Hoosier Roundtable — Previewing Indiana vs Indiana State, Talking 2024 IU Men's Basketball Recruiting
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00:00 Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Hoosier Roundtable podcast. My name is Daniel Olinger,
00:09 and I'm joined by my co-host, Jack Ankeny. Jack, how are you doing?
00:13 I'm good, Daniel. How about you?
00:16 You know, well, doing better now that we decided to just go back to the Hoosier Roundtable
00:20 podcast and to just call it Hoosiers Now podcast the first time. Like we told you guys, there's
00:25 a bit of a trial run last week. And like Indiana's trial run of the triple option, we essentially
00:29 gained 2.2 yards per carry in terms of audio and video production quality.
00:34 I think we're looking much more professional this week.
00:37 Well, I don't know if our... Maybe, do you think our viewers weren't prepared for it?
00:42 Like same way Jim Knowles and Ohio State's defense weren't prepared for Indiana to run
00:46 the triple option?
00:47 Yeah, probably.
00:48 Yeah, for those who are unaware of, I've written about it for our website, an excellent website
00:54 called HoosiersNow.com that you should all check out. Turns out Ohio State really did
01:00 not practice against the triple option at all. And that really did not matter because
01:04 they, as you all saw on Saturday, they stopped it pretty easily. But fortunately, this Friday,
01:09 Indiana gets to play a team that is a lot worse than Ohio State in Indiana State FCS
01:14 competition. And not just an FCS opponent, a bad FCS opponent. Lost 27-0 to Eastern Illinois
01:21 in their game last week. And probably the most notable thing people are going to take
01:25 away from this is that Kurt Mallory, son of all-time winningest football coach in Indiana
01:30 history, Bill Mallory, is the Indiana State head coach. So, Jack, I know I'm not going
01:36 to press you on detailed scouting reports of Indiana State, but what are you looking
01:40 for from the Hoosiers going into this game?
01:42 Yeah, I kind of see this as an opportunity for Brendan Soares being Taven Jackson to
01:47 just build some confidence. You know, last week, you can't ask for a much more difficult
01:52 week one opponent than Ohio State. Some of the defensive linemen that they have and just
01:58 kind of the high profile matchup, you know, that's a really tough spot for a pair of red
02:06 shirt freshman quarterbacks that hadn't really played any college football. So, I think this
02:11 is a good chance for them to throw the ball a little bit more. You know, Walt Bell talked
02:16 about how his goal was kind of to play conservatively and try to keep Indiana in the game so they
02:22 weren't making any catastrophic errors that would kind of blow the game open. But then
02:27 in the second half, he never really put his foot on the gas. So, I think this will be
02:32 a good opportunity. Let Taven and let Brendan throw the ball around. Kind of use their feet.
02:40 I think this is a good chance to kind of see like, hey, this is what success looks like
02:46 for a pair of young quarterbacks. Because by no means like should people be giving up
02:52 on guys who've played one game, but obviously last week was not a great debut for either
02:58 of them. But I think this Friday could be a chance for them to kind of feel, you know,
03:04 what it's like to move the ball down the field, complete some passes, build some chemistry,
03:10 and just build some confidence overall.
03:12 If you don't think that people should be coming to snap judgments of quarterbacks after week
03:15 one, then you have not followed Ohio State football coverage about Kyle McCord after
03:20 last week's game. But you said it good there, like they basically just, it sounds really
03:26 mean and I think if this was the case, every Indiana football fan is the right to be furious
03:31 about it. It did kind of feel like they were just playing to lose by as little as possible.
03:37 There was no scenario where that offense was going to work well enough, where they were
03:41 going to win. And maybe it's maybe, maybe they obviously know a lot more about Brendan
03:45 and Taven than we do. Maybe they're like, listen, if we let them air it out, like not
03:49 only are we definitely still not going to win, then we completely destroy their confidence
03:53 and stuff like that. Like the only defense is like maybe they're like that low on Brendan
03:58 and Taven at the moment and really just need them to keep working together. And I get the
04:02 whole thing, like don't let Ohio State beat you twice by only losing 23 to three. The
04:05 team's confidence is a shot yet. Like even guys, like I think Jalen Lucas told me after
04:10 the game, he said, Ohio State wasn't all that, which I mean, which I mean, it's, it's Jalen.
04:14 He's going to say quotes like that, but yeah, it was just, they, they better not come out
04:20 and like, you can still run the triple option and stuff like that. You can still do all
04:23 your, the running looks you want to go to against any other state, but you better give
04:27 Taven and Brendan, not like, not just the five, like meaningless stats, Brendan got
04:30 at the end of the game, but give both of those guys, like a lot of drop back passing looks,
04:36 especially if you want to try and just like find a way, it would be so great for them
04:39 if they could just go up 14, nothing right away in the first quarter. And then I like,
04:44 there's a good chance Indiana state doesn't score on them. If their defense plays like
04:46 they do, if, if Indiana state can't score in Eastern Illinois and Ohio state can only
04:50 score 23 on Indiana, there's like some transitive property there, right? So Indiana state should
04:54 not be scoring on them. So if they can just get like an early lead, you got to let like
05:01 Taven and Brendan try and do whatever they can just to like, before Louisville, you have
05:06 to have like a pretty definitive answer. Probably. I feel like who's the better quarterback and
05:11 more importantly, how you want to play against Louisville.
