Our culture on stage: In discussion with Aliyah Odoffin & Mark Akintimehin
Yourcinemafilms.com | For Our Stories Festival we sat down with Mark Akintimehin (For Black Boys) and Aliyah Odoffin (Sleepova) exploring the impact of our culture stage.
In this insightful conversation, Mark and Aliyah share their experiences, insights, and inspirations as they reflect on their roles in these remarkable productions. Discover the power of storytelling, representation, and the rich tapestry of culture in the world of theatre.
’Welcome to Your Cinema'
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In this insightful conversation, Mark and Aliyah share their experiences, insights, and inspirations as they reflect on their roles in these remarkable productions. Discover the power of storytelling, representation, and the rich tapestry of culture in the world of theatre.
’Welcome to Your Cinema'
Follow us on socials:
Tiktok: @yourcinemafilms
Instagram: @yourcinemafilms
Twitter: @yourcinemafilms
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FunTranscript
00:00 This year in particular, our culture has really, so to speak, taken the stage
00:06 and really taken up the space in a great way.
00:10 And we've got two people here who are two great examples of that.
00:15 So I want to introduce Alia Adofin and Mark Akin-Timihin.
00:21 I did it right, didn't I? Come on, my G.
00:23 Yes, yes, yes.
00:25 Oh, from Sleepover and for Black Boys.
00:29 They've done loads of other stuff, but specifically, come on,
00:32 give them a round of applause.
00:34 Come on, I love it, I love it, I love it.
00:37 So I'm going to go straight in, right?
00:39 Like the past, it probably looks like the past year,
00:43 but it's probably been the past two years have been like
00:46 probably a bit of a whirlwind for both of you, right?
00:50 Specifically with regards to Sleepover and for Black Boys,
00:54 like how did each of those roles come about for you?
00:57 I will start with you, Alia.
01:00 I want to say hi as well.
01:02 - Hello. - I'm so happy to be here.
01:03 Thank you for having me.
01:05 Sleepover came about just as...
01:08 Sorry, can I also say that Alia was here last year, right,
01:12 as part of our drama school session because she had just graduated.
01:18 So in 12 months, yeah, it's a bit mad here, but yeah.
01:22 Thank you.
01:26 Thank you.
01:28 So Sleepover came about just as an audition.
01:31 I got sent the script to read and just...
01:37 It was a bit different, actually.
01:39 I had the opportunity to pick which character I resonated most with
01:43 after reading the script, and then from that point,
01:47 I could pick who I wanted to audition,
01:48 and it could be more than one person.
01:50 And then, so I read the script and the character
01:54 that I ended up playing really shot out at me.
01:59 And there was another character, and then I kind of went back to my agent,
02:02 and I was like, "No, tell them to scrap the other character.
02:04 "I'm not going to do that. I just want to do her,
02:06 "and I want to play her."
02:07 And so I got to pick a section of the script that I enjoyed.
02:12 No, no, that's a lie. They gave you sections.
02:15 And so I learnt that section.
02:16 I came in, and I was just in the room with the director, Jade Lewis,
02:21 and the cast and director, Jitinda.
02:23 And just did the scenes, redirected,
02:29 asked me my opinion and things like that,
02:31 because it was new writing, because it's out of the bush,
02:33 which focuses on new writing.
02:36 So from that point, it would develop.
02:39 So it was very much experimental, kind of,
02:42 and it was very much like, "What do you bring?
02:44 "What do you feel?" kind of.
02:46 So in that way, it was exciting,
02:48 because you got to be creative and imaginative.
02:50 And, yeah, that's how the role came about.
02:54 - I love that.
02:54 So it sounds like it was the natural process of,
03:00 "Do you know what? A job's come through,
03:02 "and I'm just going to go through the process,
03:04 "'cause I like the character."
03:06 - Yeah. - Cool.
03:07 Mark, how did For Black Boys come about for you?
03:10 - For Black Boys was open casting on Instagram.
03:17 - Wow. - I say open casting.
03:19 Let me not use the word in the wrong way.
03:21 So it was broadcasted on Instagram
03:24 and other social media platforms.
03:26 Saw it at first, saved it.
03:31 I was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna apply to this."
03:33 I think it might have been a few hours later
03:36 or maybe even the next day,
03:38 a friend of mine whose opinion I value quite highly,
03:42 she's not in the art sphere, but she's a creative,
03:46 and she sent it to me a few hours later.
03:49 Or the next day.
03:50 And I was like, "Okay, so this is a sign."
03:52 So applied to it.
