Alleged Plot To Oust IGP: Wild allegations have brought pain to my family - IGP | The Big Stories
Alleged Plot To Oust IGP: Wild allegations have brought pain to my family - IGP | The Big Stories
#AMShow
#TheBigStories
#MyJoyOnline
https://www.myjoyonline.com/ghana-news/
Subscribe for more videos just like this:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChd1DEecCRlxaa0-hvPACCw/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joy997fm
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Joy997FM
Instagram: https://bit.ly/3J2l57
Click on this for more news:
https://www.myjoyonline.com/
#AMShow
#TheBigStories
#MyJoyOnline
https://www.myjoyonline.com/ghana-news/
Subscribe for more videos just like this:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChd1DEecCRlxaa0-hvPACCw/
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joy997fm
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Joy997FM
Instagram: https://bit.ly/3J2l57
Click on this for more news:
https://www.myjoyonline.com/
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00 Honorable Chair, at a time that we were making it, without a shred of evidence.
00:07 And Honorable Chair, those wide allegations without a shred of evidence has brought a lot of pain to myself, my family, across the country, and especially my wife and children.
00:26 That you are so patriotic because you believe in what you call Pan-Ghanianism.
00:33 Where you think that because of your multi-ethnic nature, everybody you see as long as they are present in Ghana is your brother or sister, mother or father, uncle or aunt.
00:47 Then the pain also to my command, my leaders, my team that we work together, that we all know.
00:56 And the pain to the thousands of police people who are appreciating the strides that we are making in transforming the organization to be the best institution in the country and a reference point for the rest of the world.
01:11 They keep making all these allegations in order to cover up probably the shame and sweetness of what they got themselves involved in in the first place.
01:23 And I, an innocent person, focusing on my job, working in concert with my team and all commands across the country to keep the country safe and make it to be at peace with itself.
01:39 I've been asked to come and answer to these allegations, which are wide-based.
01:46 And I felt in my spirit that this is just not fair.
01:53 It is just not fair.
01:58 Are we killing patriotism? That anybody can just get up, make allegations upon allegations, and people who go across the country at times 48 hours non-stop without sleep, just keeping the country at peace, will be called to come and answer allegations that are unfounded.
02:20 And that becomes something.
02:23 Anyway, I'm here. I have no choice.
02:29 I have no choice and I have come.
02:33 And I say to the glory of God, my maker who sustains me every day, I will speak to the matters as you direct.
02:43 And I'm doing this because of the respect I have for myself, for my family, especially my children and wife, for the office that I occupy, for my brothers and sisters who are sitting behind me, that we have pulled ourselves together in an unprecedented manner in a team way to get these things done for this country.
03:08 And for the respect I have for institutions of state, including the parliament that we are here today.
03:17 And more importantly, the respect I have for Mr. President Adnan Gokufuadu, for the honor that he has done me, for making me the Inspired General of Police to work with my colleagues.
03:30 And equally, more importantly, for the respect I have for the good people of this country.
03:38 So, honorable chair, I am here being asked to answer to why allegations unsubstantiated by my brothers in order to cover up their shame.
03:51 I am ready. I thank you.
03:53 The point I'm trying to make is the fact that we are all human beings. And at times, these things happen. You may have all what it takes to handle all the situations.
04:09 But when you are speaking to a matter and the feeling of how you feel comes on board, it's normal.
04:16 And the most important thing is that I understand all the issues you are raising. And I'm in sync with it because I am a true Christian.
04:25 Now, do you have a working relationship with Chief Boke Nambu?
04:34 Honorable chair, I do not have a working relationship with him.
04:44 Probably my brother wanted to say I'm the best and he missed it.
04:52 Because the records are there for everybody to see.
04:58 The beauty of mankind is that everybody has an opinion and you can express it in any form or shape.
05:09 But that has not changed the facts.
05:14 And this is the point. Honorable chair, since my colleagues and I and the rest of the commands across the country had the opportunity by the grace of God
05:27 and the honor done me by his excellency the president Nana Adedanko-Ekufo-Addo, we committed ourselves to transforming the organization to become the best institution in the country
05:39 and a reference point for Africa and beyond in a teamwork fashion based on Genesis 1, 26.
05:51 So we've been granted that I'm the worst. Then all of us collectively are the worst.
05:58 And my brother was serving in that capacity as a member of the team that I lead.
06:05 So I think it was a slip of the tongue on his part.
06:08 [Music]
06:37 Welcome back on the AM show. And that's how we kickstart our big stories.
06:40 You've seen the scenes from Parliament yesterday. That committee sitting, probing into that, the allegations, the leaked state, the allegations made by COP Alex Mensah and of course George Asare,
06:57 the superintendent George Asare. Well, joining me in the studio, Samuel Mbura. He's on our political desk and he's been following this matter to a T.
07:08 Mr Mbura, a very good morning to you, sir.
