Akash Nigam, CEO and cofounder of Genies, has secured $250 million to back his vision of a "Genies Party", an ecosystem where individuals can exist as avatars or virtual beings and interact with their social networks in ways Instagram and Facebook don't make possible. Nigam sat down with Forbes reporter Zoya Hasan to discuss how he made Genies a billion-dollar startup and what's next on his path to creating what he sees as a next-gen social media platform.
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00:00 Hi everyone, I'm Zoya Hassan. We're backstage here at the Under 30 Summit with Akash Nigam,
00:07 the co-founder and CEO of Geniez, and he's also a speaker at the Summit today. Akash,
00:14 thank you so much for being here.
00:16 Thanks so much for having me.
00:17 So Akash, tell me, you're building what you see as a new social media platform that can
00:25 do things that Instagram or Facebook couldn't achieve, kind of give us a glimpse into people's
00:31 everyday lives, their coffee orders, all sorts of things. So tell me a little bit more about
00:37 your vision for this platform, Geniez, and also how you got the idea for it.
00:43 Yeah, I feel like the way that the internet is moving, there opens up a void for people
00:50 to be able to capture and socialize their inner selves. So if you're thinking about
00:53 Instagram today, the only thing that gets captured are your highlight moments. So it's
00:57 like, "Look at me with my friends at Coachella," or "Look at me at dinner with my friends,"
01:01 and so forth. But that only really defines 0.01% of who somebody is. So what you're touching
01:06 on are the little things that make up somebody's personality, and that's how you fall in love
01:09 with someone. So to give an example, I feel like you went on a bad date if the only things
01:14 that you know about that person when you left the date are where they went to school, where
01:17 did they work, all the main big facts about somebody. But the little things, like, "What
01:22 did you order at Starbucks and do you chew your straw?" "How do you eat a taco from
01:26 the left side or the right side?" "What would you do in a situation if 10 gorillas
01:30 were chasing you or something like that and you could either hunt them or you could jump
01:34 off the cliff?" All those little things add up into somebody's personality. So we feel
01:39 like through our avatar social network, which is going to be an interoperable ecosystem
01:42 of all these experiences, through gameplay and through the choices that they make through
01:46 the gameplay and the conversations that they have, our AI framework is going to be able
01:50 to define what your personality is over time and it affects the way that avatars interact
01:56 with each other. And tell me a little bit more about that gameplay.
01:59 What sort of games or experiences are going to be available in this genie's world?
02:04 Yeah, so we have our dev kit. The dev kit allows developers to be able to create these
02:08 experiences. Our interoperable tech makes it so that all these experiences work with
02:12 each other, both visually but then also informationally as well, meaning that their personalities
02:17 will influence one game to the next. The experiences that we feel like are going to be popular
02:24 in the very beginning are going to be more game-like. Anytime a new social network or
02:27 a new computing device are popularized, it always starts with games, right? So if you
02:31 think about the App Store. When the App Store first came onto market, it's not like they
02:34 were going on stage talking about, "And then there's going to be these, you know, like
02:37 Facebook and YouTube and so forth." It was like a beer-chugging app and then there was
02:42 like the Flashlight. Actually on stage, they showed the Flashlight app. They were like,
02:45 "And look what you can do." I remember that. I also remember the beer-chugging. Yeah, so
02:48 it always starts that way and people forget. It's like the classic saying, "Everything
02:53 big initially starts and feels like a toy." And so we feel like those innocent, fun games
02:59 are going to be really interesting at first. It's going to adopt the mainstream center
03:03 of culture Gen Z. And then over time, experiences are going to become more robust, more serious,
03:09 and you're going to see more social dynamics at play. And you already have people like
03:14 Justin Bieber and Offset that have created these avatars. Tell me a little bit more about
03:20 that. Like what are Justin and Offset doing with their Genies? Yeah, so what they've done
03:24 in the past is they've used their Genie to be able to moralize key life-defining moments.
03:29 So a music release or some type of big announcement. And they showcase it on TikTok and Instagram
03:34 and Snapchat and where people exist today. And that's been really cool. But I think now
03:40 that we've been afforded the resources, what we want to do is take it away from it just
03:43 being this alternative personality on social media. But we want them to use it as almost
03:48 their own virtual being within this ecosystem. And the more they use their avatar, the more
03:52 conversations they have, the more their avatar starts to learn, act, and think just like
03:57 them as well. So it's going from almost like content they can use on their social platforms
04:01 to now actually being its own dynamic, robust individual agent. And Akash, you've raised
04:07 quite a bit of money, $250 million. And Genies is a unicorn. But tell me, what was that journey
04:15 like? Not short. It was super long. I think a lot of people see like, they almost think
04:23 of like Genies being born in the last three, four years. But in truth, like we've been
04:28 kind of at it since 2014. Right. So I dropped out of school in 2014, 2015. And there were
04:33 a bunch of different iterations along the way until we got to Genies. But it's been
04:39 intense. What I'm very proud of is like two things of the company. I think one, the culture
04:44 of our company and the virtues that people adhere to. And then number two is our vision
04:48 has never unwavered. Right. Like the overarching vision of capturing and socializing people's
04:52 inner selves through avatars that will lead to more authentic connections. We've been
04:57 able to prove our thesis along the way. Each MVP, one after the next. And now we're kind
05:01 of at this position where we can really try and realize the full potential of the vision.
05:05 So it's definitely our biggest swing yet. But our prior three have gone according to
05:11 plan, knock on wood. So we'll see if this one pans out. But we feel really confident.
05:14 Yeah. So, you know, you're feeling great about this and that's awesome. But I want to know,
05:19 like what was one of the hardest decisions you had to make to get where you are today?
05:27 You know, it's not like it's been roses and flowers for the last four years straight.
