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00:00 The hope and secret about this year's Ballon d'Or is that Lionel Messi and Erling Haaland
00:04 are the frontrunners for the award.
00:06 In this episode, the jury is out to decide who wins the award and how they should be
00:11 determined.
00:12 My name is Ayobidi Shetubo, I bid you welcome to a fresh episode of Nutmeg on Guardian TV.
00:22 So for this conversation, I'm joined by Tochukwu and James makes a return to the Nutmeg.
00:28 Hey guys, how you doing?
00:30 I'm doing very well and you?
00:31 Good to have you.
00:32 Yeah, thanks, always a pleasure.
00:34 And of course we know what the topic is, it's probably the simplest question to ask but
00:39 it always requires a difficult answer because it's opinionated.
00:43 I mean, the 30 man list was released, we know it's a two man battle between Erling Haaland
00:49 and Lionel Messi.
00:50 So the straight question for you is who wins it for you?
00:53 Let me start with you James.
00:55 For me, I think I want to go with Erling Haaland because he did very well for Manchester City.
01:00 You cannot rule out the fact that his goals contributed a lot for Manchester City to become
01:07 the second English team to win the treble after Manchester United in 1999.
01:11 So I know that it's going to be very difficult because you have a certain Lionel Messi there,
01:17 you cannot rule out his performance at the World Cup, you know, very key.
01:21 And unfortunately for Haaland, he wasn't at the World Cup.
01:24 But I still think with his performance, he did very well for Manchester City.
01:28 You need to consider the fact that it was his first season in England.
01:32 A lot of people have this belief that somebody who's coming from another league that's always
01:37 very difficult to play in the English Premier League but he dusted all that, he was top
01:41 scorer, he almost broke Alonso Ramos' record.
01:43 But at least you cannot rule out the fact that he was very key for Manchester City.
01:48 So for me, I think I believe that he should be the person who should win the Ballon d'Or
01:55 for this year.
01:56 Well interestingly, it's a World Cup here, Lionel Messi did win, in fact he helped Argentina
02:00 to a first title World Championship for the first time since 36 years or in 36 years.
02:09 So that is definitely going to be at the top of the debate.
02:12 People are definitely going to want to say Lionel Messi should win.
02:15 But do you share the same sentiment?
02:17 The Ballon d'Or should be based on your performance throughout the season, both for club and country.
02:22 If we're going to say, since it's a World Cup here, Messi should edge it, what about
02:26 his performances in the league?
02:29 Both of them played in Champions League.
02:31 Haaland performed better, though some people argue that towards the ending of the tournament,
02:36 he kind of ghosted.
02:37 But that is normal, he has already shown that he can perform.
02:43 He came to the Premier League in just one season, he broke almost all kinds of records
02:47 for scoring, he was scoring goals for free.
02:49 He turned the Premier League into a farmers' league.
02:52 So I think he has done enough to prove that he's worthy of that shot.
02:57 While Messi, I feel like, Messi did not just do the whole work alone for Argentina.
03:02 There are some players that you call, especially someone like the keeper, there were moments
03:07 when he was the one that saved the game for Argentina.
03:10 So if we're going to put all these factors into place, I think Haaland has a better shot
03:16 at winning the league.
03:17 That's your opinion.
03:18 Let's see what people on the streets think, because we did hit the road to understand
03:24 what people feel about it.
03:26 Lionel Messi, he did very well, extremely well at this last World Cup.
03:31 Haaland did very well at Champions League, but at international, at national team level,
03:37 he has not done that well.
03:39 He's still an upcoming player.
03:41 Winning English Premiership and European Champions League does not mean automatically that he
03:46 has to win Ballon d'Or.
03:48 To me, Messi is not in this contest because he only performed in the World Cup and that
03:55 performance in the World Cup even boils down to him scoring a lot of penalties.
04:00 Compared to Haaland, who won the treble, that's huge.
04:04 Messi can win the Ballon d'Or because World Cup is above any tournament.
04:10 You have the chance to win it ahead of Haaland.
04:14 I prefer Haaland to win it because he did so much.
04:18 Just look at the Premiership, look what he did.
04:22 He scored multiple goals.
04:24 He created a history that has not been done before.
