Street Debate: Let's talk about sex
In this week's Street Debate we are in Kigali, Rwanda, where we talk about sex! This is a topic that is not spoken about openly on the African continent. Young Africans from different corners of the continent, give us an insight on the situation there regarding sex and sexual health today. How is sex spoken about and why is fear often behind it?
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00:00 Hello and welcome back to the 77%.
00:02 This week we are in the beautiful city of Kigali
00:05 and we're here to talk about something
00:06 that is very rarely discussed in the African public spaces
00:10 and that is sex.
00:11 And so we're here to try and find out
00:13 is it time that we rethink how we have conversations
00:16 around sex and sexuality?
00:17 Well, I have some people here
00:18 who are going to help me answer that question
00:20 and I want to start with a broad question for everyone.
00:23 Do you remember your first introduction to sex education?
00:26 How was that like?
00:27 The first introduction was being shown how to wear a pad
00:31 because apparently people assumed
00:33 I had started menstruating.
00:35 And now I was told to be very careful
00:37 because it seems it's possible
00:39 to have a human being after that.
00:40 Yeah.
00:41 Okay, Tolo, let's hear from you.
00:42 What about you?
00:43 I'm South African, so in SA,
00:45 mainly it was due to the HIV and AIDS pandemic.
00:48 So everything was against that.
00:50 It was trying to teach us about sex,
00:52 but in relation to this is what might happen to you.
00:55 So all I ever saw were campaigns on TV at school.
00:58 So my idea of sex was like,
00:59 eventually you have like these little creepy things
01:01 that get into your blood and suck you dry.
01:04 Oh my gosh, that sounds very scary.
01:06 It's a piece of, you're laughing.
01:08 Was it the same for you in Botswana?
01:09 My first interaction with the idea of sex sexuality
01:12 was actually at home.
01:13 The beginning of a term, mom asked for our school bags
01:16 and we think she's checking the books,
01:18 making sure everything's ready for the new school term.
01:20 We get our bags back, we find condoms, right?
01:23 We're shocked, we're like, what are these?
01:25 That's when we initiated the conversation.
01:27 My mother initiated the conversation on sex and protection
01:31 and obviously coming from Botswana, HIV.
01:34 So it sounds like it's a lot of fear-based education.
01:38 Ivy, I'm gonna put you on the spot here
01:39 because your mom, Elizabeth, just said what her experience was.
01:42 Did she give you your first introduction to sex education?
01:45 Yeah, actually, regarding how you relate to boys,
01:48 how you relate to men, you know,
01:51 how you carry yourself in your teen years.
01:54 Yeah, and it is the reason why I am the lady who I am today.
01:57 Yeah, I actually wanna hear from Emma
01:59 because she is, we call them shangazis here,
02:01 but it's actually a sex educator in a traditional setup.
02:04 Is this how people get introduced to sex in Rwanda?
02:08 It's a little bit different
02:09 because when I was growing up,
02:11 I got the first introduction when I was really young,
02:14 like at seven years old.
02:18 And that's when we were with other girls,
02:22 especially domestic girls.
02:24 If you have one at home,
02:25 and they start talking about,
02:28 especially the Rabia inongashen.
02:30 So this is a culture that starts very early
02:32 in Rwandan culture,
02:33 and that's where you start learning about sexuality.
02:37 It doesn't happen very much these days,
02:41 but yeah, you can be introduced to really sexuality
02:46 as young as seven.
02:47 Okay, so Amina, let me come to you briefly
02:49 because we're seeing that there's various ways
02:51 that people got into contact with the information about sex,
02:54 and not just sex, but also sexuality.
02:56 But why is it important
02:57 to have something more comprehensive?
02:59 One of the things that we've been able to see
03:02 is how adolescents have inadequate information
03:06 about sexual reproductive health.
03:07 For example, there are some who have told us,
03:10 like if you do unprotected sex at the nighttime,
03:15 you're not going to, at daytime,
03:17 you're not going to get pregnant.
03:18 So they do have plenty myths
03:22 about sexual reproductive health.
03:25 And if we don't equip them with the right information,
03:27 this is going to be something
03:28 that is going to be transferred even to others.
03:31 Okay, Emma, I'm just wondering the role of culture here.
03:36 What can we do to integrate some of these cultural practices
03:39 into sex education?
03:40 I feel like the Rwandan culture
03:43 used to encourage people to talk about sex.
03:46 We had people who were supposed to teach you about sex,
03:51 like your aunties or peers.
03:56 When Christianity came in Rwanda,
03:59 we started to learn that it's a sin.
