Trump's Breaking News [1AM] 10_3_23 - Trump Latest News Oct 3, 2023
Trump's Breaking News [1AM] 10_3_23 - Trump Latest News Oct 3, 2023
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00:00 tonight to at least try to for the first time in more than a century.
00:04 Plus new reporting tonight why a seething Donald Trump chose to show up in court today
00:09 to face the judge who found him liable for fraud and the attorney general who brought
00:13 that case against him, raging at both of them on day one of his trial.
00:17 And a nine-year-old tonight who had vanished on a camping trip has just been found alive
00:22 after 400 rescue workers were out looking for her.
00:26 A suspect is now in custody and we have the latest.
00:29 I'm Kaitlin Collins and this is The Source.
00:39 Tonight a showdown is now underway on Capitol Hill over whether House Speaker Kevin McCarthy
00:44 can keep his job.
00:45 A member of his own conference, Congressman Matt Gaetz of Florida, one of the right's
00:49 most defiant hardliners and certainly one of McCarthy's biggest detractors, has just
00:53 followed through on his threat to move to remove Kevin McCarthy from the House speakership.
01:00 Well he doesn't have my support anymore and he doesn't have the support of a requisite
01:04 number of Republicans to continue as the Republican speaker.
01:07 Now he may continue as the House speaker and he may continue as a speaker of the Democrats
01:13 and some sort of uniparty coalition but he is not going to be a speaker in power as a
01:18 consequence of Republican votes.
01:21 McCarthy responding with these three words to that, quote, "Bring it on."
01:25 Gaetz replying with two of his own, "Just did."
01:29 McCarthy of course could need Democrats to save him but right now they are saying almost
01:32 to a T that they are going to wait to hear from Democratic leaders to take a position
01:37 before they decide how they will vote.
01:39 And with this breaking news I am joined now by Republican Congressman Tim Burchett of
01:43 Tennessee on Capitol Hill.
01:45 Congressman, given this breaking news, are you going to vote to oust Kevin McCarthy from
01:49 his job?
01:50 Well really I see it as two things.
01:53 One do I vote against my friend Kevin McCarthy or do I go with my conscience?
01:59 That's kind of where I'm at and I'm currently praying about it but I would, if it was right
02:04 now, I would vote to oust him, yes.
02:07 Okay, so if the vote was held right now and of course it will have to be held in the next
02:11 two days, do you foresee that changing or are you a yes vote, do you believe, over the
02:15 next two days to oust Kevin McCarthy?
02:17 I don't really think I will other than the phone calls that I'll get right after they
02:21 see this broadcast.
02:24 I suspect that the pressure will be put on us.
02:27 But it's been pretty clear with me, ma'am, all along, as you know, I've talked about
02:31 the fiscal responsibility, really have two jobs here.
02:35 One is 12 appropriations and passing a budget.
02:40 We've not done that.
02:41 We've not done that in 30 years and we just keep abdicating our duty.
02:45 We said, oh, we're going to do a 45-day one now and that's great but that's not what I
02:50 signed up for.
02:51 I signed up to do my job and my job is to pass a budget and that's not what we're doing.
02:55 We talked about that last time you were here.
02:57 Are there 218 votes to oust McCarthy, do you believe?
03:00 I don't know.
03:01 I don't know if there's a half a dozen but it's what I believe.
03:06 I'm not really a barometer checker.
03:09 I don't really care about all that.
03:10 I'm just going to do what's right for me and the people of the district that I represent
03:13 and that seems to be the will of them and it's obviously my will.
03:17 I'm just disgusted about a system where we're supposed to be in meetings and here it is.
03:22 We've got 45 days and what are we doing?
03:25 We had a nice dinner tonight.
03:26 We started work at 6 o'clock and I guarantee you the good, hardworking people of Tennessee
03:31 and most of the people that are watching this, Democrats and Republicans, they're going to
03:34 be up tomorrow morning at 5.30 or 6 o'clock working.
03:37 You've got single moms doing two jobs, teachers going to school, doctors, lawyers, firemen,
03:42 everybody is.
03:43 I think Congress is not.
03:44 On that note, the question of course is if he's ousted, who would replace Kevin McCarthy?
03:49 Are there any names being floated that you've heard?
03:52 Well I'm joined off to my side here by Chip Roy.
03:56 He'd be a wise choice but I'm sure now he's scared that I've said his name.
04:00 He's probably going to look under his car before he starts it as he walks out of here.
04:03 And did he say he's going to vote to oust McCarthy?
04:06 No ma'am, no he hasn't.
04:07 I haven't asked anybody honestly.
04:10 I'm not polling people.
04:11 I'm just going to do what's right for me.
04:12 I think that's part of the problem with this town.
04:14 We look to see what's going to pass instead of doing what our conscience tells us to do.
04:18 That's why we're $33 trillion in debt, honestly.
04:22 We pass these monstrosity omnibus bills and then we check down to see, oh, there's the
04:29 stuff I need or there's the lobbyist I need degrees.
04:31 And then we vote for the bill and then there's over 2,000 pages of Nancy Pelosi, we've got
04:37 to pass it until we know what's in it kind of stuff.