07:10 Good morning, my brother. It's been a while.
07:11 I had to do Mr Mbura.
07:13 It's been a while.
07:14 You're a big man.
07:15 I'm sure you had a wonderful time during your leave.
07:18 My leave? My leave was full of work.
07:20 I see.
07:21 It wasn't a leave. I never left. It was just full of work.
07:25 We're back and of course this issue has been simmering. Parliament has been looking at it. Bugrin Abukin spoke his bit. He said he didn't lie. He says, "I never lie. I'm someone of very principled. I'm a chief and I don't lie."
07:41 The principle, the tradition is that if you're a chief and you lie, you die. That's what he said from where he's coming from, northeast region.
07:47 Right.
07:48 So what he told-
07:49 If you lie, you die.
07:50 That's what he told the committee.
07:51 Right.
07:52 So with this, what he told the committee about this tape is the entire truth, nothing but the truth, per what he said.
07:59 And now we've seen subsequent tapes.
08:01 Yeah.
08:02 Okay? With Bugrin Abu in there, there's been talk about the 10,000. And yesterday that culminated in the question posed by Attachia in reference to what the relationship is between the IGP and Bugrin Abu, whether they have a working relationship or something of the sort.
08:19 Yeah.
08:20 And he denounced it. He said, "No." He was asked whether Bugrin Abu had ever come to his office. He initially said, to his knowledge, he did not know and all of that.
08:31 But just give us, walk us through briefly what transpired yesterday.
08:35 So yesterday, the IGP, or the first time the IGP appeared before the committee, after all the witnesses took their turns to testify before the committee, we know the first was Bugrin Abu, followed by COP Alex Mensah, JB Osuso, and Superintendent Eric JB had his turn.
08:52 He said he wasn't actually part of the recording in the tape, but his name was mentioned in the tape. He was interrogated for about a few hours and then later released.
09:02 So at the moment, all the witnesses have been released, but can be called back at any time. That's why we are seeing the committee inviting them back for further interrogation.
09:11 So the IGP appeared yesterday. And then the information I have is that it was based on his request that he should testify or respond to the allegations in public.
09:24 You know, there was an earlier consideration of going private with the entire conversation because the IGP was coming.
09:34 So the argument was that this borders on national security, so having the whole IGP appearing before the committee, he may say something that would be sensitive and then could hurt national security.
09:47 So that decision was later rescinded. Then they brought him back for the public hearing. So that's where he had an opportunity to respond to the myriad of allegations against him.
09:59 So before then, there were objections from his lawyer, the renowned lawyer Kwame John, on the mandate of the committee.
10:08 He felt that the committee was exceeding his mandate. He made reference to the terms and references of the committee.
10:17 And especially when I remember when Atatia said something about not forgiving too quickly because there could be other things that could come up.
10:25 And then that caused some concern for the IGP. He stated that vehemently.
10:29 Exactly. So the lawyer was of the view that one, it's like you are exceeding your mandate, your terms and references.
10:38 But the committee chairman, Mr. Atatia, came and explained and overruled that there were other issues about the presence of other witnesses.
10:46 The three witnesses that were before the committee, we had Superintendent George Asare, who is with the protocol unit at the headquarters of the Ghana Police Service.
10:59 We had Superintendent Eric Emmanuel Ojebe. He is the director of the Forensic Lab headquarters CID department.
11:10 So including COP Alex Mensah, who is retiring in the next three days or so. I'm told he's 16 or so that he's retiring this month.
11:20 So he was also there with his lawyer. So his lawyer, Kwame John, raised objections about the presence of these witnesses.
11:26 And then he was of the view that at the time they were testifying, the IGP did not get the opportunity to sit before them.
11:33 So it was only fair for them to leave the presence of the committee and then allow his client to also testify.
11:42 However, the chairman wanted the lawyer to convince him that they were likely to suffer any injury with the presence of the witnesses.
11:51 So all these back and forth were actually overruled by the chairman of the committee.
11:56 And then the proceedings began with Dr. Akufo-Dampare coming to testify to the allegations.
12:03 On the face of it, of course, there was cross-examination, if you like, from the other side yesterday, as far as Dr. Dampare is concerned.
12:12 Today, he has to make a return. But for you, from what you saw from day one, his responses, let's look at the body language.
12:19 For example, body language of IGP Dampare versus the body language of someone like COP Alex Mensah.
12:26 Clearly distinct. Clearly, I mean, Alex Mensah was more bombastic and all of that.
12:33 People expected that the IGP would, but he was pretty calm.
12:36 Yeah, so if you know the IGP, that is his nature. He is soft-spoken. He's a soft-spoken type.
12:40 And we know Alex Mensah with what's he, I mean, in his body language, in his communication, informal communication with people,
12:50 you know that he's the type that is outspoken, unlike the IGP who is a soft-spoken type and all that.
12:55 So it wasn't surprising to have heard the IGP going soft on the issues.
