The Yorkshire Post's chief football writer joins Phil Harrison to discuss the exits of Xisco Munoz at Sheffield Wednesday and Mark Hughes at Bradford City and who is likely to replace them.
Could lifelong Sheffield United fan and former Blades boss Neil Warnock be the man to save the Owls' Championship status, after failing to find a win in their first 10 games of the 2023-24 season - a situation which led to Munoz's sacking on Wednesday night by chairman Dejphon Chansiri
Could lifelong Sheffield United fan and former Blades boss Neil Warnock be the man to save the Owls' Championship status, after failing to find a win in their first 10 games of the 2023-24 season - a situation which led to Munoz's sacking on Wednesday night by chairman Dejphon Chansiri
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00:00 [Music]
00:15 Hello and welcome to Football Talk podcast from the Yorkshire Post.
00:18 This time you're joined by ourself, standing host Phil Harrison
00:23 and I'm joined on the line in a short while by the Yorkshire Post's
00:28 Chief Football Writer Stuart Rayner.
00:30 The reason for this extra podcast that we're going to squeeze in this week
00:34 is that, as can happen sometimes, just hours after the Yorkshire Post
00:37 had recorded its original podcast with regular hosts Mark Singleton and Stuart
00:42 and our colleague Leon Mobshaw, there were significant changes at two of our clubs
00:46 in Sheffield Wednesday and Bradford City.
00:49 The Manthams and Mark Hughes were the first to part company
00:52 at around 8pm on Wednesday night before about half an hour later
00:55 Zisco Munoz was sacked by Sheffield Wednesday.
00:58 No doubt, obviously, after failing to secure a single win
01:01 during his 10 championship games in charge.
01:03 So in order to keep pace with everything, we've dragged Stuart away from his laptop
01:07 to talk over the developments in an extra episode.
01:10 Stuart, thanks for joining us.
01:12 If we just sort of perhaps take things chronologically in a way, if possible.
01:16 You and Leon were both at games elsewhere, so it was already a busy night
01:20 and with news like this dropping twice within the space of half an hour of each other
01:25 I guess it all added up to a frantic evening's work.
01:28 If we start with Mark Hughes, being as he was the first to go,
01:32 I get the impression there was a great number of fans seemingly wanting rid of him
01:37 but did it still come as something of a surprise for you
01:40 to see him head through the Valley Parade exit door
01:42 given it's only a few months since they got to the play-off semi-finals?
01:46 Not really, to be honest.
01:47 I think when you frame it like that, it does sound surprising
01:50 but then when you think about the fact that it's the world of football, less so.
01:56 I think there's been growing discontent amongst the Bradford fans
02:02 for the last couple of weeks.
02:04 Sort of spilled out a bit at the end of the last couple of home league games.
02:09 I mean, when you look at it in the sort of bigger picture,
02:14 I think he won one of his last eight matches
02:17 and it just felt like, you know, they did come so close to reaching a play-off final last season
02:24 but it just felt like they never really picked up that momentum again.
02:29 And I think the difficulty with Hughes, if I can put it like that,
02:35 obviously when he came in he was a very glamorous appointment
02:39 but he doesn't exactly play glamorous football, it's quite functional football.
02:43 So I think when you play football like that, it's fine if you've got the results to back it up
02:48 but as soon as you don't, then it gets a bit difficult.
02:51 We all know what expectations are like at Bradford City,
02:55 we all know the high turnover of managers they've had.
02:59 I mean, he was the first manager since, I think it was Stuart McCall's second spell,
03:02 to have consecutive pre-seasons even in charge of football.
03:06 So, yeah, I think all things considered,
03:10 I think had they not won at Newport so impressively a couple of weeks ago when they won 4-1,
03:16 I think it might even have come sooner still.
03:18 There was a feeling in the run-up to that game that things were sort of coming to a head
03:22 and that, you know, it's time that Valley Parade might be coming to an end.
03:26 So in all honesty, it wasn't the greatest joke.
03:30 It was more a case of, you know, would they ride it out until the international break?
03:36 Would they take a view after the Swindon game?
03:40 Or had those back-to-back defeats against Walsall and Trammere, as proved to be the case,
03:45 sort of caused the issue?
03:46 Yeah, I mean, he leaves with Bradford in 18th.
03:50 A lot of expectation, a lot of great expectations for the Bantams ahead of this season.
