On the 20th anniversary of her disappearance, we take an in-depth look at the story of Charlene Downes who disappeared on 1 November 2003, when she was 14, from her home town of Blackpool.
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00:00 [Music]
00:17 On a cold evening on November 1st 2003, a 14 year old schoolgirl said goodbye to her sister on Blackpool Pier,
00:24 went off to the arcades and was never seen again.
00:28 20 years on it remains one of the biggest unsolved mysteries.
00:32 What happened to Charlene Downs?
00:36 No body was ever found, no remains uncovered,
00:40 no concrete evidence has ever told us the story of where this young girl ended up on that tragic night.
00:46 The amount of failings by all the people that were meant to actually protect Charlene,
00:56 everybody just failed.
00:58 It's not something I'll ever get over until she's found, until I've got some answers.
01:03 But then I'd love to go and literally take the law into my own hands.
01:07 If they took my daughter, I could take them.
01:10 The PC, sorry, ****, that gets in the way of protecting our children is diabolical.
01:18 I feel as though I know what's happened to Charlene Downs, but it's not something that I can verbalise or broadcast.
01:24 To grind a body through a mincer and not leave any DNA anywhere is near on impossible.
01:34 Obviously I'd like to see a resolution to this case, but that's the way the world will be, I'm not sure.
01:42 Who knows? Maybe she is out there.
01:50 [Music]
01:53 Two men were tried in May 2007, one for Downs' murder, the other for helping to dispose of her body,
02:09 but the jury failed to reach a verdict.
02:12 While lurid and sensational rumours still circulate about how Charlene's body was ground up and sold as kebab meat,
02:19 there has still been no definitive proof that this is what happened.
02:24 Then the court case happened and all this stuff about, you know, the CPS did assert that these two men that they'd arrested,
02:32 because they dropped all the nominals and concentrated on these two men, I think it was three men at the time,
02:39 and this outlandish lying about a little girl being sexually exploited and then murdered,
02:49 and a body crushed into meat to put into kebabs, and the bones crushed into tile ground, that's outlandish isn't it?
02:59 So you have a look at that.
03:01 There still haven't seen any evidence that would suggest that Vessi and Albertiki were anywhere near the end of the timeline with Charlene Downs.
03:13 Still haven't seen anything, but they still pressed ahead with the case,
03:17 and the feeling that if you're a kind of lower working class, kind of poor, white kid on the streets of Blackpool,
03:29 no one gives a toss about you.
03:31 That's the case, no one gives a toss about kids like Charlene Downs.
03:35 Charlene's disappearance quickly unearthed some very dark truths of the awful things that were being done to vulnerable young girls in Blackpool.
03:44 A police investigation revealed that she'd been one of an estimated 60 girls who were being groomed for sex in the resort.
03:53 Charlene and her friends had been hanging out in a dark and narrow back street that a number of takeaways backed onto.
04:01 Later, it transpired that a group of men who had been working in these takeaways at the time had been giving young girls,
04:10 some as young as 11, cash, cigarettes and food in return for sexual favours, an activity known as localised grooming.
04:19 This was just the tip of the iceberg.
04:23 Now, after two decades, the question still remains, will we ever know what really happened to Charlene Downs?
04:45 Charlene moved to the resort in 1999 with her mum and dad, Karen and Bob Downs, and three siblings, Emma, Rebecca and Robert.
04:53 They lived on Buchanan Street in central Blackpool, having moved from Coventry in search of a better life.
05:00 Charlene was described by those who knew her as pleasant, cheeky and always smiling, but she also had a rebellious streak.
05:10 She loved being around animals and children, and she also loved going to the theatre.
05:15 It was just a normal Saturday, really. She got up as normal, had a bath and watched her Darren Day videos, as she always did.
05:23 She was mad on Darren Day in those days.
05:26 And she'd been to see him previously at the Winter Gardens with her nana, and she'd met him.
05:31 And he'd given her an autograph, even some free tickets.
05:36 So she was watching it, and we bought her the video, which, as I say, that morning she was playing.
05:41 I do remember her, you know.
05:44 And I mean, she came to see a lot of shows, a lot of my performances.
05:50 But also, as I said to you on the phone, you know, she would sometimes, you know, she'd just come down and have a chat with me at Stage Door.
05:58 She wouldn't necessarily have seen the show that night.
06:00 She might come down and have a little chat with me before a show, or after a show.
06:06 And, yeah, there's something of, you know, sometimes in life you meet people and they just stay with you.
06:13 And I think one of the things that makes me remember her is I was worried about her.
06:21 You know, there was just this thing, she seemed to me, I think I just remember being worried for her, generally.
06:29 And I did feel she was troubled, and I always made time for her, you know.
06:35 She used to come down, and I always appreciate anyone who follows my career, or comes to Stage Door, or both.