12:59 And if you look at the way he runs the Ghana Police Service, he does that on more or less a brotherly manner.
13:05 He prefers to call his colleagues "my brother," "my brother," per what he told the committee.
13:11 And sometimes during police engagements, I sometimes hear him refer to some of his colleagues as his brothers and all that.
13:17 So, yes, the IGP by nature is the soft-spoken type, but one would have expected that with the level of allegations against him,
13:25 maybe he would have been furious. But he realized that he got emotionally hurt, and his emotions were even shown to the point that he's...
13:32 He nearly cried.
13:33 Yeah, he was even at the verge of crying. It took his lawyer, lawyer Kwame Jan, to pat him on the back,
13:39 with the support of another officer by him, to just give him that morale that he should continue.
13:44 That's where you heard him saying, "It is not just fair." In a faint voice, "It is not just fair," and all that.
13:50 So emotions came in, but he was able to control it. At the point, I realized that he was getting angry when he said that
13:57 he has no option than to appear and respond to the allegations against him by his brothers in their attempt to cover their shame.
14:05 So at a point, he was soft, but...
14:07 We'll get into that bit about covering their shame, because he kept repeating that.
14:11 But let's also go over the lines and interact with a legal practitioner, a former police officer himself, Justin Pwafra Teriwaja.
14:21 Mr. Teriwaja, a very good morning to you, sir.
14:23 Yeah, good morning.
14:24 Thank you so much for joining us, and sorry for holding you on the line. It's my fault. My apologies for that.
14:30 That's okay.
14:32 On the back of everything we've seen, I mean, I have not personally engaged you on this matter.
14:38 So we can start from COP Alex Mensah, George Asare, Supo, among others, and their time before the committee, and now the IGP.
14:50 What are the linkages that you see, and what do you make of the process so far?
14:56 For me, in my opinion, I think that the IGP's appearance, as his lawyer objected, could easily have been dispensed with, looking at the terms of reference of the committee.
15:10 You mean it could have been done away with? We didn't have to do this?
15:13 Yes, yes, yes. But probably the IGP is also itching to have his day.
15:18 And what I saw yesterday, it looked more like a PR blitz for the IGP.
15:24 Okay.
15:25 Yes, it did well for his image as an IGP, and throughout, he was able to make a case that he's the best person for the job.
15:34 And that's what I see in all of this drama that is unfolding, that he's making a case that he's a solid man, qualified for the job, and he should be retained.
15:44 That's all that I see in the drama that is unfolding.
15:48 And the villains of the piece are these three officers who are the beleaguered three officers, as we all know, that they try to take the job from him and try to give the impression that he wasn't the best man for the job.
16:04 And so the man is coming to Parliament to show to what extent he's the best person for the job.
16:10 He even explained that he's performed better than all former IGPs that have come before him, and that he's trying to lay a foundation for future IGPs to even do much more.
16:23 So I guess it's more like a PR campaign for the IGP.
16:28 What did you make of that statement, though?
16:30 He asserts himself, of course, the point he makes there is on the back of comments by the senior officers who have been probed already, who intimated Alex Mensah, to be specific, said that he was the worst IGP ever.
16:45 So he also came and said that, in fact, he jokingly said that.
16:49 I'm sure he was trying to say best. And he said worse than all of that.
16:52 So he had to defend himself. But in defending himself, did he overdo it, for example, suggesting that maybe he's the best we've seen?
17:02 He had to defend himself. In any case, in my thinking, I was thinking that, look, from the context in which COP Alex Mensah tried to say bad things about the IGP, it was obvious that these were not things that he was honest about.
17:21 This is somebody who said early on, even in the same recording, that if this man remained as IGP, then mafia tactics could not be employed to break the heat.
17:32 And that he needed to come and employ mafia tactics to help the current government break the heat.
17:39 Now, that alone speaks volumes about the IGP. For me, that alone, the damage was done to the person who's speaking already.
17:45 So if on the back of that, you go ahead and now say other things uncomplimentary of the same person, especially when you now appear before the ad hoc committee, the parliamentary committee,
17:57 you now appear before that committee, and you are now saying very opposite things to what you had said when you knew you were not being recorded.
18:05 Now, if I'm to compare these two, what you said in confidence to Burinabu about this man, which was very, very complimentary of him,
18:12 and then what you say when you appear before the committee with all the cameras on you and the whole nation listening,
18:18 and you're now trying to say the very opposite. Now, if I am to compare these two, which one should I believe?
18:24 So it was obvious, to the standing minds, that the damage had been done. The whole thing had boomeranged on COP and X-Mas badly.
18:33 So in that context, even if the IGP didn't have the opportunity to come and respond, the damage was done.
18:40 And it was clear who the villain was and who the saint was in this piece.
18:44 So the IGP getting this opportunity for a media or PR blade, it is just like a shot in the arm for him to explain how he is the best person for the job
18:55 and why he should be retained till after 2024. That's all that I'm seeing in all this drama.
