Morning Joe [6AM] 9_30_2023 - BREAKING NEWS Today Sep 30, 2023
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00:00 >> Gentlemen, you'll have your turn.
00:01 >> One of the challenges- >> So listen up.
00:02 >> We should have a look- >> We should have a debate between the big
00:03 big business in China.
00:04 Everybody knows that.
00:05 >> If I may address- >> Let's focus on holding Joe Biden accountable.
00:06 That's what we need to be focusing on.
00:07 >> I actually agree with Ron DeSantis.
00:08 >> Can everybody speak at the same time?
00:09 >> So if you couldn't understand any of that, you were not alone.
00:10 The Republican candidates on stage at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, mostly focused
00:11 on attacking each other rather than the big big business in China.
00:12 >> I'm not going to be able to do that.
00:13 I'm not going to be able to do that.
00:14 >> I'm not going to be able to do that.
00:15 >> I'm not going to be able to do that.
00:16 >> I'm not going to be able to do that.
00:32 >> So, Willie, the debate, we're going to get to it and play more of the clips, but
00:54 just overall- >> A mess.
00:56 >> I had one Republican leader, one contributor, one of everything after another, after another.
01:06 They were texting and calling, all saying the same thing.
01:10 What a mess.
01:12 What an embarrassment.
01:13 What a disaster.
01:15 >> It was.
01:16 It was a lot of what we just showed in that clip, talking over each other, the moderators
01:19 having lost control of things, some very cringey moments, awkward moments.
01:24 Nikki Haley, if you wanted to pick somebody, she had several adult moments.
01:29 But for the most part, you're watching and thinking, wow, this is, as some people put
01:34 it, the kids' table, where they're all fighting for second place, as Donald Trump sits comfortably
01:39 at home.
01:40 And you watch that, you watch it, and you ask yourself, why would Donald Trump ever
01:43 participate in that debate?
01:45 With the lead he has, why would he step into that fight?
01:49 And I think a lot of people, the analysis, you're kind of going through the usual motions
01:53 of a debate, like who won, who lost, and what should we expect tonight?
01:57 I guess the only question is, does any of it really matter?
02:00 Some things could change.
02:01 Of course, we've got four major federal indictments, 91 felony charges against the president.
02:06 I guess some people are trying to hang around long enough to see if that impacts Donald
02:10 Trump.
02:11 But it's hard to say.
02:12 Anybody won last night?
02:13 Did anybody stand out?
02:14 >> Yeah.
02:15 >> I don't know.
02:16 We all watched.
02:17 And I guess you could say Nikki Haley did pretty well.
02:18 Chris Christie, again, the only one going after Donald Trump.
02:21 He'll be on our show again this morning.
02:23 I did note that one thing didn't come up.
02:26 The former president of the United States called, effectively suggested, I should say,
02:30 for the execution of General Milley.
02:33 And that didn't come up at the debate.
02:35 I'd be curious to hear what all those candidates think about that.
02:38 >> Yeah, it didn't come up, wasn't asked.
02:42 But that's really part of the course.
02:44 >> Well, that's what Molly Jongfast was talking about yesterday, where we, the media has to
02:50 cover the stories that are news.
02:53 >> Right.
02:54 >> And the fact that that wasn't asked, or the massive fraud liability that went down
03:00 yesterday, I mean, this is one universe versus another that actually lives on facts.
03:07 These candidates weren't asked about anything.
03:10 >> Well, I mean, the fact, yeah, I mean, you had the Milley basically invitation to assassinate.
03:18 You had Donald Trump looking like he was gonna get shut down from doing business in the state
03:24 of New York.
03:26 And you had Donald Trump also saying that he was going to shut down NBC and Comcast
03:32 and Jonathan Lemire.
03:33 That's something that those two really extreme things that he put on Truth Social were what
03:41 the Wall Street Journal editorial page correctly brought to attention.
03:45 >> Guys, guys, gals, if we keep going in this direction, this guy who just said these things
03:52 is gonna be your nominee.
03:53 >> They're gonna step right over you all.
03:54 >> And if he's your nominee, there's a reason why the people in Biden world think they're
04:00 gonna win.
04:02 And you looked on that stage and everybody yelling at each other last night.
04:06 I do think that Nikki Haley probably stood out among the best.
04:14 But it's so split up, it's just like 2016.
04:17 They're splitting themselves up, 5% here, 7% there, 9% there.