04:01 So kind of sexuality and things related,
04:04 when you are not yet married, it's a sin.
04:07 Why are you interested?
04:08 Why are you talking about sex?
04:10 I want to come back to you, Tsolo,
04:11 because earlier you had said something interesting to me
04:13 about how sex education is taught,
04:15 and it's different for men and women,
04:17 or girls and boys in your culture.
04:19 Back home, the culture I come from,
04:20 part of the Xhosa culture,
04:22 you'll have young boys, they go off to the mountain,
04:25 they get circumcised, and they're taught
04:27 all of these ideas of what it means to be a man.
04:29 And one of the first things that they're expected to do
04:31 when they return back home
04:32 is to have a girlfriend and to sleep with her.
04:34 It's sort of like a transfer of energy that you have to do
04:37 that kind of welcomes you into manhood.
04:39 However, on the other end, when you have young girls
04:41 like myself, you're expected to remain a virgin
04:44 for as long as you can.
04:45 You have to keep it together.
04:47 You have to remain pure.
04:48 However, we live in the same society.
04:50 The same guy that you're expecting to go out there
04:52 and get girls, I'm the same girl
04:55 that's expected to be gotten,
04:57 and she's also expected to keep it together.
04:59 - Ivy, I want to come to you a little bit,
05:01 because I wonder if this pressure for a woman
05:04 to be preserved still exists in your generation.
05:08 - Actually, in Kenya,
05:10 when you get in a relationship with a guy,
05:12 or you are in the talking stages with a guy,
05:15 one of the few questions that they will ask you is,
05:17 "What is your body count?"
05:19 If I say my body count is five,
05:21 then they're like, "Damn, you have been passed around
05:24 "so much."
05:25 - It's the number of people.
05:26 - Yeah, and the man--
05:27 - Like you're an athlete, and you're talking to people.
05:28 - Yeah, and the man asking you that
05:30 has probably lost his count.
05:32 But you, when you say five, it is outrageous.
05:35 - Your mom is--
05:36 - You know--
05:37 - I believe what you're saying.
05:38 - You know, it is so--
05:39 - About the people you have slept with,
05:42 in your talking stages, what business?
05:45 I may not even like you, man.
05:46 Like, how can I--
05:47 - According to the man, I should be preserved, you know?
05:52 I should be in my bubble, be in my circle,
05:55 not have sexual relations.
05:56 But him, he is poking everywhere, you know?
06:01 He is everywhere, and it is not an issue.
06:04 - So you had a different viewpoint, right?
06:07 - Yeah, I have a little bit of a different experience
06:10 in how things are changing amongst young people
06:13 in my space.
06:14 When they're talking about their sexual encounters,
06:16 everyone works for their own orgasm, right?
06:19 I think that going along, it shows me that women
06:23 are taking control of their own sexual liberty.
06:28 And I think what then becomes problematic is,
06:31 on our side as the gents, right?
06:33 A lot of gents then become intimidated
06:35 by seeing a young lady who's so in touch
06:38 with their sexual side, right?
06:42 And who's pursuing their sexual liberties
06:45 as freely as we are as gents, right?
06:47 - By the way, we're speaking strictly here
06:49 from a heterosexual point of view.
06:51 I'd like to hear some solutions, some ideas you have
06:54 on how we could make sex, not a conversation
06:57 that's shrouded in mystery and secrecy,
07:00 but more open and in a healthy way.
07:02 - First, we need to get the shame off sex.
07:06 It is normal.
07:07 We need to start with the parents
07:09 and train them to bring up their children
07:14 in a way that they are comfortable and happy
07:16 with whoever they are, with their bodies.
07:19 - All right, and finally, Tsefiso?
07:22 - See, young people are already having conversations
07:24 on sex and sexuality with other peers.
07:27 For example, at our university campus,
07:30 we've created a space called Baraza
07:32 where we gather to have conversation
07:35 on topics that are kind of controversial.
07:39 And we've had conversations around homosexuality,
07:42 for example, and we've talked about women's pursuit
07:45 of their sexual liberties within these Baraza
07:47 and what that means in the African context, right?
07:50 And guys have been free enough to open up
07:54 about some of their misconceptions about that as well
07:57 and learn and learn, relearn as well.
08:00 - Wow, I love that.
08:01 That's a great place to wrap up this debate.
08:03 The sun is setting.
08:04 We have a lot to think about.
08:05 I asked earlier, should we rethink how, where,
08:08 and even who talks about sex on this continent?
08:10 That's a resounding yes, if you ask me.
08:13 Thank you for watching.
08:14 (upbeat music)
08:17 [MUSIC PLAYING]
08:20 You