URGENT!! Latest Trump News [8AM] 9_30_2023 _ BREAKING NEWS Today Sep 30, 2023
URGENT!! Latest Trump News [8AM] 9_30_2023 _ BREAKING NEWS Today Sep 30, 2023
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00:00 twice impeached, quadruple indicted, one term disgraced ex-president.
00:04 In a 22-page court filing, prosecutors highlighting several social media posts by Trump attacking
00:09 D.C. federal judge Tanya Chutkan, former vice president Mike Pence, and former Joint Chiefs
00:14 of Staff chairman Mark Milley.
00:16 In the post about Milley, who is a potential witness in the case, Trump said the general
00:20 committed treason and suggested that he should be executed.
00:23 Meanwhile, a major move in one of the other criminal cases against the ex-president.
00:29 We have the first of what could be many plea deals in Georgia's 2020 election interference
00:33 case.
00:34 Scott Hall, one of Trump's 18 co-defendants, pleaded guilty yesterday to five misdemeanor
00:38 counts of conspiracy to commit intentional interference with the performance of election
00:43 duties.
00:44 Hall, a Georgia bail bondsman, was hit with charges in connection with the breach of sensitive
00:48 voting data in Coffey County, Georgia.
00:50 Now, among the terms of his deal, Hall will be sentenced to five years of probation, and
00:55 he must testify truthfully in all further proceedings in this case, which will be televised
01:00 for the world to see.
01:02 Joining me now is Barbara McQuaid, MSNBC legal analyst, former U.S. attorney in Michigan,
01:06 law professor at the University of Michigan School of Law, and a co-host of the #SistersInLaw
01:11 podcast.
01:12 Barb, it's always a mad dash to the finish line because we never have enough time.
01:15 So let's just start with the immediate news in Fulton County.
01:19 Surprise plea taken yesterday afternoon was never on the docket.
01:23 Scott Hall, one of the 18 co-defendants of Donald Trump, took a plea.
01:28 Five misdemeanor counts, five years of probation.
01:31 But that testifying truthfully component, that special condition of his probation, what
01:36 does it mean to you?
01:38 Yes, this is a really significant moment because oftentimes when you see one defendant plead
01:44 guilty, the dominoes begin to fall because it causes the other defendants to think, I
01:48 need to get in the door too, because the deals don't get better as time goes on.
01:52 They typically get worse.
01:53 And so if you want this deal, you need to get in on it right now.
01:58 So I think this may precipitate other guilty pleas.
02:01 The other thing that I think is significant, as you say, he has agreed to cooperate and
02:05 in fact gave a recorded statement to prosecutors before the guilty plea.
02:09 But one of the things that he is alleged to have done is to have had a 63-minute phone
02:13 conversation with Jeffrey Clark, that former DOJ official, on January 2nd of 2021.
02:20 That's right in that time when all of that craziness was going on inside DOJ.
02:25 So he potentially has some really explosive testimony to provide in this case.
02:29 Yeah.
02:30 You know, Barb, on the more immediate event horizon, we've got Ken Chesbrough, Sidney
02:34 Powell going to trial on October 23rd.
02:36 They are, there are allegations in that indictment about Hall's involvement with Sidney Powell
02:41 and Coffee County and the election machines there.
02:45 And so what do you think about the fact that those defendants are going to trial, per their
02:49 speedy demands, by the way, but that now you got Scott Hall teed up, that will likely be
02:53 a huge state witness?
02:54 Yes.
02:55 And in fact, I'm sure yesterday they were very alarmed, at least Sidney Powell, to see
03:00 that he's cooperating because as you say, he's alleged to be part of that same scheme
03:04 in Coffee County.
03:05 So someone on the inside is able to provide very valuable information.
03:09 Now prosecutors would not have charged Sidney Powell and others with that scheme if they
03:13 did not believe they already had evidence sufficient to prove the case beyond a reasonable
03:17 doubt.
03:18 So it's so helpful, as you know, Katie, to have someone on the inside to be a narrator,
03:23 to be able to connect up some of the documents and video footage and other kinds of evidence
03:28 they might have in this case to help a jury really understand how this scheme was working.
03:33 So I think it's a very significant event in that first trial.
03:37 Yeah.