04:24 And for people who say it doesn't make a difference whether it's split or not, there's CBS, you
04:31 go, Paul, that I'm sure you're aware of.
04:33 I don't know if everybody watching is.
04:36 But in the early states, Iowa and New Hampshire, in both states, you have about 75% of the
04:42 voters who say they're open to voting for somebody other than Donald Trump.
04:48 That they're looking, and a large chunk of them, about a third in each of those states
04:53 are saying they will not vote for Donald Trump.
04:55 So there's an opportunity.
04:58 Last night was another blown chance to get those people united behind somebody that can
05:03 actually beat the guy who says the chairman of the Joint Chiefs needs to be assassinated.
05:09 >> Yeah, last night was chaotic, it was messy, it was sloppy.
05:12 A lot of major topics were not addressed.
05:14 Vivek Ramaswamy, unknowingly or not, had the line of the night where he thanked someone
05:18 for speaking while he was interrupting.
05:22 Because that's what it was, because everyone was just shouting at the other.
05:25 And it was hard at times even just to hear what anyone was saying last night.
05:28 And certainly there was no real breakthrough moment.
05:31 There were some cringy moments, some pretty bad one-liners we can get to later.
05:35 But there is, to your point, Joe, about the polls, there's still this appetite, seemingly,
05:40 to have someone else step forward to be the Trump alternative.
05:43 And for a long time, it was perceived to be Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida.
05:47 And his campaign has been in a free fall.
05:49 And there was nothing last night, he didn't fare poorly, but he also didn't do all that
05:53 well.
05:54 There was nothing last night to suggest that his slide is gonna stop him.
05:57 There is some chatter among Republican donors right now that maybe Nikki Haley could be
06:01 that person, in part because in the head-to-head polls, and we're very early, but in the head-to-head
06:05 polling, she fares the best against President Biden.
06:08 So maybe she would be that choice, and she has done pretty well in these debates.
06:12 I'd argue a little better in the first one than last night, but she is sort of the adult
06:16 in the room.
06:17 But the question is, with Trump's lead so big, are Republican donors really gonna throw
06:21 their money at Haley right now if potentially it's a waste?
06:24 That's gonna be the choice here.
06:25 Do we see some of these candidates drop out potentially to give Haley a chance to be the
06:31 alternative?
06:32 At least right now, no one is.
06:34 And no one is.
06:35 And the more the candidates stay in, the more divided it gets, the better.
06:38 Of course it is for Donald Trump.
06:40 Yeah, and Elise Jordan, as far as the lines of the night go, I've gotta say Nikki Haley,
06:46 borrowing from Happy Gilmore, was a great move after Vivek's answer, and basically uses
06:53 the Happy Gilmore line, "Every time you talk, I feel a little more dumb.
06:59 You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
07:04 That's basically what she did.
07:06 So let's give her props at least for, you know, borrowing from Happy Gilmore.
07:12 No, I mean, Governor Haley had the best sense of reading the room, actually speaking and
07:19 following the flow of where the arguments were going, answering questions than any other
07:24 candidate on stage.
07:25 And I think that's where some of the other candidates just really fell flat, because
07:29 they stuck to their rehearsed lines, and the moment might not have been there.
07:34 The timing was off.
07:37 Some of the more uncomfortable exchanges, I just, I really hope that Mike Pence's line
07:42 about his wife was not preplanned just because it was so incredibly awkward.
07:47 I just didn't need to know about his life with his wife to say that was a bit of a distraction.
07:57 But you know, Nikki Haley really emerged somewhat the winner of a very weak night overall.
08:04 And would it be in the Republican Party's best sense to coalesce around one candidate
08:09 and for donors to get behind one candidate if they do not support Donald Trump?
08:13 Yes.
08:14 Is that going to happen?
08:15 I doubt that that common sense will take hold.
08:18 Well, the thing that's more troubling is neither the candidates nor anybody in that room addressed
08:24 the many elephants in the room.
08:26 Here's that moment with Nikki Haley and Vivek Ramaswamy in an exchange that started when
08:31 the businessman was asked about having a TikTok account.
08:36 Then I want to get to Charlie on the other side about this.
08:38 Take a look.
08:40 So the answer is I have a radical idea for the Republican Party.
08:44 We need to win elections.
08:46 And part of how we win elections is reaching the next generation of young Americans where
08:51 they are.
08:52 So when I get into office, I've been very clear.
