On this episode of Wide Open Throttle
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00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:22 Welcome to a very special episode of "Wide Open Throttle."
00:25 As you can see, we are a man down this week.
00:27 We had some guys out for testing.
00:28 But that's OK, because we have a very special guest here
00:31 with us, Tobias Mors, who is the chief executive of Mercedes
00:36 AMG GmbH.
00:38 Now, Tobias, you are, as of October 1, in the position.
00:43 What have you done since then?
00:46 What major product announcement do you have for us?
00:49 What is going on with you?
00:51 Yeah, you have to know that it's just two weeks now.
00:54 So I did two days of good experience
00:59 together with all the journalists up in Willow Springs,
01:02 because MBU has added a big AMG event there.
01:05 It was a presentation of the Black Series
01:07 and the Big Willow track.
01:08 And we had a CLA 45.
01:10 We had an E63 wagon sedan.
01:14 And we had a 507 C63 up there.
01:16 And you had five Black Series.
01:18 We had five Black Series up there on the Big Willow.
01:21 I think it was a good experience.
01:23 That's what I did.
01:24 I did a little bit before then.
01:26 But what I did the 19 years before at AMG,
01:29 that's the most important thing.
01:31 We'll get to that.
01:33 Well, that brings up a great point.
01:34 So everyone knows who you are.
01:36 Former head of development for AMG, and actually
01:39 the guy responsible for the first CLK--
01:41 or the first Black Series, the CLK, which is--
01:44 As we were talking about before, the first man
01:47 to head AMG has come from within.
01:50 That has been there and worked his way all the way up.
01:52 So congratulations.
01:55 Back to Willow Springs.
01:56 Was that your first time there?
01:58 No, we had a presentation for the CLK Black Series
02:01 in the streets of Willow, I think, 2007.
02:05 How do you find that track?
02:07 Do you like it?
02:08 A Big Willow is amazing.
02:10 Driving the Black Series up there, it's so fast.
02:12 It's a little bit bumpy, the track.
02:16 And you need a car which has a good body control,
02:20 very stable car, so the Black Series
02:22 fits perfect to that track.
02:24 So you were there.
02:24 I saw you.
02:25 And you drove it, and you got a ride with someone.
02:28 Yeah, I got a ride.
02:30 It was funny to see.
02:31 First, we were doing the lead follows.
02:33 The journalists were in the Black Series,
02:35 and Maxi, the instructor, was in the regular SLS.
02:37 And it was incredible to see from that perspective.
02:40 I know Maxi could blow us away in the regular car,
02:42 but just seeing the rear end squirm around and slide around.
02:45 Granted, he had traction off and was driving with one hand,
02:48 because he was telling us how to not crash.
02:52 But keeping up, yeah, the Black Series was incredible.
02:54 And then, yeah, you were nice enough to give me a lap
02:56 and really show me-- I saw what I can do with the car,
02:59 and then you showed me what the car can do.
03:01 Look at this guy.
03:03 No, but I think what he's trying to say
03:05 is it's good that a performance brand is
03:07 someone who can drive.
03:08 [ENGINE REVVING]
03:10 Yes, yeah.
03:11 As the head.
03:12 It's pretty--
03:13 Rare.
03:13 It's pretty rare.
03:14 I saw him walk the walk before.
03:15 I've seen him talk and he talks.
03:19 You are now installed as the chief executive.
03:22 What can we look forward to other than six-wheeled--
03:27 G-wagons.
03:27 G-wagons.
03:28 Yes, coming to America in all dealerships.
03:32 We said yesterday the mid-mounted V12 AMG Sprinter
03:35 convertible, right?
03:37 There's a-- I think there's no need for something like that.
03:43 But there is the white spot in our portfolio.
03:47 You agreed to it.
03:49 But the thing is, what we set up is a perfect strategy
03:53 for the future.
03:54 I think next year is very exciting for us.
03:57 They're coming up with a lot of new products.
03:59 So 2013 was a very exciting year for us,
04:03 because now we recently presented the S63 in Kidsville.
04:07 We met each other there.
