In this episode of Engine Masters presented by AMSOIL and sponsored by Mr. Gasket and Earl’s Vapor Guard
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MotorTranscript
00:00 What is your best BAM for the buck?
00:03 We're gonna find out as we test two and a half
00:05 versus three inch exhaust and expensive mufflers
00:09 versus budget mufflers.
00:11 (dramatic music)
00:13 (engine revving)
00:16 (dramatic music)
00:19 This is Engine Masters presented by AMSOIL
00:34 and sponsored by Mr. Gasket and Earl's Vapor Guard Hose.
00:38 Remember back in Engine Masters episode nine,
00:40 we did a test of two and a half versus three inch exhaust
00:44 tubing on a big block Chevy that made 600 horsepower
00:47 and the three inch exhaust was way better.
00:49 But a whole bunch of the audience said, that's great.
00:52 What about the rest of us who don't have 600 horsepower?
00:55 You wanted to see stuff for normal guys
00:57 who just have mild engines with typical bolt-ons
00:59 and wanna know what exhaust to buy.
01:01 And so that's what we're gonna do right here.
01:03 And we're gonna do it with this engine
01:05 that only makes about 345 horsepower.
01:08 This is like an L98 out of a third gen Camaro.
01:11 It's a small block Chevy, it's 350 cubic inches.
01:14 That's about all we know about what's inside this thing.
01:17 It's been sitting around West Tech Performance for so long,
01:20 everyone has forgotten what camshaft's in it.
01:22 We do know it's got this 650 Holley on it.
01:24 It's got an Edelbrock air gap dual plane intake manifold.
01:28 None of that matters as much as the power it's making,
01:30 which is about 345, because that dictates how much air
01:33 it's moving through the exhaust system.
01:35 Which means what we learn here today,
01:37 as we test two and a half versus three inch exhaust,
01:40 and bucks up mufflers versus cheap mufflers,
01:43 that is all gonna apply to any engine
01:45 making about the same power level.
01:47 So let's roll the thing in the dyno right now.
01:49 I'm gonna have to figure out what kind of AMSOIL
01:51 to put in this complete mystery engine.
01:53 Then we're gonna fire it up and show you
01:55 how much power it makes first
01:56 with either two and a half or three inch exhaust.
01:59 We're pretty sure this engine is that L98 factory motor,
02:02 but you know, we're not positive.
02:04 So we're gonna go with a lot of protection.
02:06 The AMSOIL premium protection 1040.
02:09 You wanna know a secret?
02:12 Watch how you can put oil into an engine really quickly.
02:15 You know how I normally go for the pour?
02:17 Instead, shove it in there and go for the squeeze.
02:20 Bam, full court in the engine already.
02:23 See that?
02:23 That was magic right there.
02:25 You will use that in your life.
02:36 For this test, we did a baseline run
02:38 with two and a half inch exhaust pipe.
02:40 Test A is gonna show you how swapping out to three inch pipe
02:45 compares to that baseline with two and a half inch pipe.
02:48 Both tests are being done with the Magnaflow
02:54 straight through mufflers.
02:55 Now the baseline test with two and a half inch piping
02:58 gave us 400 pound feet of torque at 3,800 RPM
03:01 and 345 horsepower at 5,100 RPM.
03:05 Now we're gonna find out what happens
03:07 when we go to that three inch pipe.
03:08 I think the only difference we're gonna see
03:16 is in variance of--
03:17 - Tone?
03:18 - Of air temperature and water temperature
03:20 and oil temperature.
03:22 - What about variance in tone, exhaust note?
03:24 - It's gonna sound a little bit throatier.
03:25 - It's gonna be a lot louder.
03:27 - Yeah, but do you think it's gonna make more power?
03:29 - You know, like I said, in the last 15 years,
03:31 I don't remember doing this test
03:33 and anything before that I don't remember, period.
03:35 - Yeah.
03:35 - So.
03:36 - I'm just presuming that 350 horsepower
03:39 has plenty of room to get out of a two and a half inch pipe,
03:42 but I don't know.
03:42 (whistling)
03:45 He thinks it's gonna be fired up.
03:47 Let's just do this.
03:48 (laughing)
03:50 (engine revving)
03:54 (whistling)
03:56 I don't know what to say, so I'm not saying anything.