08:54 Kids under the age of social, under the age of 16, should not be using addictive social
08:59 media.
09:00 We're not really going to ever get to declaring independence from China, which I favor if
09:04 we actually win.
09:05 This is infuriating because TikTok is one of the most dangerous social media apps that
09:11 we could have.
09:12 And what you've got, I honestly, every time I hear you, I feel a little bit dumber for
09:15 what you say, because I can't believe they hear you've got a TikTok situation.
09:21 What they're doing is these 150 million people are on TikTok.
09:25 That means they can get your contacts, they can get your financial information, they can
09:29 get your emails, they can just say messages.
09:31 This is important.
09:32 This is very important for our party.
09:33 What they're doing is very important.
09:34 You've got a new China.
09:35 Don't make medicine in China, not America.
09:36 Excuse me.
09:37 You're not wanting kids to go and get on the social media.
09:44 That's dangerous for all of us.
09:45 You and you were in business with the Chinese that gave Hunter Biden five million dollars.
09:49 We can't trust you.
09:51 We can't trust you.
09:53 You got to love that.
09:54 That VVACs logic.
09:57 I'm going to ban moonshine when I become president of the United States, but I'm going to drink
10:03 this jug of moonshine right here because it's going to help me relate to the kids a little
10:08 bit better.
10:10 Coming up, Donald Trump continues his war on windmills.
10:14 Really drive him crazy and seemed confused about who he ran against in 2016 and who he's
10:21 running against this year.
10:23 And there has only been listen to this one such whale killed off the coast of South Carolina
10:29 in the last 50 years.
10:31 But on the other hand, their windmills are causing whales to die in numbers never seen
10:35 before.
10:36 Nobody does anything about that.
10:37 They're washing up a show.
10:39 I saw it this weekend.
10:40 Three of them came up.
10:41 They wouldn't you wouldn't see it once a year.
10:44 Now they're coming up on a weekly basis.
10:47 The windmills are driving them crazy.
10:49 They're driving.
10:50 They're driving the whales.
10:53 I think a little baddie and they're washing up on shore at levels never seen before.
10:58 And they want to stop your boats one in 50 years.
11:00 Can you imagine that?
11:01 We have the former president who seems to be getting a little bit, I don't know, confused
11:08 sometimes about who he's talking about, what era we're in, whether we have fought World
11:14 War One or World War Two, we're headed into World War Three.
11:18 Seems like he's a little bit, I don't know, off center.
11:21 The whales and the windmills, that was even for him a real tour de force.
11:25 We can talk more about that.
11:26 But Donald Trump has been back on the campaign trail.
11:29 He was in South Carolina talking to a rally, about 400 people in Somerville, his first
11:33 event in that state since July.
11:36 During a speech that lasted about 40 minutes, Trump talked about the 2016 presidential race
11:42 and appeared to confuse his then opponent, Jeb Bush, with former President George W.
11:47 Bush.
11:49 You know the beauty was, when I came here, everyone thought Bush was going to win.
11:53 And then they took a poll and they found out Trump was up by about 50 points.
11:56 Everyone said, what's going on right here?
11:58 They thought Bush, because Bush supposedly was a military person.
12:00 Great.
12:01 You know what he was a military?
12:02 He got us into the Middle East.
12:05 How did that work out, right?
12:07 So Jonathan LeMire, he was talking, of course, about George W. Bush, but conflated him with
12:12 Jeb Bush, who was the governor of Florida in March of 2003, when the United States went
12:17 into Iraq.
12:18 But for all the talk about Joe Biden's problems and his age and everything else, if you sit
12:22 and watch not just those clips, but the 40 minutes in South Carolina, some red flags
12:28 there.
12:29 I mean, Trump's right about the windmills and the whales.
12:30 I don't know what you're talking about.
12:31 You're on board with the argument.
12:32 Yeah, yeah.
12:33 Fact check, true on that.
12:34 No, you're right.
12:35 It's a couple things here.
12:37 First, there's a lot of discussion about President Biden's age and whether or not he seems to
12:41 be slipping at all, whether he's still up for the job.
12:44 And there was a moment last week where eyebrows were raised.
12:46 Or at the fundraiser the president had in New York City, he told the same story twice,
12:50 seemingly not remembering he had told it the first time.
12:53 That said, President Biden has been able to do the job and his record speaks for itself.
12:57 His aides are very quick to point that out.