04:40 And here we are.
04:41 We said we're going to be different and we're not.
04:43 Yeah.
04:44 All right.
04:45 Congressman Tim Burchett, you just joined us at the last minute on this breaking news.
04:47 So appreciate your time tonight.
04:49 You are a yes to oust Kevin McCarthy.
04:51 Thank you for joining me.
04:52 Thank you.
04:53 And I'm so glad they found that little girl.
04:55 We all are.
04:56 And certainly her family is as well.
04:57 Thank you for that.
04:58 Of course, the question tonight becomes if enough Republicans do move to oust McCarthy,
05:02 as the congressman just said there, he's a yes.
05:05 Will Democrats potentially cut a deal to save him?
05:07 Well, let's ask one.
05:08 We've got Democratic Congressman Jared Moskowitz of Florida here with us.
05:12 Congressman, would you vote personally to save Kevin McCarthy's job?
05:16 Well, thanks, Kaitlin.
05:18 Thanks for having me on.
05:19 Well, look, I'm going to wait till Hakeem Jeffries weighs in.
05:22 As Hakeem said tonight, people are tired of the partisanship, the gamesmanship, the brinksmanship
05:28 that this has brought in the two in the two in the one hundred eighteenth Congress.
05:33 All we've seen is this sort of chaos.
05:35 We saw chaos during the debt ceiling when they wanted to wreck the economy, the chaos
05:39 caucus.
05:40 We saw this when it came to impeachment last week in the impeachment hearing, trying to
05:46 impeach a president for something his son did.
05:48 And then we just saw just a couple of days ago when they almost closed down the government,
05:52 hurting our military and helping our adversaries.
05:55 So this is just more chaos.
05:56 But look, I'm going to wait to hear from Hakeem Jeffries.
05:59 Hakeem's done a great job leading the Democratic House caucus through this, all of this chaos,
06:04 quite frankly.
06:05 And so, you know, I'm going to wait to hear what he has to say.
06:07 I mean, that is what we are hearing from Democrats.
06:10 They want to wait to have leadership weigh in.
06:12 Kind of would be a remarkable situation, though, if Democrats are voting to save Kevin McCarthy's
06:16 job.
06:17 If that happens, what do you want to get from McCarthy in exchange for your vote?
06:21 Is it on Ukraine funding?
06:22 Is there anything else that assurances you would want in order to cast a vote for McCarthy?
06:27 Well, look, I'm not going to negotiate with the speaker, obviously, through the TV.
06:32 I'll let my my leadership do that.
06:35 But obviously, look, you know, there are priorities for the American people.
06:38 We've been up here putting people over politics since January.
06:42 And so, look, yeah, there this is about making sure that we're doing everything we can for
06:47 the American people.
06:48 It's about, you know, funding our military.
06:50 It's about making sure that our military can even have the leaders that they need to fill
06:54 positions as we see Republicans blocking that in the Senate.
06:58 It's about helping the American people, you know, put food on the table.
07:02 You know, it's about making sure they're good paying jobs.
07:04 And so at the end of the day, Democrats have an agenda.
07:09 And you know, I have faith in Hakeem Jeffries to negotiate that.
07:12 But at the end of the day, this is obviously going to be fascinating.
07:14 And you haven't heard this from Hakeem Jeffries yet.
07:17 Is that right?
07:18 We have a caucus meeting in the morning, so I imagine we'll hear from him then.
07:22 But but look, this is going to be fascinating, you know, one way or another, because at the
07:25 end of the day, whether it passes or fails in the next couple of days.
07:30 And by the way, it'll be a motion to table.
07:31 Imagine what we'll be voting on.
07:33 We won't be voting on the actual motion to vacate.
07:36 But you know, after that, Matt may make this motion over and over again.
07:40 Republicans can then start denying the rule, which means no bill can come up.
07:44 So this is not over.
07:45 This is going to be chaos now, you know, continued.
07:49 And by the way, in the event Kevin Kevin doesn't have the votes and the motion to vacate eventually
07:54 succeeds, you know, then it could be weeks and weeks before we have a speaker as we approach
07:59 again another shutdown.
08:00 So more chaos from the Republicans in the 118th Congress.
08:04 Yeah, it seems to be the MO on Capitol Hill these days.
08:08 Congressman, after you have that meeting in the morning, please let us know what the leadership
08:11 tells you.
08:12 And thank you for joining tonight.
08:15 And for more perspective on this, let's go to Republican governor, the former governor
08:18 of Maryland, the national co-chair of the No Labels.
08:21 Larry Hogan is here with us.
08:23 I mean, we had a lot of things that we want to talk to you about.
08:25 But given this breaking news, this is a party that you've been a member of for a long time.
08:29 What do you make of what's happening on Capitol Hill?
08:31 Well, I think, you know, just it's showing that we're it's nothing but divisiveness and
08:37 dysfunction in Washington.
08:38 And I think the average person is just kind of disgusted by it.
08:41 And I think Matt Gaetz is a poster child for everything that's wrong with Washington and
08:47 why they have a 15 percent approval rating for Congress.
08:49 And I don't think the average person is really following the palace intrigue as much as we
08:54 are about who's going to be the speaker.