04:10 The weather was bad.
04:10 I know.
04:11 All-wheel drive is fine.
04:12 For all-wheel drive, it was a perfect approach there.
04:15 But the thing is, next year is very important for us.
04:19 And the years after that is--
04:21 Well, not just next year.
04:22 I mean, according to my Mercedes colleagues,
04:25 you guys have-- including CLA and S-Class Mercedes-Benz,
04:30 the US is going to launch 30 new products in the next seven
04:33 years.
04:34 How many of those will have-- can you
04:36 say will have AMG variants?
04:38 Every single one.
04:40 No, no, no, no.
04:41 But a lot of them.
04:43 A lot of them.
04:43 I'm not able to tell you the whole strategy of AMG now.
04:46 But I think the strategy is interesting
04:49 and will bring up a lot of new products.
04:50 And we promised our fifth anniversary
04:54 we will have a product lineup of more than 30 cars at AMG.
04:58 And the production volume worldwide
05:00 will be more than 30,000 cars a year.
05:03 So looking to that strategy, we're really
05:08 got them on track now.
05:09 So can you talk about just a little bit of history?
05:12 Can you talk about-- so AMG, you guys,
05:15 with the exception of the GLK and the B-Class,
05:19 you guys kind of do an AMG version of basically
05:21 every Mercedes passenger car, more or less.
05:26 How did that strategy come about?
05:27 Because you look at BMW.
05:29 For a long time, they had two, the M3, M5.
05:33 Audi, they're always changing their game plan.
05:36 They're starting to do more S and RS stuff.
05:38 But how did AMG decide every Mercedes passenger car
05:43 gets a performance version?
05:45 It depends a little bit on the segment.
05:46 With the B-Class, there's no sense for AMG.
05:49 And with the old compact versions,
05:51 with what we have with an A-Class and B-Class,
05:54 style-wise and everything-wise, it was a perfect fit to AMG.
05:58 So with the new compact class, which is coming up
06:02 and still in growth, and new GLAs coming up and everything,
06:06 it fits better to AMG.
06:07 I think it's a CLA 45.
06:09 It's a nice car.
06:10 It's fit perfect to AMG brand core,
06:13 which is driving performance.
06:16 I think AMG is a company by its own.
06:19 So every car we have on the market
06:22 must fit in our brand approach.
06:23 That's for sure.
06:24 But it must be a business case for us.
06:26 It's a business-driven company.
06:28 So it's 1,200 people business now in the company.
06:32 And the board of Mercedes gives us the freedom,
06:36 if there is a business behind that, then do it.
06:39 And if there is a segment where we can sell the cars,
06:41 and this S63, we see the demand coming out of the markets.
06:47 And it's more than we expected, honestly.
06:50 Really?
06:51 Yeah.
06:52 So then which would you say, of all the products
06:56 you've launched recently, is sort of the riskiest?
07:01 CLA 45, is that-- or do you feel like there
07:05 is a market for that?
07:06 When you just mentioned S63, you know
07:08 that you have a segment there.
07:09 Is there anything there where you say, hmm, this one is--
07:13 Like the G65.
07:16 That's a good example for that, yeah.
07:18 G65 was a discussion, OK, is there a need for that car?
07:21 Looking a little bit back in the past and the discussion
07:28 what we had and what we know now, no, it's not a risk.
07:33 Right, but you guys, I remember talking
07:35 to your predecessor, Ola Kallinius,
07:37 he said that he was shocked at the demand for the G65.
07:42 He said, he told me that he figured, or you figured,
07:45 or AMG figured you'd sell 500 in 10 years or something.
07:49 And it was--
07:50 Less than that.
07:51 And it was 406 months and going up.
07:55 That's why there's a six-wheel truck.
07:58 That's a G63 from standard.
08:01 I know there's a company in Germany which
08:03 put a V12 in that car, but I think, yeah, that was a--
08:08 it's a good example for a project.
08:10 There was a certain demand out of the markets,
08:13 special from Middle East, for sure.
08:16 And then we didn't know how to handle it
08:18 because it's expensive to put a V12 in the car.