06:41 But she was, like, there a lot, you know.
06:45 And I always made time for her.
06:47 But there was just something about Charlene that kind of, sometimes I just wanted to go, "Tell me about it, you know, are you alright? What's going on? Is everything alright?"
06:56 But you can't do that.
06:58 So the night she went missing had been a typical cold, dark November evening.
07:03 It was a Saturday night. Charlene had been in town with her older sister Rebecca, who was 16 at the time.
07:10 They'd bumped into their mum at around 6.45pm.
07:14 This was on Church Street, where Karen had been handing out leaflets for an Indian restaurant.
07:19 Rebecca went home, but Charlene stayed in town.
07:23 She said she was off to meet some friends at the arcade.
07:26 It was the last time they would speak.
07:29 And she said, "Oh, can me and Becky, we want to go to..."
07:32 So Becky was there, and they both wanted to go to McDonald's later on.
07:36 "Can we have our tea at McDonald's tonight, Mum?"
07:38 I said, "OK, fair enough."
07:40 And they wanted to go to Coral Island, to the arcades.
07:43 So I gave them some money each to go to Coral Island, and to get themselves their tea.
07:50 And then they went off out.
07:53 I just carried on as normal, did my shopping at Iceland, came back, got ready for work.
07:57 I went to work at quarter to five.
08:00 And then I was standing there handing out leaflets, and it was about quarter to seven that night.
08:06 Pitch black November. Drizzly, horrible. Horrible weather, I remember it.
08:11 She'd arranged to meet Natalie and Natasha, two friends off the bus.
08:15 Next thing I know, Charlene was waiting for them on the number six bus.
08:19 Well, the number six where I was standing, the number six like where I am here, the bus stop was just a few yards down the road.
08:24 So she waited with me, and she saw the bus arrive.
08:27 And she went down to the bus, and off the bus got Natalie and Natasha.
08:32 So she spoke to them, and they both all walked up towards me to say hello, and they both said hello to me.
08:39 I said, "Hello, girls. You all all right?"
08:41 And they said, "Yeah, yeah, we're just going down. We just want to go down to the North Pier to the arcades."
08:46 So I said, "Okay, all right." I said, "But don't be late, will you?"
08:49 She said, "No, Mum, I'll be in by about nine." I know that's quite late, but she wanted...
08:53 Her friend said they would drop her off, they would walk her back.
08:56 Fair enough, okay.
08:58 So the next thing I know, I gave... she said, "Tarra, then, Mum. I'm going."
09:02 I gave her a kiss goodbye. I said, "Goodbye, Charlene. Bye-bye, Natalie. Bye-bye."
09:06 And they walked down in the direction of the Winter Gardens, outside there, and they...
09:10 I haven't seen her, and I've never... waving me goodbye, and I've never seen her since that day.
09:16 That was the last time I ever saw her, a lot, you know, since 2003.
09:21 CCTV footage showed a girl believed to be Charlene at 9pm on the junction of Dixon Road and Talbot Road
09:32 with a woman in her 30s.
09:35 Charlene then met with another friend at around 9.30pm when they went to the Carousel Bar on North Pier
09:43 and returned to the town centre half an hour later at 10pm.
09:48 Monday morning, Charlene had not returned home, so Karen called 999 to report her daughter missing.
10:00 Hello? Hi, Talbot Police here. We've just received a 999 call and you're calling us for a problem?
10:05 Well, what it is, my daughter's been missing since Saturday night. The cops have been back by now, but she hasn't returned.
10:12 The mum of four quickly felt that Lancashire Police did not take her concern about missing Charlene seriously.
10:19 The police initially treated Charlene as a runaway.
10:23 In fact, it wasn't until three years later in 2006 that it was treated as a murder inquiry.
10:30 You mentioned police corruption. How do you feel that the police handled Charlene's disappearance?
10:37 Not very well at first, because when I first reported it, they said, oh, they took her.
10:44 They thought she was a runaway. They kept asking me where she was. Where is she then? Where is she?
10:48 I said if I knew where she was, I wouldn't need you, would I? I said to them.
10:52 They kept classing her as a runaway and it took me six weeks for the Gazette to publish it.
10:56 They kept telling the Gazette not to. It was me who had to beg the Gazette to publish it, that I wanted her in there.
11:01 And Darren Day put a tribute in as well. There was a picture of her with Darren Day as well on the Gazette.
11:07 Yeah, it took six weeks. Classed her as a runaway, they did.
11:12 I went round to her friends in a manner which was very, very abrupt.
11:20 Banging on the door and I said, look, where's my Charlene? They said, well, she did go out with us.
11:25 I know that she went to the North Pier. Then she went into the family bar and the Laughing Donkey,
11:31 which is like three venues for what they did for kids.