08:56 But they are pretty frustrated that we're not talking about the economy, that we're
08:59 not actually coming together to get things done.
09:01 And I think, you know, it's it's instead of focusing on things like the economy, which
09:07 the Republicans should be doing, because polls show where voters approve of Republicans on
09:11 the economy by 20 points over Democrats.
09:14 We're not talking about that.
09:15 We're we're talking about, you know, we're following Trump trials and fights over speakers.
09:19 It seems to raise the question of can Republicans govern?
09:21 I mean, they have the House majority on Capitol Hill and this is what it looks like tonight.
09:24 Well, it's not helping the campaign, that's for sure, because it looks like we're dysfunctional
09:29 on it.
09:30 And frankly, I think the Democrats are enjoying watching that happen.
09:33 So it's going to it's going to be interesting to see.
09:35 I don't think there's enough Republican votes to to remove the speaker, but it's going to
09:39 make us look like we can't leave.
09:40 What if the fight on Capitol Hill is over Ukraine funding?
09:43 And I know that this is something that you've stood out.
09:45 You've supported Ukraine when you were governor.
09:47 You sent them a multimillion dollar package.
09:49 Kevin McCarthy stripped that Ukraine funding from what they passed on Saturday to keep
09:53 the government funded.
09:54 I mean, what kind of message does that send to Kiev and to Moscow?
09:57 Well, it sends a terrible message.
09:59 And I think it says not just to Kiev and Moscow, it sends a message to to all of our enemies
10:05 that they no longer fear us and our allies, that we're no longer going to support them.
10:10 And it's it's not you know, look, if even if you don't care about standing up for freedom
10:15 and democracy or supporting our allies, it's it's in America's best interest to make sure
10:19 that, you know, we've given everything that we can give them to get this war done.
10:23 You don't want to open check.
10:24 But this these folks, these Republicans haven't spent much time at the Reagan library.
10:28 I can tell you that I don't they don't know about the importance of peace through strength.
10:32 And I think I think this is a big mistake of this big fight over not funding Ukraine.
10:37 I think a number of the Republicans on the debate stage agreed with that.
10:40 But some of these folks in Congress just don't seem to understand the importance of it.
10:44 And that number is growing of those who don't support it on Capitol Hill and at least in
10:47 the House.
10:48 You mentioned the other aspect of what we've been covering today, which was Donald Trump
10:52 here in court for his day, one of his civil trial, which he didn't actually have to be
10:56 there.
10:57 But what what does it say to you as someone who is asked many times if you were going
11:00 to run for president when you see the Republican front runner there in court instead of out
11:05 of the campaign trail?
11:06 Well, I think it's a huge distraction and it's sucking all the oxygen out of the room.
11:12 So I'm proud that we have a lot of great Republican candidates are up on that debate stage getting
11:17 but they're getting no traction because no one's no one's paying attention.
11:21 And instead of focusing in on the issues and talking about how we're going to fix the economy
11:24 and what we're going to do about crime in our cities and and debating about funding
11:28 for Ukraine, we're spending time watching Donald Trump's trials.
11:31 And you talk about the Donald Trump trial.
11:32 Well, which one?
11:33 I mean, it's every day.
11:34 It's a different thing.
11:35 And all throughout the primaries, that's that's going to it's going to be court TV instead
11:38 of why can we do a better job of leading?
11:41 Well, it is clearly hit a nerve for him.
11:43 I mean, if you listen to him today, he was so angry as he came out.
11:46 It used to be in real estate.
11:48 You had a firm before you became governor.
11:49 Why do you think it is hitting such a nerve with Trump?
11:52 Well, I think it's it's potentially going to cost him real money.
11:55 I mean, it's going to hurt his business and he may may lose two hundred fifty million
11:59 dollars.
12:00 But I think I think it's part of it is theater.
12:02 I mean, it did strike a nerve, but he went he didn't have to be there.
12:06 He went there because it's this is part of his attention to attack the judge, attack
12:10 the prosecutor.
12:11 He's fundraising.
12:12 He's fundraising off of anyone to make a big show.
12:14 It's kind of a typical is same pattern that we see from Trump all of the time.
12:18 Is it appropriate for him to be fundraising off of?
12:20 No, it's not.
12:21 And it's not appropriate, but it's pretty typical.
12:23 You told her the idea of running.
12:25 You are not running for the Republican nomination.
12:27 You have left open the door to run as a third party ticket.
12:31 When you see something like that today, do you get closer to that?
12:34 Well, you know, look, I think about 70 percent of the people in America do not want Donald
12:39 Trump or Joe Biden to be president.
12:41 And, you know, we're at a strange place where we've never been in this country where, you
12:45 know, 44 percent of the people are independent.
12:48 Sixty eight percent say they'd like another alternative.
12:50 But I don't know if it makes sense or not.
12:52 It's not something I'm pursuing.
12:54 I got involved in this no labels group because it's all about bipartisanship and working
12:58 together and finding common ground and and compromise to get things done.
13:02 And that's what I've been all about for eight years as governor.
13:05 But this, you know, you saw the Robert F. Kennedy Jr. came out.
