me thank you for your excellence, for being you, and for
01:00:26 everything. Congrats on the book. It's a great read. I strongly recommend it. And I really
01:00:32 do truly look forward to seeing you when I get down to D.C. very soon.
01:00:36 All right, man. Can't wait, bro.
01:00:39 I will see you soon, my friend.
01:00:40 Thanks for having me, man. Talk to you soon, buddy.
01:00:43 You got it.
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