05:14 Yeah, I do think they want to have a decision made after. It might not be an easy decision
05:21 because it seems like they're still kind of far away just based on the way Bell and Alan
05:26 have talked about just there really being no separation in fall camp and especially
05:31 week one. I think we're still going to see them run a fair amount of that triple option
05:36 just because I think, I think eventually Bell likes will want to do that with Dexter and
05:43 they think that that's a way to maximize Jalen Lucas, which was kind of another criticism
05:49 I had of week one of, I just thought they ran the ball up the middle with Jalen Lucas
05:54 too much. I think he's a guy where he's not exactly a power back. He's not going to run,
06:01 you know, between, between the guards and centers and get yards that way. Like you got
06:07 to get them in space and stuff. And I think last year kind of with Dexter, we saw how
06:12 that can be maximized with Jalen. So I still think we'll see a fair amount of that triple
06:16 option, but like you said, it would be really nice to see, you know, double digit pass attempts
06:22 for both quarterbacks if possible. Especially if you can get up early and you can kind of
06:30 be put the idea that losing the game is not at risk because like last week, you know,
06:35 I think Bell didn't want them to, you know, throw an early pick six, lose all their confidence
06:40 and then the game's over by halftime. So I think it will be a good chance, you know,
06:45 like you mentioned, Indiana state lost 27, nothing to Eastern Illinois. So I think another
06:50 thing to look, look for is just how the offensive line plays. Cause I think it was improved
06:56 last week and against an FCS opponent, usually that's kind of the biggest difference as we've
07:02 seen like the last couple of years when Indiana played Idaho, like they should be able to
07:06 control the line of scrimmage on both sides.
07:08 Yeah. The offensive line, like given how low the bar was from the 2022 season, they looked
07:15 a lot better against Ohio state. I'm sure a lot of Ohio state fans have opinions about
07:19 how their front seven playing and what they could have even done more to create havoc,
07:22 but like perfectly acceptable performance along the lines of the running backs, they
07:27 can they get Josh Henderson the ball? I feel like we hardly saw him the entire game after
07:31 hearing all off season that how much of it, I'm sure he's still wilder than he's in, but
07:35 like Henderson's a leader of this room, like most reliable guy on the team. Like everyone
07:39 trusts him to carry the ball. Like, and I understand the thing where it's, you have
07:43 the three running backs. You only want to get them involved. All that really matters
07:46 is that you have a productive run game. Not that you have some 100 yard rusher each day,
07:51 but it does feel like, so why is the Russian game plan to like Henderson and Turner hardly
07:57 ever get the ball. And when Jaylin Lucas does get it, we're asking him to like, trying,
08:03 trying to like take on contact, like seems a little like counterintuitive and I get trying
08:08 to run a lot of stuff out of the gun, but just any way you can line up with the straight
08:11 up hand up, like, especially against probably a smaller team like Indiana state, there's
08:15 a good chance Henderson can just as a bigger rack and just like kind of knock some of those
08:19 dudes down. So we definitely wanted to, I definitely think they should try and get in
08:23 here, but yeah, it's, it's oversimplified to say, but just like, I'm expecting the defense
08:28 to just sit on Indiana state the whole game and the offense better look a lot improved
08:33 from what it did last week.
08:34 Yeah. I think with Henderson, that was kind of a result of, I thought Christian Turner
08:39 played pretty well and when you have three running backs, I think there's going to be
08:43 some games where we're like, Hey, why didn't they get Christian Turner involved? Why didn't
08:47 they get Henderson involved kind of as the nature of having a three headed monster backfield.
08:53 But I do agree with you. Like Henderson is clearly a talented back. I think he'll have
08:58 a big week this week against Indiana state. And it was promising to see some growth from
09:02 the offensive line. You know, we talked to Zach Carpenter and Khalil Benson at Monday's
09:08 availability and I think both of them said that they felt that it was like the best game
09:12 that they, in terms of communication on the offensive line, just all feeling like they
09:16 were on the same page. And that's kind of a result of just familiarity, having guys
09:21 like Carpenter and Kadek and Bedford back. You know, last year they shuffled around the
09:27 offensive line a lot, which really hurt with the continuity and having to play, you know,
09:33 some inexperienced guys. So I am pretty optimistic about how the offensive line is shaping up.
09:39 I think Bostad has made a strong impact, you know, just one week into his, you know, season,
09:48 but obviously he's been there in the offseason. But obviously it seems like he's made a strong
09:51 impression on this group.
09:53 Funnily enough, when you mentioned Christian Turner, this is some other websites I've produced.
09:58 There's Ohio State fans are focusing a lot on the Christian Turner 11 yard run because
10:03 they're having a whole debate about their starting safety. Josh Proctor, who, as I said,
10:08 I'm one of Indiana's only good players, he blew his assignment on that. And that's why
10:11 Turner sprung for you. So, you know, if it gives Indiana fans any solace, Ohio State
10:16 fans are losing their minds over that starting game. It was very frustrating to them. Like,
10:22 I think so. I saw someone tweet it, like the promise of Indiana football is that neither
10:25 team will enjoy the game. So I'll give them that. I think that was true. One thing I wanted
10:31 to touch on, like, because again, we're not going to give you guys like a ton of detailed
10:35 preview on Indiana State. If any of you can find the full Indiana State game film out
10:39 there, you are either an NFL scout or you're very cool. But we do not have that. They played
10:46 two quarterbacks last week, Gavin Screws and Evan Oles. I hope I'm saying that last name
10:50 right. Neither look good. Zero touchdowns thrown. I believe Evan Oles in particular
10:56 through two passes, both of which were intercepted. A motorcycle just sped by my apartment. So
11:03 if you heard that in the background. But yeah, the one thing I want to touch on Indiana State
11:09 is that obviously there's a little bit of history there in state teams. There's going
11:12 to be way more basketball history. You know, the Larry Bird story has been told a million
11:16 times over. But yeah, so it's an article I've written, wrote back in August and then I've
11:23 republished this week for everyone to check out on HoosiersNow.com. If you like Google
11:29 Indiana versus Indiana State history, three different results kind of pop up. For a while
11:34 on the Indiana team website, it was saying just like 5-0. I think they actually did say
11:38 6-0 this time. Other sites like Indiana State has it at 6-1. The site Winsopedia I go to
11:46 a lot for head to head all time results have like some different trackings there. But mainly
11:51 what I could find is that basically there was a random, I should have the article pulled
11:55 up right now, but there was like a random game in the 60s that Indiana State claims
12:00 it won, but it was clearly like a May scrimmage. Other than that, Indiana has won every game
12:05 pretty easily. It last won in 2014. This would be the first time Curt Mallory has played
12:09 against his dad's team that he coached for so long. So it should be like, there's some
12:17 interesting backstory there. It's like as all things college football, it's a weird
12:21 history. Like the coolest thing about college football is that nothing is really clear about
12:25 what was going on. It's not super well documented. Everyone has their own take on it. So should
12:30 be a fun game. Do you want to give a brief score prediction there, Jack?
