Former Gonzaga All-American Dan Dickau analyzes the path for Gonzaga to join the Big 12
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00:00 Hey, everybody, it's Christian Pedersen, joined as always by the the man, Dan Dickow.
00:05 Dan, happy basketball season.
00:06 Thank you for joining us.
00:08 Reminder, as always, if you guys want more of this, you can search and subscribe.
00:12 Gonzaga Nation, wherever you get your podcasts,
00:14 or you can just follow along at Fan Nation Zags on social media.
00:18 Dan, we've got I know we promised the people unequivocally
00:22 that we were done talking conference realignment,
00:24 but we got to talk conference realignment.
00:25 We got to talk craziness.
00:26 So let's get straight into it.
00:29 And I want to start, though, by, you know, we'll give a little something else.
00:33 And that was media day.
00:35 The WCC and the Mountain West did a joint media day.
00:38 And I'm kind of confused and interested.
00:41 I don't think I can personally remember any other conferences
00:44 joining forces like this is the sign of things to come.
00:46 What's happening here?
00:48 Well, I'll actually tell you what it was going to be.
00:52 It was going to be the Pac-12, the WCC and the Mountain West
00:57 all together with their media day.
01:00 And then when the Pac-12 kind of had their.
01:04 I guess you could call it a blow up, like teams going in different directions,
01:09 they decided to pull back and kind of do their own thing,
01:13 which is what they've always done.
01:15 And so theirs is actually going on today.
01:20 As we record, this is October 10th, I believe.
01:23 The women's media day for basketball is today.
01:26 The men's is tomorrow.
01:28 And then for the Mountain West and the WCC, they decided to still keep theirs
01:33 combined, basically meeting at the same location,
01:36 which essentially I think is a great idea because it allows
01:39 a lot of those national media members that might not just come to a Mountain West
01:44 media day or might not just come to a WCC media day,
01:48 but would have been in a Pac-12 media day to stick around an extra day or two
01:55 and be a part of all of them.
01:57 And I think that's that last piece that I just said to be a part of all of them
02:00 is why they were going to initially do all three conferences together
02:05 is to get as many eyes on all three conferences and their programs as possible.
02:10 But that being said, that's not the case.
02:12 I do like the creativity that the WCC is showing to do this
02:17 alongside the Mountain West,
02:20 you know, with the Pac-12 kind of being gone, the Mountain West
02:23 and the WCC are fighting for essentially bragging rights of which conference
02:28 will be the best basketball conference on the West Coast.
02:31 Well, I was going to hit the Pac-12 with a stray and say,
02:33 are you sure that they weren't there and that they were just only like one table
02:36 off in the corner and nobody realized that they were going on?
02:40 But, you know, you talk about bringing maybe some more national narrative,
02:43 allowing more access, whatever gentle way you want to put this.
02:47 But it seems like sometimes the West Coast teams don't get the East Coast love
02:51 and the East Coast, you know, the CBS studios and everything are based out of New York.
02:54 And we know that a lot of people live on that time zone.
02:56 You talk and interact with and we have had some of them on the show.
02:59 So maybe you can shed a little bit more light about just what the reality is
03:03 in terms of maybe the lack of exposure or the lack of perception
03:07 about what Gonzaga and WCC basketball is really all about
03:10 and capable of amongst that national media circle.
03:13 Well, a big part of these media days is to celebrate your program,
03:19 celebrate your league, celebrate your possible successes
03:22 that are about to come up in the next four or five months with your season.
03:26 And preferably you want as many eyes on those as possible.
03:31 Now, the Pac-12,
03:34 from what I know, has had media days for about nine, ten years or so now.
03:38 I've been to five or six of those media days.
03:41 I'm not there this year, although I was invited.
03:44 I'm not at the WCC in the Mountain West Media Day,
03:48 which, as mentioned, is happening later this week,
03:51 although I was invited and I could have been at those.
03:54 You know, essentially, I think what it's.
03:58 What it does is you mentioned
04:02 most of the media powers that be are on the on the East Coast,
04:05 and so it's easy to get their member,
04:09 their their analysts and their journalists and their columnists to go to
04:15 the Big Ten Media Day, which I would imagine is either
04:19 either in New York, Indianapolis or Chicago, or the ACC,
04:23 which might be in New York or the SEC, which might be in Atlanta.