04:15 Go ahead.
04:15 - And the answer is?
04:17 - Ready?
04:18 Boom, nada.
04:22 There is no difference.
04:23 We're talking, that's a quarter of a horsepower
04:25 if you can even see the line separating.
04:27 It's the same.
04:29 - Which means we're not surprised,
04:31 and he was wrong, and we're right.
04:33 - Yeah, and we didn't bet.
04:34 - The difference is with the two and a half,
04:37 they know you have a 350 inch motor,
04:38 and with the three inch, they think you have a 383.
04:41 (laughing)
04:42 - So you have all the noise and none of the advantages.
04:44 - Absolutely.
04:45 - Yeah.
04:46 Okay, so what I really wanna know,
04:47 since this makes no difference,
04:49 is those are expensive mufflers.
04:52 I think they're virtually 100 bucks each.
04:53 Stainless steel, nice Magnaflow,
04:55 straight through and everything.
04:56 What if you bought a $27 Thrush muffler?
04:59 'Cause if you have a 350 horsepower small block,
05:01 you're probably buying cheap mufflers, right?
05:04 - I think you'd be surprised by the results.
05:06 - Thanks.
05:07 - He says that every test.
05:07 - Well, let's find out.
05:08 I wanna go put the little Thrush on there
05:10 and see if it makes a difference.
05:11 I bet it kills some power.
05:13 - I bet it doesn't.
05:13 - Then let's go find out.
05:15 - It'll kill power.
05:16 - Both of those tests were with a Magnaflow muffler,
05:19 which is a stainless steel design.
05:21 It's a really nice piece.
05:22 These things have a straight through core.
05:25 Actually, of course, this has a curvature in it
05:27 because it's a center in, side out,
05:29 or a side in, center out.
05:31 You can run it either way
05:32 'cause there's no restriction in it.
05:34 It goes right through the middle.
05:36 It has a perforated core with some packing in it
05:38 to attenuate sound,
05:39 but obviously it doesn't affect horsepower
05:42 in what we just tested,
05:43 which was two and a half versus three inch exhaust.
05:46 And obviously it made no difference
05:48 on that 350 Chevy at all.
05:50 Now here's what you can deduce from that.
05:52 First of all, two and a half inch exhaust
05:54 with a good muffler is all you need for 350 horsepower,
05:58 and therefore for any amount of power less than that.
06:02 Now the other thing is,
06:03 you'll read a lot of times people saying,
06:04 "Don't go to a bigger diameter exhaust pipe
06:07 "or you're gonna lose torque
06:08 "because of a sound wave resonance
06:10 "or because of back pressure."
06:11 We didn't see any of that at all.
06:14 The two and a half and the three were exactly the same.
06:17 But because of that, I said to these guys,
06:19 "Man, I wanna know more.
06:21 "That Magnaflow costs 108 bucks.
06:24 "What happens if I use a muffler that costs 40 bucks?"
06:28 And that's what this is.
06:29 It is the Thrush Hush muffler.
06:31 I've used these things my whole life.
06:33 This is the ultimate teenage muscle car muffler.
06:35 See 'em all the time.
06:37 This one's three inch in, three inch out.
06:38 Now the difference is,
06:40 this has a block in it that it uses to attenuate sound.
06:43 It is not straight through.
06:44 So the question is, is that gonna hurt power?
06:48 We're gonna go find out
06:49 'cause we're gonna throw this
06:50 in the exact same exhaust system,
06:52 which is the three incher on our 350 Chevy.
06:54 But before we run it,
06:55 here's one more thing you need to know.
06:57 On this budget muffler, it may have a three inch pipe.
07:01 But if you look inside there,
07:03 it necks down to like two and a half,
07:05 maybe even two and a quarter.
07:07 It seems like every case is the same
07:10 regardless of the inlet and outlet size.
07:12 And the big restriction is in the core.
07:14 That could hurt it.
07:17 Install it.
07:19 - Yes, sir.
07:20 (laughing)
07:22 - I'm here for the expert tutelage.
07:24 You're the wrench.
07:25 - I understand the difference between,
07:27 I know where I am on the ladder.
07:28 (upbeat music)
07:32 - Identity your muffler.