11:34 On the back of Joe's investigative documentary in 2019, a group was set up on Facebook
11:40 with the common goal to fight for a public inquiry into the Charlene Downs case.
11:45 Since setting up the group, Renee Crompton has begun working with a cold case unit at Leeds Beckett University
11:53 in a quest for answers and justice.
11:56 There's a number of reasons that I don't believe that Charlene has gone in a kebab or been ground up.
12:11 One of the main reasons is the absolute lack of any forensic evidence to suggest that.
12:17 And I'm not an expert, but from what I have heard from other experts,
12:22 to grind a body through a mincer and not leave any DNA anywhere is near on impossible.
12:30 The jury failed to reach a verdict. A retrial was ordered and scheduled for April 2008.
12:39 However, serious mistakes were identified in Lancashire Police's covert surveillance evidence.
12:46 Albertiki and Raveshi walked free and were also awarded substantial damages.
12:52 It was said that the brother of one of the suspects had been intimidating members of the jury.
12:58 The two men, Albertiki and Raveshi, were cleared of all charges linked to Charlene's case.
13:05 He didn't kill that kid, you know, that's my assessment of it.
13:10 Certainly, if you read the court transcripts from the time, Raveshi ran rings around the prosecutor's CPS barrister.
13:22 He ran rings around them, he did, and that's simply because he read, I mean I've seen the size of the evidence.
13:29 It's just monumental. There is so many statements, you know, and it's depressing.
13:36 It's absolutely depressing when you're reading tons and tons of statements of young girls who've been sexually abused,
13:44 whether it be down that alley or elsewhere in Blackpool.
13:49 There are loads of them, and there are loads of sorts of statements of people who've backed this up or have got something to say.
13:58 But when you see the size of the investigation, it is absolutely enormous.
14:03 A critical report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission also found serious failings in the way the evidence was handled on this case.
14:12 I mean, it is depressing, you know, the amount of child sexual exploitation that's going on in Blackpool.
14:21 I know it goes on everywhere, but it's clearly a hive in Blackpool.
14:25 Why is it so bad in Blackpool?
14:27 You could only speculate on that, but it's got to be something to do with the transient population, hasn't it?
14:31 People come and go from Blackpool.
14:34 I mean, I know there's wealthy gangsters from Liverpool and Manchester.
14:40 They go to Blackpool to go missing.
14:43 So they go half an hour up the M6 to go missing in Blackpool, because you can quite easily go missing in Blackpool.
14:50 There are hundreds of houses of multiple occupancy where a landlord like Ravesi will just take your money.
14:56 You can put your name down as D-Duck and go live there.
15:00 That's what happens in Blackpool.
15:03 But it's the bright lights and the twinkles and the seaside, isn't it?
15:06 And the arcades and that.
15:08 It kind of swallows you when you're on the seafront at night and the sounds from the arcades.
15:16 And that giant bloody parrot that overlooked the police headquarters on what's called Coral Island, the side of Coral Island.
15:27 And the atmosphere and the smell and the noise, it kind of hypnotises you, doesn't it?
15:31 I think it hypnotises the kids.
15:33 And I think it stares something inside some of the dirty old b****** that go on the prowl there.
15:40 Had the police acted with more urgency or handled the case better, would Charlene's true killers have faced justice?
15:47 Would her family have got the closure they needed to move on with their lives?
15:52 Since the collapse of the second trial, I've sort of had no more leads.
15:57 They just fob us off, "Oh, there's nothing, there's nothing, there's nothing."
16:00 I got to the point where I said, "Look, I don't want to work here anymore."
16:03 It's not because I didn't want to work here, I said, "I've had enough of this.
16:05 Phone me when you've got, let me know when you've got something suitable to tell me."
16:08 They kept bringing me in and telling me the same old thing.
16:10 I didn't want to wear that. I want them to let me know when they've got something, you know, credible.
16:15 Something that, you know, they've either found someone or they've found her or something like that.
16:19 I was just getting fobbed off with the same old rubbish, really.
16:23 Charlene's parents may have made some major mistakes in allowing Bob's friends to stay at the family home.
16:29 But Emma Kenny, who has a background in child protection, argues that this does not excuse what was being done to her by organised grooming gangs.
16:39 Just failures. Just lots of failures, in my opinion.
16:44 I mean, at the end of the day, the poor family haven't got the answers that they require.
16:48 I feel that she's not been given the justice that she deserves.
16:54 I feel like the unanswered questions are the most painful thing that anyone can experience and endure for her family.
17:01 That's the case.
17:02 And I think that when you look at how the court case was handled,
17:07 particularly when you think about how they were meant to be recording and transcribing and, you know,
17:14 bugging essentially the people that they had, that they believed were guilty of it.