12:35 Yeah, I hadn't really thought of this, but I think it'll be something around the lines
12:42 of maybe 38-3. I'll say Indiana State gets a field goal. I don't think it's going to
12:51 be very close. I think Indiana is going to be able to command both lines of scrimmage.
12:57 I was really impressed kind of with every level defensively for Indiana last week against
13:02 Ohio State, especially up front. I think Aaron Casey and Jacob Mangum-Farrar are going to
13:08 be a really solid duo at linebacker. Secondary, just with all the new faces, there are only
13:15 a few returners. I thought it was really impressive that McInerney was able to get that group
13:19 communicating well and playing well together.
13:22 Quick note on the secondary, we did specifically ask about Jameer Johnson. They're not going
13:27 to tell us.
13:28 Yeah, I asked Tom Allen how he was doing. I guess I maybe should have realized this,
13:36 but now since they have the availability reports that they released two hours before the game,
13:40 it sounds like for Indiana, at least, that's going to kind of eliminate any midweek injury
13:47 discussion. So we're kind of just going to have to wait on that.
13:51 Another one to keep an eye on maybe is Max Longman. He didn't play week one. We don't
13:56 really know what he's dealing with, but Bo Stad said in fall camp that he was kind of
14:01 right on the edge of a starting role. And they kind of flip-flopped. Like Bedford moved
14:07 to guard, and Kodik obviously has played guard for a long time. So maybe that'll be tough
14:14 to crack the line if they want those two guys at guard. Because I think Longman is more
14:18 of a guard than a tackle. But yeah, those are kind of two injuries to keep an eye on.
14:23 And then obviously Dexter Williams later on in the season. But yeah, for Indiana State,
14:28 those are kind of two.
14:29 Yeah, I would say for Jameer, we both guessed he probably won't play just because that really
14:33 did look like a concussion that he took against Ohio State. It's a short week game against
14:38 Indiana State who they should be able to beat pretty easily anyways. If I had to guess,
14:43 I would say Jameer probably doesn't play in the game. But obviously nothing can be confirmed.
14:48 I'm just going to say 24 to nothing over Indiana State. I don't think the defense is going
14:53 to have any problems there. But this offense is concerning. So I mean, 2.2 yards per play
15:00 is pretty rough. Like it doesn't get a whole lot worse than that. So yeah, but I think
15:05 that's pretty much all the football talk we have here. Oh, I did have one question for
15:10 you, though. How sure of a field goal do you think it has to be for them to bring out Nico
15:14 Radice? Because we saw the 43 yarder and they went with Chris Freeman, which I wouldn't
15:18 categorize as super long range. And obviously there was the whole Indiana mystery kicker
15:24 debate that I feel partially responsible for. But yeah, what kind of do you think like they'll
15:30 give if it's a 30 yarder to let Nico kick?
15:33 Yeah, I expect him to get a shot this week. I mean, I think the last two years when Indiana
15:39 played Idaho, I think Freeman got some reps with some extra points and some field goals.
15:45 And it sounded like neither guy really, really won the job convincingly, just the way that
15:52 that Alan was kind of saying, you know, some of it will be distance driven. Like you said,
15:59 43 yards is not too long. Like it wouldn't surprise me if they gave Nico a shot at something
16:03 like that, especially if the game is kind of decided or if Indiana has a has a decently,
16:10 you know, a couple touchdown, two, three score lead. I wouldn't I kind of expect to see both
16:16 of them just because of the nature of the competition. And I know they were really excited
16:21 about Nico and kind of thought that he had a good chance of starting as a freshman. So
16:26 I don't think that competition is settled. I think this week will be will kind of be
16:33 a maybe not a deciding factor, but at least weigh into how they want that to go.
16:40 Well, we'll see. And obviously, me and Jack will be back for you guys to talk about Indiana
16:45 State Indiana after that game finishes. Hopefully, it'll just be about what positive things we
16:50 saw. If that game is any way close. We'll have the alarm sirens blaring and like, give
16:55 a good warning podcast for you guys. So just stay tuned for that. But now we're going to
16:59 transition to a little bit of basketball talk. Season's still a little bit away, but getting
17:04 closer every day and that right. And this past week, we're going to get to the 2024
17:09 recruits that we know you want to hear about. We're going to touch briefly on the 2025 recruits
17:14 who just visited Bloomington this past week in Jalen Harrelson, Malachi Moreno and Darius
17:19 Adams. So I don't know if you had anything you wanted to add here. Just let me do my
17:24 riff on a bunch of the stats.
17:26 Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, Jalen Harrelson is a guy that they've been in on for already,
17:33 I think, close to two full years. And he's just going into his junior year of or he's
17:39 just in his junior year of high school now. Went to Fishers outside of Indy. He's transferring
17:46 to Lalamere, obviously the big prep school.