07:40 - Bam.
07:41 (drilling)
07:45 (upbeat music)
07:48 - We might've fallen down on the symmetry a little bit,
07:51 but I think the power is all right.
07:53 - Close enough.
07:54 - Relay didn't get that clock 90 degrees.
07:57 - I know.
07:58 Relay's a hack.
07:59 - I know.
08:00 - Okay, low buck muffler, ready to go.
08:03 - Yeah.
08:04 - I say it loses power.
08:05 How about you?
08:05 - I say it stays the same.
08:06 - Really?
08:07 - I say, I don't know.
08:08 Let's find out.
08:09 (laughing)
08:10 - Which is really the correct answer.
08:11 - Yes it is.
08:12 - 'Cause none of us know.
08:13 - I know.
08:14 (dramatic music)
08:16 (drilling)
08:21 - Sounds mellow, listen to that.
08:27 - Wow, it's quieter.
08:29 (drilling)
08:31 - And it killed some power.
08:38 - Yeah.
08:39 - But it killed more than a little, did it?
08:40 - Killed a lot.
08:41 - So that's it right there.
08:43 Here is our original test with the three inch
08:46 Magnaflow muffler that is just straight through.
08:49 And you compare that to the Thrush at a three inch
08:52 and it's just making between five and 15 fewer power numbers
08:57 at every point in both the horsepower curve
09:00 and the torque curve.
09:01 - That's a big difference.
09:02 - It's a big difference.
09:03 - So it's that example of where you get what you pay for.
09:06 - Yeah, to change to the Thrush means you're saving
09:09 basically 50 bucks a muffler.
09:11 So for $100 for a pair of mufflers,
09:14 that's what you're giving them.
09:15 - I will tell you that that kind of power difference
09:17 for $100 total.
09:18 - Is really hard to get.
09:19 - Yeah, that's a pretty good bargain.
09:21 - So the better muffler is definitely worth it.
09:23 And here's the other thing that we know,
09:25 the three inch Thrush made less power
09:28 than the two and a half inch Magnaflow.
09:30 Now if you think about that for a minute,
09:32 a bunch of two and a half inch piping
09:33 is way cheaper than three inch steel.
09:35 So you save some money and it's lighter.
09:37 So if you had the choice right now of running
09:40 a great muffler on a two and a half inch system
09:42 versus a budget muffler on a three inch system.
09:46 - I think the answer is the Magnaflow
09:48 with the two and a half on this.
09:50 - On this particular engine, that's what you do.
09:51 We know that on 600 horsepower, you choose the bigger.
09:54 - You get all the power, you save some weight,
09:55 it's less expensive overall.
09:57 - But there's one consideration neither of you have mentioned
09:59 and that's sound.
10:00 That's a lot quieter than the Magnaflow
10:02 straight through muffler.
10:03 For a lot of guys, I mean they want a quieter sound.
10:06 - That's a big deal, yeah.
10:07 This one is much quieter.
10:08 So that is a distinct benefit for a lot of people
10:11 of the hush thrush or thrush hush.
10:13 - Yeah.
10:14 - Do you think there's a big difference in tone
10:15 at part throttle cruising?
10:16 - Oh yeah.
10:17 Any of the straight through mufflers,
10:18 they blot more than a muffler like the thrush
10:21 with a block plate.
10:22 And I think a lot of that can be attenuated
10:24 with a crossover tube, which we don't have.
10:25 - Good point.
10:26 - That's a test for another day.
10:27 (whooshing)
10:30 So between you and me.
10:33 - Yeah.
10:34 - Do you think Brule is losing his edge?
10:36 - Why?
10:37 - I just noticed how you can bring in a 1200 horsepower
10:40 like any big block Chevy.
10:41 - Yeah.
10:42 - And he gets more excited about when the 350 Chevy
10:44 makes quiet 340 horsepower.
10:46 What's with that?
10:47 - I don't know.
10:48 It must be old age.
10:49 (laughing)
10:50 Freaking up on him.
10:51 - How come we bring in like the most boring
10:53 average test ever with mufflers on a 350 horsepower motor
10:57 and it still ends up being pretty interesting?
10:59 - I've got to say, I was kind of excited about it too.
