Israel-Hamas Conflict | HOW The Arab World, US, Russia & Egypt view it & WHY the World View Matters
Bringing you not just the Text, but the Context too. Nimrod Goren, Senior Fellow, Israeli Affairs, Middle East Institute & President, Mitvim Institute shares his views on the role of Egypt, The Arab World, the United States and Others as Israel goes for full-throttle retribution against Hamas. Watch The WHYs and The HOWs with Pankaj Mishra.
#NimrodGoren #GazaCrisis #IsraelConflict #HumanitarianEmergency #Hamas #BorderControl #MilitaryOperations #AirStrikes #DepletedFuel #Casualties #GazaUnderAttack #IsraelDefense #MiddleEastTensions
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#NimrodGoren #GazaCrisis #IsraelConflict #HumanitarianEmergency #Hamas #BorderControl #MilitaryOperations #AirStrikes #DepletedFuel #Casualties #GazaUnderAttack #IsraelDefense #MiddleEastTensions
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NewsTranscript
00:00 It will definitely be remembered as one of the darkest days in Israel's history.
00:03 We can see the bombs.
00:05 We're commencing.
00:07 An American warship is being deployed closer to our shores.
00:14 The international community understands what Hamas did and stands very clearly against it.
00:18 There is concern about the fate of Palestinian people on the ground, including in Gaza.
00:23 Egypt is concerned about that.
00:24 It doesn't want to export or import the Palestinian problems into its territory.
00:28 Turkey, its side, has a relationship with Hamas and Erdogan is engaging with Hamas leaders,
00:33 but it also improved its relation with Israel.
00:35 Hello and welcome. You're watching One India News. My name is Pankaj Mishra.
00:43 The way things are transpiring in Israel, in its offensive, in its retribution
00:50 to the Hamas attack of Saturday, looks like all or nothing is on Israel's mind.
00:56 But war, peace and the ongoing affairs also bring with it certain signs of diplomacy,
01:05 certain signs of global geopolitical changes.
01:08 Diplomatic shifts are there to discuss the matters further
01:12 on how the world order is perceiving this offensive of Israel against Hamas.
01:17 We are joined by Nimrod Gorin, Senior Fellow, Israeli Affairs, Middle East Institute,
01:23 and President, Midwim Institute.
01:26 Nimrod, thank you so much for speaking to us and taking time out from your busy schedule.
01:31 You are joining us from Tel Aviv, and I presume that is rather quiet,
01:35 you know, in the wake of the recent massacre that Hamas has done.
01:40 Share with us first things first here.
01:42 The unity government has come up, which shows that Israel is speaking in one voice,
01:49 no matter how many critiques you might have there in the domestic policies.
01:54 But when it comes to national security, one voice that is speaking.
01:58 What else is happening as of now, as far as the ground forces,
02:02 ground level movements is concerned, and the government level is concerned?
02:05 Everybody knows someone was injured, killed, captive, serving in the military in the south.
02:09 So there is a lot of concern, and it's very personal.
02:11 Nevertheless, Israelis are facing an unprecedented security situation.
02:16 It's the biggest blow we got military wise, since the establishment of country,
02:22 by an organization that nobody expected could do what the thing that he did,
02:25 wasn't a military level, but also in that atrocity level,
02:29 the holes of the thing that we're doing.
02:31 So that definitely brings Israelis together.
02:33 It brings them together in mobilizing to support, to collect aid for soldiers, for families.
02:39 But it also has more unity on the political level, as you mentioned.
02:43 It's not a full edge unity government.
02:45 It's one centrist party joining Netanyahu to at least have things managed a bit more reasonably.
02:51 Looking ahead into a possible ground offensive, maybe next week,
02:56 and so it's not necessarily being agreed upon,
02:58 and possible spillover to other fronts, especially in Lebanon.
03:02 That is a thing that Israelis are very concerned of.
03:05 Absolutely.
03:06 I wanted to know from you the way the southern Israel was targeted by Hamas,
03:11 and from the northern part of the Israel, Lebanon is also
03:14 reportedly firing missiles into the Israeli territory.
03:20 One development that is happening, I believe,
03:22 US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has just landed in Israel.
03:26 How do you see US involvement in this matter?
03:28 US is very clear on its support to Israel these last few days.
03:33 This is, of course, a continuation to previous American policies
03:37 of supporting Israel to the very strong alliance that Israel and the US has for decades.