03:55 Then I saw Tristan was attached to it.
04:00 Me and Tristan have been trying to work
04:05 in some capacity for a while.
04:07 So yeah, went to the audition.
04:11 Naturally, room for the black men.
04:16 I actually came late to the first audition.
04:19 And when I walked in, it was literally a sweat box.
04:25 Just black men going, "Hm."
04:28 And it was, yeah.
04:30 So I was like, "Okay, this is cool, I guess."
04:35 Windows steamed up, everything, man sweating.
04:37 And I was like, "All right, cool."
04:39 I already started seeing, man, that I knew that will happen
04:42 in the industry naturally.
04:43 You'll be auditioning, not as much now,
04:46 but if it's theater, then most probably auditioning,
04:50 seeing people that you know.
04:51 So I saw a few people that I knew and whatnot.
04:54 Auditioned, it was a two round audition.
04:56 The second round is when we picked monologues
05:01 and the characters' names weren't there.
05:03 They were just character A, character B,
05:05 character C, character D, and so on and so on.
05:07 And I auditioned for my character.
05:10 I'm not gonna speak for the rest,
05:11 but not everybody auditioned for the characters
05:13 that they were originally.
05:15 But I auditioned for the character and yeah,
05:18 the rest was history.
05:20 - Do you know what?
05:21 I love that, right?
05:22 Because with both of you, what it seems like is you guys,
05:27 I guess maybe compared to on screen,
05:33 there seems to be this collaborative,
05:37 what's your view, what do you want?
05:40 In both of those stories,
05:41 I'm not saying this is the case for all castings
05:44 that you get in theater,
05:45 but I think it's really interesting that you specifically,
05:50 I don't know if you specifically identified
05:52 with your character, but you said,
05:53 "Do you know what?
05:54 "This is the role I'm going for."
05:56 And you happened to get it,
05:57 whereas those of other people didn't.
05:59 And with you as well, Aaliyah, you said,
06:01 "Do you know what?
06:02 "I like this one."
06:04 And you got the role, do you know what I mean?
06:08 How different is that process compared to screen
06:10 from your perspectives?
06:12 - The process of auditioning,
06:16 I think it can feel different to screen
06:22 because the medium you know is different.
06:24 But I think you can approach it the same way
06:28 and approaching screen auditions
06:32 a bit like theater auditions
06:34 can breed more for you creatively
06:37 in the process of doing the audition
06:39 because naturally with theater,
06:42 I think you excavate a lot more
06:44 in that rehearsal process.
06:45 You have weeks and so you can pull apart
06:48 and things like that.
06:49 And I think if you just approach
06:50 any audition like that, really,
06:53 the nature of kind of being explorative
06:56 and diving deep into something
07:00 and being messy in that way,
07:03 and just that if we're just talking
07:04 about the audition process,
07:06 can, it doesn't really look that different.
07:08 I think sometimes they get you to play
07:11 a bit more physically and in the space sometimes
07:13 in theater auditions
07:15 by the sounds of what you described
07:17 that sounds like that happened for you.
07:20 And I know in the room,
07:21 I allowed myself to do that
07:24 because you can find a lot
07:27 when you use all of yourself.
07:29 So I think not being afraid to be expressive
07:35 and being in the character
07:37 and in the world in an audition room period,
07:40 theater or film and TV
07:43 opens things up for yourself.
07:47 And if it's not right,
07:49 you can trust that the director
07:51 or the cast and director will tell you,
07:53 okay, let's bring this down a bit
07:56 or bring this here or move it.
07:57 'Cause that's their job.
07:59 But I don't think it is that different
08:03 except for those things.
08:04 Yeah.
08:04 - I love that.
08:06 I love that.
08:06 I love that.
08:07 Now, Mark, for Black Boys
08:11 has become a false statement.
08:15 I would say also a moment, right?
08:17 So much so I couldn't get a ticket,
08:19 which was the same for Sleepover as well.
08:22 Yeah, I didn't wanna be that guy
08:24 'cause I'm sure a hundred people would,
08:26 oh, you would've, okay, cool.
08:27 Well, I know next to,
08:28 hey, bro, next to, you know,
08:30 all right, cool.
08:31 Are you, yeah, all right, cool, cool, cool.
08:34 Don't worry.
08:35 Yeah, I'll use that for the rest of your career.
08:37 That's great.
08:38 I appreciate that, bro.
08:42 Sorry, this is a personal conversation.
08:43 So yeah, like, so even though
08:47 I didn't get to see the show,
08:48 I felt how important it was, right?
