Talking 2015 Ford Mustang! Wide Open Throttle Ep. 90
Angus MacKenzie and Ed Loh meet up with Raj Nair (Fords Head of Product)
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00:00 [Music]
00:25 Hello and welcome to a very special
00:30 edition of Wide Open Throttle. Joining me
00:32 today Ed Lowe, Editor-in-Chief of
00:34 Motor Trend but also a bunch of guys
00:36 from Ford. Raj Nair who heads Ford's
00:39 global product development. Joel
00:42 Pierskowski who is the exterior design
00:45 director for the new Mustang and Joe
00:48 Hinrichs who runs Ford of the Americas.
00:51 So guys no surprises what we're here to
00:53 talk about, you know, Motor Trends history,
00:55 your history, because we were there the
00:58 first time around 50 years ago, the
01:00 launch of the Mustang and here we are 50
01:02 years later, half a century later, to talk
01:04 about the latest and greatest Mustang
01:06 and Raj must have been quite an
01:08 achievement getting this one through the
01:10 system. Yeah, when you do a Mustang at
01:13 Ford there's always a lot of visibility,
01:15 a lot of pressure and we've really been
01:17 looking forward to this day. We've
01:19 been working really hard, the team's been
01:20 working really hard and it's almost hard
01:22 to believe that we're here. What would be
01:24 the, I mean, how do you approach doing a
01:27 car that is so iconic like the Mustang?
01:30 Where do you start? How do you avoid
01:32 becoming trapped by history?
01:35 Now that is the hard part, we've got 50
01:37 years of great heritage in the Mustang
01:39 and we've also got a lot of ideas of how
01:42 to, you know, bring new technology to the
01:44 vehicle and improve the attributes but
01:47 probably that aspect of modernizing the
01:50 look of the vehicle yet maintaining the
01:52 heritage of 50 years of Mustang so when
01:55 it rolls down the road it's
01:56 unmistakably a Mustang and when you look
01:59 at the vehicle I think, you know, Joel
02:01 and Murray Callum and the rest of the
02:04 design team have just done a masterful
02:06 job in finding that balance. It's clearly
02:09 a Mustang but you look at it, it's
02:11 clearly a very modern vehicle and when
02:13 you put it in the showroom of the rest
02:14 of the Ford vehicles it's clearly got
02:16 the rest of the Ford DNA. Which one
02:19 of you guys would you say got in, got
02:21 involved first with this generation?
02:23 Like if you go back into the development
02:25 like who, who, you have design, you're
02:28 based on the engineering side, you're in
02:29 charge of kind of everything else. Who
02:31 got the, who got the call like, alright
02:34 we're doing it, it's green light. Well,
02:37 so product development has all of that,
02:40 the product planning, the studio, the
02:42 engineering, the powertrains and you know
02:45 we start our planning pretty early so
02:46 planning for the program probably started
02:48 in 2009. At the time Joe and I were both
02:52 actually in Asia Pacific. Joel, you were?
02:55 I came on board in 2010, this is, we were
02:57 really getting underway in the studio. As
02:59 far as the planning of doing a Mustang.
03:02 Right. You know probably Joel came in
03:04 2010, we were back end of 2010. You were
03:10 back in 2010, I came back in of last year.
03:12 But because it was a global program we
03:14 were all touching it in different ways.
03:16 Right. A little bit different this time.
03:18 Right, and the fact that it was going to
03:19 be a global program from the beginning.
03:21 And I came into the engineering role when
03:22 I came back to the US, I was doing the
03:24 engineering side before heading all of
03:26 product development a year and a half ago.
03:29 So, it's a big team right, you know people
03:31 always, particularly when things are a
03:33 success right, everybody wants to be the
03:34 father of that particular project. So, but
03:38 the way it really works is it really is a
03:40 team effort. You know doing a new vehicle
03:42 is probably the biggest team sport ever.
03:44 And whether it's the engineers, whether
03:46 it's the designers, the product planners,
03:48 manufacturing, purchasing, sales and
03:52 marketing, I mean it takes really a full
03:55 team to deliver that. And a sign of when a
03:59 great car comes out is there's a great
04:01 team behind it.