13:08 He's at 19 percent in the polls as an independent.
13:11 Imagine if we had a sane independent candidate, how much you could be pulling.
13:15 So yes or no.
13:17 It's a it's a I think it's too early to decide.
13:20 My hope is still that we can possibly nominate someone other than Trump.
13:26 And I'm hoping that, frankly, Joe Biden is not the Democratic nominee.
13:30 I mean, they're the two weakest candidates with the two lowest approval rating in history.
13:34 And it's not what America wants.
13:35 But it sure seems like Trump's going to be the nominee if the election was tomorrow.
13:39 Seems like it would be.
13:40 And, you know, Joe Biden is the one that's going to enable him because he's the weakest
13:44 candidate to run against.
13:46 So no, yes or no.
13:47 No, yes or no.
13:48 It's a I haven't ruled it out.
13:49 But when do you decide?
13:51 I think we're going to wait and see after Tuesday what happens with these two candidates.
13:55 Former Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, thank you for being here on set with us tonight.
13:58 Thank you, Caitlin.
14:00 Coming up, we have brand new reporting about what the governor was just referencing there.
14:03 Why Donald Trump showed up to his civil fraud trial in New York today.
14:07 Plus, Cassidy Hutchinson is here.
14:09 Former Trump White House aide who famously testified before the January 6th Congressional
14:14 Committee.
14:15 Her reaction to the scathing new remarks about her former boss from another one of his former
14:20 employees, chief of staff John Kelly, who is now saying, quote, God help us.
14:28 I have new reporting on why Donald Trump decided to show up here in New York for his day in
14:33 court in his civil case.
14:34 A notable move given he did not actually have to be here for that.
14:39 Trump's fury over a trial that cuts at the heart of his image was obvious.
14:43 Several sources tell me that Trump's choice to show up was as personal as it was political.
14:48 Sources say that Trump has been venting for days after the Manhattan Supreme Court judge
14:52 that he was before today, Judge Engron, found him liable for fraud and told him that he
14:57 was living in a, quote, fantasy world when it came to the value of his properties, or
15:01 at least what they said the value of those properties was.
15:04 These allegations that Trump consistently inflated his net worth by billions of dollars
15:09 strikes right at the heart of what Trump values the most, his business and his brand.
15:14 One insider tells me, quote, they are hitting him where it hurts.
15:18 They pointed to the multiple occasions today when the former president attacked the judge
15:21 and the New York attorney general, Letitia James, who filed this lawsuit and stood just
15:26 steps away from them.
15:27 We have a rogue judge.
15:31 We have a racist attorney general who's a horror show.
15:35 Just so you know, my financial statements are phenomenal.
15:38 This is a disgrace.
15:39 And you ought to go after this attorney general.
15:41 This is a judge that should be disbarred.
15:42 Some people say he could be charged criminally for what he's doing.
15:43 Mr. Trump, why do you want to be here in person today?
15:44 Because I want to watch this witch hunt myself.
15:55 Of course, as you hear those repeated attacks today, remember that comes after he was warned
15:59 in a separate criminal case that is not related to this one, not to lash out at court personnel.
16:05 But sources say that Trump has told those closest to him he doesn't care if he's punished
16:08 for those attacks or even potentially given a gag order, a limited one in another case,
16:13 because he believes it will benefit him politically.
16:17 Joining me now to break down everything we saw happen today, or at least try to, David
16:20 Kelly, a former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, and Tamodaya Agongo
16:25 Williams, former senior investigative counsel for the January 6th committee.
16:29 David, I mean, when you hear Trump's attorney arguing in court today about these assets,
16:34 they said, you know, it's not fraud, it's real estate, making that defense essentially
16:38 of why the numbers were not accurate.
16:40 How does the judge take that, do you think?
16:42 Well, I think what the judge tries to figure is puts himself in what that milieu is, which
16:47 is there is a lot of subjectivity.
16:49 There's a lot of different interests and they're floating different numbers.
16:52 And as the Trump camp says, there's a lot going on where, you know, there's a lot of
16:56 fluff there and that's part of the game.
16:57 But what the judge has said is that even given that, this is really in a completely different
17:02 universe, a different orbit than even in that.
17:06 When you're talking about inflating everything from 17 to 35 percent, it just doesn't even
17:12 land in the area where Trump's camp would like you to believe it is.
17:16 And they were saying something was 11,000 square feet that actually was closer to 3,000
17:21 square feet.
17:22 I mean, those are hard numbers.
17:23 But Tim, I mean, we've already seen the judge issue this ruling last week, finding Trump
17:26 liable for this.
17:27 I mean, that decision has already been, that die has already been cast.
17:31 Where do they go from here?
17:32 I mean, why are his attorneys still trying to argue it's not fraud?
17:36 I think one, they don't really have any other arguments.
17:38 I mean, what the judge has done is rule on partial issues.
17:42 The judge has basically looked at those financial statements that David is talking about and
17:45 said those things are false.
17:47 There are other issues that are going to be before the judge about other accounts that
17:50 the attorney general is bringing against the former president.
17:53 So it's not all done.