17:18 And then all of that becomes problematic because it turns out they haven't done it in the right way.
17:23 Or the person who was in charge of it wasn't much more than a rookie.
17:27 And this all contributed to the case really just floundering.
17:32 That must just leave so many questions unanswered for the family.
17:38 And one of the things that I think again happened is it was to some degree underplayed just how horrendous sexual exploitation is.
17:46 And Blackpool is an area, sadly, that has been known for sexual exploitation of minors.
17:52 It has been, like where I live, you know, we've had Oldham.
17:55 I was involved with some of the girls particularly involved in that case.
17:59 So I know front line how grotesque this reality is.
18:04 And like I said, I think she became a victim of that.
18:07 The case brought to light a huge problem of child sexual exploitation in Blackpool.
18:12 According to a police report, the employees of 11 takeaway shops in a town centre had been grooming dozens of teenage girls,
18:21 exchanging cigarettes, food and alcohol for sex.
18:25 Mick Gradwell, a former detective superintendent with Lancashire Constabulary,
18:30 admitted that the police inquiry into child grooming in Blackpool, Blackburn and Burnley
18:35 had been hampered by political correctness out of fear of offending the Asian community.
18:42 They weren't taking it seriously, the authorities, to some degree.
18:46 It was seen as not politically correct to challenge potential avenues.
18:51 And also girls who were young teenagers and were apparently consensually, because that was the mindset,
18:59 well, they're going, so therefore they're culpable, as opposed to their kids.
19:04 They can't consent. They've got no idea of the ramifications on them.
19:08 There was this real mindset where, well, they're asking for it.
19:13 It was like the biggest root of that victim blame behaviour that we see play out towards women across the system, judiciary.
19:22 It's been the same tale as old as time. She's asking for it. She's a willing participant.
19:27 And unfortunately, because of that, I think that she fell foul of that belief system.
19:31 And don't get me wrong, it sparked a change, you know, it sparked a change because in authority,
19:36 there are always good people who don't believe the system works and then challenge that system accordingly.
19:42 But it's too late for somebody like Charlene. It's as simple as that.
19:47 The police report showed that Charlene was likely to have been one of around 60 girls being exploited in this way in the early 2000s.
19:56 Her parents claim they knew nothing about where she was going or what she was up to until it was sadly too late.
20:03 It was to me, it was a friend that led her astray. They were taking her down them take away, I'll call it a take away alley,
20:09 them alleys, you know, that you've heard about. It was them that were taking her down there.
20:13 And that was, I didn't, I knew nothing about that. That didn't come across to me until afterwards,
20:19 until the police contacted me and asked me about it. And I said, "Alley? What alleyway? I don't know about any alleyway."
20:24 You know, and then I was as shocked to learn as anybody else. I thought, as far as we knew, she was going to the arcades.
20:30 So I don't know. As I said, I would say it was more of her friends that led her astray, if I'm honest.
20:35 Well, so-called friends. Because they, I'm not being rude, but they did that sort of thing.
20:39 They went up them places, them alleyways. And obviously she's with them and went with them.
20:45 Obviously a lot of things have come to light about some of the grooming gangs and the child sexual exploitation in Blackpool
20:54 since Charlene's disappearance. What's it been like for you hearing about this?
21:01 Horrible. I was shocked. And I was angry and I was surprised. I didn't even know anything like that existed in Blackpool.
21:07 I didn't even know about these take-away places. Well, I knew there was take-aways, but I didn't know they were grooming girls.
21:13 Until after, this all happened, this all came to light after Charlene disappeared.
21:18 It was a big wake-up call and a big shock for me, I can tell you.
21:22 Victims were unwilling to come forward and give evidence to police at first,
21:27 but eventually a pattern emerged, revealing the terrible truth of what was really happening in a seaside resort.
21:34 It's not something that's hidden away. You walk through the place and it's there in plain sight.
21:51 It's there all around you. Just open your eyes and see it. There's loads of little kids.
21:57 Latchkey kids, you used to call them, didn't you, when I was a kid?
22:00 Just let yourself in and get yourself a butty. If they're in late, nobody cares.
22:06 So I think that's why...
22:10 It's got a magnetic force for nutters, hasn't it?
22:16 As a journalist, that's why I spent so much time in Blackpool, because there's so many different types of stories there.
22:22 There's so many different types of people from all walks of life.
22:25 They have their Glasgow weekend and a couple of hundred people end up staying behind in Blackpool.
22:30 They have their Liverpool weekend and for a while they're flooded with Scousers.
22:35 There's mayhem happens.
22:37 And if the weather's... You don't really like it when you get a hot, sunny day in Blackpool.
22:41 There's people sitting at the beach and buying ice cream.
22:43 But if it's cloudy, they still go to Blackpool.