04:02 Which I can say from a business
04:03 perspective, the way it starts is we start
04:06 with what does our portfolio want to be
04:07 in the future, what's the refresh rates,
04:10 what new products are we going to bring
04:11 to bear, what can we afford, what's the
04:13 profitability. And then Raj's team along
04:16 with the business units get together and
04:18 decide how we're going to allocate that
04:20 capital and those resources over the next
04:22 many years. The Mustang Cadence would
04:25 fit into that process. And then once we
04:27 would get the go ahead of we're going to
04:29 fit it into this process, this timeline,
04:31 this amount of money, this everything,
04:32 then the team is put together as Raj
04:34 suggested and we go. So, the genesis is
04:37 really more of a business planning and
04:39 product portfolio discussion and then
04:41 it's all down to the execution. But, I
04:43 mean the Mustang is now an absolutely
04:46 unique product in the Ford lineup. It's
04:48 the only rear-wheel drive car platform
04:50 you have. How much did the fact that it
04:54 was a Mustang lead you, inform you on
04:59 having to do a rear-drive platform which
05:01 otherwise possibly wouldn't make economic
05:03 sense? Well, the product development team
05:05 was pretty clear that in order to keep
05:07 Mustang technologically advanced and
05:10 take it to the next generation and be
05:12 able to sell it around the world, we
05:13 needed to go to a new platform. And a lot
05:16 of attributes are tied to that. And that
05:18 has a bill associated with it and we
05:20 needed to sign up for that. But, that was
05:22 an easy decision because Mustang is a
05:24 core part of our product portfolio in
05:26 North America. It's an icon as you know
05:28 in our business. And we will always keep
05:32 Mustang, you know, forefront in our
05:34 portfolio. That wasn't the hard decision.
05:36 The harder decision was really around
05:39 okay, how far do we go on the global
05:41 scale? And what does that mean to the
05:43 product? Because there were a lot of
05:45 rumors and theories going around that
05:48 because we were going to offer it to be
05:50 sold in more markets around the world,
05:52 that somehow we would change the DNA or
05:55 what it meant to be a Mustang. And we
05:57 were all very clear, and Raj and his team
06:00 were very clear, that that wasn't where
06:02 we were going to start from. Because the
06:05 reason why so many people around the
06:06 world love Mustang, the reason why so
06:08 many people know about Mustang, the
06:09 reason why we do research in markets
06:11 around the world and the top ten
06:12 vehicles they associate with Ford, our
06:14 Mustang is always in that list even
06:15 though we don't sell it in those markets,
06:17 is because of what it really is. It's an
06:19 American pony car and it needs to be true
06:22 to that DNA even if we're going to sell
06:24 it around the world because that's what
06:25 they know about Mustang. So Joel, as
06:28 exterior design chief for Mustang, I mean
06:31 how many sleepless nights did you have
06:33 thinking about this car? I mean how far
06:35 did you take, you know, how far can you
06:37 take away from what Mustang was but
06:39 still keep it a Mustang? Great, great
06:41 question Angus. You know what we really
06:44 tried to do to modernize the car was to
06:46 re-architect, to re-proportion the car to
06:49 give it a much more exotic sports car
06:52 like flavor. And in doing so we, you know,
06:56 we had some good discussions with the
06:58 senior management team, Raj and Joe and
07:01 Mark, and it was really a group effort to
07:04 you know roll up our sleeves and get
07:06 down to the core essence of what Mustang
07:09 needs to be for the future. And in doing
07:12 so we made some pretty critical
07:13 decisions even late in the program Raj
07:15 that were I think really very important
07:19 to the final product and that's, you know,
07:22 with that spirit we got a great new
07:25 product that's coming out that has a
07:27 world-class proportion and even really
07:29 goes back to the heritage of what
07:31 Mustang is as far as its classic front
07:33 engine, rear drive, fastback profile. But
07:36 the proportions changed quite
07:37 substantially and I don't think the
07:39 photos that we've all seen really do it
07:42 justice because the car seems much less,
07:45 the Mustang, the original 64 and a half
07:48 car of course was based on the Falcon and
07:50 had some Falcon hardpoint architectures.