08:22 It doesn't fit.
08:23 And so, OK, it was close to zero as a business case.
08:30 But when you get all the lifecycle,
08:33 you expect it within six months, then the business case
08:37 is better than you expected.
08:38 So this is a risk level.
08:41 Yeah, and it shows--
08:42 I actually talked to a couple of high-ranking people
08:45 at, say, Volkswagen Group, and they
08:47 said that part of the decision to go forward with their Bentley
08:50 and Lamborghini SUVs was they were looking
08:52 at the success of the G65.
08:55 And they're like, well, people are buying $230,000 SUVs
08:59 like hotcakes, essentially.
09:00 Well, I'm glad you brought up the competition, Johnny.
09:02 I do have some questions, many questions.
09:06 One of them is a lot of your competitors, maybe at VISAC,
09:11 maybe out of Italy, out of England,
09:13 are doing high-performance vehicles that
09:15 incorporate hybrid drivetrains-- McLaren P1, LaFerrari,
09:20 obviously the 918 Spyder.
09:22 Where is AMG in that discussion?
09:25 We're talking about hypercars.
09:27 I think hypercars is not the level we want to achieve.
09:31 So this is-- you mentioned LaFerrari, 918, and the P1,
09:36 and everything.
09:37 This is a level-- I think, brand-wise, maybe AMG fits in
09:43 that.
09:44 But that's a discussion about-- maybe AMG
09:47 is, from brand point of view, it's not in that level till now.
09:51 And hypercars, it's a little bit the same story
09:56 than we had in the past-- all hypercars coming up
09:58 on the same time.
10:01 And I think it's hard to get out of business case
10:03 with that special cars out there.
10:05 And I think that's not the way we want to go.
10:07 But the question, what is with electric-driven cars?
10:10 Yeah, we have an SLS electric drive, which is-- I don't know.
10:14 Maybe you drove the car?
10:16 I drove an early prototype in Valencia, Spain.
10:19 Yeah, what you are able to do with real, individual electric
10:23 motors, so the behavior of the car,
10:25 you can change everything in terms of driving dynamics.
10:27 And especially, you can drift with the car if you want to.
10:30 Also, the one I drove-- I don't know
10:31 if it's still in the production windows--
10:32 it did a four-wheel burnout.
10:33 And I thought the whole thing caught on fire,
10:36 because you floor it, and all of a sudden, you see smoke coming
10:38 up, and it was the wheels.
10:40 So there's no customers asking for more,
10:45 I don't know, environmentally responsible, 500-horsepower
10:49 sports cars?
10:49 Yeah, for sure, because we have to take care
10:51 about our customers and fuel efficiency.
10:54 And if fuel efficiency is a big part of our business strategy,
10:57 it's a big part of our brand core,
10:59 we want to be the benchmark in our segments
11:02 in terms of fuel efficiency regarding the fleet in Europe
11:05 and in the US as well.
11:06 And I think we're in a good way there, because what we achieved,
11:10 the fuel efficiency and the consumption, what
11:12 we have in an S63, for example, it's
11:15 less than the predecessor.
11:17 And a CLA45 is rated in Europe with 6.9 liters per 100
11:23 kilometers for 360 horsepower.
11:25 So I think that's the way we are moving to the future.
11:30 Well, speaking of other types of competition, so as you know,
11:35 every year we do our Best Driver's Car competition.
11:37 And for the second year in a row,
11:39 a black series has finished in second place behind the 911,
11:45 Porsche 911.
11:47 There might be two of us at this table that voted for the SLS,
11:49 but it's--
11:50 Where are the other guys?
11:53 It's a democracy.
11:54 I mean, look, and to be very fair to the black series,
11:56 like the C63 black series was sort of a crowd--
12:00 like fan favorite, maybe.
12:01 Like everyone loved it.
12:03 It's just the 911 is--
12:05 it's bred from the beginning to be the 911.
12:07 It's not a C250 that you're putting parts on.
12:11 And I'm bringing all this up, because I
12:13 know how you feel about it, but you have some kind of competitor
12:16 in the works, a small sports car we keep seeing pictures of
12:19 and hearing rumors about.