03:38 And I'll also note, Barb, that a grand jury also found that there was sufficient evidence
03:42 because they returned a true bill as it pertains to Scott Hall, Sidney Powell, et cetera.
03:46 Let's move a little bit farther north.
03:48 Let's go to DC.
03:49 That was a pretty scathing response in opposition that came from the government last night when
03:56 it came to a gag order.
03:57 You and I very aware of first amendment privileges that exist for all US citizens, including
04:02 the former president Donald Trump.
04:03 But I did find that the multiple citations that were made by special counsel Jack Smith's
04:08 team in their filing highlighting how Donald Trump just doesn't keep his mouth shut or
04:14 he doesn't stop posting things, especially that Millie post, calling him guilty of treason
04:21 and calling for his execution.
04:23 What were your thoughts about the success or the likely success for the DOJ to get that
04:27 very limited, narrowly tailored gag order on October 16th?
04:33 I think they make a very compelling case.
04:35 They cite these factual examples of some of the outrageous things Donald Trump continues
04:39 to say that could be intimidating witnesses or poisoning the jury pool, making it harder
04:44 for the government to receive a fair trial.
04:47 But I also thought legally they made a compelling case.
04:49 They pointed out that although we all have first amendment rights, the government and
04:53 a court is permitted to restrict those in certain circumstances if there's a compelling
05:00 governmental interest and if the order is narrowly tailored to achieve that interest.
05:05 So here the interest in protecting witnesses, protecting victims, protecting the integrity
05:09 of this trial and then narrowly tailoring it so that he's not restricted from saying
05:15 anything.
05:16 I mean, he can still proclaim his innocence if he wants to, but stopping him from going
05:20 after the witnesses in this case, I think is critically important.
05:24 So Barb, I want to ask on October 16th, when the DOJ is in front of Judge Chuck Kin and
05:29 Donald Trump's lawyers and they're arguing against this gag order, is it going to be
05:33 evidentiary in nature?
05:34 Or is it just going to be oral arguments based upon the law and based upon the filings that
05:37 have been done so far?
05:38 Yeah, I doubt we'll see any live witnesses.
05:42 I think these documents that the Justice Department has included in its briefs, and it's interesting,
05:47 they use actual screenshots of some of these truth social statements.
05:51 I think that is sufficient.
05:52 I imagine the government will rely on that and say, look at these things, Judge.
05:57 We need a gag order just to stop this from continuing.
06:01 I think she has sufficient evidence based on the factual record already in the documents
06:06 to make the ruling.
06:07 Barb, I want you to put your judge hat on right now.
06:11 And if you're Judge Chuck Kin, do you grant the DOJ's request for a gag order or do you
06:16 just expedite the trial timeline and make Donald Trump go to trial sooner?
06:21 Yeah, I think I would be more inclined to grant the order.
06:25 You know, if you expedite the trial, she has sort of raised that before.
06:28 You know, if you don't want this to harm your campaign, here's an easy way out.
06:32 Let's just get it over with.
06:33 But he does have due process rights.
06:35 And I think, although she has set a trial date, I doubt she would move it up.
06:40 But I think she has an obligation to impose this limited gag order.
06:46 I can imagine a judge being very reluctant to do that with someone running for president.
06:50 In some ways, he seems to be baiting her that this is just what he wants, so that he can
06:54 point to her as being this unfair person and daring her, if he violates it, to put her
06:58 – to put him in jail.
06:59 But I think she has an obligation to protect the integrity of this process.
07:03 Two things I'll predict, Barb, as I let you go.
07:05 One, if she enters that order, he's going to move to recuse her again, which he's failed,
07:09 by the way.
07:10 He moved to recuse and she denied that motion.
07:12 Two, you're going to come back when she does put him in jail and we're going to have a
07:15 conversation about that.
07:16 Barb McQuaid, thanks for joining us.
07:17 I appreciate it.
07:18 Thank you, Katie.
07:20 And coming up after the break, corporate death penalty.
07:23 Donald Trump's legal woes in New York this week just went from very bad to about as bad
07:27 as they can be after a judge found him liable for years of fraud.
07:30 The looming dissolution of all of his businesses in that state and what it could mean for his
07:35 questionable wealth.
07:36 You're watching the Katie Fang Show, only on MSNBC.
07:40 Cover and lots of questions to answer, so let's get started.
07:45 Countdown to shutdown.