07:52 This car's lower, much lower. Much lower.
07:54 And dramatically changed. It's much more
07:57 like a sports car than a sporty coupe
07:59 offer. You had to re-engineer the floor
08:00 pan and the front suspension pickup
08:03 points, right? I mean... It's a full new
08:05 platform. When does that conversation
08:07 start? I mean, is that... Well, that's
08:11 probably one of the late decisions
08:12 Joel's referring to. And you know we had
08:15 certain hardpoints in size of vehicle in
08:17 mind and we had a certain view of the
08:21 balance we wanted in modernizing the
08:23 vehicle as well as staying true to the
08:25 heritage. But as we walked down that path
08:28 proportions are so key in any vehicle
08:31 that you do. And it's not just the
08:33 individual language. If it's language on
08:35 the wrong proportions it's just not going
08:37 to look right. How does that go though?
08:39 So do you get to a point in a clay or in
08:42 a sketch and you go, "You know, it's just
08:44 not going to work like this. We got to go
08:47 here. Well, we can't do that unless the
08:50 cars..." And then you... Alright, who's
08:51 going to go ask Raj whether we can make
08:53 this happen? Is that kind of how it goes?
08:54 And they've got to go to you and say,
08:55 "Really?" Yeah, and in that type of
08:58 discussion is actually something that is
09:01 why we still work in clay. Because
09:03 that's something you can only pick up in
09:05 a full-size clay. And walking around the
09:07 vehicle and getting a very intuitive
09:10 sense of the scale of the vehicle. And
09:12 that can't be done in as much as CGI is
09:16 improved. It can't be done in renderings.
09:18 It can't be done in quarter scales. So
09:20 full-size clays. And when we were having
09:23 that discussion, we did free up the
09:26 constraints for the team and allow them
09:28 to go wider. Allow them to really push
09:30 the vehicle down. And when we saw that, we
09:33 said, "Okay, that's what we need to do."
09:36 And now that's a big decision, right?
09:38 Because that means we go back into some
09:40 of the engineering we've already started
09:42 and redo it to the proportions that are
09:44 really going to work. What are the
09:45 chances we could see where you got to and
09:47 then had to ask that question? Well, when
09:50 we do the 75th anniversary book, probably
09:53 some of those photos will show up. But
09:56 that's why we do, very frequently
09:58 actually, senior management reviews. So
10:01 that we, the executive team, can have a
10:03 sense for those proportions. Because
10:05 we're not designers. But Raj and his team
10:08 will take us through, "Okay, here's where
10:09 we are. And what do you think?" Because
10:12 we'll have to make business decisions or
10:14 judgment decisions on resources or
10:16 funding or whatever. And your eyes will
10:18 tell you, even if you're not a designer,
10:20 that those proportions don't work or that
10:22 doesn't feel just right. And so that's
10:24 where we'll have the conversation of
10:26 whatever we want. Then the team will
10:27 propose what they want to do. And then we
10:30 can make decisions on the business side
10:31 of where we go from there.
10:33 Raj, I'm going to put you on the spot here.
10:35 How do you convince a guy who's not a
10:39 designer to see it the way you see it?
10:42 To make that case that, "Man, we have to
10:44 go this shot." And do you make sure to
10:47 cozy up to the guys who think, "He gets
10:49 it. He gets it." You know what I mean?
10:51 You've got to pick your battles for a lot
10:53 of this stuff. How do you do it? Because
10:54 part of your job is not just drawing the
10:56 thing. It's actually selling it, right?
10:58 Of course. Absolutely. But the best tool
11:00 to do that is to do it in three dimensions,
11:02 as we've just mentioned. And to have that
11:04 physical clay property out in the
11:06 courtyard next to other models or current
11:09 vehicles is the best way to really convey
11:13 the idea and the message that we're
11:14 really trying to get across.