19:01 In other words, you're trying to say that COP Alex Mensah did damage to himself, and now he's trying to...
19:10 So let me ask you this. Some have said that, of course, the IGP has come to explain himself. Today he'll be back.
19:18 But like you said, Alex Mensah didn't know he was being recorded. His deportment, his demeanor was very different.
19:26 Then when he had been recorded and came before the committee probing the matter, he painted those who supposedly had recorded him, Bukiri N'Abu and the others, in a bad light.
19:39 Are you saying then that some of the things he said were merely to justify what had brought him before the committee in terms of the leaked tape?
19:49 I don't know whether you get the context of what I'm saying.
19:52 I get it. I get it exactly. And exactly the IGP referred to that when he said that they had gotten themselves into some disgrace and they were then trying to wiggle out.
20:01 The IGP probably didn't use the exact words, but I remember he mentioned they were disgraced.
20:05 That they got themselves into a hole and they were then trying to get out.
20:09 And then they felt probably so mad at the IGP who helped them clean their own images.
20:15 In that context, that's why I felt that even if the IGP didn't come and Ghanaians are dissenting people,
20:24 what you say about somebody in private and without knowing that you are being recorded, I would put much more premium on that than what you say in the open when you know everybody is watching.
20:40 Then you are putting up an act. And so between the two, it was clear to any dissenting person that this is an IGP who was upright in doing his job fairly and firmly and efficiently.
20:52 But because they wanted his job, the only thing he said about the IGP was that he was not politically aligned in the secret recording
20:59 and that he was going to be politically aligned to do the bidding of one side.
21:03 And that was his selling point for wanting to become IGP.
21:08 And so the damage was clear. So by appearing before the committee, COP, Alex Mesa and others, and admitting that this was their voices, it was clear from that point for me.
21:19 And I said that the IGP's appearance is, well, it could have been dispensed with, but it's an opportunity for him and his message for a PR blitz.
21:31 When the issue of lobbying came in, I mean, the IGP himself didn't really have anything against it.
21:38 I think a question was posed in respect of whether Bugri Nabu had even put in a word for him before he became IGP,
21:48 though he mentioned that he did not have any relationship, real relationship with Bugri Nabu.
21:55 But before we come and focus on Bugri Nabu, I want us to look at other things.
21:59 The IGP may have come through and scathed as of yesterday, but there have been claims about his forming, is it the Dampari forces?
22:07 Special unit among others in that there have been accusations about promotions.
22:14 There have been accusations about visits of the former president, John Romani Mahama, which he said never happened.
22:21 And in any case, he clarified that, look, I am here to serve all citizens. And in case if the former president were to say that for X or Y reason, he wanted to see me, I wouldn't denounce him.
22:33 He is a citizen of the land. All of this is playing into the political terrain. What does it do to the IGP in terms of his image?
22:44 It's like putting his image on steroids. That's how I see it. That if he had not come, if he had not taken his stand before the committee, the damage had already been done against his opponent.
22:58 But then giving him this opportunity was exactly what he wanted to show off his image as an IGP.
23:06 And I believe today's proceedings will continue along that line.
23:10 So you feel the IGP has scored his three points against his his his opponents, so to speak.
23:16 So much so. So much so. All right.
23:19 He has got four points so far and we see what happens today. And I think we're going to continue on the same trajectory.
23:26 Before we get into what your expectations are of IGP Dampari today and maybe what you see happening at the end of all of this, Bukirinabu is also set to come back.
23:35 You've seen the subsequent videos that emerged post the leaked tape. We've also seen the video where he talks about 10,000 Ghana cities that is paid to him,
23:45 which brought about the questions of the relationship between the IGP and Bukirinabu.
23:51 What does that also create by way of I don't want to say by way of the IGP in terms of his relationship with Bukirinabu?
24:02 What would it say if if there were some evidence that, in fact, the IGP knew that these people were going to be recorded?
24:14 In other words, he had foreknowledge of the recording of the three.
24:21 If he had foreknowledge and he had a hand in it, then it further shows that in terms of intelligence,
24:29 he probably is better at the job than those who are trying to take his job.
24:34 Because if a whole commission of police can end up in such a situation, walking into a trap without knowing,
24:42 I mean, suspecting anything at all, then it gives the impression that he probably wouldn't be better at the job than the current IGP.
24:51 So if the IGP is the one who really masterminded this, then it's even a thumbs up for him.
24:57 It shows that when it comes to national security, he will be able to perform much, much better.
25:02 And we have to also be mindful of the fact that there are so many coups around in West Africa.
25:08 And if we have an IGP who can infiltrate the enemy camp and then bust it like this, then it shows that, look, this is somebody who really deserves his job.
25:16 So you're suggesting that on the part of COP Alex Mensah, you know, George Azari and others, this would be ineptitude and, you know, aptitude, if you like, for the IGP.