04:26 So those being large metropolitan cities, large media markets,
04:31 you know, it's easier to get to now for for a lot of those East Coast
04:36 based journalists, media members now in years past.
04:41 The WC, the the excuse me, the Pac-12 media days
04:45 been at the Pac-12 Network's headquarters in San Francisco.
04:49 That's no longer.
04:50 So they're hosting it in Vegas, which is where the WCC has done it.
04:53 At least I believe the last two, maybe three years.
04:56 So to kind of put them all together, initially, they were going to be
05:01 all together, same day, same event, same roof, et cetera.
05:05 But now the fact that they're kind of lined up, you know,
05:08 on back to back days, it allows some of those media members
05:13 that maybe we're going to travel half a way across the country
05:18 or full way across the country just to go to one league.
05:20 But the fact that you can get all three of those leagues,
05:23 it becomes enticing.
05:25 And I think it's a smart move by all three leagues
05:28 because it will bring or I would imagine it will bring more eyes on on these teams
05:33 and getting to know these programs early on in the season,
05:36 at least to the point where they can have an idea what the storylines might be.
05:40 I mean, I don't know what you can do at that point, sort of, including that.
05:44 Like, here's here's a lobster buffet at the at the Bellagio
05:48 that Mark Fewell will scoop you scoop your side dishes.
05:51 It seems like it's the perfect enticement.
05:53 We've talked a lot about Vegas becoming the central nerve
05:55 of all the basketball out here.
05:56 So hopefully this is a trend that continues to grow and grow in popularity.
06:01 But we have also got to talk about now.
06:04 It seems like maybe there is some linking again of Gonzaga and the big twelve.
06:10 You know, the BYU has left the like what's going on
06:13 on the latest on that front with everybody.
06:15 Man, I mean, we thought we both thought we put this to rest about a month ago.
06:22 This makes us content producers that we were done talking about this.
06:25 But it seems like this isn't
06:27 reheating old leftovers again.
06:30 This seems like this is renewed and new discussion.
06:32 No, I agree. I think it's something new.
06:34 I think it's something different. I think
06:37 I think it's essentially, you know.
06:40 For lack of a better term, you know,
06:45 they kind of both cool their their thought process on it,
06:48 they decided it wasn't the right timing, but then you take a step away from it.
06:52 And I'm sure Gonzaga was looking at it.
06:54 Well, shoot, all these other schools are realigning.
06:57 Maybe we need to to really see what's out there.
06:59 And if it is a possibility in the big twelve, probably,
07:02 you know, did the same thing with their due diligence is like, hey,
07:05 you got to say that we're happy for for where we're at now
07:08 because they added some tremendous schools.
07:10 But then you also got to say, you know what?
07:12 We did put a pause on it.
07:13 We got the media speculation to cool down.
07:16 Let's restart the conversation when one of us or the both of us feel it's right.
07:22 Now, this news kind of came out of nowhere yesterday.
07:26 It came on out about an hour or so before Adam Morrison and I recorded our podcast.
07:31 And we both had some some thoughts on our talking Zags podcast.
07:35 That's that will be released in its entirety very shortly.
07:38 I know some snippets are already out there on social media, but
07:41 I think at this point in time.
07:45 And I don't know this because I haven't talked to anybody
07:48 in the athletic department about this.
07:50 There has to be a little bit more truth to rumor than there was in the past,
07:56 simply because it's resurfaced again so quickly after it was said, no, no,
08:01 we're done, we're not going there.
08:03 Well, it was less reactionary, like heat of the moment.
08:06 Everyone else is moving. We need to move also.
08:08 And like you said, they were able to take a breath, really,
08:10 you know, cost benefit analysis, look through everything.
08:14 Yeah. And I in you know, in the in the discussion, Adam and I had,
08:19 you know, he likes the thought he likes the idea.
08:21 I'm still lukewarm to it.
08:23 I really still side that I think the WCC has been awesome for the league.
08:27 And I think they stay
08:29 until there is absolutely a no brainer that you have to move.
08:34 And I've said, you know, my piece about the big east
08:37 that kind of having some some different alignments across the country
08:40 because those schools have been mostly basketball centric
08:43 where the big 12 is not the case.
08:44 You know, Gonzaga would be going in as a basketball
08:48 only membership in regards to the big power programs.
