Alleged Plot To Oust IGP: Another tape emerges, C'ttee will consider in camera hearing - Atta-Akyea | The Big Stories
Alleged Plot To Oust IGP: Another tape emerges, C'ttee will consider in camera hearing - Atta-Akyea | The Big Stories
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NewsTranscript
00:00 All right, so welcome back to the AM Show.
00:04 Let's get into one of our major issues for this morning.
00:08 It's about the public hearing into that particular plan, alleged plot to oust the current IGP,
00:16 Dr. George Akufo-Dampari.
00:18 Well, yesterday, one superintendent had his day at the committee, and he brought out a
00:25 lot of issues that we are not privy to.
00:30 Well, my colleague Samuel Mbura was our man in parliament monitoring the procedure there
00:37 for us, and he joins me in studio with a wrap of how yesterday really went and what we should
00:44 expect.
00:45 Good morning.
00:46 Good morning, Kodjo.
00:47 So you were there.
00:48 Exactly.
00:49 Give us a brief of what happened.
00:50 All right, so yesterday, the third police witness, that is George, also pretended George
00:54 Asare, appeared before the ad hoc committee probing into the leaked IGP tape.
00:59 We know that these were the three names that were captured in the tape that Bugure Nnabu
01:06 presented to the committee on, was scrutinized by the committee on.
01:12 So the first person, Eric Emmanuel, JB superintendent, he is a director at the Forensic Laboratory
01:18 Criminal Investigation Department, Ghana Police Headquarters.
01:22 He has taken his turn.
01:23 When he came, he denied knowing about the plot, and then the committee interrogated
01:30 him briefly, and then he was released.
01:33 Same was applied to COP Alex Mensah.
01:35 He had about two days to be questioned and all that.
01:39 So the third person, Superintendent George Asare, had his turn yesterday, and then we
01:45 know, per the narration from Bugure Nnabu, he is the one who allegedly started the entire
01:51 plotting.
01:53 So when he appeared before the committee, he was asked about how he got to know Bugure
01:57 Nnabu, and that's where the genesis of it started.
01:59 So he indicated that Chief Bugure Nnabu's son, one prophet Emmanuel Bugure Nnabu, who
02:06 was his spiritual father.
02:09 So the son of Bugure Nnabu is a prophet, and then he, and what he called his spiritual
02:16 father to he, Superintendent George Asare.
02:19 So it was one of the usual meetings that his spiritual father told him that, "Are you
02:25 in the service?
02:26 Are you aware that there's a scout for a new IGP?"
02:28 Then he said, "Oh, he wasn't aware."
02:30 Then he said, "Okay, I will introduce you to my father because you know my father is
02:34 the former regional chairman of the MPP, and he's an influential figure and all that."
02:40 So it was, that was the first time he was, according to his accounts, he was introduced
02:45 to Chief Bugure Nnabu.
02:47 So there was another meeting that Bugure Nnabu, per his accounts, invited him over
02:53 to his house, and that was where he asked him, "So do you have any officer in mind
02:59 that you would want to recommend for the position of the IGP?
03:02 Because we are told, I mean, the information coming in is that the president wants to replace
03:07 IGP Akufo-Danpari."
03:09 So that was where he mentioned COP Alex Mensah, and COP Alex Mensah is his boss, so he has
03:16 worked with him closely before, so he knows his capabilities.
03:19 That is where the meeting started.
03:22 So that was the second meeting.
03:24 The third meeting was when he was to present COP Alex Mensah's CV.
03:30 So he gave out the CV.
03:32 Then later there was a meeting that was scheduled, according to Superintendent George Asare.
03:37 On 19th of June, Chief Bugure Nnabu called him like 13 times to come for the meeting,
03:44 but he couldn't answer.
03:45 And then later his boss, COP Alex Mensah, also called him, so he didn't understand
03:49 why the calls were coming.
03:51 And then he followed up to the office of Bugure Nnabu at Osu, and then that was where the
03:56 first tip, or the tip that we are hearing, was reportedly recorded.
04:00 So when he was going there, he was suspicious.
04:02 Why is the man calling me several times like that?
04:06 So that was why he was alarmed, and according to him, he also armed himself before going
04:12 to meet Bugure Nnabu, because he knows that he's a politician and anything could come
04:16 up.
04:17 They were also having a suspicion that...
04:18 So he suspected that a recording like that could happen.
04:22 Could happen.
04:23 So he also armed himself.
04:24 In fact, he has told the committee that he has a video, and I've already seen snipers
04:28 of the video on social media.
04:31 I spoke with his lawyer.
04:32 His lawyer said it has not been drawn to his attention yet, but he saw something like that.
04:37 So he was now questioned on the administration of the IGP Dan Parry, which he maintained
04:46 that he had a lot to say, but wouldn't want to say them in public.
04:50 He requested for an in-camera hearing, just like the case of COP Alex Mensah, to spill
04:56 the beans.
04:57 He says he has a lot to say and tell the committee, because all is not going well in the Ghana
05:02 police service, and he thinks that the committee needs to know.
05:05 All right, there is more that you tell us, but we have your report, which is a wrap of
05:11 how yesterday went, ready.
05:13 Let's take a look at it now.
05:15 When we return, there is more for us to share with you on this public hearing into the plans
05:19 to oust the current IGP, Dr. George Akufo Dan Parry.
05:27 A police officer, Superintendent George Asare, who is collaborating, claims that the IGP
05:33 engineered their conversation with star witness Bugrin N'Abu to be recorded.