07:46 House Speaker Kevin McCarthy's chaotic caucus has less than 16 hours to hammer out a deal
07:52 to keep the government open and millions of federal employees paid.
07:56 We're live on Capitol Hill with the down to the wire negotiations.
07:59 Plus, we'll talk to a single mother of four who works for the government who's left in
08:04 financial limbo if Congress doesn't get its act together.
08:07 Plus, remembering Senator Dianne Feinstein.
08:11 New tributes pouring in for the longest serving female senator in US history who passed away
08:16 at the age of 90.
08:17 A look back at the life and legacy of this pioneering lawmaker ahead.
08:22 And later in the show, Scout of this World, the special Girl Scouts troop showing that
08:27 kindness and acceptance knows no borders.
08:30 All of that and more is coming up.
08:43 And a good Saturday morning to you all.
08:44 I'm Katie Fang.
08:46 We begin today's show with the government shutdown becoming more likely with each tick
08:49 of the clock.
08:51 And what's becoming even more obvious is the Republican House majority doesn't have a game
08:54 plan to extend government funding past a critical deadline of midnight tonight.
09:00 President Biden says GOP House Speaker Kevin McCarthy made a terrible bargain to retain
09:04 power over his caucus, spurred by radical Republicans who are hardline holdouts.
09:10 As McCarthy tries to get a handle on his own caucus, he faces political gridlock and more
09:15 failed deals from both chambers.
09:18 In just about five hours, the Senate is expected to take up a vote on a stopgap spending bill
09:23 to keep the government open through November 17th.
09:26 But even that appears to be destined to fail in the House.
09:29 Yesterday, a separate GOP stopgap bill failed miserably on the House floor.
09:34 That bill would have extended government funding by 30 days, averting a shutdown and keeping
09:39 millions of federal employees paid.
09:42 But President Biden says it's not just those employees.
09:45 We all will pay the price.
09:47 The House can't do its job.
09:50 The House fails to fulfill its most basic function.
09:54 It fails to fund government by tomorrow.
09:56 We'll have failed all our troops.
09:59 It's an absolute dereliction of duty.
10:01 NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Julie Serkin is live for us this morning.
10:07 Julie, as always, it's good to see you.
10:10 All eyes are on the Senate for a procedural vote on a stopgap bill at 1 o'clock today.
10:15 What's the real value if that bill can't get any support from the House and the House
10:20 can't get itself together?
10:21 Well, remember, senators have been talking all week that their stopgap measure actually
10:26 has bipartisan support.
10:28 And when you hear from Majority Leader Schumer, he's been saying, look, our bipartisan bill
10:32 has the votes.
10:33 If you just put it on the House floor, it'll pass and that'll over a government shutdown.
10:38 But things are not as simple as they seem, right?
10:40 Yesterday, we reported that a group of Senate Republicans were huddling, conservative Senate
10:45 Republicans were huddling in one of the most conservative Republicans' offices, Senator
10:49 Mike Lee, Senator Ron Johnson, an effort to pass a two-week clean CR without Ukraine aid,
10:56 without disaster relief and without those border security provisions.
10:59 But will that even fly for a full Senate?
11:02 I don't think so.
11:03 That got stricken down yesterday by Democrats.
11:06 Now we're back to square zero, essentially.
11:09 That bill that the Senate will take up today is the bipartisan one with Ukraine aid included,
11:13 something Minority Leader McConnell had pushed for very much.
11:17 We'll see if they can get it done ahead of the deadline.
11:19 But you're right, it's going to go nowhere in the House.
11:21 It'll be dead on arrival.
11:22 It's not palatable to House Republicans.
11:24 Quickly, Julie, before I have to let you go, what are lawmakers telling you about this
11:28 inevitable shutdown?
11:29 I'm sure they're hearing from their constituents that it's going to have a direct impact as
11:32 well on them.
11:33 Absolutely.
11:34 And in just a couple of hours, House Republicans are going to come together.
11:37 They're going to have a meeting and they're going to try to see if they can pull another
11:40 plan out of their back pocket to try and keep the government open.
11:44 Here's what Speaker McCarthy had to say yesterday about yet another plan that he's thinking
11:48 of to avert a government shutdown.
11:50 Watch.
11:51 I think if we had a clean one without Ukraine on it, we could probably be able to move that
11:56 through.