12:21 So any-- you kept saying 2014 is going to be exciting.
12:24 Anything to mention about that?
12:26 Anything to mention about that, Tobias?
12:30 There are good rumors around the world, yeah.
12:32 That's true.
12:33 And not everything is wrong.
12:36 Ah, I like that.
12:38 OK.
12:38 So that's my statement for that.
12:40 So let's wait and see.
12:41 And as I mentioned before--
12:43 He learns fast.
12:44 Two weeks on the job.
12:45 That's a great answer.
12:46 It's a change.
12:47 Remember before, he's like, oh, yeah, that's great.
12:49 It's beautiful.
12:50 All right, well, OK.
12:51 Well, back to the SLS Black Series.
12:53 I went on the original launch of SLS.
12:56 And to be honest, I thought the car was very raw, very
12:59 emotional, very hard to drive, particularly around Maserati
13:03 Suez, Laguna Seca.
13:04 I spun it.
13:05 Yeah, I love the Black Series.
13:07 And it's weird, because it has less torque.
13:11 But if--
13:11 Higher revs.
13:12 Higher revs.
13:13 But it drives smaller.
13:15 It's not as sort of ungainly.
13:20 And how did you do that?
13:21 I mean, how did the team--
13:22 I mean, first of all, did the team recognize--
13:25 was there feedback from drivers similar to ours,
13:28 where it was sort of like the original SLS is just
13:31 sort of crazy, kind of hairy to drive?
13:33 Or--
13:34 No, the SLS GT, for example, you saw Maxi in the GT
13:39 driving Big Willow.
13:41 So I drove the GT there as well.
13:43 So the GT went pretty good.
13:46 But the target always with the SLS Black Series
13:49 is do two things--
13:51 have a technology statement and have a car which fits
13:55 in our brain, mindset, so race car, street legal.
14:00 And I think the Black Series feels like a race car.
14:03 It's street legal.
14:04 There's a comfort in the car as well.
14:06 So if you're driving on standard roads,
14:08 I think you drove the car a lot.
14:10 So--
14:11 It's just weird that the race car, the street legal race car
14:13 to me is more drivable, more comfortable, more
14:16 confidence-inspiring than the regular GT.
14:19 That's all.
14:19 That was sort of--
14:22 maybe that's a personal issue.
14:24 I don't know.
14:24 Yeah, I'm strange.
14:26 No, but I think everyone on staff kind of agrees with that.
14:29 I mean, it was--
14:30 we all-- look, I mean, the Gullwing's cool
14:32 because it's a Gullwing.
14:34 It's an amazing engine.
14:35 It's one of the-- that engine's going to go down.
14:37 Angus always says, if there's an engine Hall of Fame,
14:40 the 6.2 liter, the M156 goes in there.
14:43 It sounds amazing.
14:45 And then you amp that up.
14:46 But the car is more drivable.
14:48 You can put the power down in corners
14:50 better in the Black Series than you
14:52 can in the standard Gullwing.
14:54 Yeah, we change a lot there.
14:56 The Black Series has an electronic controlled
14:58 limited slip.
15:00 So that works together with all the ESP functionality
15:02 in the car.
15:03 If you switch off the ESP functionality,
15:05 you go in ESP off.
15:07 So we have different calibration on that limited slip diff.
15:11 We reduce the weight, 70 kilogram,
15:15 in comparison to the standard SLS.
15:16 We use carbon fiber torque tube as a structural approach
15:19 in the car.
15:20 We have a carbon fiber hood in the car.
15:24 And the track is wider.
15:26 We have different tires set up in the car.
15:28 We have a different suspension set up.
15:30 We use still the various damping, what we have in the GT.
15:33 So in different spring rates, different damping set up
15:37 as well.
15:38 And we control the--
15:41 this is one of the, I think, biggest issue in the car.
15:44 We control the drive chain.
15:46 Because if you have a torque tube,
15:48 you have an engine, a gearbox, this
15:51 is something which-- there are masses in a car
15:54 you have to handle.