03:42 But it's so clear, you hear President Biden speak
03:45 and his personal affinity to Israel,
03:47 and the words that he's saying to the Israeli public are very warmly received.
03:52 So it's a sign of reassurance to the Israelis that the US is standing clearly behind us,
03:57 but it also has practical aspects.
03:59 American security is being granted to Israel these days,
04:03 and American warship is being deployed closer to our shores.
04:07 So the sense is that Israel is not alone in that,
04:09 and while it definitely has the capacity to defend itself on its own,
04:13 it's good to have American backing, plus political support from other countries.
04:16 In Europe, it's where the international community understand
04:20 what Hamas did and stands very clearly against it.
04:23 Right. Contrary to the US stand, Nimrod, the Arab world, it seems,
04:32 is in a different zone altogether.
04:34 And when it comes to gaining support of, say, the Iranian leaders,
04:40 for that matter, Hezbollah, which has now come up as one of the striking forces,
04:44 how do you perceive that is going to affect the scenario?
04:48 It's a bit of a dual thing going on,
04:52 because on one hand, there's a lot of importance attached
04:56 to the Palestinian issue within the Arab and Muslim world.
04:59 The Palestinian cause, their aspiration for nationhood, for the Palestinian state,
05:04 but what Hamas is doing is not a way to advance that.
05:07 And most of the countries in the Arab and Muslim world are not fans of Hamas,
05:11 not support Hamas way of approaching politics, security, terror.
05:16 So on one hand, there is concern about the fate of Palestinian people on the ground,
05:21 including in Gaza, who are not members of Hamas.
05:24 On the other hand, I think there is no support for Hamas,
05:26 but kind of a reluctance from actually saying it out loud.
05:31 So there's a cautious in way our world is responding.
05:34 We saw the Arab League convening, we saw a mess condemning
05:38 any injury of civilians from both sides.
05:41 So it's kind of a balanced approach.
05:43 They don't spell out Hamas specifically.
05:45 Countries like the UAE and Turkey, their leaders did engage with President Herzog
05:51 and made a call and delivered messages.
05:53 Other are keeping a lower profile.
05:55 And some are looking for ways to mediate, whether it's Qatar or Egypt,
05:59 they traditionally play a role in attempts to solve such issues,
06:02 especially when it's hostages and captives.
06:04 Talking of hostages and captive, Gaza, you know, is out of power supply.
06:11 As of now, last evening, only the power stations went dry, water, fuel,
06:15 everything has been cut off.
06:16 Israel says that it won't be restored, the supplies,
06:20 unless the captives are being released.
06:22 Any addition to that?
06:26 So the Israeli formula now being voiced by our government
06:28 is humanitarian for humanitarian.
06:30 You know, if the Syrians want, we've seen in Gaza,
06:33 Hamas wants Israel to give on the humanitarian front,
06:36 they're expected to give as well and release those captive by Hamas in Gaza.
06:41 Now, there will be a humanitarian issue that will be increasing
06:44 as the Israeli attacks on Gaza continue.
06:46 There will be more and more needs, basic needs in Gaza
06:50 that will need to be addressed.
06:52 I think even if Israel does not want to deliver those on its own,
06:55 and you know, in a way it makes sense,
06:56 because the two sides are at war at the moment,
06:59 it should enable other countries to provide the Palestinians
07:02 on the ground with the assistance they need.
07:05 So that's one thing that may happen.
07:07 Plus, maybe a humanitarian corridor and a debate about possible cooperation
07:12 with Egypt to allow some Palestinians to cross the border.
07:15 Egypt is concerned about that.
07:16 It doesn't want to export or import the Palestinian problems
07:19 into its territory, but that's another option
07:21 that could be relevant as time goes by.
07:24 How has the relations been between Egypt and Israel,
07:28 given the proximity is closer,
07:30 but historically there have been points of discontent also?
07:36 Of course, Egypt was once the biggest enemy of Israel.
07:41 Just a few weeks ago, we marked like 50 years to the Yom Kippur War in 1973,
07:46 which was the most serious war that Israel confronted against Egypt.
07:49 Six years after that war, by the way,
07:52 Israel and Egypt signed a peace treaty against all odds.
07:55 I think what that example shows that even at times of deep conflict,
07:58 there is also hope for some change in the future.
08:00 Now, Israel and Egypt have a very stable peace treaty going on for decades,
08:04 despite all kinds of hardships and ups and downs.
08:08 And Egypt is traditionally playing the role of mediator
08:10 on Israeli-Palestinian peace and on the ceasefires in Gaza,
08:16 in close coordination with the Americans.