08:53 I mean, yes, you're talking.
08:55 My understanding is all 14, 15 sports or whatever it is
08:58 that Gonzaga would be going.
08:59 But Gonzaga would be the only school that doesn't have football.
09:02 And so they would have to take a slightly
09:06 differentiated revenue share
09:08 within the media rights to make that happen.
09:12 Now, you and I also I'm sure we were going to get into, well,
09:16 what about buying themselves out of their allegiance
09:21 or their membership to the WCC?
09:24 I have no idea what that looks like.
09:26 I'm sure there is a buyout of some sort,
09:30 because we saw that the summer with San Diego State
09:33 talking about getting into the Pac-12 and the Mountain West was like,
09:37 well, no, if you're going to leave, you're going to pay us.
09:39 I think it was thirty five million dollars exit fee.
09:41 And they kind of tried to haggled over it.
09:43 And at the end of the day, San Diego State was like, I'm not paying that money.
09:46 And they stayed in the Mountain West.
09:47 So there's lots of different things that you say.
09:50 You say you don't know, like necessarily the intricacies
09:54 of the legality of all of it in specifics.
09:56 But let me ask you this.
09:57 Do you feel like there is roughly a number at which you would say,
10:02 yes, that's a good deal for is paying 10 million buyout is paying 20 million.
10:06 Where do you stop and balk at if you're Gonzaga saying
10:09 joining the big 12 is not worth X million of dollars to pay?
10:14 Yeah, I mean, that's where because I'm not on the inner workings,
10:16 I don't know it. I don't see it.
10:18 But it would have to be looked at in terms of, OK,
10:22 so if we have to pay this exit fee, what are we going to get?
10:24 You know, I'm here from the big 12 with their TV rights deals.
10:30 And how much of that does and how much does it cover all of our sports?
10:34 I'm asking you then just to play athletic director yourself.
10:38 And you and your gut, you know, the brand pretty darn well.
10:43 You know what really Gonzaga is capable of being on a national stage.
10:46 How much money do you feel like this deal, if it is the big 12, is worth for Gonzaga?
10:51 I mean, that's again, obviously, I work in TV as an analyst for a number of networks
10:56 and you hear the media rights numbers that are thrown out there in the Pac-12.
11:01 You know, they turned down 30 million from ESPN and asked for 50 per school.
11:07 You know, so I'm not sure it's per school, the big 12 more than the Pac-12.
11:13 I would imagine so.
11:14 But, you know, now that these bars have been set
11:19 and Gonzaga comes in late, but they come in without football.
11:22 How does that differentiate the sliding scale of what they're going to get
11:27 and then balance that against the payout
11:30 or the buyout that they would have to pay to get out of the WCC?
11:34 Then you also have to leverage the fact that, you know,
11:37 one of the reasons Gonzaga is probably enticing to the big 12
11:41 is because on that West Coast time slot.
11:45 They are the most watched program on the West Coast.
11:49 So Pacific Standard Time, the programs that draw the most
11:53 eyeballs and watching college basketball are Gonzaga, Arizona and UCLA.
11:59 I believe it goes in that particular order.
12:01 But those three are the only ones that really generate a crazy amount of interest.
12:07 So you also then have to balance like in your eyes, in your estimation.
12:14 Does the big 12 give you even more opportunity to expand your brand
12:17 maybe out of the Pacific time zone?
12:20 Is there going to be an added benefit or bonus
12:23 for some some one off games on the network?
12:27 Does that does the fact that maybe you're the driver of interest
12:32 in college basketball on the West Coast
12:34 give you the ability to maybe have a sweetened pot from the WCC?
12:38 Or is ESPN nudging you in one way or the other?
12:42 I don't know. There is so many variables
12:44 that have to be considered and looked at.
12:47 And thankfully, I know you're asking me these questions as a hypothetical,
12:51 but I'm thankful I'm not the AD with this one.
12:53 Well, then I'll throw out my hypothetical.
12:55 And I feel like you are leaning towards saying, stay in the WCC
12:59 and prove that the WC is the product.
13:01 And I'll play devil's advocate then.
13:02 And I will say.
13:03 Man, I don't see a price tag, and I know I'm playing very cavalier
13:09 with Gonzaga's money here, but I don't see a price tag
13:12 up until like, yeah, 20 to 30 million that is not worth it.