12:59 I think we have been giving Donald Trump a pass too much because he's always sort of,
13:03 frankly, spoken like a crazy person.
13:05 And many times, if you read the transcripts of his speeches, they're very hard to follow.
13:08 And he's he's so all over the place, it's tough to pin down what he actually means.
13:11 But these red flags, these verbal missteps have only picked up in the last few weeks.
13:16 And you're right.
13:17 I mean, the windmills and whales things are nuts.
13:19 The World War Two, not from reference last week, we had this one confusing the bushes.
13:23 The list goes on and on and on.
13:26 And one does wonder, as much as polls suggest that voters don't care as much about Trump's
13:30 age than Biden's, he is only three years younger than President Biden.
13:35 And if Biden is going to be questioned about his fitness for the job, then voters should
13:38 take the same look at Trump, who has been all over the place in recent weeks and seems
13:42 to be in his social media posts reflect this to under increasing pressure and strain from
13:47 all the criminal cases.
13:48 And aides say that as well, that it is weighing on him much more than he'd like to portray.
13:52 Well, that's the real point here.
13:53 I think, Joe, for all the the I mean, the whale thing was bizarre.
13:57 He said the windmills are driving whales crazy.
14:00 So they're watching themselves up on shore.
14:02 I don't know.
14:03 Committing gas.
14:04 Right.
14:05 Yeah.
14:06 Rejecting it.
14:07 But but the point is, this is a man not only who is advancing in years, clearly, as you
14:10 watch those performances, but he's got a lot on his mind having nothing to do a lot with
14:15 whales or Jeb Bush or Obama or World War Two.
14:20 I mean, he's projecting I mean, he usually projects himself on the people that he's running
14:24 against now.
14:26 He's going out and projecting himself on whales.
14:29 So yes, Donald, it's the whales who are crazy right now.
14:33 There's a whales that are.
14:35 But think about this, then.
14:37 And it goes back to what we said yesterday, which is which is Joe Biden sitting there
14:42 playing by Marcus of Queensbury rules and going the GDP is going to rise by two point
14:48 four nine.
14:49 I mean, that's how I talk.
14:51 OK, but I'm not running for anything.
14:53 He needs to do better.
14:54 All right.
14:55 All right.
14:56 He he needs to.
14:57 He needs to start hitting Donald Trump back.
14:59 There's a reason why those polls are looking the way they are, because they all talk about
15:03 Biden being too old.
15:05 Biden needs to start talking about Trump being too old.
15:08 Listen, this is not hard to do.
15:12 He doesn't have to wait for the writers to get off the picket lines to write his material,
15:18 because everybody this is what Donald Trump thinks and what he's thought over the last
15:24 two weeks, that he ran a primary contest against George W. Bush in 2016.
15:33 And he beat him even though George W. Bush had gotten us into the Middle East.
15:40 And then he thinks alternatively that he ran the general election in 2016 against Barack
15:47 Obama.
15:48 And he said last week, nobody thought we could beat Barack Obama, but we did.
15:56 He stumbled around with Obama's name.
15:59 And then he went on to say he beat Barack Obama.
16:03 He was going to be oh, no, that he beat Barack Obama in 2020 as well.
16:10 And then, of course, on to the part about where Joe Biden was going to get us into World
16:14 War Two in 2024.
16:17 The reason why those numbers are higher and the reason why people are comparing Hunter
16:23 Biden's laptop to stealing nuclear secrets is because the Republicans have been hammering
16:32 Joe Biden over this nonstop and the White House has considered itself above the fray.
16:40 This is like Mike Dukakis in 1988 using his push lawnmower while George H.W. Bush was
16:49 going around talking about how polluted Boston Harbor was and talking about, you know, going
16:56 from one flag factory to another flag factory.
16:59 And John Meacham, by the time it was over, right, and you had Michael Dukakis go, I'm
17:06 above this.
17:07 I'm not going to respond to that.
17:09 I mean, you've written 41's biography, you know.
17:14 By the time Dukakis finally started responding to those attacks, he had lost like 20 points
17:20 in the poll.
17:21 His 20 point lead was evaporated.
17:23 And now you've got the Biden people sitting back talking Bidenomics while his son's being
17:29 trashed and while his age is being trashed.
17:32 And here you are.
17:33 I just want to repeat for you, because I know you're a historian.
17:37 I'm sure you never knew this.