11:16 I can't get over how dramatic this is.
11:18 Millimeters make a difference in design.
11:20 You can shift a panel a few millimeters.
11:22 The wheelbase is the same, but you've
11:24 lowered the hood by 1.3 inches. You've
11:26 lowered the rear deck by 2.8 inches and
11:29 the roofline by 1.5 inches. I mean,
11:31 they're massive changes. And the car's
11:33 gone out 1.6 inches wider. It's
11:36 completely different.
11:37 It is completely different. It's an all-new
11:39 platform and a great job by the design
11:42 and engineering team that we've done all
11:44 that, lowered the vehicle. We've also
11:46 lowered the belt lines, so the visibility,
11:47 one of the traditional advantages that
11:49 Mustang has had over its competition, is
11:51 uncompromised. And actually, interior
11:53 space and headroom has increased. So
11:56 that's the interaction between design
11:59 engineers and our design team in the
12:03 studio. That has to happen simultaneously
12:06 to really get that optimal solution.
12:08 But you've got to tell us, because
12:09 everybody's going to want to know, what
12:10 does lowering the roof by that much and
12:12 widening the track, what does that do for
12:14 driving, for the drive, for the
12:16 performance, for the handling?
12:17 Well, it's not just lowering the extra
12:20 metal, right? But lowering all those
12:22 components gets that CG lower. Obviously,
12:24 widening the track, and particularly an
12:26 independent rear suspension, really
12:28 improves the grip at the rear. So much so
12:30 that we found we're really going to have
12:32 to do the double ball joint front
12:35 suspension to improve the performance of
12:37 the front. And one of the great things
12:41 about the new vehicle is the balance and
12:44 the nimbleness and the, you know, what we
12:46 would call, you know, the width of that
12:48 performance envelope. Today's vehicle, you
12:51 know, particularly the Boss, has got a
12:53 great performance envelope, but you've
12:55 got to be on your game, right? You've got
12:57 to have pretty narrow areas of steering
12:59 angle, pretty narrow area of throttle
13:02 input, and how you're feeding it out, and
13:04 it'll be a great car to drive. Get out of
13:06 that area, and you know, you're going to
13:08 be on your game to catch it. This
13:10 vehicle has got a wider area and more
13:13 overall capability, and so it's easier to
13:16 drive fast, it's easier to recover, it's
13:20 easier, particularly with the suspension,
13:22 to really, you know, push it on the track,
13:24 ride the curves a little bit more. So just
13:26 those aspects. When we talk about we want
13:28 to flatter the novice, but reward the
13:30 expert, that's what this car is really
13:32 about. And so you're going to get out of
13:33 this car thinking you're a better driver
13:34 than you actually are. Can you give us any
13:36 numbers, any deltas? We're not ready to
13:39 talk numbers as you know, Ed, but you
13:41 know, you're going to like it. I know you,
13:44 you're going to like it. This car also,
13:46 though, interestingly enough, there's a
13:48 phrase that would send a chill of fear
13:51 into any enthusiast's heart, "four-cylinder
13:53 Mustang". It's not just any four-cylinder,
13:56 but it's a 2.3 litre direct injection
13:59 turbocharged EcoBoost four-cylinder
14:01 that's, you know, we're not talking
14:03 specific horsepower numbers, but it'll be
14:05 higher than 305 horsepower. And when you
14:08 drive that vehicle, you know, particularly
14:10 with our EcoBoost engines, the torque
14:12 curve is so wide, and the balance of the
14:15 vehicle with that engine in it, I think
14:19 it's going to be the surprise. I think
14:20 people are really going to love driving
14:21 the 2.3 EcoBoost, not to mention the fuel
14:24 efficiency. You know, we're projecting
14:26 it's going to be best-in-class fuel
14:27 efficiency. So I always remind people, you
14:29 know, 305 horsepower, my very first new
14:32 car I ever bought was a 1988 Mustang GT,
14:35 and I was so proud of that five-litre V8
14:37 at 225 horsepower. And now the entry 3.7
14:43 litre V6 is 300 horsepower. So we're
14:46 talking, you know, pretty significant
14:47 capability even at the entry vehicle. And
14:50 to get 305 horsepower plus class-leading
14:53 fuel economy, plus the type of torque
14:55 curve and balance you get in the vehicle,
14:57 I think it's going to be a winner.