13:16 Like it. I look up and down at who is potentially the big 12 games
13:20 that you would play every year and Kansas, Texas, T.C.
13:25 Since like there's some big time basketball that if you're,
13:28 you know, you're talking about
13:31 three schools on the West Coast that are more or less competing
13:34 to dominate that spot.
13:35 And I can make the joke that Arizona is Gonzaga light
13:38 just because the amount of Gonzaga alumni coaches and everything
13:40 that are over there. So, you know, the Gonzaga really is a brand out here.
13:43 But I'm saying that like Gonzaga, Texas.
13:47 Blows those teams out of the water in terms of a matchup, Gonzaga, Kansas.
13:51 You're telling me that's not going to dwarf
13:53 anything that UCLA would be doing that same week.
13:56 It feels like long term, even though maybe there's not the in,
13:59 you know, ingrained rivalry inherent in those schools, that it would get
14:04 West Coast plus versus where I think UCLA is very L.A.
14:08 centric. Arizona is very Arizona centric in terms of why they generate those numbers.
14:12 And I think I think you got some good points there.
14:14 And I think a lot of that has to do with, you know, some of these
14:19 hypotheticals are so new, right? I mean.
14:23 It's hard to really look 18 months down the road
14:29 and see exactly what it's going to look like, because there's a lot of things
14:33 that dominoes that you never would have thought
14:36 it would had to fall in place for this to be a possibility.
14:38 Well, many of those dominoes have already fallen into place.
14:41 You know, mostly, I think, and the reason I think this has been
14:46 re-sparked with the conversations because the Pac-12,
14:50 which has historically been the best basketball league on the West Coast,
14:53 is is going to be no longer as we know it beginning next year.
14:58 So, you know, Gonzaga is going to is is in a good spot
15:03 just because they have been so good, have been dominant for so long.
15:07 I don't think they're going to get left behind in any way, shape or form,
15:11 but you got to keep doing what they're doing and that's doing their due diligence.
15:14 But then when the time's right and you have to make a decision,
15:18 you're going to have to be all in with both feet.
15:20 And, you know, I think that's something that probably the athletic department
15:25 and Coach Few learned last time.
15:27 You know, they they they flirted with the Mountain West about five years ago
15:31 and they knew they weren't all in, so they pulled out pretty quickly
15:34 and they didn't go forward with that realignment.
15:37 But, you know, all this being said.
15:40 You got to like the fact that Gonzaga is in a good position
15:44 because they're going to be wanted, whether it's a new West Coast
15:48 power league that's potentially arises
15:51 out of the ashes of the the Pac-12 and maybe the resurgence of the Mountain West
15:57 in the WCC figuring out a super conference.
16:01 You don't know, but they're going to be in high demand
16:04 because of how good they've been.
16:06 The one other question is, you know, with all of this money
16:08 that they're going to make or would make in the Big 12 arrangement,
16:12 you got to think that much of that would have to go to updating their facility.
16:18 Now, the McCarthy Athletic Center is as great a college basketball
16:21 venue as you're going to find.
16:23 But for the Big 12, it would by far be the smallest arena.
16:28 I mean, you're talking Kansas, you're talking
16:30 Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor.
16:34 Baylor, just they're in the midst of building a brand new arena right now,
16:38 which I think is about 11000 seats.
16:40 But that would be on the smaller side of arenas in the Big 12.
16:44 So I would imagine if they were to move to the Big 12,
16:47 some of those schools would put pressure on Gonzaga to be like, hey,
16:50 you know what, you're getting all this money.
16:53 We need you to upgrade these facilities.
16:55 We have a minimum that we want your basketball facility
16:58 to to be able to seat attendance wise.
17:02 Now, I don't know that for a fact, but I'm just guessing.
17:04 To me, though, all you're saying there is more income and more revenue, more.
17:08 Like, I don't think you've ever told me that Gonzaga struggles
17:11 to fill the current existing seating allotment that they have.
17:15 So I don't see how you struggle to fill.
17:18 5000 additional seats, 8000.
17:22 I mean, maybe if it's you're talking like, yeah, you can't build a 75000 seat arena.
17:26 But I am the only thing I'm hearing in the back of my brain is you're saying,
17:30 well, they'd be forced to fill more tickets is just a kaching, kaching, kaching.