17:49 And we'll be playing with Darius Adams, the other guys there.
17:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, Lalamere always produces, you know, Jaden Ivey, a handful
17:58 of NBA guys. So he's someone that that Indiana kind of got in on really early. And I think
18:06 this is kind of this and kind of the 24 class are the first that you're really able to see
18:13 because like when Woodson got here, it's tough to get in on guys that are seniors in high
18:18 school when other programs have been involved for two, three years. So I think it is interesting
18:24 to see guys like Harrelson and other ones where you can see, hey, this is a guy that
18:29 Woodson has been in contact with since he was a freshman in high school. Can he build
18:33 that relationship? Can he beat out some top programs? Because like you're going to mention,
18:39 like Duke and a ton of high profile programs are going after him because he's widely considered
18:45 a top 10 player in 2025. So that's kind of the one that I think was on my radar the most
18:52 just because he's the in-state guy. They've been involved with him for so long. And obviously
18:56 it'd be a big pickup. I think it is interesting. You know, a lot of guys will kind of see how
19:04 the impact of what Indiana did with Jalen Hedrofino in his one year, just kind of being
19:11 able to say like, hey, Indiana is a place where you can come, be a guard, go to the
19:17 NBA after one year. I think it'll be interesting to see how that impact kind of plays a role
19:21 because you do hear a lot of recruits kind of mention him when talking about Indiana.
19:27 Yeah. So basically I'm just going to run down here some numbers for you guys, some stats
19:33 from like AAU and like high school play that I have in them as well as some measurements.
19:37 I'm also going to mention, you know, like what other schools are on the lookout for
19:41 them. And for any of you wanting to know the source I have to get the measurements and
19:45 stats on these guys that are a little bit more exclusive, I know I will not be revealing
19:50 that. So just going to, if you, so if you want to like find out how tall these guys
19:54 are, how long their arms are, I recommend you listen to this show all the time. But
19:59 so Jalen Harrelson, as you say, like five star by far of the three guys who were here
20:04 this last week in the highest profile recruit, he averaged 14.6 points per game at 2022 Nike
20:11 EYBL U16 and 33 games for EYBL on the EYBL circuit for Indy Heat from 2022 to 23. He
20:20 shot 18 for 60 from three on there. So only 30%. I can get into discussion of high school
20:25 three point percentages at a later time and what those actually mean, but took a ton of
20:29 free throws 75% of those measurements had him at 6'6" with shoes 6'5" without, but a
20:36 ridiculous 6'10" wingspan. So yeah, like a pretty, like probably a really important perimeter
20:42 player, just really good tools there. 206 pounds at Nike Elite 100 and other schools
20:48 pursuing him would be as Jack said, Duke and then Florida State, Gonzaga, Arizona State,
20:53 Auburn. And also as Jack said, he goes to La Lumiere. As for the other players there,
20:58 we have Malachi Moreno, who is a big, big man from Kentucky. I believe 2023 measurements
21:05 had him at 6'11" without shoes. Now he is pretty thin about around 213 pounds, you know,
21:13 just barely heavier than Jalen Harrelson, but got a little over a 7'1" wingspan standing
21:18 reaches well over nine feet, like just a very large dude. It's like, if we're trying to
21:23 just go, I usually hate like comparisons for any players, stuff like that. But if you're
21:27 thinking like, oh, what are they going to do when Kalele Ware either leaves Indiana
21:31 through, I think either the Kalele Ware next year goes well, and he's in the NBA, or it
21:36 goes poorly. Maybe he's not Indiana again, but we'll see. But if you're thinking, oh,
21:40 Kalele Ware won't be here at Indiana in two years, well, maybe Moreno is the guy they're
21:45 targeting as someone who kind of replaced him in that sense. Other schools pursuing
21:50 Moreno would be Florida, Alabama, Arkansas, and Creighton. Does not, Indian again, he
21:55 obviously visited here, so Indiana's in on him, but doesn't seem like Jalen Harrelson
21:59 has had a, as Jack's mentioned, like a strong Indiana connection. He's definitely like,
22:04 as any viewer online probably seen, like Harrelson, Indiana's definitely a connection. Moreno's
22:09 probably just like they're in on now, it's a contest, but you know, definitely no surefire
22:13 thing that they get him. And then Darius Adams, which is Jalen Harrelson's four star teammate
22:18 at La Lumiere, 6'3" and a half, about shoes, one very small guard at the point of this
22:24 moment, 166 pounds, 6'6" wingspan in 14 games for Pro Scholars, 16U. He averaged around
22:30 15.5 points per game, shot just under 33% from three, 75% from the free throw line.
22:36 A few other schools pursuing him again include Florida State, and then we have Providence,
22:40 Rutgers, and Fordham. And yeah, so that don't have, again, as much as I love the scout,
22:46 haven't really gotten a chance to watch any of these three. Definitely will have some
22:49 stuff for you guys on Harrelson in the coming days. Moreno, Adams, we'll see. But yeah,
22:54 I think, Jack, you think it's time to talk about some 2024 recruits?
22:57 - Yeah, big weekend. The Montverde trio, Liam McNeely, Derek Queen, and Curtis Gibbons coming
23:07 to campus.
23:08 - Sadly not Cooper Flagg, the actual Terminator, which...
23:10 - Yeah, yeah, it doesn't seem...
23:13 - If any of you are living under a rock and have not heard of Cooper Flagg, just look
23:17 up his highlights. It's not a stretch to say he's one of the most impressive high school
23:21 basketball recruits ever. He just clapped up, he's basically gonna be number one in
23:26 the 2024 class. And so the 2025 NBA draft football, it like ridiculous basketball player.