15:56 And we have something in that car
15:58 which control the movement of the drive chain
16:00 according to the movement of the body.
16:02 It's such a good improvement, though.
16:06 A lot of us fell in love with that black series.
16:09 They're catered to two very different people.
16:11 The standard SLS is the GT that you want to get
16:13 and blast across the country.
16:15 Yeah, like when we went out to Arizona.
16:17 Yeah, yeah, exactly.
16:18 Yeah, SLS is a great support car for Truck of the Year.
16:20 Yeah.
16:21 [LAUGHTER]
16:24 So one thing I'm very curious about
16:26 is how you do your development at AMG.
16:30 What do you benchmark in terms of other competitive vehicles?
16:33 What are you looking at currently?
16:34 Who is doing it in the performance space?
16:37 In the-- who's doing it good, who's doing it bad,
16:41 would you say?
16:42 And what do you have?
16:43 What do you have right now that you
16:45 are from the competitors?
16:46 That's like a seven part question.
16:48 I know.
16:48 It's a good one, though.
16:49 Honestly, you have to have every competitive car in our segment.
16:54 And we have that.
16:55 And we own them by ourself, because otherwise you
16:59 are not able to do all the analysis you want to have.
17:02 But the thing is, we own the car--
17:03 every segment where AMG is in with our cars,
17:06 it's a very competitive situation.
17:08 So it's always-- a good example for that
17:12 is the C63 came on the market with 115-something
17:16 in Hockenheim, small track.
17:19 It went-- it will go out of the market with 113.6
17:23 on the same track in the same car.
17:26 So this shows the improvement what we have to do.
17:28 The BMW does the same with the M3.
17:30 So that's always a competitive situation.
17:32 And you have to always be aware about who
17:34 is your main competitor.
17:35 And this is easy for us, because the competitive set
17:39 in every segment is not that big.
17:42 But actually, it's getting bigger now.
17:44 So we see Jaguar is doing--
17:46 so BMW, Audi, this Porsche, no doubt about.
17:51 But Jaguar is moving a little bit faster in that segment
17:56 than we expected.
17:57 They're doing a good job.
17:58 They started something in the performance level years ago.
18:02 It was not a big success for these guys.
18:04 Then it was a little bit calm around that.
18:06 And now they're coming back.
18:08 Cadillac is a company we have to care about, especially in the US.
18:12 I think in Europe, not that big.
18:15 But in the US, we have to care about.
18:17 And we look quite interested to everything
18:20 what happened in the market.
18:21 So back to the rumored sports car you guys are working on.
18:27 You can't talk about that car.
18:28 But can you talk about the competitive set
18:30 that obviously you have or you are benchmarking?
18:33 Like what sort of cars are you looking at?
18:37 Which should we?
18:40 Well, you obviously have a 991, right?
18:42 Do you have a--
18:43 Two, if I'm honest.
18:44 Do you have a-- looking to get a GT3 or a turbo
18:48 when they're available as well?
18:50 Maybe.
18:51 Maybe.
18:51 I know you've told me that you have a 458 Italia.
18:55 No, we don't have.
18:56 No, no, no, no.
18:57 We had a 599 when we developed the SLS because
19:01 of that application of the drivetrain.
19:04 But yeah, when there would be the chance
19:08 to have a new sports car, if there would be one, maybe,
19:14 then we have to be aware about all the competitive sets.
19:17 And this is, for example, the hero in that segment
19:22 is the 911, for sure.
19:24 We have an Audi R8 available there.
19:27 F-Type?
19:28 F-Type, I think it's a different segment.
19:30 So it's more fits to an SL.
19:33 SR63 and F-Type.
19:35 F-Type is not in that high positioning of pricing,
19:38 but this is the better brand fit.
19:40 I'll ask for Mike.
19:41 He's too shy.
19:41 How about GTR?
19:42 Have you had one in?
19:43 Have you done analysis on--
19:46 GTR.
19:46 GTR, we own one.
19:49 Because GTR is benchmark how you can handle the drivetrain.