22:46 There's loads of no good to be getting up to.
22:49 There's loads of brass houses. It's a meat factory, isn't it?
22:52 You can get what you want in Blackpool. Drugs are freely available.
22:55 There's loads of nightclubs. There's lots happening all the time.
22:58 And you're blinded by those neon lights.
23:00 The words of the Prophet are written on the subway wall and all that s***, you know?
23:06 The amount of failings by all the people that were meant to actually protect Charlene...
23:14 Everybody just failed.
23:16 And all I could see was this poor 14-year-old kid that had nobody fighting a corner.
23:21 All the people that were fighting a corner were not the right people to take on Charlene's story.
23:27 They were doing it to push their own narrative.
23:29 And the majority of them have run a racist narrative on that, and it has been run by the far right.
23:36 And I just wanted to focus solely on Charlene and her story.
23:41 And lo and behold, we're now here, five years on, and I'm kind of sat talking to you guys.
23:48 [Music]
24:04 The awful thing is, I can honestly imagine how tempting it would be for a child who's got no money to be offered free stuff.
24:12 Free food and a quick bit of cash must feel like they've won the lottery when the parents have got nothing at home.
24:19 Before they know it, they're trapped in this really dark world that's so hard to break away from.
24:24 This is one of the reasons why victims of grooming may not even feel like they're even a victim.
24:30 Because the perpetrators are so often really clever about what they're doing.
24:35 They say all the right things to make them feel like they're filling whatever gap is missing in their life.
24:41 Whether that's material things or whether it's just making them feel noticed.
24:51 That's why it may be far from obvious to a child that they're even a victim.
24:58 Charlene had been hanging out in this alleyway in the months before she disappeared.
25:03 She'd actually been here three times on a day when she went missing.
25:08 The takeaway owners and staff would come out of these doors to groom underage girls,
25:13 getting them to do disgusting things in exchange for cigarettes and cash.
25:20 So often, victims of child sexual exploitation may not feel like a victim,
25:25 and it may be far from obvious to the child that they are being abused.
25:29 Emma Kenny works closely with grooming victims in Oldham.
25:33 She explains how one girl in the care system was targeted by a grooming gang, which led to her being kidnapped.
25:40 I work and still have contact with one of the girls that was horrifically affected in Oldham.
25:47 I mean, catastrophically. And I'm one of her safe people.
25:51 So this is years and years down the line.
25:54 She went to a corner shop, Pakistani males who were the people exploiting her.
26:00 And again, people have this issue with saying that as if you are trying to be negative towards the Pakistani community.
26:07 Of course you're not. But it's the same as any typology.
26:10 If there is a type of person, when you look at the statistics, who way higher inhabits a percentage of those crimes,
26:18 you have to direct that because we can only challenge and change it when we surface it.
26:22 So it is by an enormous stretch, Pakistani males who are exploiting white girls and Sikh girls as well.
26:29 So statistically, Sikh girls are at risk as well.
26:32 So essentially, she went to a corner shop. The guy was really lovely to her. Younger guy.
26:39 She was 11. By the age of 12, that young guy has introduced her to his older brother and his uncle.
26:46 His older brother and his uncle are giving her a mobile phone.
26:50 She's never had a mobile phone before. She can't afford a mobile phone.
26:53 She's getting food given to her when she goes to the shop, cigarettes given to her, alcohol given to her.
26:58 She's 12. So these guys, they're giving her a sense of connection.
27:03 The care home, well, they're turning a blind eye to it to the point where when they start turning up in their BMW,
27:09 they're happily allowing her to go into the car.
27:14 And then she's escorted. And over time, between the age of 12 and 13, she's then used by a series of men.
27:22 And then it gets worse and worse and worse to the point where she's basically kidnapped for a couple of years.
27:28 And that's her life. Her life is rape, rape, rape, rape, rape, rape, rape.
27:33 And her belief is, well, I chose this path because I took the cigarettes.
27:37 I took the alcohol. I took the friendship. I took the compassion.
27:41 And then when they started to abuse me incrementally, I thought I was a willing participant in that.
27:47 They just believe they deserved it. So they carry on. They don't tell anybody.
27:50 And it's only when you're lucky enough to get somebody who's done the mental maths and thought,
27:56 I don't feel good about what happened. And then they start sitting with an adult who goes,
28:00 you are innocent of all these feelings that, you know, those barriers come down and they realize that they weren't that sluts
28:06 because that's the words that they'll use. You know, I get it. And I've had it in the past and I still deal with it in today.
28:12 They will use language like that. I asked for it. I deserved it. I'm a slut. I'm a slag.
28:17 And that's what those men told them. So they learned that language and become that language.
28:24 A leaked document later revealed that a number of unsavoury men had been allowed to stay at or visit the Downs family home over a 15 year period.