23:33 And it also tells you just the fact that Curtis Gibbons is a legit good four-star and he's
23:38 like the seventh best player on his team at high school.
23:41 - Yeah, but this is a huge weekend for Indiana. They don't have any 2024 recruits, obviously,
23:47 and it's not... Obviously, it's not too late to get worried about that because they're
23:55 still in on like seven or eight guys, I think, that haven't committed yet. But this is a
24:00 huge weekend because I think not only to get the 2024 class rolling is it important, but
24:07 you know, Woodson has clearly dedicated a lot of time to try to get this Montverde
24:12 pipeline going. He started with Hedgefino and Renu. He's in on these three guys. Also,
24:18 Asa Newell has visited. I don't think he has a visit scheduled for this fall, but maybe
24:23 they're working on that.
24:24 - Asa's class is... Is he class of '25 or am I getting that wrong?
24:27 - Oh, he's '24 also.
24:28 - Okay, I was mixing it. Again, it's so hard to keep track at Montverde because when you
24:32 hardly see Asa and Curtis play, you think maybe they're younger, but it's no, they're
24:36 just... There's like four or five stars in front of them.
24:39 - Yeah, but yeah, huge weekend. I think if Woodson wants to kind of continue the run
24:44 of getting some Montverde guys, this is a huge time to do it. I kind of feel like McNeely
24:49 maybe is the most likely out of the three. You know, there's been some talk that Indiana
24:56 has kind of emerged as a front runner, but they obviously have some tough competition,
25:01 Texas, Kansas, some other schools.
25:04 - It's mainly Texas and Kansas.
25:06 - Yeah, I think...
25:07 - Because that's where Liam's from and they're doing pretty well right now. And Kansas, because
25:12 Bill Self is like the one meme where the guy's just... The wrestler's just enjoying his time
25:16 and then the undertaker rises up behind him. Like, you have to be always afraid if you
25:21 hear Kansas and Bill Self are on a recruiting trail coming after your team's prospect.
25:26 - Right. But I think just from a roster makeup perspective, you know, Indiana fans for...
25:34 At least it feels like since Tom Green left, there's been kind of a lack of three-point
25:40 shooting, at least from having like multiple guys that can do it. You know, there's been
25:46 guys like in the last few years, like Miller Cop, you know, Tamar Bates is a solid shooter,
25:51 Parker Stewart, some other guys. But on a wide perspective, like Indiana used to be
25:55 known for having just guys all over the court that could shoot. And that really wasn't the
26:00 case under Archie. I think Woodson is trying to get back to that and it'd be a great start
26:06 to get McNeely because he's one of the best three-point shooters out of anyone in high
26:11 school. And kind of, you know, I think another thing that's revealing about Woodson's recruiting
26:17 perspective is just how he's trying to get some guys that can play multiple spots. I
26:21 think McNeely kind of fits that. And then Queen, you know, they don't... You know, obviously
26:28 the front court is a little bit, could be in flux next year. If Ware has a good season
26:34 and leaves for the NBA, I think we're new. Some people think he has NBA potential. So
26:40 there could be a void there in the front court and getting a guy like Queen would be big
26:45 after missing out on Flory Badunga.
26:48 Yeah. So you mentioned Liam there, like, and obviously like these comparisons are inevitable.
26:54 Like people bring up Miller Cop when like, cause they're both tall white shooters. It's
26:58 like we get the, I think, yeah, Miller's also from Houston if I remember correctly. So both
27:02 from Texas, funnily enough, but let me just put, as somebody who watched Miller at both
27:06 Northwestern and Indiana, like Liam's a lot better than that. Like a much better athlete,
27:13 very flex, like flex more, much more flexible in his knees and like, and his hips can move
27:18 around pretty well, has a decent handle. Defensively his wingspan's not very long and he doesn't
27:22 like, he's not a very quick leaper. I don't even think he's terrible vertically, just
27:26 doesn't get off the ground very fast, not super explosive, that kind of twitch, but
27:30 he is a fine defender enough and like pretty active, like, and very physical, like, and
27:35 how he communicates too is pretty well. And then, yeah, as you said, the main selling
27:39 point, just ridiculously good shooter. He, in 62 track games at EYBL, Montverde and FIBA
27:46 over the last two years, he shot 39.5% from three and in high school, that's already good.
27:53 In high school, like when you see guys shooting low thirties on high volume, they're probably
27:56 a really good three point shooter. Cause high school basketball, like so many times best
28:00 players have to take really bad shots just because their teammates can't even get shots
28:03 off. Like it's just something you kind of have to do. And also the spacing is so much
28:07 worse. Like it's a little easier to shoot really well. Like imagine how well Liam McNeely
28:12 shoots from three, if he's playing alongside Trace last year and Xavier Johnson, right?
28:16 For his point guard, like they're just setting them up for so much more, better look. So
28:20 unbelievable shooter, nothing to say there besides like really good at it. He's stands
28:24 around six, six and 209 pounds out of six, seven wingspan. As we said, Texas and Kansas
28:30 are the main competitors here. I've talked, I've talked to Liam, I did that interview
28:35 with him last month, wrote scouting reports on that. You could check out at hugersnow.com.