04:27 He just came into the Premiership and did something exceptional.
04:31 Now for Messi, Messi is good.
04:33 He's good, he's outstanding, but I think it would be partial if they should give it to
04:37 Messi.
04:38 For him scoring or for him winning the treble with Manchester City under Guardiola, he's
04:45 doing good.
04:46 But he hasn't reached the aim of Lionel Messi of Geto in the game.
04:53 Being the highest-scoring scorer now, or scoring a series of goals now, he's trying, he's still
04:59 doing it, but it's not up to Lionel Messi.
05:01 Traditionally, in football, people seem to give more credence to Messi.
05:08 Even when he's not even performing.
05:10 With his current game, with PSG last season, and his performance, he doesn't deserve the
05:16 Ballon d'Or.
05:17 If you want to consider the World Cup, in my own view, he doesn't deserve the Ballon
05:21 d'Or because you can't judge a student by just one course out of four courses.
05:28 He played in the league, he played in the Champions League, so why should we use only
05:33 the World Cup to judge him?
05:35 I'll go for Eline Haaland because, national team-wise, Eline Haaland has been performing
05:40 very well for the national team.
05:42 Club-side, he's at the best, both in the league, in the Champions League, and in every competition.
05:52 So I think Eline Haaland is the best for me.
05:55 I think the right candidate for the Ballon d'Or is KDB, Kevin De Bruyne.
06:02 It's not Messi.
06:03 Messi has competed in football by winning the World Cup, but I don't think winning the
06:07 World Cup alone should be a criteria for winning the Ballon d'Or.
06:12 Haaland himself, he was able to score lots of goals because there was KDB to give the
06:18 assist.
06:19 So I think KDB deserves, in the last three or four seasons, he has been consistent with
06:24 assists and so I think he deserves to win the Ballon d'Or.
06:29 I think he should go for Lionel Messi because he has been playing for the club for 33 years.
06:35 Messi should not even be in the top five.
06:37 Basically, for Ballon d'Or, he should go for Lionel Messi because he has also competed
06:42 in football, just like everyone has been saying.
06:45 And also, he played a crucial role in Argentina winning the World Cup.
06:49 Without Messi doing that World Cup campaign, I don't think Argentina would even be anywhere
06:53 close to winning it.
06:54 I'm a Chelsea fan, but at the same time, in Spain, I support Madrid.
06:58 So literally, you should know I will not want Messi to win the Ballon d'Or.
07:02 So in terms of Haaland, Haaland had a very fantastic season.
07:09 His goals, winning the Champions League, in fact, he won treble.
07:13 So he did absolutely well.
07:15 But now, it's the World Cup year.
07:17 I know in the World Cup year, the Ballon d'Or is being given sometimes in the World Cup
07:22 year.
07:23 Who wants the World Cup?
07:24 For me, I would choose Kylian Mbappé.
07:29 He did well, scored a hard trick in the final.
07:32 He pushed.
07:33 You understand?
07:34 So we don't have no choice.
07:35 The Ballon d'Or must go to Messi because it's the World Cup year and he won it.
07:39 And from what you can see now, Lionel Messi is on the lips of almost everybody on that
07:44 list.
07:45 But also, there is a surprisingly one mentioned that Kevin De Bruyne should be winning or
07:53 should be in that conversation as well.
07:54 And that leads me to the next question, which is that, which on a level playing ground,
08:00 what do you think is greater to achieve?
08:03 A treble or the World Cup in the first for your country in 36 years and you're the
08:09 one leading the trail to that feat?
08:12 Okay, you said a treble first in 36 years.
08:16 Let's put into place that since the iteration of Haaland to Man City, this is the first
08:21 time Man City has ever won an international treble or intercontinental competition.
08:29 More talk less of having a treble in a single season.
08:33 Now if you were to factor some of that into place, you will see that most of the players
08:38 for Argentina, they played like it was their last game.
08:43 The original season was for Messi.
08:45 So I don't know if you just, okay, now let's bring Kevin De Bruyne into place.
08:49 We know that the fact that Haaland performed the way he performed was down to a lot of
08:55 the hard work of Kevin De Bruyne.
08:57 Then now look at Belgium.