11:57 I think if the Senate puts Ukraine on there and focuses Ukraine over America, I think
12:02 that could cause real problems.
12:04 Here's the thing for McCarthy, though.
12:06 There are still a handful of members, no matter what he does, that are not going to sign on
12:10 to a short-term government funding bill.
12:12 I'm talking about Matt Gaetz.
12:13 I'm talking about some of those hardline conservatives that are also threatening him from the speakership
12:17 chair.
12:18 So McCarthy's in a real gamble here.
12:20 He's been trying to make it work.
12:21 As one senator told me, he's seen McCarthy pull a rabbit out of a hat before when he
12:26 got the speakership gavel in the first place, when he made the deal to avoid the debt ceiling
12:30 default.
12:31 But here you just have a group of House Republicans that seem to not want to do anything to avoid
12:36 a government shutdown.
12:38 Katie?
12:39 Julie Cirkin, getting us started.
12:41 Thank you, as always.
12:42 So those deals that Kevin McCarthy brokered with a band of radical Republicans to win
12:46 the speakership after 15 votes, they're coming back to bite him.
12:51 Twenty-one far-right members of Congress, including Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene,
12:54 Paul Gosar, and Lauren Boebert, they're all tanking any progress on keeping the government
12:58 funded.
12:59 It's just the latest political blow to Speaker Kevin McCarthy, as many people, even those
13:03 within his own party, are publicly questioning if he has what it takes to hold onto the speakership.
13:09 Some Republicans claim the battle to avoid a government shutdown is actually just between
13:13 two people, Kevin McCarthy and Matt Gaetz.
13:17 There's only one person to blame for any potential government shutdown, and that's Matt Gaetz.
13:23 He's not a conservative Republican.
13:24 He's a charlatan.
13:26 And as far as I'm concerned, when you're working with Democrats to try to vacate the speaker,
13:33 you're a joke.
13:34 Joining me now, Democratic Congressman Richie Torres, a member of the Financial Services
13:40 Committee.
13:41 Congressman, it's always so good to have you on the show.
13:43 Straight out of the gate, do you agree that Representative Matt Gaetz is a charlatan—those
13:47 words, not mine—leading all of this chaos that we're seeing right now?
13:52 Well, most Republicans have been captured by charlatans, by arsonists who are intent
14:00 on burning down the leadership of their own party, burning down the full faith and credit
14:03 of the United States, burning down the federal government.
14:06 I mean, these people have no interest in governing.
14:09 Their only objective is pure dysfunction, pure chaos.
14:13 But again, the problem is the whole Republican Party.
14:16 There are two types of Republicans in the House.
14:17 There are the extremists, and then there are those who enable the extremists.
14:22 You know, so-called moderate Republicanism is not even an endangered species.
14:27 It's extinct.
14:28 And it only takes one member to file a motion to vacate, to remove the speaker.
14:34 And Kevin McCarthy lives in fear of his own removal.
14:39 And there's been nothing but chaos.
14:40 House Republicans have revealed themselves to be every bit as chaotic and erratic and
14:45 lunatic as their lord and savior, Donald Trump.
14:49 So how are you working with your Republican colleagues to come to an agreement and to
14:52 keep the focus on the bigger picture, the people that are directly impacted by the Republicans
14:57 holding their paychecks hostage?
15:00 Well, there's a bipartisan compromise on the table.
15:05 It has the support of the Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer.
15:09 It has the support of the Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.
15:12 It has the support of the House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries.
15:15 The only holdout is Speaker McCarthy.
15:18 The House Republicans are the obstacle to preventing a government shutdown.
15:24 And a House Republican shutdown would bring senseless suffering to the American people.
15:30 It would affect 7 million women, children, and infants who will lose access to food from
15:36 the WIPP program.
15:37 It will affect 5 million troops and federal employees who will be forced to go without
15:41 pay.
15:42 It will affect 1.63 million Americans flying through airports every single day.
15:49 It would just bring senseless suffering to the American people.
15:52 And people should keep in mind that the federal government represents 25 percent of the American
15:56 economy.
15:57 You know, House Republicans cannot shut down up to one-fourth of the American economy without
16:02 causing extraordinary damage to households and businesses across the country.
16:08 You know, it's Groundhog Day, because just last year, we had the same issue, right?