28:39 Like yeah, and definitely of the three seems like the most likely that I think Indiana
28:44 is the favorite right now. But as I said, I mean, it seemed like what Auburn had Florida
28:49 Bodunga for a while. It seemed like Duke had Florida Bodunga, then Auburn had him, then
28:53 Kansas had him. So, you know, whenever you're one of these five stars with a lot of big
28:57 names after you, a lot of stuff can still happen. So no guarantee there. Another guy
29:03 I've written about Derek Queen, who again, don't love comparisons, but I don't, if it
29:08 helps other people understand, like, I don't think it's crazy to say that Derek Queen,
29:13 at least in terms of the role he could fill at Indiana, if he went there, would be kind
29:16 of like right-handed Trace Jackson Davis. He's a much, he's a pretty much an undersized
29:21 center who can't really shoot at the moment, ridiculously good passer. Like, again, I know
29:28 that Mike was almost to like, go back to like a more pro style offense and like kind of
29:33 spread for not play so much, just post up your big man and let him kind of distribute
29:36 from there. But you could really run that with Derek Queen. Cause he's a handle inside
29:40 of some good post moves, a lot of interesting handle, like can kind of finish, like he has
29:45 some really good touch on some of this finishes, but just unbelievable passer and super fun
29:50 watching him and Liam play together the way they, they have like a great two man DHO chemistry.
29:55 So it's really fun. But yeah, in terms of like Derek only measured about six, eight
30:00 without shoes. So again, really not that big of a guy has a long wingspan, seven feet,
30:05 roughly 250 pounds. He's had a lot of double doubles in both AAU and in high school basketball,
30:11 like can be an absolute monster on rebounds. Even is that the, like, not a, not a great
30:16 shooter about, I think the games I have, the 24 games I have tracked for him had 56% free
30:22 throw shooting and something I explained in the article he has, his form looks really
30:26 rough. He kind of brings the ball across his face. And I like my belief at the moment,
30:31 he has this whole thing called cross eye dominance, where basically his right hand is a strong
30:36 shooting hand, but his left eye is his dominant eye. So you kind of end up bringing the ball
30:42 over there so you can see better. It's a whole weird thing. If anyone's interested in very,
30:46 very minute details of basketball, but the main thing you need to know is Derek Queen
30:50 really is not a good shooter at the moment. He has good touch on jump hooks and stuff
30:53 like that. So maybe if someone fixes his form, there's something there, but would definitely
30:59 if Derek ever came to Indiana, I would not expect him to develop into a pick and prop
31:03 there again, like right-handed trace Jackson Davis is not the worst comment in the world,
31:07 but does seem very real that Maryland might be the favorite here for Derek Queen. If Indiana
31:12 has a second, and that's what two, four, seven sports predicting a Jack. I don't know if
31:16 you, I'm not going to say like, Oh, you've been following Derek 24 seven, but what's
31:21 your feel on like if Derek Queen ends up playing for Maryland or Indiana.
31:24 Right. I mean, kind of the way I look at it is I'm curious how much of an impact it would
31:31 have if we, if you were to commit to Indiana, say sometime in September, you know, after
31:40 this visit and if he can make the recruiting pitch to get Queen and, and how much they
31:46 want to play with each other. Obviously we've seen it with like coach, you know, and renew
31:51 that there's something to, you know, let's team up in college after we played so well
31:56 together in high school.
31:57 And it's also for these Mount Verde guys, not only playing at Mount Verde, probably
32:01 played against him with each other, a lot of circuits growing up. Like these guys have
32:04 been five stars their whole life.
32:06 Right. And not just, not just from a perspective of, Hey, we're both really good players. We
32:10 could be good in college, but Hey, we've already, we already have this chemistry established
32:14 that could, that could help, you know, kind of hit the ground running in college. So I
32:20 think there is something to that. I think that could give Indiana, I mean, I'm not saying
32:27 that they're more likely to get Queen than Maryland, but I'm saying if, if they were
32:32 are able to get McNeely, it could give them a little bit of an edge or, or a little bit
32:39 of a factor of like, Hey, let's team up in, in college because you know, it's not like
32:45 Maryland is getting any, is getting any of these other Mount Verde guys.
32:49 So I do think they have, I don't know if he's coming this year next. I might have that wrong.
32:55 They got the one guy to Sean Harris Smith from another big school, but he might actually
32:58 be a freshman this year. I keep, he'll be a freshman. That's what I thought.
33:02 Yeah. I recruited him too and missed and missed out on him. So they've yeah. Woodson and Willard
33:07 have kind of been battling the last, the last few recruiting classes. So I don't know, that's
33:13 kind of what I would, what I would keep an eye on is if Indiana can get McNeely and then
33:19 kind of get the ball rolling with, with, with some other guys.
33:25 I think Queen to your point, Woodson kind of showed that a passing big man like Queen,
33:34 you know, he did it with Trace Jackson Davis in a distributive role. I think that might
33:39 be a good model to say, Hey, you know, we, you know, we've succeeded with a guy like
33:45 Trace who's able to pass as a big man and not necessarily be a shooting threat. Cause
33:51 I, you know, I don't think Woodson wants to build around a big guy moving forward. Cause
33:57 he never really did that in the NBA and he's talked about that. But I think it, I think
34:02 it does help to have a guy with a somewhat similar skillset that you can kind of point
34:08 to and say, this is how we want to, this is what we think you can be maybe.
34:15 So I think, I think it's a huge weekend obviously for, for Indiana. I think they got to get
34:20 a, get a recruit committed so that they can kind of start building the class. Cause it
34:26 does feel like it's going to be kind of a domino effect with some of these top 50 guys,
34:30 you know, Indiana's after a lot of them. And kind of once a few of them recruit, I think
34:35 it'll, it'll kind of spiral from there. So yeah, obviously some, some big talent in Bloomington
34:43 this weekend.