08:52 But from your perspective,
08:55 why is for Black Boys specifically,
08:58 why has that been so important?
09:00 - You see, we always,
09:08 from the first table read,
09:09 we knew that the show was important,
09:12 but for the most part,
09:14 the way people outside describe it to us,
09:18 we're like, you know,
09:20 when they say things,
09:21 we may seem quite nonchalant about it,
09:23 but it's literally like,
09:24 our heads are kind of buried in the sand
09:27 and it's just about do the job.
09:29 Do it well, do it.
09:31 Like, we've got a heavy burden on our shoulders
09:33 and we knew that from the get-go.
09:34 And so when people say what they say,
09:39 it's like, they might feel like,
09:42 oh, why is he capping?
09:43 Why is he acting like he don't know?
09:44 But it's like, honestly,
09:45 we literally were here to make sure
09:51 the story was told as good as it can be
09:53 every single night.
09:55 And that was our main focus.
09:58 It wasn't anything other than that.
10:00 So when people come and say what they do say,
10:04 for me personally,
10:06 sometimes it could be,
10:07 because I don't see myself as anything big
10:11 or whatever.
10:12 So it's like, I'll be working
10:14 or doing whatever I'm doing
10:15 and someone might come and say something.
10:17 And then it's like,
10:18 I still see myself as a normal person.
10:22 I like to think I'm still a normal person.
10:24 Someone's coming and saying,
10:26 you changed my life, my parents.
10:28 Like I hugged my dad when I got home.
10:30 I did this, I did that.
10:32 And I'm not making these things up
10:35 because people will speak to me every single night.
10:37 I've done it for three years.
10:38 So I don't know how,
10:41 maybe up to a hundred shows I've done now.
10:44 So people come to me,
10:46 they message me or whatever it is.
10:48 Just to answer your question,
10:53 I think it's important
10:54 because a lot of conversations
10:56 that you see when we always are like,
11:00 oh, we're living the same life.
11:02 We're all living the same life,
11:04 but we don't really even know it,
11:05 whether we're African or Caribbean
11:07 or whatever it is.
11:09 I think for Black Boys,
11:10 sort of took the sheep off of that.
11:14 And everybody sort of saw everyone's scar.
11:18 Like we opened our scars up
11:20 and without being apologetic about it
11:24 and everybody was able to see everyone else's
11:27 and everybody was sort of able to bond
11:30 through pain and laughter.
11:31 So yeah, I think it was good for the culture
11:35 'cause it's not a thing we do in the culture.
11:39 - I love that.
11:40 I love that.
11:41 And then transferring it to a medium like theater as well,
11:46 which yeah, I think that's really interesting.
11:48 Thank you.
11:49 Ali, for you, right?
11:52 I remember, and this is probably my bad, right?
11:56 Because when I said to myself,
11:59 when "Sleepover" was announced,
12:00 oh yeah, I'll probably see that.
12:02 And then it was the last week where I was like,
12:04 I probably saw a post where they said,
12:06 oh, it's the last week.
12:08 And I was like, okay, cool.
12:09 I'll try and book.
12:10 And then I couldn't, it was sold out, right?
12:12 Like multiple, multiple days.
12:14 So for you, right?
12:16 What was that like seeing this project
12:19 that maybe you've approached as like,
12:22 okay, I'm doing this job.
12:24 When you've initially decided to pursue
12:28 and go through that process of auditioning to get the role,
12:32 you don't know whether the show is gonna be a hit
12:35 or whoever's gonna like it, et cetera.
12:39 But in seeing that, what was that like for you?
12:45 - I much like the process, I feel like,
12:50 of what happened with "For Black Boys."
12:52 It's actually quite interesting
12:53 because I saw "For Black Boys"
12:56 and I was like, there needs to be something for black girls.
12:59 And then "Sleepover" came around like the next year
13:02 and I was like, interesting, thank you.
13:04 I, and so when "Sleepover" happened,
13:09 I was so dedicated to being in this story
13:14 and being in this really, really safe space for black women.
13:18 And it spanned to the creative team.
13:21 It was one of the most beautiful experiences I've ever had
13:26 because it was so purposeful.
13:29 Every single moment we had in that rehearsal room,
13:32 every single moment we had between each other,
13:34 the, you know, nobody will ever see or ever know.
13:38 It impacts you beyond the actor doing the role.
13:43 It impacts you as a person.
13:44 And I think, you know, you're really lucky
13:47 if a job can do that period.
13:48 But to answer your question,
13:51 being in the world was so kind of all consuming
13:57 and captivating those two hours on stage,
13:59 being a 16 year old, you know, they, like they,
14:02 those girls had sugar for blood.