08:59 Belgium had nothing to say about in the World Cup.
09:03 Why was it so?
09:04 De Bruyne was there.
09:05 But this goes to tell you that it's not about who is giving the assist, it's about
09:09 who is making the assist count.
09:10 So if you have somebody like, Belgium have strikers that are supposed to perform better,
09:15 but you will not tell me that De Bruyne was not giving these passes, they were not converting,
09:19 that was the problem.
09:20 So we have somebody that is a letter finisher, he knows where to be in the box, he knows
09:24 when to go for the ball and when not to go for the ball, then he converted these goals.
09:28 Because if he didn't convert, we would not be having this Kevin De Bruyne conversation
09:31 here.
09:32 One thing I want to bring in is, I don't know why people are not talking about Mbappe.
09:35 Mbappe is supposed to be...
09:37 I mean it's called a hat trick in the World Cup final.
09:40 When you look at the stats, he was Messi's team mate before Messi moved to Inter Miami.
09:45 When you look at the stats, they are not far from each other.
09:47 So the conversation you are trying to build, which is also on some other people's lips,
09:53 why should the young man, it's an individual award, so why should he not also be in that
09:57 conversation?
09:58 Yeah, I don't think, if you are looking at the top three, which means you are looking
10:02 at Mbappe, Messi and Haaland, but where the solid Messi and Haaland/Hedge team is, because
10:08 Messi won the World Cup, Haaland won the treble.
10:11 So that's why Mbappe is not that, when it comes to the talking poem, the action.
10:20 So he would be like maybe the top five, because he is the second footballer to score a hat
10:25 trick at the World Cup after Geoff Hurst in 1966.
10:29 Unfortunately, Martinez denied him.
10:31 I didn't mean Mwane or what his name is.
10:34 Colo Mwane.
10:35 I mean, he also said off camera that you feel Martinez, the Argentine goalkeeper should
10:43 also win or should be in the conversation.
10:47 Because there were many games that the teams were not performing top-notch, but he was
10:51 there to save it, time after time.
10:54 So I feel like, well, we know Messi has always been performing.
10:59 The reason why I feel like Messi is even in this conversation is because he is already
11:01 a fan's favourite.
11:02 And if you look at the story coming to the World Cup, it was supposed to be between him
11:08 and his archrival.
11:09 But unfortunately for Ronaldo, Portugal crashed out then.
11:13 It was like this was supposed to crown everything for Messi.
11:16 And it happened that way.
11:17 So it's like a fairy tale ending for Messi.
11:20 But let's give Haaland his flower.
11:22 Whichever way you want to look at it, it's a thing of beauty to be nominated as one of
11:27 the best players in the world.
11:29 And when you talk about that, let's not forget Victor Simen was also on that list.
11:33 I don't want us to talk about how far he is.
11:36 We know he achieved something incredible.
11:39 But I really want us to switch gears talking about women's football.
11:43 And of course, Azizat Ushuala was also in the list for the women's category of the
11:48 award.
11:49 Thinking of Azizat Ushuala from Barcelona, she's doing well.
11:53 She did well with them winning the Champions League, the Women's Champions League with
11:57 them.
11:58 And for Kaysedo, indeed, indeed.
12:02 She's a young chap and she took the world by storm.
12:05 I was impressed with what she played.
12:07 If I was FIFA, if I was to vote, I would go for her because she actually played well
12:11 in the World Cup.
12:12 She was the man in their female team.
12:14 She did well.
12:15 I would be happy if I see Azizat Ushuala, a baller, in a top three or top five.
12:24 She didn't really perform in the World Cup.
12:28 Our performance in this World Cup is very low.
12:30 She can win it.
12:33 I don't think she's in a position to win it right now.
12:38 If you say CAF award, good.
12:39 Ushuala, I think she'll make the top ten, but I don't see her winning it.
12:45 Like you saw in the video, many fans did not give her a chance.
12:50 Are you giving her any slim chance of even being in that conversation for the top three
12:55 of the women's Ballon d'Or?
12:56 Last season, she was nominated.
12:59 This season, good achievement for her.
13:01 The fact that she was even recognised is enough achievement.
13:04 If you check out the other players who get nominated, apart from their performance in
13:08 the league, they always do well when it comes to the Champions League.