19:55 So this is--
19:56 For application.
19:57 Yeah.
19:57 The drivetrain application of the car is amazing.
20:01 Yeah, we had an Italian engineer tell us
20:03 that they couldn't figure out how it works.
20:05 A car that heavy goes that fast around the Nurburgring.
20:08 It's not a special thing in terms
20:11 of kinematic and the standard what you have.
20:13 It's hot springs and everything, but they
20:15 did nothing unexpected on kinematic side,
20:19 on suspension setup.
20:22 It's all about the drivetrain.
20:24 So in other words, how much power
20:25 you can put to the half shafts without the car exploding?
20:30 Half shaft broke or so.
20:34 OK, we have a lot of American fans.
20:37 Do you benchmark?
20:38 Do you look at-- do you even bother with any
20:40 of our American performance cars?
20:42 I mean, we just--
20:43 that Z28 Camaro just ran the ring in like 737.
20:47 I mean, does that even register, do you even care?
20:49 Yeah, we-- no, we always look at what happened on,
20:54 what happened in the US.
20:55 Because US is a different situation sometimes.
20:57 Because they're coming up with Camaros,
20:59 they're coming up with CTSVs, and whatever,
21:01 CTS generation, the new one is very ambitious.
21:04 And no, we take care about that.
21:06 Because we have to be aware of what happened
21:08 with all the competitors.
21:09 And I know that they are looking at our business,
21:12 and they know that we are successful.
21:14 It's not easy to copy that.
21:16 And it's a long-term strategy, what
21:18 you have to set behind that.
21:19 And maybe it takes another five years or so for the one
21:23 and/or the other competitor.
21:25 But they will be there sooner or later.
21:27 First time you and I met was with your predecessor,
21:29 Ola Klinius, who now is in charge of sales and marketing
21:33 for Mercedes-Benz.
21:36 How is your tenure at AMG, how do you
21:38 see it differing from what he did?
21:40 Or is it going to differ?
21:42 Since he's more of a numbers guy,
21:45 and you're more of an engineer.
21:47 In that position, you have to care about numbers as well.
21:50 If you're responsible for the whole engineering at AMG,
21:53 you have to care about development numbers.
21:55 Because the budget is anyway, it's limited.
21:58 And if you overrule always the budget,
22:00 they don't like you in the board.
22:02 So that happens always.
22:04 So I think the technical approach
22:06 will be more deeper in the future.
22:07 So it's a sign that I'm now responsible
22:10 for the whole company.
22:11 So the whole team is dedicated.
22:14 So the spirit of what is in AMG is always dedicated to that.
22:18 What I told before, what I mentioned before,
22:20 is we're always in a competitive situation.
22:23 So this is the spirit in Affalterbach.
22:26 You've been there, you felt it, I think.
22:28 And this is our spirit.
22:29 And I'm a car guy, I think so.
22:33 And I push everybody to get at that level
22:38 we want to achieve.
22:40 OK, last question.
22:42 I said something very controversial
22:44 on a previous episode.
22:45 I said, Americans only think they love cars.
22:51 Americans actually only like cars.
22:53 Germans, Germans love cars.
22:57 Is there anybody that loves cars more than the people
23:00 from your country?
23:03 Is that a true statement?
23:06 I don't think so.
23:07 I don't think so.
23:08 I think we have-- it's too easy to do Americans, Germans.
23:14 I think in US, there are people, they're so car fans.
23:21 You don't find these group of people in Germany.
23:24 I think the group of people in America
23:27 who are really car aficionados, who like cars, who
23:30 take cars on the track, is bigger than in Europe.
23:34 That's what I feel.
23:37 We have dedicated car guys in Japan, for example.
23:41 So that's a big group there as well.
23:45 The Japanese tend to get fanatic about--
23:47 [INTERPOSING VOICES]
23:49 Right.
23:50 Well, good.
23:50 Well, that's some nuance to my generalization.
23:54 Well, thank you.
23:55 And thank you for joining us.
23:56 And thank you for watching.
23:58 Check us out next week for another episode
24:00 of "Watermethodal."
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