14:04 And so it was like, just like constant, like energy.
14:07 And it was, it was very, very safe.
14:10 Like there was safety within the story
14:12 and in that world.
14:13 And so the impact was,
14:16 everything was just this incredible bonus
14:19 because we were existing in this space
14:22 where you kind of, you hear it,
14:24 but like it only impacts you so much
14:27 because to internalize everything is almost overwhelming.
14:32 So that's why the end of the job,
14:34 like those moments of reflection are really important
14:37 because they do do things to people.
14:39 Like I had a father message me saying that
14:43 he has never seen a depiction of black women being safe
14:51 and in their own private space together.
14:54 And the importance that that has
14:57 and the safety that that has
14:59 and the beauty that that has
15:00 and how it's changed the way he looks at his daughter
15:03 and how he's gonna be with his daughter
15:05 and what he's gonna provide for her and all this stuff.
15:07 And it's incredible, but it's almost like,
15:09 whoa, 'cause you're just telling the story.
15:12 But the beauty is if you just stay in the truth,
15:15 if it impacts someone, it impacts someone.
15:19 And that's like incredible.
15:21 But I always like, I would say to the girls,
15:24 'cause it was all of their professional stage debuts.
15:29 And so they turned to me and I'd be like,
15:32 "Guys, I've only done one other play,
15:34 but I will be the leader."
15:36 But I'd be like, anytime it kind of gets, you feel more,
15:41 it feels like you're kind of running away from yourself.
15:44 Just like look into each other's eyes
15:45 and like the safety is like in the story.
15:48 And when you find the safety in the story,
15:51 usually that's kind of when you feel like
15:53 everybody else comes to you and said,
15:54 "I felt this, this and that."
15:55 It's because you're not really focusing on the impact,
15:58 you're kind of focused on the truth.
16:00 And so it's always incredible to know that
16:03 when you stay within the truth,
16:05 that people feel something and it impacts people.
16:08 It's the blessing of the job.
16:10 Yeah.
16:11 - I love that. I love that. I love that.
16:13 Now, both of you are great actors.
16:16 In terms of, I guess your career
16:23 and the roles that you were pursuing,
16:24 or even thinking about,
16:26 was your headspace in theatre before you got these roles?
16:32 - Yes.
16:32 - Yes.
16:33 - Okay, cool. That's perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect. Okay.
16:37 - Can I be honest with you?
16:39 - Yes, please, please.
16:40 - Theatre, in my opinion,
16:42 I've not done a great amount of screen,
16:45 but theatre is like a drug for me personally.
16:49 - All right.
16:50 - Like...
16:50 (audience laughing)
16:53 - I'm not saying you do drugs. I'm sure you don't.
16:55 - No, do you know what?
16:56 It was the next thing I was going to say in my head
16:58 that I was laughing at,
16:59 that I was like, I don't want to say it's like a power trip,
17:02 but being able to have the ability to walk this way
17:09 and everyone's like this,
17:11 or walk that way and everyone goes like this.
17:13 It's like, people get nervous,
17:18 but the way I sometimes help people counteract nerves is,
17:23 look, they're walking into your domain.
17:26 This is your domain.
17:28 This is your living room.
17:29 This is your world.
17:31 This is like, this is your residency
17:34 for another how many weeks or months.
17:37 These people, they're going to come tonight
17:38 and they're going to go.
17:39 This is your place.
17:41 You know what I'm saying?
17:42 So, you know, whatever you do,
17:45 even if you get it wrong,
17:46 like it's like a juggling act
17:49 and seeing how much you can...
17:51 So I prefer theatre a bit.
17:54 Obviously the checks are different for screen, but...
17:57 (laughing)
17:59 Wow. Okay, cool.
18:00 Alia, how do you feel about the stage?
18:04 I love it.
18:05 I think theatre, for me,
18:08 theatre and film and TV lend to each other.
18:10 I think both of them teach you specific things
18:14 that you can use in the other
18:16 that elevate whatever you're doing.
18:19 I love theatre because there's nothing
18:23 like that time period where you're together.
18:25 There's nothing like those weeks
18:27 where you're rehearsing.
18:28 Nobody knows all the different iterations
18:31 of said scene that becomes
18:34 one person's favourite life-changing scene.
18:36 Nobody knows the journeys that you've gone through
18:39 with director or the writer,
18:41 if it's like new writing
18:42 and the things that have transpired
18:44 or the things that you hated
18:46 and then you loved.