34:44 And like, I do think it's a legit thing. Queen, if like, we're trying to think of the devil's
34:49 advocate army here, Queen could say like, well, I've already shown what I can do with
34:52 Liam and playing with like multiple five-star recruit. Like maybe if I go to Maryland, there's
34:56 a chance I'm the guy and I get to show more of the kind of things I'm going to do. I believe
35:00 also Queen, Queen is from Maryland originally, like around that area. So yeah, so that's,
35:06 that's also like, that is the thing where like, obviously they both play in Florida
35:10 now at Montford, but Queen is from Maryland and McNeely is from Texas. So when you have
35:15 the big state schools from their own town, like kind of recruiting them, that's obviously
35:19 going to be a big challenge to try and take those guys from those schools. But no, I mean,
35:23 if they could get McNeely and Queen, like, it just makes so much sense because I've already
35:28 seen it work. I see other options. They'll just run Chicago actions that teams in the
35:33 NBA do all the time, which is just set a pin down for McNeely. Queen has the ball at the
35:37 end of the day, they run Adidja, like you can literally find millions of examples of
35:41 it in the way they already play together that Montford has them run that system. It just,
35:46 it just, it's so nice if you can get guys like that who so clearly already work together
35:50 at a certain level, it should translate to the next level too. I can't think of why it
35:54 would not, unless something I'm really wrong about who those two players are or what they
35:58 can do. But yeah, I think that's pretty much all we have for McNeely and Queen at the moment.
36:05 As far as Curtis Gibbons goes again, he's not trying to say like Curtis Gibbons doesn't
36:11 matter. Obviously he's like four star guard. He's a good player. Just it is like, we don't
36:15 have as much on him because it doesn't play as much at Montford really just kind of, especially
36:19 this last year from what I saw, got in occasionally got to run a few ball screens, mainly just
36:23 stood in the corner, like spotted up from three, a decent shooter at about had him on
36:27 about 36% or actually more 35.6% on three point attempts and on good volume in his track
36:34 games, which is like, I think it was 63 track games. So seems like a pretty quality shooter
36:39 that you can trust that guard. I'm pretty small dude. I think he's, there's no like
36:44 official measurements I have from like the rumor thing I'm seeing here is six to 170
36:48 pounds, which I'm like, I'm 511 170. So that's a little concerning. Not a very big guy. Like,
36:57 so he's just probably a, he's a small guard at the moment who seems like he can play,
37:03 like I'm sure could get minutes at Indiana. But again, like, like we're saying, like Curtis
37:08 Gibbons is probably a guy could play at Indiana. McNeely and Queen would run Indiana's team
37:13 if they came here, like it would be their team. And last thing here, just other schools
37:18 listening contention for Curtis Gibbons at the moment are Georgia Tech, UConn, LSU and
37:22 Memphis. You have anything to add on Curtis Gibbons, Jack?
37:25 Yeah, I guess it would seem just for the fact that Indiana only offered him in April, they
37:31 haven't been in on him as long. So maybe there's something there that it's less likely, but
37:38 you know, kind of like I said, with, with McNeely and Queen, if you can get one of them
37:43 kind of as a, as a recruiter for the recruits.
37:47 And this all leads to Cooper Flagg, Indiana men's basketball player.
37:50 Yeah, I don't know if I'd go that far, but.
37:53 Live a little bit.
37:55 But, you know, I think when you look at Indiana's guard depth going forward, they're going to
38:02 lose Xavier Johnson after this year. Trey Galloway has a fifth year if he wants it.
38:08 So he could be back, but Indiana's already kind of thin at guard with, with kind of the
38:14 main bench options being Gabe Cupps and Ja'Kai Newton, who was out indefinitely with that
38:19 knee injury. It's kind of unsure if he's going to play this year. CJ Gunn too. So Indiana
38:26 definitely needs to get a couple of guards in this 2024 class, just because you're losing
38:31 Johnson and there's kind of some unknown with some other guys.
38:34 So you know, they definitely kind of need to add some guards. I don't know how likely
38:41 it is that they get givens just because they haven't been in on him as, as a long time,
38:45 as long as some other guys. But, you know, I think any guy that you can get from Mount
38:50 Verde, just they have such a good track record of producing good college and obviously NBA
38:56 players. You know, Indiana should obviously be going after him. And I think it helps to
39:01 have him on campus the same weekend as, as a McNeely and Queen.
39:05 Yeah, as someone who roots for the Philadelphia Eagles and has seen the strategy of just draft
39:11 the national championships teams, like entire roster, like I can't say it. And obviously
39:16 a month I, for those who, before anyone yells at me, yes, I know Mount Verde lost to Sunrise
39:20 Christian in the first round of the Geico Nationals this year, they got upset, but as
39:24 a Mount Verde team that's usually wins the national championship at the high school level,
39:28 like obviously like the more Mount Verde players you get, the better there's like no, like,
39:33 oh, are you going to, but no, it's like, that's a, it's a, it's a blue blood high school.
39:38 If you can get all the players from there, you go get all the players from there. So,
39:43 and it is risky from a perspective of you're going up against schools like this and do
39:48 it's that scene in the, it's the scene in the wire. If you come at the King, you best
39:52 not miss.
39:53 Right, right. So, you know, I think it, you know, Woodson has talked about how he thinks
40:02 Indiana should have a seat at the table with, with some of these big programs and clearly
40:07 he's put them in a position to get official visits with these guys. He's landed a couple
40:12 big ones with Embaco, Hitch Cofino in some recent years, Glowware in the portal. But
40:19 at some point you gotta, you gotta start getting some commitments in 2024. Obviously it's not
40:23 time to panic yet, but the clock is ticking a little bit.
40:27 We're kind of, flash forward to next week and it's Liam McNeely is committed in Texas,
40:31 Derek Queen is committed to Maryland and we just are, we're just like doing five emergency
40:36 podcasts.