17:38 Donald Trump says he ran against George W. Bush in the primary and beating ran in 2016
17:44 and ran against Barack Obama in the general election.
17:46 Nobody thought they could beat him, but he beat him, ran against Barack Obama in 2020
17:53 and beat him no matter what the press and the pundits say.
17:56 This is a guy who is terribly confused.
18:00 And again, we don't hear that so much because the Biden campaign is playing by Marcus of
18:07 Queensbury rules.
18:11 I'll say one thing, though, one of the great primary races ever would have been George
18:16 W. Bush versus Donald Trump.
18:19 That would have been a cage match.
18:20 Can you imagine?
18:21 Excuse me for cutting you off.
18:25 That would have been over in five minutes.
18:27 Like Donald Trump would have started talking and George W. Bush would have looked at him.
18:31 You would have gone.
18:32 And I'm the one that's supposed to be dumb.
18:34 What are you talking about?
18:36 And he would have guided him.
18:39 George W. Bush would have finished Donald Trump's campaign in five minutes.
18:43 But go ahead.
18:45 No, I think that, too.
18:47 I think that George W. Bush is the one Republican who could have undercut this populism.
18:55 He worried about the populism he talks about, how what happened late in his administration
19:02 helped create the conditions for this.
19:04 He's clear eyed about it.
19:06 But look, I think the thing that worries me the most is not what Trump says when he's
19:12 confused, but what he says what he says when he's not.
19:16 And there's this series of incredibly sulfurous, unconstitutional, anti-democratic assertions
19:27 that he's making about what he wants to do if, in fact, he returns to power, which is
19:33 a entirely plausible possibility.
19:37 And so the focus, it seems to me, of all of us, the task of citizenship should be what
19:45 is he saying?
19:46 What does he want to do?
19:49 And we're talking about somebody and I just we can't say this enough.
19:54 Right.
19:55 It's like the daily office.
19:56 It's like morning prayer.
19:57 We should just always say this.
20:00 There was a mob attacking the capital of the United States, something that did not happen
20:07 in 1860, 61.
20:10 But it happened in 2021 because of this bizarre and yet all too real political power and reach
20:22 that Donald Trump has.
20:24 Cassidy Hutchinson will join us.
20:26 What she says went down behind the scenes at the White House and how she coped.
20:31 They're going up to the Capitol.
20:33 And when Bobby had relayed to him, we're not you don't have the assets to do it.
20:37 It's not secure.
20:38 We're going back to the West Wing.
20:41 The president had very strong, very angry response to that.
20:49 Tony described him as being irate.
20:53 The president said something to the effect of I'm the effing president.
20:57 Take me up to the Capitol now, to which Bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the
21:03 West Wing.
21:05 The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel.
21:13 Mr. Engle grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel.
21:19 We're going back to the West Wing.
21:21 We're not going to the Capitol.
21:24 Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engle.
21:28 And Mr. When Mr. Renato had recounted the story to me, he had motioned towards his clavicles.
21:34 And Cassidy Hutchinson joins us now live in studio.
21:37 Her new book is titled Enough.
21:39 In it, she reveals much more of what it was like to be a part of the Trump administration
21:43 and new details around January 6.
21:45 Cassidy, good morning.
21:46 It's great to meet you.
21:47 It's good to meet you.
21:48 Talk first about that day, July 28th, 2022.
21:52 You write in this book you had already given your deposition.
21:55 So you wondered why they couldn't just run the clips of that in the January 6 hearing.
21:59 You weren't sure you wanted to be the sole witness that day sitting out there right up
22:02 until the moment you went out.
22:04 You said you were looking out at that room and that crowd and you knew how your life
22:07 was about to change and you hesitated.
22:10 What pushed you out there?
22:11 Why did you think it was important to testify?
22:14 Well, thank you for the kind introduction.
22:17 There was a physical force and there was a metaphorical force.
22:20 First it actually took a little bit of force from my attorney.
22:23 I turned back to my attorney right before the doors opened and I turned back to my attorney
22:28 Bill and I was like, do I have to do this?
22:31 And I wanted to dash.
22:32 I just had this like last minute surge of anxiety.
22:36 And he said, yes, and really pushed me out.
22:40 But, you know, I also knew that it was important to be there that day.
22:46 I knew it was important to have a voice that would be able to speak truths to what actually
22:50 happened inside the West Wing that day.
22:52 And that was a conversation I had with Congresswoman Liz Cheney the night before the live testimony.