18:47 Like the whole journey is so intrinsic
18:53 to the process and the end product.
18:56 And you have the chance to pick a part
19:00 which you don't always get with TV and film.
19:03 But in that same breath,
19:07 it teaches you ways in which to do that
19:10 within the confined space of time of TV and film.
19:14 How to do those things that you do in theatre
19:16 that you can't always do in TV and screen.
19:19 The thing about theatre is you can throw stuff at the wall
19:23 and you can see what sticks.
19:25 Like you can fail and you can be messy
19:28 because you hopefully create a space
19:31 that you feel trust
19:35 and you feel not comfortable, but safe.
19:38 So you risk and things are wrong
19:42 and you're not afraid to look stupid
19:44 because you have to find your way there.
19:47 And that's the joy of stage
19:48 that you can be human,
19:50 like mess, sweat, whatever.
19:52 Like you're there and you're doing it
19:54 and you're getting into it.
19:56 And that's, I think, the attraction with theatre.
20:00 And a lot of times when I speak to people
20:01 who've done a lot of TV and film for a long time,
20:04 the yearning to do theatre
20:05 is because sometimes you just want to break away.
20:07 Like it's like not having a camera,
20:12 not having a chance to do more than one take,
20:14 knowing that it's those two hours or an hour and a half.
20:17 And that's the only version of that scene,
20:20 act two, scene five, that you're going to do for that night.
20:23 And knowing that that exists,
20:26 that is that version of the play for someone
20:28 and that's okay.
20:29 And that, and yeah, it's just the play.
20:31 It's the freedom.
20:32 But I believe there's ways in which
20:35 it can lend itself to TV and film,
20:37 which is also exciting.
20:39 - I love that.
20:40 I love that.
20:40 After my next question,
20:43 we'll throw to questions from you guys.
20:46 But this is for both of you, right?
20:49 What advice would you give to an actor
20:52 who's hungry to get in the game,
20:54 but hasn't really considered theatre?
20:56 - Do it, 100%.
20:59 Theatre teaches you stuff about yourself
21:05 that TV and film can sometimes hold back within you.
21:12 And that's a sense of fearlessness, I think.
21:15 There's so much time pressure
21:17 when it comes to TV and film,
21:19 because there's production,
21:21 there's companies, there's lights,
21:22 there's camera, there's this,
21:24 there's contracts, there's blah, blah, blah.
21:26 And the thing about theatre
21:28 is that you're in the space,
21:29 you're in the room,
21:31 you're encouraged to be messy,
21:33 you're encouraged to try,
21:35 you're encouraged to speak,
21:38 use your voice, stand in your truth.
21:40 And that's empowering.
21:43 And that can give you things that will be,
21:47 what's the word?
21:50 That will be like,
21:51 it will be rich for not just your performances
21:56 and things you do, but in life.
21:58 And the grounding and the power,
22:03 like you were saying about the fact
22:04 that you can kind of lead an audience,
22:08 almost like magic,
22:09 you can take them along on a story.
22:10 It's the most authentic way of storytelling,
22:14 'cause it goes back to donkeys ago
22:17 and people would just be around fire pits or whatever.
22:20 And you're telling stories
22:21 and you're using your body
22:22 and you're using your imagination.
22:24 And it encourages you to break past boundaries,
22:30 which you don't even know
22:31 that you've set for yourself mentally,
22:33 or things that you might feel
22:35 that you're constantly knocking against
22:36 when it comes to performance.
22:38 When you're in rehearsal room,
22:40 when you're in theatre,
22:41 you're able, if you dare to be courageous,
22:46 strive to break through
22:48 and move through those things
22:50 to discover the possibilities
22:53 which exist within you,
22:54 which you may not even know.
22:57 So that's the kind of magic of theatre.
22:59 So I'd say 100% go for it.
23:01 Yeah.
23:02 - Love that, love that.
23:03 Mark, what about you?
23:05 What advice would you give to that?
23:06 - I'll keep it real
23:10 because everybody has the answer in their head
23:13 to whether they're in it just for a bit
23:17 or this is what I wanna do for life.
23:19 Like, till I get to Robert De Niro, Al Pacino age.
23:23 I mean, if it's something that you just fancy
23:28 and you wanna sort of do,
23:30 then I mean, jumping straight to screen is fine, you know?
23:36 But if this is something you're trying to do for life,
23:40 I would always say theatre first
23:43 and then screen afterwards.