13:11 For me, that's one of the main criteria.
13:14 Azizat has been doing very well for Barcelona, especially in the league.
13:17 When it comes to the Champions League, she's just one of those players who just contributes.
13:22 Without her, they can still go ahead and win it.
13:24 For me, I think that's the reason why she will not have a...
13:27 By the time the list will be trimmed down, don't be surprised that she will be among
13:30 the players who will be so...
13:33 For me, like I said, it's a big achievement that she's the only African on the list.
13:39 For me, that's enough achievement.
13:40 It's not like she particularly fared so well in the World Cup.
13:44 She only starred in one game.
13:45 But I want to talk about players that fared in the World Cup.
13:47 A lot of the fans did not talk about Sam Kea, the Australian star.
13:52 I'm surprised they did not.
13:53 I'm surprised they skipped him entirely.
13:55 But then there were also breakout stars.
13:56 We had Linda Caicedo, fantastic teenager.
13:59 She showed...
14:00 And even her goal is up for probably the Pushkas Award.
14:03 And also there's Salma Paraluello of Spain, also a teenager.
14:07 She was a shining light during the latter stages of the tournament.
14:10 But then there are also names like Bonmati, the captain of the Spanish team as well.
14:17 Sam Kea is also one, but it's a lot.
14:19 We have mentioned five names.
14:21 The English goalkeeper, Mary Epps, is also one.
14:24 You can even go as far as mentioning Ada Agerberg of Denmark.
14:27 There's one thing about good players, very, very good players, consistency.
14:32 You keep on bringing in those top form each game, each game.
14:35 Why if you want to look at the World Cup now, most of these players, most of these countries
14:39 now you see as they played in qualifiers and stuff like that.
14:42 Look at the countries they played in the qualifiers.
14:44 Most of them are countries that even if you play with your second team, you win them easily.
14:51 I think it's easier said than done.
14:53 And thinking about it, for a team like Argentina, they went up to three years without conceding
14:58 through the qualifiers, winning the Copa America, the finalisima against Italy.
15:03 Are you going to suddenly just discounting us all of that away from this conversation?
15:08 No, not really.
15:09 We're not saying that we want to discard that because that was a big achievement.
15:14 Remember before they won the Copa America, it took them like how many years?
15:17 The last time they won a major was '92.
15:19 They eventually won it in Brazil.
15:21 So I know it's taking away the fact that the Argentine team, Messi, they did very well.
15:26 But like I said, the league is a marathon.
15:29 You know, for somebody to be so consistent, that's why I keep hoping about Haaland.
15:34 I mean, the fact that it was his first season, it's not always easy.
15:38 Just breaking records year on year.
15:39 So for me, Messi did well for Argentina.
15:42 But one thing about the World Cup is you have a very good run.
15:45 You know, you just have seven games.
15:46 Not as if it's easy games.
15:48 But seven games of your life.
15:50 Yes.
15:51 You just put in everything.
15:52 That's why you work hard.
15:53 Yeah.
15:54 So not ruling out the fact that they did very well.
15:56 The World Cup is the biggest football competition in the world.
15:58 But the sad part is Haaland was not there.
16:01 We don't know what would have happened if he had been.
16:03 Exactly.
16:04 He had to win Norway.
16:05 Everything's the same.
16:06 So for me, I will still stick with Erling Haaland.
16:09 Just the fact that he did it like in the marathon race and he proved to everybody that he's
16:14 one of the best strikers right now in the world.
16:17 Well, the jury is all square.
16:19 People on the streets had their say.
16:21 And also James and Tuchukwu here have had theirs as well.
16:24 What is yours?
16:25 You can tell us in the comments section.
16:27 But on this particular episode of the show, it's a wrap.
16:31 Thank you very much for watching.
16:33 And you can also stay around this community by following us, subscribing on our channel
16:38 and also tapping the notification bell to get our latest content.
16:44 Well my name is Ahmed Eshetobo.
16:45 I'll see you in the next episode.
16:47 Goodbye.
16:47 Goodbye.
16:48 Goodbye.
16:50 Goodbye.
16:51 [MUSIC PLAYING]
16:55 (whooshing)