17:54 I mean, his lawyers have to go out there and there's a defense to be put forward.
17:58 And there's a big question I think might matter the most to the former president, which is
18:01 how much money, if the attorney general is fully successful, is she going to be taking
18:05 from him?
18:06 And the judge is still going to decide that.
18:07 Yeah.
18:08 And one thing, of course, that has infuriated Trump and was notable about why and how he
18:12 was there today is the property value of Mar-a-Lago itself.
18:15 I mean, Trump is claiming, and his attorneys were actually claiming this in court today,
18:19 that it could be worth over a billion dollars if they sold it.
18:22 And a appraiser in Palm Beach, who the judge cited in his ruling, put it in this $18 to
18:28 $28 million range.
18:29 I mean, when you look at that and you hear that argument in court today, how much of
18:33 that has to do with an appeal to the judge or an appeal to your client?
18:37 I think a lot of what we're seeing today in the theatrics involved in Trump being there
18:41 hasn't anything to do with the judge appeasing the judge.
18:45 I mean, I think they've already feel like they've lost the battle with the judge.
18:48 I think in some measure, Trump is using this as a platform to promote the notion that these
18:55 cases, not just this one, but all the other cases, are really about election interference.
19:01 And it also kind of feeds into his political campaign, which is I'm the victim.
19:07 So it's really using this as a campaign vehicle, because as you say, I don't think there's
19:13 really a whole lot they have to defend the case.
19:17 And so a lot of this noise doesn't really-- and the judge came out with a very detailed
19:22 ruling.
19:23 So a lot of this has nothing to do with any of that.
19:26 And you have to kind of cut through the noise and figure out what exactly is going on here.
19:30 Is there any risk to Trump attacking the judge here?
19:33 I mean, he was late going into the courtroom today because he was going off on the judge
19:37 and the attorney general.
19:39 Are there consequences he could face for that?
19:40 I think the first risk he has is if the one person that matters in the courtroom and what
19:44 they think is going to be that judge, that's the judge who's going to decide his financial
19:49 future.
19:50 So if there's one person he doesn't want to get on the wrong side of, it's that judge.
19:53 I think that's the first issue right there.
19:54 Second, if these public comments he's making start spilling over into the realm of threats
20:00 or something else that's even close to threat, he's then going to have to answer to the judges
20:04 in his criminal cases.
20:06 We have Judge Chutkan who has warned him repeatedly about these kind of public inflammatory statements.
20:11 He has two other criminal cases where he is out on pretrial release.
20:16 So I think with those three cases, if these inflammatory statements continue, I think
20:21 you're not, I would not be surprised to see prosecutors raise those to those judges.
20:25 And again, if he raises other issues as far as inflammatory statements, all of these be
20:30 read together by a judge.
20:31 And those prosecutors will point to statements he's made by January 6th, statements he's
20:35 made in this Manassas case, statements he's made about the documents case, and all those
20:39 together are going to paint a damning picture that down the road, judges will use against
20:43 him.
20:44 What do you think?
20:45 I agree with that.
20:46 But I think what he's doing is really pressing the First Amendment envelope and pressing
20:51 the envelope of where he can go, as you say, in these other cases to make statements that's
20:55 going to push a judge to issue a gag order.
20:58 And I think in some measure, if he gets a gag order, that even helps him more because
21:03 then it just says it's more election interference.
21:05 That's what he thinks.
21:06 That's what he thinks.
21:07 And if he doesn't get the gag order, he still gets to get out there and makes a statement
21:10 on the victim.
21:12 And this is all about election interference, which is what his campaign really is.
21:16 I mean, that's what he's really promoting at the time.
21:19 Yeah.
21:20 David Kelly, Tim Adaio, Ganga Williams, thank you both for bringing that legal expertise.
21:24 We're going to need it a lot, apparently.
21:26 Thank you.
21:27 Also coming up here on The Source, Cassidy Hutchinson here in studio tonight as Trump's
21:32 former chief of staff has given his strongest rebuke of the ex-president yet.
21:38 Exclusive new reporting tonight from CNN's Jake Tapper.
21:41 The most scathing rebuke yet that we have seen from John Kelly, of course, Trump's longest
21:46 serving chief of staff, who described Donald Trump is this, and I'm quoting John Kelly
21:50 now, "A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform or are shot down
21:55 or seriously wounded in combat or spend years being tortured as POWs are all suckers because
22:01 there is nothing in it for them.
22:03 A person who is not truthful regarding his position on the protection of unborn life,
22:08 on women, on minorities, on evangelical Christians, on Jews, and on working men and women.
22:14 A person that has no idea what America stands for and no idea what America is all about.
22:19 A person that has nothing but contempt for our democratic institutions, our constitution,
22:25 and the rule of law.
22:26 There is nothing more that can be said.
22:29 God help us."
22:30 That statement from John Kelly coming just days after the former Trump White House aide,
22:34 Cassidy Hutchinson, called Trump the quote, "most grave threat to American democracy."
22:39 Her new memoir, Enough, delves into the why.
22:41 Of course, she saw it all up close and she joins me now.