23:00 And it was this really profound moment for me when she said that it's important for women
23:07 and little girls to see that we can have people and women who speak truth to power.
23:13 And I think that we're in this era where we are in this crisis of accountability and to
23:18 have somebody that's there that can speak to those truths.
23:22 It was important.
23:23 I knew it was.
23:24 I was just a little bit nervous to do so.
23:26 Understandably so.
23:27 What really strikes you reading through this book, and there's a ton of new stuff in here
23:30 as well, is that we're 24 on January 6th, 24 years old.
23:35 You're 24 and all these alleged leaders, most of them men, throughout the West Wing, in
23:42 the Capitol, who'd been around Washington for a long time, as they were cowering, you
23:47 were the one sort of running around saying, "We have to do something here.
23:50 This is going to get bad.
23:51 This is going to get ugly."
23:52 And indeed it did.
23:54 What was it like for you in those moments, in those days, to look around and Mark Meadows,
23:59 your boss, a guy you knew and respected for a long time, was literally sitting on the
24:03 couch saying, "The big guy, Trump, doesn't want us to do anything."
24:06 And you said, "OK, the chief of staff isn't going to do anything on January 6th.
24:10 This is on me, a 24-year-old aide."
24:13 What did it feel like to have that pressure on your shoulders that day?
24:20 I didn't look at it like that at the time, because the job itself for a lot of people
24:26 at work in the White House, and Jen, I know that you have experience with this as well.
24:30 Yes, I do.
24:31 We have a lot of similar experiences.
24:33 Me, not on the grand scale, I do.
24:35 But yes, a lot of times.
24:38 But, you know, in that job, looking back with hindsight, I see it from a different perspective
24:44 now.
24:45 But in those days, it was my—I saw it as my job to be the person to get things done,
24:50 no matter what it took.
24:53 So in those moments, I saw it as my duty and obligation just to help Mark be able to facilitate
25:00 something so we didn't have a bigger crisis that day.
25:05 Looking back now, I see that there is a lack of leadership, and there was a lack of leadership
25:11 that day.
25:12 I don't view it as—I don't have some hero complex over here that I saved anything on
25:16 January 6th at all.
25:18 January 6th was a terrible day, and I live with the guilt of being complicit and possibly
25:24 instrumental in a lot of what led up to January 6th.
25:28 Part of the reason I wrote this book was to shed light on the fact that I didn't just
25:32 land in the chair on June 28th when I testified.
25:37 It took a long time to get there.
25:38 It took a long time to be able to process this and come to terms with what we did and
25:44 how it was so severe and the threat that it posed on our democracy.
25:47 You write in the book you were a proud Republican, proud conservative, turned down to politics
25:51 by the 2012 presidential campaign when Mitt Romney was running.
25:55 You were proud to get the job in the Trump White House.
25:58 You had respect for Donald Trump.
25:59 You worked alongside him.
26:02 When did that turn?
26:03 When did that change?
26:04 When did you feel like the things we've tolerated for these first three, three and a half years—and
26:09 oh, that's just Donald Trump being Donald Trump, and as you write in the book, we're
26:12 amusing in some ways to the staff—when did that change for you?
26:16 When did it get more serious and you thought to yourself, "I've got to do something here"?
26:21 There was a shift in me on January 6th that I don't think I was fully cognizant to at
26:26 the time.
26:27 But, you know, again, it took a while to get to the point where I was able to fully admit
26:33 all of those truths to myself.
26:35 And I wrestled in my mind with, was it us?
26:39 Was it—and it's the Trump world mentality where I was like—you know, I fell into that.
26:45 And there's nothing wrong with it necessarily, but it's not how I felt.
26:48 And it really was that year and a half between the administration ending and going to testify
26:54 and being more forthcoming with the committee that I realized that I wasn't going to be
26:59 able to live with myself, because this wasn't the Republican Party that I felt like I was
27:02 a part of.
27:04 This isn't the public service that I had seen myself—that I had envisioned a career
27:09 being with.
27:10 So, you know, I think that the points of reflection that I've had helped bring me to these moments,
27:17 but I'm still working through a lot of those things.
27:20 Up next, the Sandy Hook Promise Foundation is out with a new ad—
27:25 Boy, it's gripping.
27:26 —urging Americans to take gun violence seriously.
27:29 The organization's co-founder and CEO joins the show after the break.
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