28:36 Disturbingly, a man called Ray Monroe had been staying with the Downs at the time Charlene went missing.
28:44 Three days after her disappearance, Bob attended a court hearing with his drinking buddy where Monroe was convicted of child sexual offences.
28:54 Monroe was jailed for four years after pleading guilty to three counts of indecent assault.
29:00 Ray Monroe was never accused of murdering Charlene.
29:07 Raymond Monroe was a dirty old man and a mate of Bob Downs and he'd been tried and convicted of child sexual offences.
29:20 And he was out on bail awaiting sentence.
29:25 Karen's in a documentary saying that she called the police on Saturday or Friday night when Charlene went missing.
29:34 And we got the 999 calls and it turns out that not only had she called, she'd made the 999 call on Monday evening.
29:42 But she didn't go through with the call, she rang the 999 operator, had to call back and say we've had a 999 call from this number, is everything okay?
29:51 And Karen just wants to, she's like obfuscating and wants to, you know, she's going to take him on, she's actually got to go out and the operator says well your daughter's 14 and she's missing and you're not going anywhere.
30:03 Did Karen and Bob know that he was a paedophile?
30:08 They said he didn't, but of course he did. Of course he did. Everybody else did, you know, and that's a question that I asked, everybody else.
30:19 Karen and Bob maintain that they didn't know that Monroe was convicted of child sexual offences.
30:31 That's too much of an ask in my view. Bob went to the case to Preston Crown Court with him, you know, as support.
30:41 How that came about, my husband's a friendly man when he's out, and how it came about, he brought his associates in from the pub, thinking they were just normal friends, oh they could stay the night, we can have a drink, that sort of thing.
30:54 I had no idea of their background at all, otherwise they would have never been in my house. We had no idea about that until afterwards, until after Ray Monroe had gone to court and we found out what terrible things he'd done.
31:08 All he told us was he'd made a drunken mistake with his girlfriend, make of that as you will. He didn't tell us anything else and he was in court on the following Monday as Charlene disappeared on the Saturday, he was in court on the third.
31:21 And that was it really, and when my husband went to court with him he was horrified, absolutely horrified to learn that he'd sexually abused children.
31:28 Bob has always insisted that he had no idea the man was a paedophile when he invited him to stay in the home.
31:37 But people are quick to judge, they're thinking all them has got long paths that I tend to mix with them kind of people.
31:50 I can go out in a pub and play pool and have a sing-song with them and karaoke, I like to mix with anybody. But then when people I drink with at the time who turn tail and literally point the finger and call me the big P, I've got a word for them but I know that you're an object to what you can publish and put on air.
32:19 I am not in any way the big P what you call me, and that's a paedophile. I am not a Nazi a pervert, I am not whatever. I want to empathise that fact.
32:34 You didn't know they were either did you? No I didn't know what they were, no. My association with them, I walk round with a blackboard and empathise, I'm a paedophile, don't come anywhere near me. But I walk round and empathise the fact.
32:53 There's something iffy about the house, they're the kind of things you can't quite put your finger on, they're difficult to verbalise, the stuff you walk into a house and you get a feel about it, it kind of transcends language.
33:05 I'm not talking about spooks and interdimensional beings or anything like that but sometimes you just get a feel for a place and it was dark and gloomy. It looked dark and gloomy and it felt dark and gloomy as well.
33:19 Bob Downs done a sponsored cycle ride for example and nobody threw in for it. It raised so little money and you wonder why. When you have sponsored events like that it's usually always the working class people who throw in more.
33:37 They raise more as opposed to affluent areas and he was getting nothing and I wondered why. I interviewed Karen in the back room and her mother and she gave me the heartbreak of clutching her favourite toy and the smell of her and things like this.
34:01 I had that kind of interview but what did mark it was Bob Downs and his mate who turned out to be a file and subsequently found out was John McNally were looming over me watching every word that I uttered and sort of holding court.
34:19 Bob was very different in those days in 2003 to the way he is now. He was a lot more, I wouldn't say aggressive but a bit more alpha male. He was less, he was less sort of, he was more confident then I think.
34:37 I would argue that there were certain failures within the home, absolutely. What matters is there is this group of people who have a very sophisticated way of grooming. A very sophisticated way of taking a child from A which is not being exploited to B being fully exploited and believing that they deserve the exploitation.
34:58 There is a very clear ingredients list of how they manage that. It's not one person doing it. It's not one individual grooming. It's a group of very sophisticated individuals all working together, all exploiting a child and children around that child to get what they want which is to molest and degrade and humiliate and destroy children.
35:21 I hate it when authorities get into the he said she said, you should, they should. It's like forget it. A child has failed. Why were they failed? These are the reasons why. How do we change that?