22:45 What do you make when you hear, Cassidy, and thank you for being here, when you hear what
22:49 John Kelly, I mean, he was chief of staff before you were there, but when you hear him
22:53 coming out, the most scathing criticism we've heard him of Trump, and he's criticized Trump,
22:59 what do you make of what that is?
23:01 Well, the first thing I'd say to that, Kaitlin, is when you have people like General Kelly,
23:07 who were close to the former president in the inner circle, coming out with statements
23:12 as scathing as the one that he came out with today, and I touched on that, the Atlantic
23:16 story in my book as well, because I was on the plane with the former president when that
23:23 story came out, and the president was not happy about it, but when you have people that
23:27 are in, as part of his former circle, we need to believe them.
23:31 It's not just me, it's not just General Kelly, but I will say with General Kelly, he is a
23:35 man that has served his country in uniform, just like General Milley or Secretary Esper.
23:41 Donald Trump has no bounds, he does not have any limitations to who he is going to criticize,
23:46 and we need to listen to the people, especially men like John Kelly, when they come out and
23:50 say how dangerous he is.
23:51 Yeah, you were, that was a fascinating passage in here, because you were on the plane when,
23:55 the word that the story was breaking, and Mark Meadows, your boss, was panicking over
23:59 that, and you say that when you went to Trump, and you were speaking about what's at the
24:03 heart of this, which is that he canceled a visit to a cemetery where American soldiers
24:07 are buried, because it was windy and he didn't want his hair to get messed up, and you said
24:12 that he was so upset about the story, you said it was a side of the president that most
24:15 Americans never have the opportunity to see, sympathetic, concerned, and apprehensive,
24:21 it's a side that the media doesn't see or doesn't report, that he keeps well disguised,
24:25 which you said you feared was because he didn't want to appear weak, but it's a side of him
24:28 that exists.
24:30 What do you make of what your experience was then, and him denying that this happened,
24:34 and someone like John Kelly, who was there with him, saying tonight, actually, that is
24:39 true, it did happen, he did say those comments.
24:41 Well, two things on that, Kaitlin.
24:43 That night, very specific and jarring memory for me, too, because on one hand, I did feel
24:50 bad for him, for the former president, for Mr. Trump, because I, at the time, felt that
24:56 maybe there is some nuggets of untruth in it, things that aren't true in this.
25:01 And he was sort of desperate to get something on the record.
25:05 He had Bobby Engel, his former lead Secret Service detail, and Tony Ornato, looking through
25:10 the emails, trying to find some scrap of any communication that they had to say that, that
25:16 story would be false.
25:17 But the president was beside himself, and I, like, looking back now with the hindsight
25:21 that I have, especially in conjunction with General Kelly's statement today, again, it
25:26 just goes, it goes without saying that he is a man that is overly consumed with his
25:30 ego and how he appears to be in the public eye.
25:34 He doesn't want to look weak, but he's also not a man of the people, as he claims to be.
25:39 When you look at that, and someone like John Kelly, you talked about having respect for
25:43 the armed services, when you hear what General Milley said on Friday, and I know, obviously,
25:47 General Milley was there when you were there, he called Trump a wannabe dictator.
25:51 Do you agree that Trump is a wannabe dictator?
25:55 You know, I will leave it to the military experts to define whether he is a wannabe
26:00 dictator, but what I will say is Donald Trump has no bounds.
26:05 He has no respect for our Constitution.
26:06 He has no respect for our institutions.
26:09 We saw that on January 6th.
26:10 We saw that throughout his, throughout his presidency.
26:13 And we've seen that since he left the Oval Office, the way that he's conducted himself
26:17 and the way that he has presented a potential second term plan.
26:21 You know, God forbid we get to that point.
26:25 But he is not somebody that respects our rule of law, and respecting our rule of law is
26:30 the most fundamental thing that you need to respect to run for president.
26:35 If he got a second term and someone gets an offer to go work in the White House, obviously
26:40 those are big jobs that anyone would jump at, many people have obviously, what would
26:44 you say to people who may consider working for him?
26:49 That's tricky because on one hand I would hope that there would be people that had,
27:01 that took into account ethics and morals, and that would go work in the executive branch
27:06 to serve the country.
27:09 But on the other hand, I think I'd be doing a disservice to those people by not warning
27:13 them of the dangers.
27:14 And you know, I feel I'm also sitting here sort of hypothesizing a doomsday scenario,
27:20 in my opinion, which would be that he is the Republican nominee and could potentially beat
27:25 President Biden.
27:27 I think that every American right now has an obligation to make sure that that doesn't
27:31 happen.
27:32 Because one of the things that scares me the most about a second Trump term is who would
27:36 be surrounding him.
27:37 I don't know who was surrounding him at the end of the first term.
27:40 And I don't have a reason to believe that there would be better people around him than
27:45 that.
27:46 What drove you to go and work for him?
27:49 I mean, you just, you write about how your experience before, you know, when you went
27:53 in there, you adored him, you certainly liked him.
27:56 And what your experience is now when you're reflecting on that?
28:00 As part of the reason I wanted to write the book, too, because it was not a linear journey.
28:05 I, looking back now, and I tried to write the book in real time as I experienced the
28:11 events in real time, intentionally, because I wanted the readers to understand that there
28:17 were people on the inside.