17:35 It could be. But sometimes with those with those kind of
17:40 they're not outlandish demands, but with some of those
17:44 big time things that have to get done, that puts a strain on
17:49 on your athletic department, I can put a strain on your alumni and booster
17:53 base that has been so great for so long, who are now being asked
17:57 to pitch in on NIO collective things.
18:01 I mean, so there are so many multiple ways and layers to look at this.
18:04 And again, I will say it until I'm blue in the face.
18:08 I'm glad I'm not the one that's making the final decision.
18:12 As nice as it would be to say we're in a power conference, Big 12, whatnot.
18:18 The WCC has been phenomenal for Gonzaga.
18:21 And until it's an absolute no brainer, I think you stay in the WCC.
18:25 Well, so then let me ask you what's left to watch for outside of Gonzaga
18:30 in terms of the uncontrolled uncontrollables, but the things that they're not
18:33 really in the driver's seat on is there what is left to watch in terms of the Pac-12?
18:36 Are there anything that people need to be looking for?
18:39 Oh, if Oregon State does this, if Washington State does that,
18:42 like, is that really a piece of this equation anymore?
18:46 I don't think so.
18:47 I don't think neither of those two schools are going to impact Gonzaga
18:51 and their decision and what they do in any way, shape or form.
18:54 You know, I I I'm friends with both of those head coaches.
18:59 Kyle Smith at Wazuda does an amazing job.
19:02 Wayne Tinkle at Oregon State does a great job.
19:06 It's just difficult
19:07 because. They got left out because they're not in a
19:14 media market or they're not a huge donor based
19:18 flush with cash like University of Oregon because of Phil Knight.
19:23 And it sucks.
19:26 But it's unfortunately it's the nature of college athletics these days
19:29 with with the realignment in the arms race
19:33 and the drive to be a part of these power conferences.
19:36 You know, but I don't think I don't think either of those schools
19:40 and the decision that they'll be making.
19:42 And I know they're they're kind of firing back at the remaining members
19:46 of this year's Pac-12 about, you know, there's lawsuits now going on
19:51 about to try to find exactly who knew what and when and decided for this
19:54 and that the schools what happens with the name, what happens with the money
19:59 that's still out there for the network.
20:01 Any of the results of those lawsuits are going to end up
20:05 affecting any of this is what you're going to say.
20:06 You know that that I don't.
20:12 That's why I don't think Dan Dick out legal analyst,
20:14 it says basketball analyst fair enough.
20:16 Also, I mean, there's there's plenty there's plenty of ways that it could go.
20:19 And I think, you know, those two schools have every right.
20:22 And I think they should be doing what they're doing to protect their their
20:25 their current assets as well as their possible assets down the road,
20:29 but also put them in the best possible light moving forward.
20:33 Which can I say also, just stepping back one in for the pickup, those names, man,
20:38 can't just in the middle of a conversation drop.
20:40 I'm friends with this coach. I'm friends with that.
20:43 You're my ability to seem relevant to all of our viewers right now
20:47 because I'm not friends with any of these coaches, but it's so.
20:50 All right. So to summarize, nothing has exactly changed,
20:54 but it kind of feels like it's different at the same time.
20:57 Like this is a little bit more real is maybe your summary.
21:00 But you're also telling people that if something happened
21:04 in the next week or so, it would be surprising to you.
21:06 No, you know, we're recording this on a Tuesday, October 10th, mid afternoon.
21:12 You know, you're going to edit this and upload it,
21:15 you know, to our platforms very soon.
21:18 Who knows? We by the time you press push on pod being or what beam being
21:24 or whatever it is that pushes out our stuff,
21:28 the world may have changed in regards to college athletics again.
21:32 If this is going to happen, I think it happens within the next week.
21:37 OK, I think I don't think it's worth Gonzaga
21:42 allowing this to get leaked by somebody
21:45 without there being a definitive yes or definitive no fairly soon,
21:51 because I don't think it does anybody good to have this question linger
21:54 more and more and more, especially as you get in the bulk of the season.
21:58 Well, there you hear it, folks.
21:59 Dan Dicko has never had a better push for why you need to stay up to date
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22:25 Dan, thank you very much for tuning in or for joining us.
22:29 or for joining in everyone.
22:30 Thank you for tuning in.
22:31 We'll talk to you guys next time.