16:12 We were just inching our way, but perilously, towards a government shutdown.
16:17 It took President Biden to step in to be able to get something across the finish line.
16:21 Clearly, McCarthy is reneging on any deals that were made back then.
16:24 He's not going to honor anything that he should have and he did agree to back then.
16:28 Do you think it's going to take President Biden's hand in this to be able to get involved,
16:32 to be able to get and to avoid -- to get a resolution and to avoid a shutdown?
16:37 You know, we have a bipartisan support.
16:41 We have a bipartisan deal that has the support of President Biden.
16:44 The burden falls on Speaker McCarthy to assert leadership and support the bipartisan compromise
16:51 on the table.
16:52 But the reality is that there is a civil war unfolding within the Republican Party.
16:58 The Republicans are fighting among themselves and are rotting from within.
17:02 And the victims here are the American people.
17:04 The American people are paying a heavy price for the incompetence and the dysfunction and
17:09 the extremism of House Republicans.
17:13 So Congressman, there are a number of people that are directly impacted.
17:16 You went through the numbers.
17:18 They're startling.
17:19 But it's not just the government employees, some of whom are going to have to work without
17:23 a paycheck.
17:24 It's going to be the trickle-down effect that's going to affect your constituents, us and
17:27 the other people that are in America.
17:29 What is your message, if you could send one right now to Speaker McCarthy to let him know
17:35 that he's the one, he's the one who's holding all of America hostage if this government
17:40 shutdown happens?
17:42 I call upon my Republican colleagues to do what's best for the country.
17:47 You know, a government shutdown is not an abstraction.
17:50 It will do an enormous amount of harm to an enormous number of people.
17:54 You know, and I'll give you a concrete example.
17:55 One of the greatest challenges facing our country is the severe shortage of air traffic
18:00 controllers.
18:01 A House Republican shutdown would exacerbate the shortage of air traffic controllers and
18:06 endanger the safety of air travel in the United States.
18:11 Why on earth are House Republicans playing Russian roulette with the safety of air travel?
18:16 And so this is not a game.
18:18 And we need to do what's right for the American people.
18:22 I can answer that question.
18:23 It's because the Republicans pick politics over people.
18:26 Congressman Richie Torres, as always, it's a pleasure to have you here.
18:29 Thanks for joining us this morning.
18:31 And tributes from around the world are pouring in for the longest serving female senator
18:36 in U.S. history.
18:38 Democratic California Senator and former San Francisco Mayor Dianne Feinstein passed away
18:42 at the age of 90 on Friday.
18:44 She was the oldest sitting U.S. senator, but also the first of many to break gender barriers
18:49 throughout her more than half a century long career in local and national politics.
18:54 NBC News correspondent Liz Coyt shows us how Senator Feinstein is being honored by people
19:00 on both sides of the political aisle.
19:02 Hey, yeah, so we are outside Senator Dianne Feinstein's home here in San Francisco, where
19:08 people have been coming by, paying their respects, dropping flowers off.
19:13 This is huge news, both here in California and, of course, across the country.
19:18 Despite some calls in recent months for the senator to resign because of her declining
19:23 health, people truly on both sides of the aisle see her as a trailblazer, someone who
19:28 paved the way for women in politics.
19:31 Here in San Francisco, she's been an elected -- she was an elected office for more than
19:36 50 years.
19:37 Many people here don't even know a world without Dianne Feinstein as someone representing them.
19:43 I spoke to women here coming by who said that they've admired her since they were young
19:47 children, that they wanted to be like her when they grow up, that they see her as a
19:52 fighter and someone who's done so much for the country and for California.
19:57 And just every step of the way for Feinstein, she's been the first.
19:59 She was the first woman elected to San Francisco Board of Supervisors back in 1969.
20:05 She was the first female woman mayor of San Francisco.
20:09 And then she was one of two women to be elected to the U.S. Senate, the first women to be
20:13 elected to represent California back in 1992 alongside Senator Barbara Boxer, and the year
20:19 that was dubbed the Year of the Women.
20:21 And then, of course, when she got into the Senate, she just had so many accomplishments,
20:24 most notably, of course, her work on gun control.
20:27 She was able to author the assault weapons ban, which restricted certain semiautomatic
20:33 weapons for 10 years, the only member of Congress to ever be able to push through a controlled
20:39 weapons ban, a ban on controlled weapons.