28:18 Now, people can determine whether I'm bad or good.
28:22 You know, I'm not, I try not to assign adjectives to anybody.
28:25 But I think it's important for readers to understand that not everybody is there just
28:29 to execute Donald J. Trump's agenda.
28:32 People are there to serve the administration, to serve the country.
28:36 And that's what drew me to public service in the first place.
28:39 And I had a phenomenal opportunity to serve in the Trump administration.
28:43 And I am, and what I was, and I am a Republican.
28:47 But along the way, there's this dissonance that happened in me where I began to slowly
28:53 recognize that the MAGA, the Trump Republican agenda, is so far gone from what the original,
29:00 what has been the Republican agenda.
29:03 So in writing this book, I do my best to explain my journey as somebody who was on the inside,
29:09 who was privy to a lot of information, and how I got to this point today.
29:14 And you work for Mark Meadows.
29:16 And I think, you know, we've talked about senior officials that we hear from all the
29:18 time, or former Trump officials who are speaking out about him.
29:21 We never hear from Mark Meadows except for when he's testifying.
29:23 I mean, what do you think is going on with him?
29:26 You know, it's hard to say, Caitlin.
29:30 It's difficult to speculate because he has been so quiet.
29:33 You know, the, what I will say about Mark is he could follow in the footsteps of his
29:40 predecessors, specifically pertinent to our conversation, General Kelly.
29:47 Mark has had a lot of opportunities to do the right thing, and what I define as the
29:51 right thing, which is to come forward with the information that you know.
29:56 And perhaps he has, in some instances, maybe he has worked with Jack Smith a little bit.
30:01 Doesn't look like that in Georgia.
30:04 But Mark Meadows swore an oath to defend and protect the United States of America, not
30:09 to protect Donald John Trump.
30:12 And you know, I hope that Mark has that hindsight, especially as we enter this next election
30:17 year because Donald Trump poses a grave danger to our institutions.
30:22 He's disputed some of what you said.
30:24 I know you responded to that last week and you said, well, I have testified about my
30:28 experience.
30:29 He should testify about his, if that's it.
30:31 If he testified against Donald Trump, how damaging do you think it would be for the
30:35 former president?
30:37 How much does he know?
30:38 If he testifies honestly, I think, if Mark were to testify honestly, which I would assume
30:45 that he would, and he does have great legal counsel, and it appears that he's listened
30:50 to them, although I'm taking bits and pieces of news reports.
30:56 It's difficult to speculate on a bigger level, but I would think that Mark was in the room
31:04 way more than I was, and Mark knows way more than I do.
31:09 Whether the information I have was incriminating in any form, I don't know.
31:14 That's to be told.
31:16 But if the Justice Department follows the leads, all roads lead back to Mark Meadows,
31:21 and I would hope that Mark would go in and honor his oath because this is bigger than
31:26 Donald Trump.
31:27 This is bigger than the moment we're in.
31:29 He needs to protect and defend the United States.
31:32 All roads lead back to Mark Meadows.
31:34 Cassidy, you're going to stick around with us?
31:35 We'll be back in just a moment with Alyssa Farragriffin, who, of course, you, is very
31:40 intertwined in your experience.
31:42 We have more up next on The Breaking News.
31:43 We'll speak to Cassidy and Alyssa about that.
31:46 As we are now learning about what McCarthy is going to be doing, spending the next 48
31:49 hours fighting for his job.
31:51 Congressman Matt Gaetz filing paperwork tonight to set a new vote for Speaker in motion.
31:56 Will Democrats help save his job?
31:58 And if not McCarthy, which Republican would lead the conference?
32:01 That's next.
32:03 I'm back now with more on our breaking news tonight as Kevin McCarthy's job as House Speaker
32:08 is now in serious jeopardy after Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz triggered a vote to
32:13 oust him from power just a few moments ago.
32:15 Cassidy Hutchinson is back here with me, along with former Trump White House Communications
32:19 Director Alyssa Farragriffin.
32:21 Both of you have worked on the Hills.
32:22 You're kind of the perfect people to talk about this with.
32:25 But you write in your book, Cassidy, about the relationship between Kevin McCarthy and
32:29 Matt Gaetz.
32:30 Clearly, neither one of them are big fans of one another.
32:32 I mean, what do you make of how all of this potentially ends?
32:35 Yeah, I would love to say that I didn't see this coming.
32:42 It's been a long time coming.
32:43 I mean, Kevin's been the natural, Kevin was the natural pick for Speaker for a long time.
32:49 Matt and Kevin clearly have a deep-rooted dislike of each other.
32:55 It's not surprising, although I will say it's disappointing that Matt is putting the needs
33:01 of Americans below his own ego.
33:05 There's shocking images coming out of Capitol Hill tonight where he is completely swarmed
33:08 by photographers.
33:09 And that's exactly what Matt wants out of this.
33:12 Matt doesn't want to lead an effective government.
33:14 If he did, then he'd be working on how to avert another government shutdown in 44 days.
33:19 This is Matt's moment in the spotlight, and that's not what these institutions are for.