23:46 And I think it's what sort of,
23:48 it's not a fact,
23:52 but I think it's what sort of puts us ahead
23:55 in terms of us people in the UK
23:58 and people in the US
24:00 because we have such a strong culture of theatre
24:03 and such a rich background in theatre.
24:05 By the time you've done all your theatre training,
24:08 you've gone to all your drama schools
24:09 and your whatnots,
24:10 when you go over to the US,
24:13 you have a wealth of knowledge
24:16 and certain things that they just don't have.
24:20 But yeah, if it's something that you're trying to do for life,
24:25 you know, the textbook isn't this thin anymore,
24:30 it's this thick.
24:31 And there should never be a thing of,
24:34 "That's too much,"
24:35 or "That's not enough,"
24:37 or "I can't do this."
24:39 I've always seen it as,
24:40 "There's no mountain too big for me to climb."
24:43 But that was only once I realised,
24:46 "I want to do this for life."
24:47 You know, if it was just a quick money grab,
24:49 then it's like,
24:49 "Okay, I can bypass that.
24:51 "Forget that.
24:52 "Don't worry about that."
24:53 But every single thing under the sun
24:55 that is related to acting
24:57 is what I would chase.
25:00 And yeah, theatre before film,
25:04 just because,
25:06 like an agent told me once,
25:09 the thing about theatre is
25:11 even once the performances become a bit redundant or boring,
25:15 find things that are new.
25:17 Like how I did it in for Black Boys was
25:20 I literally forced myself to be present.
25:23 Like if you came to see the show,
25:26 you saw that there was no backstage,
25:28 there was no,
25:29 "Oh, scene three, run off quickly, go catch my..."
25:32 We was on the stage for the whole show.
25:34 So I literally,
25:35 apart from the times that we broke the fourth wall,
25:38 I was here.
25:39 I was in the show.
25:41 Every time I heard something new,
25:43 it was the first time I'd heard it.
25:46 And so where you say it relates back to acting,
25:50 when you're doing your self-tapes
25:51 and there's nobody there
25:54 and you're there responding to nothing
25:56 or there's someone speaking
25:58 and they're not even an actor,
25:59 it's your cousin that's come from wherever
26:02 and he's there reading the lines
26:04 and it's supposed to be a woman.
26:05 He's saying it in this deep voice
26:07 and you're there reacting to it
26:10 and you're like,
26:11 you have being present,
26:14 constantly using active listening
26:19 on all of these things
26:20 that you learn from stage,
26:21 lends itself to screen.
26:24 So screen first, I'd say.
26:27 - Thank you.
26:28 Audience, questions.
26:30 Yes, I will not choose.
26:34 - Hi, morning.
26:38 Thank you for your time.
26:39 I wanted to know two questions.
26:41 Because we can get pigeonholed quite easily
26:44 in this industry,
26:46 have you guys stayed away from certain genres
26:49 or just sticking to theatre right now?
26:51 Have you guys decided that yet?
26:53 If you want to do something else
26:54 like horror next or something else
26:55 or go to TV because you've done theatre?
26:58 And secondly,
27:01 secondly, I wanted to know,
27:03 with your careers now,
27:05 how has that changed
27:08 from when you started to now with theatre?
27:10 What have you learned?
27:12 Thank you.
27:12 - With your first question about pigeonholes,
27:20 I think there is limitations, obviously,
27:25 of how people can see you,
27:27 but the person that you should really worry about,
27:32 or not worry, but care about,
27:34 is how you see yourself
27:35 and what you see for yourself
27:36 and what feels right in your gut.
27:38 It's not so much about steering away,
27:41 but I think it's being honest with myself
27:43 about what feels right
27:45 and what I want to do.
27:47 Because I always say,
27:48 anybody could convince you
27:50 and try to tell you that this is right
27:53 because of X, Y, Z,
27:54 and it could give you X, Y, Z.
27:56 But I always say,
27:56 they're not going to be the ones
27:58 standing up on stage night after night,
28:00 or they're not going to be the ones
28:01 waking up to go to set
28:03 and film it day after day.
28:05 So you have to trust your decision
28:08 and not fear so much
28:11 the consequences of things that you don't do.
28:13 I'm a big believer,
28:15 if it's meant for me, it will be mine.
28:17 And I can't get upset.
28:18 I can be disappointed,
28:20 but I can't get upset
28:20 and mourn it as if it was mine
28:22 if it's gone,
28:23 because if it's not there,
28:25 it's not meant to be.
28:27 So I just trust myself.
28:29 I think that is quite an important thing
28:32 overall for acting,
28:34 even in the doing of acting,
28:36 trusting yourself
28:37 and realising that you're there
28:39 because you know you can do it.