40:37 Right. And then, and then at that point it's like, all right, well now you got to compete
40:40 against some other top programs for the rest of the guys that you're recruiting. And so
40:44 it kind of puts it in a, in a position where if you can get these guys, it's a home run
40:50 because you're recruiting all, I think everyone that Indiana is going after in 2024 is a top
40:56 50, top 60 guy for, you know, highly ranked four star or a five star. And kind of with
41:03 that comes some risk where you have to compete against some of the best programs, but if
41:08 you get them, it's obviously a big bonus, but if you don't, it's kind of hard to recover
41:14 quickly. And so September is a huge month. I'm sure we'll talk about some of the other
41:20 visits they have coming up in some later episodes, but would be huge if they can get a commitment,
41:26 you know, in the next week or so from one of these guys.
41:29 Yeah. And I like what you said there about Woodson not being like saying, Indiana has
41:32 a seat at the table. Cause I think that's, that's the right, if you're going to be the
41:36 coach at Indiana men's basketball team, you should have that mindset. Like you can't only
41:40 conservatively recruiting lower tier recruits in the state of Indiana only is for it's for
41:45 the football team, quite honestly. It's like, that's, they're the team that has to kind
41:48 of think strategically. Okay. Who's under about again, like finding Jalen Lucas out
41:53 of Louisiana and see who's undersized or all this stuff, like finding all these like edges
41:57 on the margin. Like, so that's what you have to do when you're a program at the bottom
41:59 in that sport and even in basketball, I know it's been, I know how long it's been since
42:03 the last national title, but like, this is still considered like if you ask someone to
42:07 list off blue bloods and college basketball or most important college basketball programs,
42:11 you can't get, if not in the top five, you definitely can't get to 10 without mentioning
42:15 Indiana. So you should think like, Hey, if it's Kansas going after this recruit, we can
42:19 go after this recruit Maryland.
42:21 We're a better basketball school than Maryland. Historically, like same thing with Texas.
42:24 Like you should have that mindset. Like you're not, you do not be afraid to compete on the
42:29 recruiting trail. You should like, and Woodson again, like as an NBA coach, as a pretty famous
42:35 coach, like has kind of that cachet to go out there and get those guys. So I do, I do
42:40 appreciate that. Like just rather than conservatively go after like maybe lower tier four star recruits
42:44 that you're more confident you're going to get every time, like saying, Hey, we make
42:48 me at least top 10.
42:49 We want it to be our top 10 guy. We, we want to see if we can get Liam and Derek here and
42:53 have an awesome year. I think it's the right approach.
42:55 Yeah. And I think this is a super pivotal year for Woodson, not just on a recruiting
43:00 perspective, but a coaching perspective too, where, you know, you inherited a guy like
43:05 Trace Jackson Davis, you were able to add some guys in the portal, like Xavier Johnson
43:09 and some others. You had the one and done freshmen in Hutch Fino, you're kind of stole
43:15 Mackenzie and Baco from your big move in the off season.
43:19 You're kind of starting fresh this year in a sense where, you know, really the only established
43:23 guys you have at the college level are, are Xavier Johnson and Trey Galloway in terms
43:28 of guys who've been every game starters. So I think this year will reveal a lot about
43:33 Woodson as a coach and kind of what he wants to do. And I think the 2024 class is super
43:39 important for him to kind of get this rolling.
43:42 Cause if you can get some five stars in this class to add on to what you got with Hutch
43:46 Fino, with them Baco, you know, like you mentioned, Indiana is a top program and, and if, and
43:53 if you can get it rolling, you know, it can, it can really take off just kind of with the
43:57 momentum of what it can have with a guy like Woodson, who you mentioned has that kind of
44:01 NBA pull, but at the same time, he's, he's been around for a long time and seems like
44:08 he's kind of adjusting to the college game pretty well after a couple of years.
44:14 So I think, I think this year is huge for him, both from a coaching perspective and
44:19 a recruiting perspective for, you know, the ultimate five year or so trajectory of the
44:25 program.
44:26 Totally agree. Well, I think we've probably gone on long enough about on this podcast
44:32 talking like probably far more Indiana state football talk than either of us were ever
44:36 expecting at any point in our lives. And then obviously big recruiting week, we'll probably,
44:41 I'm like, we're not going to be full disclosure. We will not be stalking Liam and Derek around
44:45 Bloomington. So we're not saying here's everything they did on their trip. So if you're expecting
44:48 that from us, you, we will not get, you will not get that. But if we get any other updates
44:54 on basketball recruiting, men's or women's, obviously we will be first to tell you guys
44:58 here and we should be back after the Indiana, Indiana state football game on Friday night,
45:04 talking to you about how it went, hopefully how it went well, but not assuredly. And yeah,
45:08 you should guys make sure you check out everything we do on who's your snap.com. Thanks for watching
45:13 this video. If you watch it there, 99% sure this should be on Spotify and Apple podcast
45:18 this time when we get it out there. So listen to their follow along, please let us, especially
45:24 let us know how, what do you think, how do you think we're doing so far, what we can
45:27 do better, what we can improve. Again, me and Jack are really just starting this together.
45:31 So any helpful advice or comments are appreciated. Yeah. I think the say Jack, that was the shit
45:39 you never said. Yeah, no, I, I thought you were ending it there, but no. Yeah. I think
45:45 we'll, we'll try to kind of make it a weekly thing to do some football recaps. We'll add
45:51 some basketball recruiting. Obviously the season's kind of right around the corner,
45:55 so we'll get some more season preview type stuff up in the next couple of months as basketball
46:01 approaches. All right. Well this time I'll end it for sure. Thank you for listening to
46:06 the Hoosier round table podcast. Again, check out both me and Jack's work at Hoosiersnow.com
46:12 and thank you so much for listening.
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