25:28 But what do you say about these tactics?
25:32 You know, in a court of law, for example, there are certain considerations when it comes to recording someone without their foreknowledge.
25:40 Would this be right if it were proven that he somehow was behind it? Would it be right?
25:48 The Supreme Court has ruled on this. And for fighting crime and other kinds of unlawful behavior, it is right.
25:59 Because if you are to carry, the right to privacy has to be balanced against the rights of the public.
26:07 The public can, let me repeat that.
26:09 But my question, pardon the intervention, my question is, in this instance, is it crime being fought?
26:15 These are people who purportedly solely are going for his job. That's all they're doing.
26:20 But it has national security implications. Because they were going for the job and did themselves on their own admission.
26:27 The reason was to employ mafia tactics to cheat on the elections, I mean to cheat during the elections, you understand.
26:33 So then it has national security implications. We have a year or so where it's all gone, where people suffered some, I mean,
26:41 we have stigma traps where people lost their lives. And then if this is done, and this is just at constituency level,
26:49 so if this is now brought up to the national level and replicated, you can imagine the national security implications of such behavior.
26:58 So then if, this is even more than crime. Because if the whole nation is to end up like what happened in Tsimasap and Asawa,
27:06 a year or so where it's all gone, you can imagine what will happen to this country.
27:10 So if an IEP is able to infiltrate the other camp to thwart such efforts, then it is kudos to him.
27:17 So this type of behavior, if somebody has to record you, I think it is all well and good.
27:22 Because the Supreme Court has made exceptions to the right to privacy against recording people without their permission.
27:28 There are exceptions for fighting crime and issues of that nature.
27:31 So a recording of this nature should not be against the law, per how the Supreme Court has interpreted the constitution along that line.
27:39 What do you make of the interdiction which was implemented, enforced, and then withdrawn?
27:45 Yesterday the IGP spoke about it, mentioning that he recused himself. He had nothing to do with that situation.
27:53 And then the bit about promotions as well. There has been a lot of talk about that.
27:57 He says he's not done anything out of the ordinary. There are systems in place. There are things that should be done.
28:05 And he's just going according to the processes. What do you make of those two?
28:10 On the issue of interdiction, in my opinion, the interdiction is more of an administrative measure.
28:20 And when it comes to administrative measures, it comes under the executive arm of government.
28:26 And as I was saying, under Article 130 of the constitution, the Parliament of Ghana has power to set up such committees to help parliaments discharge its functions properly.
28:39 So if an ad hoc committee is set up by one arm of government, it does not preclude another arm of government from also performing its role.
28:49 That's my candid opinion.
28:54 Article 103 enables the Parliament to set up such committees to help parliaments sharpen its focus in its deliberations and in making legislation.
29:13 So that is on the legislative side.
29:16 But when it comes to the executive side, where the police administration is part of the executive arm of government,
29:22 they also have their limit. And when interdiction is--the people are interdicted,
29:28 it will not be right for someone to say because the legislative arm of government is acting on it, then you cannot--the executive arm of government must wait.
29:38 I say this in--and I'll draw this example.
29:43 For instance, when a policeman shoots someone wrongly, he can be prosecuted, and while the prosecution is going on, a civil suit may also be going on in a different court.
29:55 And thirdly, an administrative disciplinary trial may still continue.
29:59 So all this, they can run concurrently against a policeman when he misbehaves.
30:03 So why should it be that when the executive arm is taking action against the same police officer,
30:09 then they are a legislative arm must wait, or when the legislative arm is deliberating on it, then the executive arm must wait?
30:18 It is not the case. These can run concurrently.
30:21 And one of your panelists said this morning that COP Alex Mesa has--is left with just a few days to go on retirement.
30:29 So then what happens when he goes on retirement?
30:33 You went--so you are going to interdict him again when he's now on retirement.
30:38 Shouldn't the interdiction precede the retirement for a matter to be looked into?
30:42 So you are not for the withdrawal of the interdiction?
30:47 At all. I think that--
30:49 You would have wanted the interdiction to be maintained.
30:52 Exactly. Because, you see, it is a different kettle of fish altogether.
30:56 So while the executive arm of government has interdicted him and it is being looked at,
31:01 it should be looked at dispassionately and independent of the legislative--what the legislative arm is doing,
31:07 because they are operating under different regimes.
31:11 You have called what was done--you have said that it borders on national security.
31:17 Do you feel what COP Alex Mesa and others did is treasonous?
31:24 It borders on that. I would not say clearly that it is treason, but it borders on that,
31:30 because if you look at the definition of treason, I am not too sure whether that satisfies the definition
31:36 or the ingredients of treason.
31:38 This is the head of the police service in Ghana, part of our security apparatus,
31:45 and with the police council chaired by the vice president, take away the military,
31:51 it's the police service, in fact, that guarantees security within the borders of the country.