05:32 There's been some really trying times. And so I feel like layoffs are always tough. So
05:36 like, you know, letting go of people that are really talented, but making sure that
05:38 the business can remain agile, laying off the key individuals that have been part of
05:43 the journey for a long time. And I think like just making like, I think like there's been
05:47 like trying decisions, but they've panned out to be for the better of the business.
05:51 Like making sure that we're not getting distracted by shiny things. Right. So there's like a
05:54 lot of opportunity on market, a lot of big brands or a lot of big people that are contacting
05:58 us wanting to do some type of partnership. And we sit there like, is that really going
06:01 to advance our overall mission? And if it's just kind of a flash in the pan moment, we
06:05 typically try to put it to the side and then we focus on our on our core vision. So I'd
06:09 say like the hardest thing has been like probably like layoffs and then just like sacrifices
06:13 that everybody has to make in general at a startup. But, you know, startup, I think like
06:16 working hard is such a commodity at this point and everybody works hard. So it's about who
06:21 can think the most critically and who can who can who can rabbit hole down like really,
06:27 really interesting paths to work on these like A+ problems or what we consider the biggest
06:32 overarching and most ambiguous problems as well.
06:34 And Genies is not your first startup, is it?
06:38 I mean, it depends like what you count as a startup. Yeah. I mean, I had a bunch of
06:41 different things that I did in high school and I had like five different apps, six different
06:45 apps that I tried in college. So they were all kind of on an individual basis. I worked
06:49 on it with like a couple of different people each time. You can almost think of them as
06:52 like projects before they became like a company. Genies is like the first company for sure.
06:57 But you always knew that you wanted to be an entrepreneur.
06:59 Yeah, I think like everybody I think like the word entrepreneur is getting well, I think
07:04 like two things about the word entrepreneur. I think like one has been romanticized to
07:07 a fault. And so like our manifesto that we've come out with is titled The Life of an Inventor
07:12 and actually goes through so many different aspects of what it takes to be, in my opinion,
07:16 a really great and effective entrepreneur in today's age where everybody thinks about
07:20 it as again, like all these like peaks, but there's a lot of values that come along with
07:24 it. But then number two, I feel like, you know, anybody that's like posting content
07:28 on TikTok is an entrepreneur. Anybody that's in Roblox creating really cool fashion is
07:32 an entrepreneur. So I feel like everybody has like entrepreneurial, there's more entrepreneurial
07:37 DNA strands in everybody today than there has been in the past. So yeah, I guess like
07:42 I've always wanted to create stuff. I'll put it at that.
07:45 Yeah. And if you could go back in time and tell your teenage self, you know, the probably
07:49 the version of you that had that first idea that you were trying to pitch out or work
07:54 on, what would you tell him from all that you've learned today?
07:58 It's a good question. It's what my therapist actually asked me. I would say, I would say
08:06 like just to, you know, enjoy the process, like enjoy, enjoy the journey. Taking more
08:13 photos, honestly, take more photos, capture as many moments as you can. And that like,
08:18 you know, like we're still like super young, right? It's like, you know, at this point,
08:22 like I guess over 30 at this point, but like it's, it's still been like a really awesome
08:27 journey just to capture as much content as possible to like reflect back on in a nostalgic
08:31 way in a really fond way.
08:32 Yeah. And Akash, what's the legacy that you want to leave behind?
08:38 The legacy I want to leave behind? It's a couple of things. I think like one with Genie's,
08:43 I want people to actually realize their, their inner self or authentic self. I feel like
08:48 at the end of the day, the world is just a crowdsourced project of people trying to make
08:51 it a better place. When you think about it, like literally every single person here, like,
08:55 and it contributed in a different way, whether it's creatively or whether it's through service
08:58 or whether it's through entertainment, like everybody contributes in that fashion. The
09:02 way I want to contribute to earth is allowing people to actually showcase their vulnerable
09:07 and their inner self. Cause I feel like the more vulnerable the world is, the more authentic
09:11 the world is, which typically leads to a longer and lasting, better connections.
09:16 Awesome. And my last question for you to the other under thirties and aspiring entrepreneurs,
09:22 especially the ones who want to like raise more money or struggling to raise money. What
09:27 is your one piece of advice?
09:29 I would say like raising money and then also hiring people are two vanity metrics that
09:33 really don't matter when it's all said and done. I think a lot of people like, you know,
09:37 it's annoying for me actually during interviews when people are talking about, I mean, you
09:41 know, obviously, but my point being is like, it comes up a lot. Like, Hey, like how much
09:44 money have you raised? Look at the people that have like backed you. And so forth. I'm
09:47 kind of like, that's just like a by-product of like what we've done and like then helping
09:53 us get to the next step. And we've been really calculated and who we've brought on. But truthfully,
09:58 like you want to build your business to be as big as possible while keeping those two
10:02 vanity metrics as low as possible. Right. If you're thinking about outcomes. So I would
10:07 say like those things don't matter as much. There's a lot of tools that are available
10:09 on the internet for you to be able to start your business without any money and money
10:13 and people that get associated with the business should be a growth factor. And you also started
10:17 Genie's with no money or zero money. Yeah. I don't know. We were struggling big time
10:22 for around like, I don't know, four years. And so like it was really scrappy, but I would
10:27 say like our best ideas and our, till this day have come from, we feel like we have zero
10:33 dollars in the bank. So that's kind of our ML. It's like a lot of the time, like we make
10:36 sure that everybody thinks of garage days and that everybody feels like we have zero
10:40 dollars in the bank. Cause when you're, when you think in that perspective, then you're
10:42 forced to think the most creative. Yeah. And that's great advice. Thank you Akash. Thanks
10:47 so much.
10:47 Thanks.
10:48 You're welcome.
10:48 [inaudible]