20:42 So just a really remarkable person, known for reaching across the aisle, her work with
20:47 the LGBT community, her work with women, her work with the environment.
20:51 She's the reason that California has Death Valley National Park and the Joshua Tree National
20:55 Park.
20:56 So, so many people impacted by her work.
20:59 And, of course, the big question is, what's next?
21:01 Who's going to replace her?
21:02 All of those questions are going to come in the coming days, as Governor Newsom is tasked
21:06 with now replacing her, choosing an interim candidate.
21:10 And of course, California's in the middle of a big Senate race here.
21:13 But right now, people in California paying their respects to the icon that is Dianne
21:17 Feinstein.
21:19 Back to you.
21:21 Liz Kreutz, thank you for that report.
21:23 And still to come, surviving the shutdown, Radical House Republicans' pointless shutdown
21:28 isn't just political theater.
21:30 It will have a devastating and very real impact on the millions of federal employees whose
21:35 paychecks hang in the balance.
21:37 After the break, a government employee and single mom of four tells me how she plans
21:40 to make it through the Republican-driven government shutdown.
21:45 With less than 16 hours until a possible government shutdown, millions of federal workers are
21:50 finding themselves and their paychecks facing possible financial peril when that clock strikes
21:55 12 a.m. Sunday.
21:57 The federal workforce of 2.2 million will be either working with pay, working without
22:02 pay, or not working and not being paid.
22:05 Those are millions of real people, some moms and dads, some already living paycheck to
22:10 paycheck.
22:11 But that's not something members of Congress will have to worry about.
22:14 Here's freshman Republican Congressman Brandon Williams on continuing to get paid during
22:19 a shutdown.
22:22 Will you accept that pay?
22:23 I will.
22:24 Our job does not end in a shutdown.
22:28 We don't get to stay home.
22:30 We stay there and make it work.
22:32 I don't think you're going to find a huge amount of sympathy, you know, for people that
22:38 have been furloughed or early retirement.
22:42 Oh, it's the entitlement for me.
22:45 Hours later and after facing heavy backlash, Williams, of course, reversed his course as
22:50 now asking for his salary to be withheld during a shutdown.
22:54 Unfortunately, not something most of his fellow colleagues are planning to do as well.
22:59 Joining me now is one of those government employees who will be directly impacted by
23:02 the shutdown, Jessica LaPointe, a claims specialist for the Social Security Administration and
23:07 the president of the American Federation of Government Employees Council 220.
23:11 Jessica, what have you been told by the Social Security Administration to prepare you for
23:16 what might be happening this evening?
23:19 Yes, thanks for having me.
23:22 So we had a meeting with the Social Security Administration yesterday, and we were told
23:27 that most field workers at the Social Security Administration are deemed essential, which
23:31 means that we will be going into work without a paycheck while the government has a lapse
23:36 in funding.
23:37 You know, Jessica, you are a single mother of four.
23:41 You have a beautiful family.
23:42 I've seen photos.
23:43 But tell our viewers how this government shutdown is going to affect you and your family.
23:50 So how it's going to directly affect me and my family.
23:54 And I think I'm synonymous with most federal workers and most Social Security workers.
23:59 We mostly live paycheck to paycheck.
24:01 Sixty percent of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.
24:05 Federal workers are no different.
24:07 So there's going to be a lot of belt tightening in my household and households all across
24:11 the country of federal workers who are forced to work without pay during this unknown time.
24:17 We're going to be doing some auto withdrawal changes from our bank accounts as our mortgage
24:23 payments and car payments and daycare payments are going to be coming out of auto withdrawal.
24:28 We'll have to stop that, provide a letter to our lenders and creditors letting them
24:33 know about the shutdown, and hopefully they'll be understanding as we wait for our income
24:39 to come in.
24:40 JESSICA DESVARIEUX, The Washington Post: Jessica, back in 2013, I understand you made
24:44 it through a 16-day shutdown when that happens.
24:48 But talk about what you had to do to be able to make it through those 16 days.
24:52 JESSICA DESVARIEUX, The Washington Post: Well, there was just sort of a lot of nervous
24:57 waiting.
24:58 Our paycheck was delayed a couple of days.