28:41 Somebody else knows you can do it.
28:43 And so, yeah,
28:44 so I just kind of trust.
28:45 And then I'll answer the second one
28:47 and then hand over to you.
28:48 Which was how,
28:52 what have I learnt from theatre?
28:56 And how the careers change.
28:59 I went to drama school
29:02 and the basis of drama school
29:03 is theatre training.
29:04 And what also,
29:08 like if I'm going back, back, back
29:09 to like primary school
29:10 and secondary school,
29:12 all they did was like the musicals
29:13 and the plays.
29:14 So you kind of first start on the stage
29:17 and that's how I first started.
29:19 And I think I've just learnt that
29:25 it's really not about me,
29:26 which is really, really, really freeing
29:30 because the minute you kind of make it
29:33 or think about yourself
29:34 or worry about how you're being perceived,
29:36 even in a moment like this,
29:37 when you're on stage,
29:38 when you're in an audition room,
29:40 like it all kind of becomes here
29:41 and it becomes insular
29:42 and you stop being present
29:44 and you stop giving yourself the opportunity
29:46 to actively listen
29:48 and being the moment.
29:49 Like anything that is worth my while
29:53 is going to be in the person opposite me.
29:55 It has nothing to do with me.
29:57 And I think theatre really encourages that
30:00 because everything about yourself
30:03 is in the moment.
30:04 There's nobody there doing touches
30:06 up on your face
30:07 or, you know, asking you
30:09 if you want a tea or a coffee,
30:10 which, you know,
30:11 is other train of how to stay present
30:14 when those things come in your way.
30:16 But besides the point,
30:18 theatre encourages you to be in a space
30:21 for a long period of time
30:22 without all of the kind of caveats of distraction,
30:27 even though there are distractions happening
30:28 because there's a whole audience of people
30:30 who are coughing,
30:31 whose phone's going off,
30:32 who needs to run to the toilet,
30:34 whose friend's telling a joke.
30:35 All that, all those things are happening.
30:37 They all exist.
30:38 But you're constantly training yourself
30:41 to be present in the moment
30:43 whilst being present in the world
30:45 of everything that's happening.
30:46 And that changes me as a person,
30:49 as a human being,
30:50 which inevitably affects my work.
30:53 So I think if that makes sense,
30:55 that's how I think theatre has helped
30:57 and changed me since I've started.
30:59 But yeah.
31:00 Other than things I literally can't
31:06 physically change about myself,
31:09 there's no real limitations
31:13 I've put on myself
31:14 other than what I won't morally go against.
31:18 Um, yeah.
31:21 I literally, I don't see it as,
31:23 "Ah, these roles are for them
31:25 and these roles are for us and whatnot."
31:27 It's like, look,
31:28 if this is what you want to do for life,
31:31 I keep saying it,
31:33 like, just what you want to do for life,
31:35 you find a way to do it.
31:37 If this is the house you want to get into,
31:38 if you knock on the front door,
31:39 they ain't gonna let you in.
31:40 If there ain't a window cracked open,
31:43 if there ain't a...
31:44 You gotta find a way into the house.
31:45 Like, obviously, a no is a no,
31:48 and you got to learn to take no's in the industry.
31:50 But for most things in life,
31:55 the things that we want to do,
31:56 we find a way to do them.
31:57 If you don't, it's because you didn't really want to do it,
32:00 or you're just going to find an excuse.
32:02 That's the bottom line,
32:03 because there's somebody out there.
32:05 With our industry,
32:06 if you want to relax, that's cool.
32:09 If you want to, you know,
32:11 go partying and do whatever,
32:13 not to say it's a bad thing,
32:15 but there's somebody that has the same script
32:18 that you was given,
32:20 that is at home with a highlighter going ham.
32:23 So, you know, just don't put any limit...
32:28 I personally wouldn't put any limitations on anything,
32:30 because I don't do it for myself,
32:31 other than just blatant obvious, you know.
32:34 And what theatre has taught me,
32:38 or where my mindset is now,
32:42 having done all the things that I've done,
32:44 is there's a lot of work to do.
32:46 There is still a lot of work to do.
32:48 And I don't mean within the industry,
32:50 although it's facts,
32:52 I mean within myself.
32:53 The whole 10,000 hours thing,
32:57 even past the 10,000 hours,
32:59 the work don't stop after 10,000 hours, you know.
33:02 It's constantly, there's always new things to learn.
33:05 And yeah, continue learning all the time.
33:12 - Thank you.
33:13 We've got time for one more question.