35:34 The PC, sorry, that gets in the way of protecting our children is diabolical and we should be ashamed when these things play out and if it's still playing out today and it is, children are still being exploited today. We have not learnt the lessons that we need to learn and that's a disgrace fundamentally as far as I'm concerned.
35:55 So 20 years on still nobody has been brought to justice for the murder or disappearance of Charlene. It remains one of the greatest mysteries of our time with nobody and no closure. The family cling on to hope that she may still be out there.
36:21 We have at the crematorium in Blackpool, we have a bench and we've also got a plaque in our memory. I know she's not there but it's somewhere for us to take flowers on her birthday and on her anniversary and you know just have some quiet reflection really as I've not got a grave. You know I have to do something and Emma takes the children there in the summer, you know just put some flowers on the grave, sit there and it might sound silly to talk to them.
36:48 We have a plaque up on the wall as well at the crematorium, at Carlton, yeah in the Rose Gardens, that's where we visit most of the time. And sometimes Stanley Park because she used to love Stanley Park, she used to love to go there and feed the ducks with her sister and her dad, she used to love it there.
37:02 Do you think it would be easier if you had a body and you actually had some closure around what happened to Charlene?
37:12 I guess all I've ever wanted is closure, I want to bring her home, either way I want her home and if I did have a body, I know this sounds awful but I could keep her ashes with me like I've got my son's ashes, I'd keep her at home close to me. I've lost her all these years and I'd want her back home, you know back with me, back with the family. That's what I would do and I'd keep some of her ashes in a locket as well. I know that might sound morbid and horrible but that's what I'd want to do.
37:39 Obviously I'd like her alive, I'd want her to be alive, I'd much prefer it if she was alive but if obviously she's not then I'd like a body and I'd like her home so we can lay her to rest in our way.
37:52 Are you feeling any sense of fresh hope? Do you feel that there is any chance that something will happen?
38:03 I always live in hope and now with the new investigator Jen on the case, Jen, sorry Jen, Jen, there will be some hope. She seems very good, she's an award winning investigator, I'm a British award winning investigator so all I can do is hope and pray really, there's nothing else I can do. I do live in the hope though that she might be able to get somewhere with it and progress the case on and find her some justice.
38:31 A vigil will take place to mark the 20 year anniversary of Charlene's disappearance. The family have organised the releasing of 20 doves in Charlene's memory. Meanwhile, protest groups are likely to join in, searching for answers and justice. Not just for Charlene but for the many other young people like her who are being failed by institutions who were there to protect them.
38:55 You were approached by Nick Griffin? Yes I was. And they've sort of given you a sense of hope and a sense of like, they've given you sort of support haven't they?
39:08 It was, yeah, well yes he did, he approached me and so did the EDL, English Defence League, I know they're a far right team, a far right group but it wasn't that that interested me, it was the fact with themselves and with Nick Griffin they gave me the hope when the police didn't and I was just grabbing it as much as I could for the hope that they gave me.
39:30 They supported me and gave me the hope, as I said the police wasn't doing a lot and I was just so pleased that somebody showed interest and was supporting me. I'm not interested in political beliefs, I'm not interested in the political side or the fact that I'm not racist, people think because of that, oh she's racist, no I'm not, I'm not racist, I have foreign friends, you know what I mean, there's no way I would do that. I did it just solely for Charlene to get support and to get the help, you know, that's all, that's the only reason.
39:59 A cold case unit at Leeds Beckett University is re-examining Charlene's disappearance with help from Ronee Crompton and a Justice for Charlene Downs campaign.
40:09 Meanwhile, a private investigator called Jen Jarvie is also re-examining the case. The police investigation remains open.
40:20 One good thing that did emerge from this case was the Awaken Project, a multi-agency task force which was set up in 2004 in the wake of the Downs investigation. It's helped to identify paedophiles and protect children from harm, especially linked to the grooming gangs identified in Blackpool.
40:40 The vast majority of us, and I mean the vast majority of us in the UK, are absolutely appalled at children being put in these positions, and not just children, you know, throughout the teens, etc, that children need an outlet to be able to find safety, and I think the education they do, the opportunities for self-help that they offer, and the just engagement with a group, both on an educational level and also with individuals who can be exploited is incredible.
41:05 I think the Awaken Project is saying, "Wake up. Just listen. This is happening. It's happening in our sleeper towns. It's happening in our cities. Your child, as much as you may think they are safe, has opportunity to be online. You don't know what's happening there. They have the opportunity to go out with their friends. You don't know what's happening there."
41:23 What is it that you need to know, both as a parent, as an educator, as an organisation, that can mean that your child is informed, and that you are informed should your child fall foul of these kind of situations? So I think that charities like that, and organisations like that, they see the gap, and they try and fill it.