11:01 So it wasn't just Brule.
11:02 I really wanted to know it.
11:04 And really my bigger is better always theory
11:08 kind of let me down.
11:09 - It did.
11:10 I know.
11:10 Well, but the thing is like the real world,
11:12 like for all of us, like for your pickup truck
11:15 that you want to drive every day.
11:16 - Yeah.
11:17 - You don't want the thing wrapping with a huge muffler
11:20 that's going to drone your brains out.
11:22 - No, I really want it quiet,
11:24 but I'm not really willing to give up much horsepower.
11:27 So.
11:28 - So are you a two and a half inch Magnaflow guy?
11:30 See, because I'm still a two and a half inch thrush guy.
11:32 If I'm putting together something, I don't care that much
11:34 about acceleration.
11:35 I'll just get the cheaper muffler
11:36 because I'm probably not going to own the vehicle long
11:38 enough to justify the lifespan of the stainless steel
11:41 muffler that makes another 15 horsepower.
11:43 - Well, I'm kind of aiming for 500 horsepower in the truck.
11:45 So I probably will be the Magnaflow guy,
11:48 but on a lower horsepower engine like this,
11:51 yeah, the thrush is a way better choice.
11:53 If you want a quiet car that you can actually drive around
11:56 and live with on a day to day basis.
11:58 - When we do these tests,
11:59 I always find myself thinking kind of more philosophically
12:02 about it than I did before we walked in the door
12:04 and tested them.
12:05 It's like, oh yeah, it makes more power.
12:07 I want the thing that makes more power.
12:08 But then I often realize, well,
12:10 I'm only losing 15 throughout the curve.
12:12 Am I really going to feel that?
12:13 Am I really going to care?
12:14 Do I want to save the 80 bucks on mufflers
12:16 and however much on tubing?
12:17 I don't know.
12:18 It's always a lot to think about.
12:19 That's why I like Engine Masters.
12:20 - Yeah. I mean, for me, the 15 bucks or 50 bucks or 80 bucks,
12:24 I'll forget about long before I get over a lot of exhaust
12:28 noise and living with a day in and day out.
12:30 - Okay. Good point.
12:31 - It's a toss up.
12:32 I'm undecided.
12:32 I'm more confused than ever.
12:33 (laughing)
12:34 - That's why we do Engine Masters.
12:36 No matter what we're testing,
12:38 we always walk in with one set of questions and ideas
12:41 and walk out with another.
12:42 Check us out every time as we deal with like
12:44 the 1200 horsepower big blocks,
12:45 the 340 horsepower small blocks.
12:47 It's what we do on Engine Masters,
12:49 which is presented by Amsoil,
12:51 sponsored by Mr. Gasket and Earl's Vapor Guard.
12:55 And you can watch it on either YouTube
12:57 or Motor Trend On Demand or now on Amazon Prime.
13:00 - Amazon Prime, really?
13:02 - We're big time now.
13:03 - All right.
13:04 - Yeah. Peace out.
13:05 Travis, what are you doing?
13:06 You want to come run the engine?
13:09 - I'll run it?
13:10 - Yeah.
13:11 - What do you mean?
13:12 - Well, it means that I get to direct the scene
13:14 and you get to run the motor.
13:16 - Wow.
13:18 (laughing)
13:18 I never thought I'd have this moment of accomplishment.
13:20 (laughing)
13:22 - I thought Brulio was going to be a camera op.
13:26 - Yeah.
13:26 - I'm going to walk over there as soon as we get done.
13:27 - You can put on headphones if you want.
13:29 - Oh, of course.
13:29 - He's going to direct.
13:30 - I'm going to put your earbuds in my ear.
13:32 - Right.
13:32 (laughing)
13:33 - You see that big red button that says stop, Dave?
13:35 - Yep, I'm on it.
13:36 - Okay. That's your job.
13:37 Give it a little gas.
13:39 Go to wide open and let it stabilize.
13:45 Go to wide open first.
13:46 All the way.
13:48 All the way.
13:49 Push apart.
13:50 Push the button.
13:54 (engine roaring)
13:56 (laughing)
13:59 - Yay!
14:10 (clapping)
14:11 - Super proud.
14:12 - All right, Dave.
14:12 - Super difficult.