14:59 Joe, do you think American buyers are
15:01 ready for the idea of a four-cylinder
15:03 Mustang? I think they are. Again,
15:05 certainly when it's turbocharged, because
15:08 of the balance between fuel economy and
15:10 the torque curve that Raj talked about,
15:13 and we're seeing it on other products.
15:14 Now we're 40% of our F-150s are V6
15:18 EcoBoost engines. Who would have thought
15:20 that years ago we were 100% V8s? So the
15:23 American consumer has, one, gotten used
15:25 to the fact that displacement isn't what
15:27 it used to be, V8, V6, or I4. And second
15:30 of all, fuel economy matters to everybody
15:32 when they're buying a vehicle today, and
15:34 the technology is so advanced that the
15:37 driving dynamics are what matter, and the
15:39 fuel economy. And as we said, with the
15:42 2.3-liter EcoBoost engine in the Mustang,
15:46 we believe you're going to get the best
15:47 of both. So it's going to be interesting,
15:49 isn't it? The V6 is your entry-level
15:50 model, then comes the four-cylinder, and
15:53 then the V8. That's right. But when you
15:55 look at the horsepower numbers and fuel
15:57 efficiency, you're getting a lot with
15:58 that EcoBoost. I'm just going to, this is
16:01 a real curveball. Did you guys engineer
16:04 any room in the front bumper for like a
16:06 giant front-mount intercooler for that
16:08 turbocharged four-cylinder? Is there any
16:10 space to maybe put something in there to
16:12 - look at these guys, they're like
16:13 Sphinxes. Whenever we do a new platform,
16:17 we're always thinking ahead, so we're
16:19 always going to provide some protection
16:21 for some future enhancements. Man.
16:25 When the previous-gen car came out, the
16:30 2005, I was fairly critical of the fact
16:33 that it had a live rear axle. I'm pleased
16:35 to see that with this car, Mustang finally
16:37 joins the 21st century with independent
16:41 rear end. Well, I think we had a pretty
16:43 good solid rear axle car, and I think even
16:46 you guys, you know, were pretty pleased
16:48 with how the boss reacted with a solid
16:49 rear axle. But at the same time, as Joe
16:51 mentioned, pretty early we felt to take it
16:55 to the next level, we needed to go
16:56 independent rear suspension. So we
16:57 designed the platform from the beginning
16:59 with an independent rear suspension,
17:01 integral link, really happy with the
17:04 geometry, really happy with the spring
17:06 rates and damper rates and bushing rates
17:08 that we've been able to achieve. Not just
17:10 in delivering, you know, the handling, but
17:13 now the combination of the ride, the NVH
17:16 and the handling we can achieve with
17:17 that suspension system. So, really
17:20 pleased with it, so much so that as I
17:22 said, it's got so much capability, it
17:24 caused us to re-look at the front end
17:26 and go to the double ball joint front
17:28 end, which gets us that virtual joint,
17:29 allows us to package a lot bigger brake
17:31 system. And, you know, it's the most
17:34 capable platform we've ever had for the
17:37 Mustang. And having the independent rear
17:39 suspension, really, did it allow you to
17:42 go global with the car? Do you feel like
17:44 you could really only sell a live axle
17:47 to Americans and Europeans wouldn't
17:49 take that and China maybe wouldn't take
17:52 it or Asia Pacific? I think even if the
17:55 program had been just a North American
17:57 program, we would have gotten
17:58 independent rear suspension. Clearly, it
18:00 helps the global proposition and we were
18:01 thinking very early on that we were
18:03 going to go global with it, but I don't
18:05 think that was the driver. Even if it had
18:07 been the traditional North American
18:08 market, we would have gone independent
18:10 rear suspension. And off of that, you guys
18:12 did the launch, six cities, Barcelona,
18:15 Sydney, Shanghai, Dearborn, New York and
18:18 Los Angeles. Very different cities, five
18:21 different time zones. Is there any
18:24 similarity in the Mustang buyer?