41:40 What is really scary, however, is that the government isn't doing that anyway. It's so often the reliance on people setting up organisations, getting their own money, finding their own funding, always having instability within that, who have to fill that gap, and yet we see statistically the NSPCC say one in 20 people will be sexually abused by the age of 16, but there are other organisations who believe one in six.
42:08 That's a terrible indictment of our society.
42:10 While this is considered something of a positive legacy for Charlene, there are still so many ways that this could be improved on.
42:19 The current policies around protecting young people, especially in Blackpool, need to be reviewed again to make sure that everybody's doing their absolute best for children in this town, and I would like us, as part of that campaign, to look basically at implementing new policy.
42:42 Let's examine the policy that we've got now, examine what we had in 2003, re-examine it now in 2023, and let's see if there's anything that needs updating, let's see if it's the right practice model.
42:56 You know, because times change, but sometimes departments don't change with the times, they're still stuck there. So I do think there's a lot of work to be done, and I'm very concerned that there is other Charlene Downs living in Blackpool now that are being failed.
43:14 The project was nationally praised and highlighted as a positive example of how local authorities should be tackling child sexual exploitation, by linking Blackpool Council departments with the police and schools to share information with the intention to identify children at risk.
43:32 To this day, both men are blamed for Charlene's murder 20 years on. She's still associated with him putting a kebab, and I just feel there's been a large section of Charlene's case that has been almost willfully ignored.
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44:02 Further tragedy struck the Downs family in December 2021, when Charlene's younger brother, Robert Jr. died of a drug overdose.
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47:03 Do you wonder if he had taken a different path in life, if he might still be here if it hadn't been for Charlene's disappearance?
47:11 Most definitely, most definitely. He hit the drugs really hard now. I know he was never the same because he was only 12 when she went missing.
47:21 He lost his teenage years always wondering about his sister, always wanting his sister back, you know, wondering what happened to her. And as he got older, he did, I'm not making excuses, I don't justify it at all, it was wrong, but he did go and get into drugs.
47:38 He used to say, you know, it's about my sister, he said, "I've got no answers to my sister." And he used to go out looking, "Who's killed? I want to go." He wanted to go and avenge the people that did it, or he thought had did it. Yeah, so no, I think that absolutely, I think that partly ruined his life if I'm honest.
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48:17 Throughout her 14 years, Charlene was so badly failed and let down by so many people and agencies who should have been there to protect her. But she was also loved and she left a gaping hole in the lives of her family and friends.
48:33 The thing that I found most upsetting is that she will never get to grow into the adult she deserved to be. I got the feeling that she was searching for acceptance and tragically, that very basic human need was exploited by ill-meaning abusers and that sickens and saddens me.
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49:04 So, 20 years on, we still have no definitive answers as to how or why Charlene Downs disappeared. As I've worked on this story, I felt this real sense of injustice and suspicion and I've encountered so many rightly polarised opinions as to what happened.
49:26 But to end on a positive note, Charlene is remembered by those who knew her as being a deeply caring, bright and mischievous girl who had a lot more to give. She loved dancing and her mum told me how she was overjoyed when she got to meet her idol Darren Day.
49:47 It's like with the Darren Dody video, I get Becky wanted that so I let her have that and it was signed by Darren Day. She was mad on him, absolutely mad on Darren Day. Loved him, she did. There she is with Darren Day. She adored Darren Day. Yeah, she did, she loved him, put her arms around him and met him and everything. She was smiling away, she loved him.
50:08 I just wish that, I wish I'd have asked her if she was alright. Who knows? Maybe she is out there. I mean, I don't know if this is appropriate for me to say this but Charlene, if you are, get in touch with, I don't know if it's, I don't know how she would do that or if there would be like a contact.
50:33 And I'll come and meet you, you know. Maybe we could have the chat that I feel like I wish I'd have had with you 20 years ago. But what I can say is I would absolutely support you in any help that you needed. I would love you to be out there. So I'll be there for you, 100%.
51:02 What would you say if Charlene was out there?
51:07 What would I say? Oh, please, please end this nightmare for us. End this terrible, terrible torment, Charlene. We love you and we want you back. Whatever, in any way, we want you back. We just want to know that you're alright and please get in touch with us. And as I said, end our nightmare. It's gone on, it's 20 years now.
51:28 End the nightmare for your sisters and for your, and your now an auntie as well. You have nephews and you have nieces who love you very much. They've never met you but love you. So if you are out there, Charlene, please, please come back. You know what I mean? Just, or make contact of some sort to let us know that you're alive and well.
51:46 It doesn't matter why you went, it doesn't matter. I wouldn't be interested in that, only to know that you're alive and well. You know what I mean? Whatever the reason was, we won't be angry or anything. We'd be only too pleased to know that you're here and you're back, you're here and safe. Yeah.
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