31:58 And if there is a plot to oust the head of that service, which also is part of the executive arm of government,
32:06 what does that mean?
32:08 But it was a plot to oust him in accordance with law, because then if the IGP can--
32:15 even this morning, the IGP probably last night had a bad dream about the IGP--
32:19 sorry, about--the president probably had a bad dream about the IGP, and you can change him this morning.
32:24 So the president needs no aside reasons why he wants to change the IGP.
32:28 And I think it was in that light that COP Alex Mester wanted to have his bite at the IGP position
32:35 before leaving the police service.
32:37 So he was more like a discreet person who would say anything just to also get the chance of going out
32:43 as a former IGP. That is how I see this.
32:46 And he was doing it, the lobbying, yes, in accordance with the law, and trying to get the IGP replaced.
32:53 And the IGP himself even referred to this. He said there are three types of people,
32:57 someone who would do anything just to get the position, another person who would lobby conscientiously,
33:03 somebody else may even not lobby at all.
33:05 He'd be sitting down, and then people would think that, look, you are the right person by your track record,
33:10 so we want to appoint you.
33:11 So they would look for him and encourage him to take the position.
33:15 So he said there are three types of people.
33:16 And he felt that what the other officers did was crossing the line.
33:21 They went beyond what would amount to conscientious lobbying.
33:28 So before I throw my final bits at you, you've not answered the bit about promotions,
33:33 but before even you get there, so from what you've heard so far from the two sides,
33:38 the IGP side and the other side, from everything you've told me,
33:42 you are leaning more towards believing the IGP, right?
33:46 So far, until evidence is brought to the contrary.
33:51 Because for me, I placed much premium on what was said about the IGP in confidence
33:58 when they were not being recorded.
34:01 And that one really means a lot to me.
34:05 But that was the honest truth.
34:07 Okay. So just to cap off with you, promotions, you've not spoken about that,
34:13 and what your expectations are today as the parliamentary probe continues.
34:17 Do you feel in terms of the promotions, from what has been said and the IGP's response,
34:22 has he done anything out of the ordinary?
34:25 Is he doing anything that is not what is expected in the police service?
34:31 In terms of promotions, pardon me, but I didn't particularly listen to what he said about promotions.
34:39 I must be frank, because I was busy running up and down.
34:43 Okay, so if I may just brief you, you know, there had been talk about the fact that
34:47 some people were due for promotion, junior officers and even senior officers,
34:51 who were due for further promotion, who had not been promoted in a while.
34:55 And yesterday he explained that it had nothing to do with him.
34:57 There was a system running and they were going according to the system.
35:02 There was a claim that for him, within I think a seven year period,
35:05 he had moved from, I think, was it superintendent?
35:09 To quite a high level.
35:11 But he explained that there were certain things that pertained then,
35:14 that may not necessarily pertain now.
35:17 So that's just the summary for you.
35:19 Okay. I get that now.
35:22 So that matter may have to be probed further.
35:25 But I must be honest here.
35:29 There is a case concerning promotion of a number of officers that I'm involved in.
35:33 And our case is that they have been treated unfairly as far as promotion is concerned.
35:39 So I am a bit -- I have to restrain myself in how far I would have to go
35:46 as far as this matter is concerned, because I am a lawyer for a number of police officers
35:51 in a related matter where our case is that our clients have not been properly treated according to law
36:00 and that there has been unfair treatment and discrimination against them.
36:03 So I would not be the best person to comment on this in a very fair manner.
36:10 I must be frank with you.
36:12 Expectations ahead of today. We are likely to see Bugri Nnabu.
36:14 We have the IGP back. And there may be an in-camera session.
36:18 We do not know about that yet.
36:20 Your expectations?
36:24 My expectations are, well, unless something comes up that we are not aware of.
36:31 From what we have seen so far, this is just a PR blitz for the IGP.
36:35 That's what I would say.
36:37 So, well, once we are going into an in-camera session, for me, I would say we should hold our horses.
36:43 Let's see what comes out of it.
36:45 In-camera session, the difficulty is whether what comes out of it will not be treated under the rubric of national security and kept under wraps.
36:54 So it's a bit tricky there.
36:57 Whether we will even ever get to know the outcome of what goes on in-camera.
37:02 All right. We also know the National Security Minister Albert Kandapa will be before the committee today.
37:08 In fact, yesterday, the chairman of the committee, Attachi, made mention of the fact that he would also have to appear.
37:15 I think the question about what happens at the end of all of this, even after the parliamentary probe, likely within the police service system and everything that has happened.
37:25 Maybe we should leave that for another day, right?
37:28 I should think so.
37:30 But as I said, under Article 103 of the Constitution, that is what parliamentary action is going by.
37:37 And it's more about sharpening the focus of parliament for its work.
37:41 So let's see how this will impact on parliamentary work.