33:15 - Oh, I wasn't expecting that.
33:20 Would you say after drama school,
33:25 'cause me personally,
33:30 I would say I'm more screen than theatre,
33:32 would you say after drama school,
33:34 it could be a financial risk in some aspects
33:39 of trying to go for theatre type of thing?
33:44 - Honestly, I think being an actor is a financial risk.
33:50 I so hear your question though,
33:55 'cause money is better in film and TV.
33:58 I think it really does come back to what you want to do.
34:07 Like people do work other jobs
34:09 if like money is a problem like that.
34:12 Like there is things to do,
34:15 there is ways to do it, not easy.
34:17 But I think doing the job
34:21 and not worrying about if that space
34:27 is gonna cause you more harm than good,
34:29 like if it means a lot to you,
34:30 if you're passionate about it,
34:32 if it's the thing that you wanna do for life,
34:35 make a way, 'cause the question was,
34:39 do I think that it's more of a financial risk?
34:42 Probably, but the more important question is,
34:46 if it is, is that gonna stop you?
34:49 And I think that's really idiosyncratic
34:52 to every single person.
34:54 It's a personal thing and it changes
34:56 depending on who you are and where you are in your life.
34:58 So money as an actor is not always simple,
35:04 but if that is the issue,
35:07 then maybe you have to have a talk about yourself
35:10 about if this is the path, career path.
35:12 'Cause even when it's good,
35:14 even when the great job does come,
35:16 it comes and then it goes
35:17 and then you wait on your auditioning
35:19 and you're doing the next thing
35:21 or you fill your time and you get busy and you work
35:23 and you do other things that get you money.
35:26 But it's just not a simple,
35:28 like financially career path period.
35:31 So it's about whether or not
35:33 that is the risk essentially you're wanting to take.
35:36 Because I think every job has risks, right?
35:38 Everything in life, there's a hard,
35:41 but it's like, you pick your hard.
35:43 I pick this hard.
35:45 I pick this one and the hards that come with it.
35:47 But somebody else may think these hards are too hard
35:49 and pick something else.
35:50 So I think it is really independent
35:53 to who you are and where you are
35:55 and what you feel is right for you.
35:57 Yeah.
35:58 - Yeah.
36:00 So I have a job.
36:03 I have a natural job.
36:04 I'm blessed at my job.
36:05 Sort of people that work in my job,
36:07 they don't go to the theatre.
36:08 So I'm very blessed
36:11 and I can literally be a normal person.
36:13 So I would say, do look for jobs.
36:19 Do you look for things other than acting?
36:21 Because naturally you need to eat.
36:24 But what I would say is I'll give you a story.
36:27 It's probably shared it.
36:28 Tom Mucci.
36:30 While he was still who he is,
36:32 the guy was working in, what was it?
36:34 Costa.
36:34 Costa, inside the cinema.
36:37 So not even like just the branch,
36:39 the branch inside the cinema.
36:41 So people are coming,
36:42 multitude of people are coming to Greenwich
36:44 to come watch whatever film.
36:45 They're seeing this guy,
36:46 he's at the height of whatever he's doing.
36:48 I asked him, I was like, bro, like,
36:51 like, what, go on, like, how did you?
36:54 He broke it down to me.
36:56 I said, he said to me, he said,
36:58 what do you need money for?
36:59 What are you trying to do?
37:00 Like, really, what are the things that mean?
37:02 Whatever it is.
37:03 Okay, after you've paid your bills,
37:05 what do you need money for?
37:06 Unless it's acting related
37:10 or whatever it is you're trying to do
37:12 in terms of investing in yourself,
37:13 what do you really need money for?
37:15 So it's like, you can get a waiter in job.
37:18 You could get a barrister job.
37:20 Barista.
37:22 I said barrister.
37:24 - You can be a lawyer.
37:27 - Um, well, you could be an acting barrister as well.
37:30 I mean, you could like.
37:31 - I mean, go ahead.
37:32 If you can balance the two, kudos to you, my boy.
37:34 But what I'm saying is,
37:37 do look for other things other than acting
37:41 because you need to feed yourself.
37:42 You might have other commitments that,
37:44 you know, we were not privy to,
37:46 but don't kill yourself looking for money
37:51 because it's anything worthwhile
37:55 is usually is more than money, you know?
37:58 So like she said, it's what you want to do.
38:00 So.
38:02 - I love that.
38:03 Thank you for your honesty as well, Mark.
38:05 Well, that is it for our taking the stage session.
38:09 Can we have a round of applause for our guests?