25:01 So that was a relief.
25:02 But we are expecting the shutdown to last much longer, based on the dysfunction that
25:06 we're seeing among a few people in Congress.
25:10 So, yes, it's a lot of nervous planning.
25:15 This time around, I am looking to have to suspend a vacation that I had planned, just
25:20 to have all resources available to make it through what is an undetermined amount of
25:25 time without income security.
25:27 DESVARIEUX: Do you anticipate maybe having to take loans out or having to borrow money
25:32 to make sure that you make ends meet while the shutdown happens?
25:35 DESVARIEUX: Yes, I'm looking at all my options just to have enough in my personal bank account.
25:42 And I know government workers, Social Security workers are doing the same.
25:45 We're looking -- we're having conversations with family and friends to make sure we have
25:49 enough in our bank accounts.
25:51 Most of us are not sitting on a large pile of cash.
25:54 We have a 24 percent pay gap with federal workers between the private sector.
25:59 So, you know, we make on average about $60,000 a year.
26:02 So we're just going to be looking to family and friends, looking to our loans, servicing
26:07 options, maybe do some retirement account withdrawals, just to make sure we have enough
26:13 money in our bank accounts so that we don't -- our credit isn't affected by not being
26:18 able to pay our bills on time.
26:20 DESVARIEUX: You know, Jessica, according to the American Federation of Government Employees,
26:24 just some examples of employees who will be working without pay, including you, about
26:28 52,500 where you work at the Social Security Administration, nearly 200,000 at the Department
26:35 of Defense, and about 1,300 at NASA.
26:37 I mean, these are just some examples.
26:39 You are deemed a, quote, essential employee, meaning you're going to work 40 hours a week
26:43 without any pay for however long it takes for the government to be not, you know, in
26:50 chaos and actually get its act together.
26:52 You talk about some of the sacrifices you're going to have to make, but I want you to also
26:56 talk a little bit about what you know are going to impact other Americans.
26:59 So you're going to work without pay, but, for example, OSHA is not going to do inspections.
27:04 The EPA is not going to do inspections.
27:07 The federal government, in terms of the court system, is only going to be open for a couple
27:10 of weeks.
27:11 And I know you're having these conversations about how it's not just you, but it's also
27:15 all of America that's going to feel this shutdown impact.
27:21 That's correct.
27:22 I mean, Social Security has been underfunded for over a decade, so we're already dealing
27:25 with long service delays.
27:27 We're already dealing with a staffing attrition crisis that is unprecedented.
27:33 We're at our lowest staffing levels in 25 years.
27:36 So this is only going to further exacerbate our customer service crisis, further exacerbate
27:41 our attrition crisis, as federal workers are going to be questioning their dedication to
27:46 civil service during this time, having to—being forced to work with income insecurity without
27:53 the promise of a paycheck coming in on time.
27:56 So we expect this shutdown, hopefully, to be temporary, but the effects will be long-lasting
28:02 on Social Security beneficiaries, who are the most vulnerable members of our society,
28:06 who are already forced to wait way too long for services.
28:10 Most of our attention as workers are going to be dedicated to just answering phone calls
28:14 regarding the shutdown.
28:15 Most Americans are uncertain as to how their Social Security benefits are going to be affected.
28:21 There are benefits that are going to be—services that are going to be suspended—excuse me,
28:27 not benefits.
28:28 Benefits will continue, but services—some services will be suspended.
28:33 And so there's going to be a lot of question and confusion and frustration that we'll
28:38 have to deal with as federal workers, not only in our personal and private and family
28:42 lives, but with the American people that are confused by this, the most vulnerable members
28:46 of our society that are confused by this and just worried about their own income security
28:52 as well during this chaotic time.
28:54 Jessica, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that Congress will get it together, more specifically
28:59 the Republicans in Congress, and that you won't be impacted by this shutdown.
29:03 I'm also going to say my hat off to you for leading your union and for doing the work
29:06 that you're doing.
29:07 And to Pamela Point, thanks for joining us today.
29:10 Thank you so much for having me.
29:11 And still to come on The Katie Fang Show, the first to flip what we know about Trump
29:16 co-defendant and Georgia bail bondsman Scott Hall's plea deal in the Georgia election interference
29:21 case.
29:22 Keep it right here.
29:23 You're watching MSNBC.
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