37:45 Is it that parliament is considering a reform, an amendment of the Police Service Act, amendment of the Constitution, restructuring the police?
37:53 I don't know. Let's wait and see what this will lead to.
38:00 All right. Well, thank you so much for joining the conversation.
38:05 He's a former police officer, also a legal practitioner.
38:09 Justin Pwavra Teriwaja joined the conversation there.
38:14 Let me come back into the studio. So, interesting, interesting conversation we've had so far with him.
38:19 And he represents police officers, so he knows he's been there.
38:22 He knows what the system is.
38:23 He was actually at the prosecution unit of the Ghana police.
38:25 So he knows what the dealings are in the Ghana police.
38:29 And that's why he said he was a bit constrained to talk about promotion.
38:32 On the promotion bit, you know, there are issues of junior officers not being promoted.
38:37 In the hierarchy of the Ghana police service, every four years, it is a standard practice that you move either from a lance corporal to a corporal or corporal to sergeant.
38:45 That is how it goes. But there are other promotions that come based on merits or recommendations.
38:51 So the board or your superiors can recommend that Benjamin, who is a chief supervisor, should be promoted to the next rank.
39:01 So if it is something that is agreed on, then you'll be promoted.
39:05 So Dr. Dan Parry gave the explanation that the police management board sits to take such decisions.
39:12 He's not the only person who can just get up and say, "I am promoting this person. I'm not promoting that person."
39:17 So that's why he said any person in the service that has been due for promotion, that has been duly done.
39:23 But there are exceptional issues that we understand over 82 of them, or the senior officers, have sued the IGP over rates.
39:32 So yesterday I even asked the chairman of the committee whether they are likely to invite these petitioners.
39:37 They've also petitioned the committee as well. They have an input to the probe.
39:41 So the chairman indicated that, yes, they have not even looked at their petition yet, but if need be, they will invite them,
39:49 so that they'll be able to broaden their investigations into the whole issue.
39:53 So today we are actually expecting, I don't know if it's a showdown or whatever,
39:58 but one thing you should note is that IGP in his appearance before the committee came with almost all heads of the departments,
40:05 from GP1 himself to the deputy IGP, who is a COP, Teto Yohunu, and all the departments at the Ghana Police Service were there.
40:14 So if it has to do with issues that's borders on recruitment or whatsoever,
40:17 so those people are there to clarify on some of these allegations.
40:21 So I'm sure that will unravel in the course of the in-camera interrogation,
40:26 but today we are not sure yet. Until we get to the committee, we don't know whether it will be in camera or it will be made public.
40:35 Can we expect any cross-examinations today?
40:38 I mean, yesterday we saw a bit of that, the lawyers, and there was this lawyer with a baritone who would come in.
40:45 But we've heard the IGP's point. I don't know whether at any point we're going to be hearing from the other side again,
40:54 especially as mentioned was made yesterday of some evidence that will be adduced before the committee.
41:00 So the evidence will be in camera. So we hear from the National Security Minister, Albert Kandapa,
41:06 whom the chairman said he is expected to appear.
41:09 The reason he's appearing is because the witnesses, some of the witnesses, that's Eric Emmanuel Jebe,
41:15 had already appeared before the National Investigation Bureau, NIB, on the same leak tip.
41:22 So they want to find out what that ministry has gathered so far as this leak tip is concerned,
41:28 so that it will give them a wider perspective on the direction they'll go with this whole report.
41:33 You know there is a fact-finding committee that are supposed to report what they have
41:36 and perhaps make recommendation, excuse me, make recommendation to parliament.
41:41 Parliament will accept or reject, and then later the speaker will take a decision on it.
41:47 If there's a need for reforms in the Ghana Police Service, it will be communicated.
41:52 But from the issues that are coming up, you realize that it is a systematic problem in the Ghana Police Service.
41:59 And that is what the IGP explained, talking about why the grievances are coming up and all that.
42:05 But we are hoping to hear more as it unravels.
42:09 But it is not everything that we put in the public domain.
42:12 It's just the case that people are, aside the allegations, people are trying to question the administration of the Akufu Danpare.
42:19 Beyond what these officers who are insiders are saying, what has he done in the service?
42:24 Is it the case that these are people who are resisting change in the Ghana Police Service,
42:28 or they really have genuine concerns about the administration of Akufu Danpare?
42:33 And if you go to social media, at a time that, I don't know whether you have the time to go through,
42:37 but at the time that he was testifying before the committee, people were giving their commentaries or testimonies about the work of the IGP.
42:46 I followed. I intentionally followed.
42:48 I also, you know, at a point I was driving, so I was listening, but then I took my phone, went live, looked at the stream,
42:54 and I could see maybe 90 plus percent were saying very positive things about it.
42:59 You know, one of the issues that caught my attention had to do with the fact that visibility of the Ghana Police Service under Akufu Danpare has been intensified.