03:56 Interestingly, obviously, Harrogate and Doncaster are the two teams immediately beneath him
04:00 so it's not a great season overall for our clubs at the minute so far.
04:04 Where does this leave their playoff hopes?
04:08 I mean, is this another season that needs to be written off for Bradford?
04:12 Because, I mean, how many years are we talking about them being down there now?
04:15 Yeah, I think we're up to four or five now, aren't we?
04:20 You lose track.
04:21 But to be honest, I don't think it is actually, them acting this early.
04:26 You mentioned Harrogate and Doncaster and I was at Doncaster on Tuesday
04:31 talking to Grant McCann after the game about how clubs needed to show more patience with their managers.
04:36 And he was saying then, you know, we're 11 games into a 46-game season
04:41 and he was talking then with Doncaster on 11 points, Bradford are on 13.
04:47 He was talking about promotion for them, you know.
04:50 When all's said and done, they have given the chasing pack a head start
04:54 but, you know, they've given them, in Bradford's case, seven points.
04:59 You know, that's a good week in the Championship.
05:02 Sorry, in League Two.
05:05 It is recoverable. It's obviously not ideal.
05:08 It's obviously going to be much harder for the man who comes in,
05:11 especially as he's not going to be able to change his squad until January.
05:15 But I don't think it's right to seize it off time yet.
05:20 And, you know, this is the basis of the squad, as we alluded to earlier,
05:25 that reached the playoffs last season.
05:27 You know, it wasn't ripped up and started again last season.
05:31 We thought that stability was going to be a big strength,
05:34 but it's not proved to be the case.
05:36 But, you know, there are players there who should be performing better.
05:40 And, you know, if the new manager could come in and hit the ground running,
05:45 then, you know, I think there is the potential.
05:48 You know, you bear in mind that in League One,
05:50 you only have to finish in the top seven to make the playoffs.
05:53 You know, the gap to that is only five points.
05:57 It's not – sorry, six points.
06:00 It's not unrealistic at this stage, obviously.
06:04 It's a lot easier if you make a good start.
06:07 Yeah, definitely.
06:08 And of the potential candidates to succeed, Mark Hughes,
06:13 I mean, you know, with any job that comes up,
06:15 there's always the usual sort of runners and riders,
06:18 names that get labelled with possibly coming in and taking over.
06:22 But it is a big club.
06:26 It's often billed as one of the biggest clubs in League Two,
06:29 and it needs to get out of League Two.
06:31 It has needed to do that for a while.
06:32 In essence, I suppose you could say it's a championship club in waiting.
06:35 But they just haven't managed to get that momentum
06:39 or enough momentum in recent seasons to do that.
06:41 But it is a very good job for somebody to come into, isn't it?
06:45 Of course it is, yeah.
06:47 I mean, the potential there, if you get things right, is absolutely huge.
06:50 As we saw probably the last time we saw it really,
06:53 it was under Phil Parkinson and what he achieved,
06:56 it feels like a very long time ago.
06:59 Yeah, it comes with big pressures, big expectations,
07:02 and it's a tough job if you don't get it right.
07:05 But if you do, there's the potential there to snowball.
07:07 And I think that's what's so frustrating,
07:10 that it wasn't exactly like they had a fantastic finish to it
07:14 to the last regular league campaign, but they sort of did it off.
07:18 And it felt like they had a bit of momentum,
07:20 and they just weren't able to carry that through.
07:23 You know, the crowds, I was at the Leyton Orient game
07:26 where they booked their place in the play-off.
07:28 Fantastic crowd that day.
07:31 And again, for the first leg, they always get big crowds there.
07:34 You know, you feel that if you can get the ball rolling,
07:38 you're working with a big budget as well, it should be doable.
07:41 But they've kind of tried every possible route, really,
07:45 the last couple of years.
07:47 They've gone for experienced managers with track records at that level,
07:52 like Gary Bojo and Derek Adams.
07:55 They've gone for Mark Hughes with a track record at a higher level still.
08:00 They've gone for sort of Junghoff and Cummings
08:02 when they went for Connor Sellers and Mark Truman as a combination.
08:09 And before that, very briefly, when they gave Martin Drury a taste of it
08:16 and before him, David Hopkins.
08:19 So they've kind of looked at all avenues and not found the right man.
08:24 But I say it'll be a very attractive job to managers
08:31 who are used to operating at that level
08:33 because they'll get crowds like they've never had before.
08:36 They'll get a generous budget, I think, by the standards of that division.