08:17 This time, the relationship between Netanyahu and Sisi
08:21 is a good relationship, but there are some tensions.
08:24 Egypt is now making claims that it provided warnings to Israel
08:28 about the attack by Hamas, and Netanyahu disregarded those.
08:31 This is important for Israelis to know,
08:34 because there is a trust question about Netanyahu and his government.
08:38 So that's a statement that Netanyahu does not like.
08:41 On the other hand, the Egyptians do not like statements by Israeli ministers
08:45 calling on Palestinians to go from Gaza to Egypt.
08:47 So there are some tensions here, but overall,
08:50 I think the strategic relations are very stable,
08:52 and we will see Egyptians play a constructive role
08:55 in trying eventually to end this cycle of war.
08:57 Right. Nimrud, you know, three more players are critical here,
09:04 as far as the geopolitics is concerned, Russia, Turkey, and Syria.
09:10 Now, IDF, Israeli Defense Forces, have just recently given out the information
09:15 that ISIS flags were also seen when the massacre took place
09:20 in the southern part of Israel.
09:22 Now, this whole mix of, you know, we know how Syria and Turkey
09:26 were engaged in a battle by 2015, and that started the migration crisis.
09:32 Do you believe that this kind of, you know, conflict,
09:36 once again, has that propensity to give rise to such migrational issues?
09:42 First, the equivalent between Hamas and ISIS is not only by the flag,
09:47 it's something we see from the pictures,
09:49 and it's becoming very common to understand that Hamas
09:51 is not acting as a legitimate political group or military group,
09:55 working for its national interest, but rather engage in terror like ISIS.
09:58 That's a message that is now making the rounds.
10:01 Now, in Syria, I think it's important to look at the role
10:03 of the United Arab Emirates, that is now an ally of Israel
10:07 and a country that wants stability in the region,
10:10 and that conveyed messages to Assad to stay out of the war.
10:14 The threat is not from Assad, it will come from Hezbollah.
10:18 Hezbollah has some forces, perhaps, also in Syria.
10:20 So, the big question is whether Hezbollah joins or not.
10:23 Much of the American effort is geared towards preventing that from happening.
10:26 Turkey, inside, has a relationship with Hamas,
10:30 and Erdogan is engaging with Hamas leaders,
10:32 but it also improved its relation with Israel in the last few years.
10:36 So, it may be positioned in a way to help mediation efforts
10:40 for humanitarian issues.
10:41 It will not be the lead mediator because there is still a lack of trust
10:45 on Erdogan's criticism from Turkey on what Israel is doing,
10:50 but it will play a role more than it could in the last rounds
10:53 when it still did not have good relations with Israel.
10:56 So, Nimrod, my final question to you, how would history remember this?
11:00 How would it go in the history books,
11:03 given the fact that many of the Israeli citizens
11:07 are wanting to go for an eye for an eye?
11:11 Yeah, it will definitely be remembered as one of the darkest days in Israel's history.
11:17 The amount of people killed is really immense.
11:20 That's for sure. That's already there in the books.
11:23 The other chapters can be written by us, by our people,
11:28 in defining where this leads to.
11:30 And the goal, I think, of the people on the ground
11:32 is to make sure that this will lead to an understanding that conflict is bad.
11:36 It is a very basic understanding,
11:38 but we need to find a way to go out of this situation
11:41 to a path that will eventually enable Israelis and Palestinians
11:44 a better future, a secure future, and a future of peace.
11:47 But that's on the responsibility of people.
11:48 It will not happen on its own.
11:50 There are significant factors who oppose that,
11:52 and those will need to be overcome in the political system
11:55 of each country domestically.
11:56 Absolutely, Nimrod. It's a pleasure to speak to you.
12:01 Thank you so much for breaking down the role of several players,
12:06 both nationally and internationally,
12:08 in this time of crisis that Israel is going through.
12:11 Our prayers are with you, your family, with your nation, and your countrymen.
12:15 And thank you so much for speaking to One India News.
12:18 Nimrod Goren there, Senior Fellow,
12:20 Israeli Affairs, Middle East Institute, and President of Mithwim Institute.
12:24 Trust me, Nimrod, it's people like you who enlighten the future generation.
12:29 So please keep up the good work, and thank you once again.
12:32 Thank you very much. Thank you for your support.
12:34 It's a pleasure being with you.
12:36 Thank you.
12:36 (dramatic music)
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