43:08 If you look at most of the highways, even from, you remember there was even some travel alert by some foreign companies,
43:15 I mean, countries, to DR citizens in Ghana, using the northern sector.
43:20 You might mention of all those routes.
43:22 At some point you probably could imply those routes.
43:24 Yes, so you couldn't use those routes in other areas as well.
43:27 They were dangerous, but we now have highway patrol teams there, and also the lower ranks have been empowered.
43:33 Some of the commentaries that we read and the checks, they have been empowered now to even arrest politicians.
43:40 The chairman himself, Mr. Samoa Thachia, indicated that his driver was even arrested.
43:45 Right now if you are using airports, the airport police, the least mistake you make, they will definitely arrest you.
43:52 Whether you are driving on the shoulders of the road, you are driving recklessly, you will be arrested.
43:57 Just about a week and a half or less, I saw someone at the association school going down, where you can turn left towards the mall, right, heading back to 37.
44:09 And this Ben's car had meandered, I think he went through the red, and they stopped him right there.
44:14 And I noticed that he was going to be hot.
44:16 Oh yes.
44:17 I waited for the green and went.
44:19 The first that you arrest someone, the person thinks I know someone at the top, let me call so they will release my vehicle.
44:25 That is no longer the situation.
44:28 So a junior officer arrests you with the supervision of an inspector or chief inspector, they take you through the process, take you to court, fine you.
44:35 And those monies go into the coffers of the country, and it contributes to our revenue generation.
44:41 I find something problematic, you know, the whole bit about, oh, I am an MP, I am a minister, or I am this, I am that.
44:47 If you've broken the law, you've broken the law.
44:49 It reminds me of an anecdote from way back, where a police officer in the UK supposedly arrested a group of people, and one came out and said, oh, I am Sir Cedric, and this is Sir this, and Lord that.
45:03 The officer replied, I don't care whether it's the entire round table of King Arthur, you are getting a summons.
45:10 I mean, it's as simple as, the British Prime Minister, former British Prime Minister, Boris Johnson.
45:16 You remember he had his own issues with, it doesn't really matter.
45:19 So when they were discussing that bit though, I felt, politicians have become too, you are a politician, so what?
45:25 That was one of the allegations, that he's using his office to hunt down big men in the MPP.
45:30 And even when one of them was testifying, big men in the MPP.
45:33 Too big to follow the traffic regulations.
45:35 That is a problem here.
45:36 So Mr Attaché even indicated he was there, his driver, was arrested by the police.
45:41 He wouldn't use his influence as a member of parliament, or whoever he is in the MPP to influence, whatever.
45:47 So if you are caught by the law, you are caught by the law, has he done anything contrary to the law?
45:51 So these are some of the issues that we're looking into, these allegations of, he using his position to hunt down MPP members in favour of the NDC,
46:02 with the expectation that they'll return him a favour of retention when the NDC comes out.
46:07 And you know he responded to that, that he is not on the road himself, and no one targets, I mean,
46:12 probably you wouldn't even be able to know that this is an MP, or this is a minister's car.
46:16 You can't see a Land Cruiser or something and immediately assume it belongs to this or that person.
46:24 And you wouldn't even be able to know that this is NDC or MPP.
46:27 There's a tall list of dignitaries that have been arrested by the police, including journalists.
46:32 Our own colleagues, senior colleagues, they have been arrested.
46:35 Four calls were made, the man said, look, you have faltered, you have to go through the process.
46:40 So these are some of the issues that came up before the committee and the committee chairman,
46:46 and I like the way Mr Attachia is handling the whole issue, when he realises that everything is getting tensed up,
46:52 he brings in an icebreaker and then at least relaxes everything and then we move on with the probe and all that.
46:59 So a whole lot is going to come up out from the revelations that we are expecting today,
47:06 especially with the National Security Minister.
47:08 If he appears and then it will be public telecast, fine, we'll get to know the details.
47:14 But if it is a case that is going to be on in-camera, maybe the committee will come and address us afterwards,
47:19 then we'll look at the way forward.
47:21 But all witnesses, including Daniel Bouguere, he couldn't come yesterday because we were told that his lawyer
47:26 wrote to them that he had equally important House of Chiefs duties.
47:29 You know he's a chief in Namba, in the North East region, so he couldn't make it.
47:33 So we are expecting that today, Daniel Bouguere Nambu, the star witness, will appear before the committee.
47:39 Well, we'll await the showing up of the star witness, Samuel Mbura, on our political desk,
47:47 and he brought us those details.
47:49 We'll take a bit of a breather.
47:51 When we return, we'll be crossing over to Kumasi in the Ashanti region, and likely Wa in the Upper West region as well,
47:57 where we'll be looking at the citizens' microphone.
48:01 We'll be contemplating the limited registration exercise of the Electoral Commission,
48:05 which started yesterday, and what the process has been like so far.
48:09 All that, after the break.
48:12 [Music]
48:15 [Music]