08:40 And yeah, there will be plenty of people who want that job.
08:45 Yeah, definitely.
08:46 Definitely be interesting to see over the coming days.
08:49 Just quickly, would you expect anyone before the weekend?
08:52 Presumably not.
08:53 No, I mean, Kevin MacDonald is very much like yourself today, Phil.
08:58 He's in caretaking control until the end of the week.
09:01 So he's going to be in charge of the game against Swindon.
09:07 And then I suppose that just buys them a bit more time
09:10 to have a think about things.
09:12 Of course, Bradford do have a game in the international break
09:15 as well as a trophy game they're playing at Wimbledon.
09:17 But nevertheless, there's a little bit of breathing space and thinking space
09:22 because as I said, I do think they'll have quite a few applications to sit through.
09:26 Yeah, yeah, definitely.
09:28 Moving on to Sheffield Wednesday, slightly different situation.
09:31 The big thing, obviously, with the Owls this season
09:33 being that they haven't actually won the championship yet after 10 games.
09:39 I mean, probably the writing was on the wall for quite some time with Munos, I guess.
09:44 No real surprise that he went on Wednesday night, was it?
09:49 No, again, even more, well, much more so than Mark Hughes,
09:54 it felt like a matter of time.
09:56 I mean, it felt like, I remember going to, let's think,
09:59 I think the game against Leeds and you felt then,
10:03 you know, he really needed a good performance.
10:07 That, again, was the last game before an international break.
10:10 He felt he really needed a good performance then to save his job.
10:14 And he got one in a very defensive sense.
10:17 They got a good 0-0 draw with a really disciplined performance.
10:20 And that probably bought him a bit of time.
10:23 But yeah, the fact that they haven't won a single game under his tenure,
10:27 I mean, you know, the closest they came was winning a penalty shootout against Stockpile.
10:31 Let's not forget, they're in Bradford's division in League Two.
10:34 You know, even getting through to the next round of the League Cup was on the back of the draw.
10:40 So it was always a question of, you know, how much time would he get?
10:47 What could he do with that time?
10:49 But it never really felt like, you saw Rod Glimpses,
10:53 I mentioned that Leeds performance was good in a purely defensive point of view.
10:58 I saw them play against Preston where they played quite well
11:02 for about half a game.
11:05 And it looked like they had a clear way of playing.
11:08 And then that sort of quickly evaporated.
11:10 Same against Middlesbrough.
11:13 Had a good half hour in that game.
11:16 But then as soon as they conceded, things sort of went to pieces.
11:19 And it just never felt like there was a clear identity to what Munoz wanted to do.
11:25 It's obviously a very difficult situation for him,
11:28 on the back of a popular manager leaving and making,
11:34 I think he brought in 13 signings, a lot of bad signings in there.
11:38 If you make the mistake of bringing in too many players who didn't know English football
11:43 and sidelining too many of the players he already had,
11:47 who did have that sort of experience.
11:50 But it was always going to be a job that was going to take time.
11:55 You just felt that with everything else going on at the club as well,
11:59 two points from the opening 10 games just wasn't going to buy him any more time.
12:04 I mean to be honest, for a few weeks out, I was kind of looking at it and thinking,
12:09 well it's written in the stars that Darren Moore will come to Hillsborough
12:14 with his Huddersfield Town team, win there and finish off Munoz.
12:17 But as it turns out, he was sacked three days before that.
12:22 Yeah, he's going to be denied that. Not that Darren Moore would take any pleasure from anything like that,
12:27 but he's going to be denied that opportunity.
12:30 Dejan van Transieri obviously made the appointment.
12:35 He's not himself too popular with a lot of our fans it seems at the moment.
12:40 No doubt it didn't help himself with his comments last Friday about the fact that
12:46 it's the fans fault for the high ticket prices etc.
12:51 He's not putting any more money in.
12:53 Probably just another example, and there have been a few over the years I think,
12:57 where he's spat his dummy out about certain things.
13:00 Absolutely stating the bleeding obvious as the phrase goes,
13:05 but it is absolutely crucial that as much as he got this one wrong,
13:09 he has to get this next appointment right or the Owls will surely find themselves back in League 1 won't they?
13:14 Yes, well yes and that's another bit.
13:17 You feel that for Sheffield Wednesday to progress, Dejan van Transieri has to leave the club.
13:25 But the only way he's going to leave the club is if somebody comes in with the sort of price he's willing to take for the club.