33:22 These institutions are meant to survive, and we need to elect people who take their oaths
33:26 seriously.
33:27 And, Alyssa, you also worked for Mark Meadows.
33:29 I mean, this was the House Freedom Caucus at the time, who talked about being fiscally
33:32 responsible on the Hill.
33:34 You heard from Tim Burchett, who says that for him, this is a policy issue, that he's
33:38 tired of governing the way that they are.
33:40 And he's a yes to Alison McCarthy.
33:41 You know, and it may be for Tim Burchett, but the reality is this.
33:45 The number is 218 that you have to reach.
33:46 I'm not sure that there's anyone other than Kevin McCarthy who could maybe get that, other
33:50 than maybe Steve Scalise.
33:52 And he's going to run into, exactly as Cassidy said, the same issue in about 45 days when
33:56 this government funding bill runs out.
33:58 I think it's deeply unserious.
33:59 Listen, I think McCarthy and Matt Gaetz have had deep-seated dislike for one another.
34:04 I think that is genuinely what's driving this.
34:07 There are some more common-sense, pragmatic conservatives who genuinely want to go through
34:11 the full appropriations process.
34:13 A legitimate thing to do, but not at the risk of shutting down the government, you know,
34:17 not get military members their benefits, not funding CBP and Border Patrol.
34:22 And it ends up contradicting Republicans' own positions, what they're trying to do here.
34:25 I guess, and you worked with McCarthy so closely when you were in the White House.
34:29 You know, you write in your book about how, and you testified that he called you on January
34:32 6th to get a message that Trump should not come to the Capitol.
34:36 What's your sense of how he's handling this tonight?
34:38 I mean, obviously it was a long time coming, but how do you think he's handling the fact
34:42 that he might have to get Democrats to save his job?
34:45 You know, I wouldn't think that it would be the worst thing for this Congress if he did
34:50 get some Democrats on his side.
34:51 But look, Kaitlan, Kevin sort of burned bridges on both sides.
34:56 He's burned bridges with Republicans, as we've seen since he became Speaker.
35:00 And Democrats also don't trust him.
35:02 So you know, is there an alternative to Kevin McCarthy?
35:05 I don't know.
35:06 I think there are several very pragmatic members of Congress, but that just wouldn't have a
35:11 chance at winning the Speakership because they don't either have the name recognition
35:15 or they're not going to get that far right flank that Kevin McCarthy has tried to appease
35:20 at points, but in turn burned Democrats.
35:24 People see him as a deeply untrustworthy person right now, and I think that if he were to
35:28 play this right, he could potentially have a moment where he could unify this Congress
35:34 for the rest of this Congress.
35:36 As much as this next election is a referendum on the executive branch in the White House,
35:40 it's also a referendum on Congress and who we elect to Congress.
35:44 We need to focus on electing serious people, and right now we don't have serious people
35:47 in that body.
35:48 Yeah, I mean, you're smiling.
35:49 Do you?
35:50 Is that what that's exactly right?
35:51 I mean, the reality is this.
35:53 Democrats are probably going to go with the enemy that they know, which is Kevin McCarthy.
35:57 I think ultimately this is going to come to a vote where some Democrats vote with most
36:00 Republicans to table it and move on, meaning they just kind of bypass any kind of a motion
36:05 to vacate vote, because the reality is you can't say that you want an open floor process.
36:09 You want a full appropriations process.
36:11 You want an impeachment inquiry into Joe Biden, but we're also going to potentially shut down
36:14 the government and go through multiple rounds to elect a speaker.
36:16 It is so unserious.
36:17 It's about, Jake Tapper said it well, Fox News clicks, getting on TV, and self-aggrandizing.
36:22 Just run the government.
36:23 Well, it's also like the worst job on planet Earth right now if you have 45 days before
36:27 your next fight.
36:28 Elisabeth Griffin, Cassidy Hutchinson, thank you for coming in.
36:30 Your first interview on The Source since your book came out.
36:32 Thank you for joining us.
36:33 Thank you, Kaylen.
36:34 Thank you.
36:35 Thank you.
36:36 Thank you.
36:37 Thank you.
36:38 Thank you.
36:39 Thank you.
36:40 Thank you.
36:41 Thank you.
36:42 Thank you.
36:43 Thank you.
36:44 Thank you.
36:45 Thank you.
36:46 Thank you.
36:47 Thank you.
36:48 Thank you.
36:49 I'm going to be a little bit more general.
36:50 I would like to start with a quick overview of the process of getting a vote on the next
36:51 election.
36:52 We're going to have a number of different states, and we're going to be looking at
36:53 a number of different states.
36:54 I'm going to start with Mexico, where the state of Mexico is going to be elected.
36:55 The state of Mexico is going to be elected on November 6th.
36:56 So, the state of Mexico is going to be elected on November 6th.
36:57 And then, the state of Argentina is going to be elected on November 6th.
37:21 And then, the state of Argentina is going to be elected on November 6th.
37:43 And then, the state of Argentina is going to be elected on November 6th.
38:10 And then, the state of Argentina is going to be elected on November 6th.
38:37 And then, the state of Argentina is going to be elected on November 6th.
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