18:27 When you look at the Mustang buyer in
18:29 the Americas, is it the same guy who's
18:33 going to buy the turbo four-cylinder in
18:35 the US as it is in Shanghai or in
18:38 Barcelona or somewhere in Europe? Or is
18:40 it a different price point? Are you
18:43 positioning the car differently? How
18:45 would you? Well, I would answer it this
18:46 way from our research says the buyers'
18:49 desires and lifestyles are similar. You
18:53 may have a GT buyer that wants the 5.0 in
18:56 North America. That same profile
19:00 individual may want the 2.0 EcoBoost
19:03 in Germany, let's say. But the general
19:08 feelings about Mustang, you know, American
19:10 sports car, pony car, you know, the sense
19:14 of freedom, the soul of the Ford brand,
19:16 these things resonate anywhere you are,
19:18 whether you're in Australia. The data
19:20 shows it whether you're in China or UK
19:23 or wherever. So that aspect will be
19:25 similar and their wants are similar. The
19:27 driving dynamics, the capabilities, all
19:29 the technology in the vehicle, the
19:31 infotainment system, the shaker stereo
19:33 system, all those are similar. Yeah, the
19:35 powertrain displacement and the powertrain
19:37 may be a little bit different, but the
19:39 customers want similar things. They love
19:41 style. They love the retro connection of
19:45 Mustang, but they want it to be new and
19:47 modern and we think the team's done a
19:48 great job of connecting that. It's amazing
19:51 with the internet today and all the
19:53 information out there, as I said before,
19:55 you know, so many customers around the
19:58 world have access to the same
20:00 information and they want the best and
20:02 they want what other people can have
20:03 other places and the great thing about
20:05 our One Ford plan with all the global
20:07 platforms and the ability to sell around
20:09 the world is we can now give those
20:11 products, the best products we have
20:12 around the world to our customers,
20:14 whether it's Fiesta here in North
20:16 America, Fiesta ST for example, or
20:18 whether it's Mustang to Germany.
20:20 Speaking of like those variants like
20:22 Fiesta ST, does One Ford, I know it's
20:25 a sort of a, it's an overarching product
20:28 concept, does it apply to the future
20:30 Mustang variants? Like will all markets
20:34 get whatever comes after GT or GT, or
20:38 would there be like regional specific
20:42 high-performance versions like a
20:44 turbocharged 4-cylinder that you'd only
20:46 see in China or? No, I mean our
20:49 performance strategy, you know, executed
20:52 by our SVT team or our RS team, which is
20:54 actually the same team just under
20:55 different monikers, is a global strategy
20:58 and levels of performance we have
21:00 expectations for, for putting an ST
21:03 nameplate on or putting an RS nameplate
21:05 on or putting a, you know, a Shelby GT500
21:09 nameplate on and so that's consistent.
21:12 Certainly the type of markets that
21:15 those vehicles cater to can be
21:17 different and so the offering of the
21:20 Mustang and all the markets it'll be in,
21:22 if we were to do a high-performance
21:24 version of it, would certainly be the
21:27 vast majority of those but perhaps not
21:29 every single one of those and that's
21:30 true for whether it's the Fiesta ST or
21:32 the Focus ST or the Raptor or any of
21:35 those type of vehicles, but the key thing
21:37 is it's a global strategy and the team
21:40 that does it is actually a global team
21:42 and down to the engineering attributes
21:44 we expect is a global standard.
21:47 Okay, well who would have thought 50
21:49 years ago when Ford unveiled the pony
21:51 car for the very first time, a group of
21:54 journalists and engineers and car guys
21:56 would be sitting around talking about a
21:57 new Mustang. That's all we've got time for
22:00 on Wide Open Throttle this week. Thanks
22:02 for joining us. See you next week.
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