13:32 And if they get relegated to League 1, the amount he can ask immediately drops quite significantly.
13:41 So just from that point of view, they need to stay.
13:45 They've just had two years slogging around League 1, worked so hard, been through so much
13:51 through the two play-off campaigns before they finally got there.
13:54 It would be almost criminal to waste it.
13:57 And you know, Munoz has been out of his depth in this job and really struggled.
14:05 You have to say the fingerprints for what's gone wrong this season do lie with Transieri.
14:11 With that initial split with Darren Moore, with his choice of coach and everything that sort of flowed from there.
14:19 So yeah, from a personal point of view, from a club point of view, it's really important that they do make a good, solid appointment.
14:27 And it might have to be a brave one because lots and lots of people, and I would be amongst them,
14:33 are looking at that situation and thinking, well, actually the logical appointment is public enemy number one.
14:40 It's Dale Warthog.
14:42 That was going to be my next point.
14:45 Yeah, the old Sheffield Wednesday baiter himself.
14:48 Yeah, the Red Ader of football management as he's proven recently.
14:52 The Red Ader of football management.
14:54 And you know, in the sort of aborted section of our podcast that you referred to earlier,
15:00 Leon and I were discussing it, and it just feels as though that club needs somebody to come in
15:05 and just put smiles on faces.
15:07 You know, there's obviously a big job to do to turn them around, but it feels to me like going down the totally Pulitz approach,
15:14 which can certainly work, but sort of grinding things out and keeping them up that way is not what they need.
15:21 Things are so miserable at Hillsborough.
15:24 They need somebody to come in and have a laugh and a joke and be the butter, no doubt, pantomime boos and all this sort of thing.
15:35 And of course, you know, we all know Dale Warthog is such a contrarial sod that he'd probably look forward to it.
15:40 Oh, definitely.
15:41 Exactly. And take it on.
15:43 So everything does seem to be pointing that way.
15:47 But, you know, you can understand.
15:49 Let's put it this way.
15:50 It's a brave decision for a chairman who's already unpopular to make.
15:55 I suppose the other side of it is, would it in all honesty make Chancery much less popular?
16:02 He's not got much to lose in the popularity stakes right now.
16:07 And I do think that would be the good decision.
16:12 So we'll see if that's the way it goes.
16:15 And of course, the last two appointments that he's had in Yorkshire, sorry,
16:21 Neil Warnock in Rotherham and Huddersfield, have both proved to be the right decision by those owners.
16:27 So, you know, he has a good track record at this.
16:29 He doesn't have a perfect record at this, but he has a very good track record at this.
16:32 And, you know, he did say when he left Huddersfield that, you know,
16:36 despite only announcing his retirement a few months ago and then coming out of it very quickly,
16:40 he did say on leaving Huddersfield, I think, didn't he, that he just fancied a crack somewhere else,
16:45 at least one more place.
16:46 So, I mean, what better place to do it than the arch rivals of his boyhood club?
16:52 But it remains to be seen, I guess.
16:54 I mean, do you think it would be the right appointment?
16:58 Yes, I do. I really do.
17:00 I mean, it's got the potential to backfire spectacularly, but I think it's more likely to work.
17:06 You know, I would put all of what little money I have on Neil Warnock managing again this season.
17:14 And if he doesn't go to Sheffield Wednesday, chances are he will end up at a club that is currently
17:19 in a relegation battle with Sheffield Wednesday and they will survive it.
17:23 So there's even the sort of extra element of stopping someone else getting in.
17:28 Yeah, as I say, you know, we all know his history, but we all know what he's like as well.
17:36 And he will just get on with the job and there'll be a sort of, I imagine when he first comes in,
17:42 there'll be an attitude of, I know you lot don't like me, but look, you need me.
17:47 I think in all honesty, I think for a lot of Sheffield Wednesday fans, I don't know,
17:53 I don't want to speak too much for them, especially on a topic like this, but there's probably,
17:59 I think he's one of those people that there's probably a bit of sneaking admiration for him,
18:04 much as they would love to absolutely hate me.
18:08 I think he's like one of those players that you only like them when they're playing for your team,
18:14 when they're playing for anyone else's you absolutely hate.
18:17 Probably one of those into the same category as a manager.
18:21 I think needs must and yeah, Sheffield Wednesday certainly need a really good appointment to replace Moogah.
18:33 YorkshirePost.co.uk