05:38 George Asare, in spite of his request to give his testimony in-camera, alleged Daniel Bugrin
05:44 N'Abu was used as a conduit by the IGP to trap them.
05:48 He's, however, denied portions of the tip.
05:51 He claims they are adopted.
05:54 But later, upon further inquiries, remember I'm a policeman.
06:01 I'm very smart.
06:04 But that side, when we meet in-camera, you will know who did the recording, who was sent
06:12 by who, and on what promise to who.
06:17 You will get it when we meet in-camera.
06:20 Further alleges a contract was awarded to Daniel Bugrin N'Abu by the IGP to procure
06:25 over 40,000 boots for the Ghana police service as a reward.
06:30 And now, oh, he has lied on several occasions.
06:33 I have a large Bugrin N'Abu on tape.
06:36 Everything he came to say here on video in his office, the same office.
06:42 His relationship with IGP and contracts, 40,000 boots, contracts.
06:52 Mr Asare also revealed that Daniel Bugrin N'Abu suggested special fortification for
06:58 them to secure the position of the IGP.
07:01 Honourable Chair, like I said, that's spiritual matter.
07:08 It was in two ways, either Christianity or other faiths.
07:15 But he insisted, he insisted, please, Honourable Chair, he insisted that he has some malams,
07:26 I use those words interchangeably, or imams.
07:30 Yes.
07:32 Yes.
07:33 But Alfred Dacwa, who is lawyer for Superintendent George Asare, says he is satisfied with the
07:40 probe so far because it has given his client an opportunity to clear his name in the public.
07:47 Had already been crucified.
07:50 And at least today he's been able to at least say his side of the story.
07:54 And I think that's the most important thing now.
07:56 Would you be surprised if the committee doesn't invite the IGP?
07:59 His name keeps coming up.
08:00 Would you be surprised as a lawyer if the committee doesn't invite the IGP?
08:04 I think it wouldn't even be fair to the IGP if he's not invited because allegations have
08:11 been made against him.
08:13 It's important that, I mean, principles of natural justice, he also gets the opportunity
08:17 to also say his side.
08:22 He doesn't need to have a case.
08:24 He was invited as a witness so he came to say his side of the story.
08:28 It's not really about the republic against him or he against somebody.
08:32 His name came up and I think he came to explain how all these things happen.
08:38 Meanwhile, there is an emergence of a new take the Ad Hoc Committee is considering to
08:43 scrutinize.
08:44 Chairman of the committee Samuel Atachia said they will consider even an in-camera hearing
08:51 and invite all persons of interest in the probe.
08:55 That the first audio is not authentic in terms of some aspects but they admitted that some
09:03 of them were authentic.
09:05 Now we've had the benefit of a tape on the assumption that it's authentic.
09:12 The members of the committee will have to internalize the tape and it is also transcribed
09:19 and look at it and that will give us the ideas as to what to do.
09:23 First of all, do we bring all the stakeholders together with their lawyers for cross examination
09:31 and cross firing to take place?
09:33 As we listen attentively and later when they finish, they will have our turn.
09:39 And then are there matters which should not come into the public domain because of national
09:44 security implications?
09:45 So we'll do long in-house or in-camera hearing.
09:52 For now, all four witnesses including Daniel Bugrinabu, COP Alex Mensah, Superintendent
09:59 Emmanuel Ejebi and Superintendent George Asare have since been released.
10:04 The Parliament Ad Hoc Committee will continue in an in-camera hearing of this probe from
10:10 Parliament House Samuel Mbura.
10:15 So welcome back.
10:16 Samuel Mbura is here.
10:18 So Sammy, the in-camera hearing comes off today, right?
10:21 That is not certain.
10:23 The committee, what the chairman said, they are going to internalize the new tape that
10:27 has emerged and then they will decide the way forward.
10:30 So that's where they will invite the lawyers of the witnesses and the witness themselves
10:36 for them to scrutinize it.
10:38 If need be, they ask further questions because you know some of the witnesses have already
10:42 indicated they want to give an in-camera testimony on this whole issue.
10:46 So details of that will be communicated.
10:49 But what we do know is that there's another interested party, the committee, that some
10:54 police officers have also requested to make an input into the probe.
11:00 The committee chair confirmed that and that they will also open it up to any person of
11:06 interest or anyone that is mentioned in the course of the interrogation to also come and
11:10 give the information.
11:11 Mind you, this committee is not just limited to a leak tape alone.
11:16 They are on a fact-finding mission.
11:19 After that, they will present their report.
11:21 A fact-finding mission into what?
11:23 Not just, like you said, the Ugandan police service is not under trial.
11:27 However, the entire conversation is not limited to only the leak tape.
11:31 They were constituted to look into a leak tape.
11:33 However, the dimension is expanding.
11:36 So every member or any person that is of interest to the tape would be mentioned.
11:42 So after collating the views and the evidence that they gather from this investigation,
11:46 they will put it in their report, add recommendations.
11:49 A reason is said that possibly the IGP could be invited to also give answers because so
11:56 many things have been said about him and at least it is fair for them to also hear from
12:01 him.
12:02 So the committee is really expanding the work or the investigation but not limited to the
12:08 four witnesses captured in the alleged tape there.
12:13 Interesting.
12:14 This one says, "Watching from Southeast Nigeria, Arinzo Nwankwo Asaya sent this one in.
12:20 Grateful to you for joining us from Nigeria."
12:24 So as for today, there won't be any sitting?
12:29 That we are not setting.
12:30 We are not setting.
12:31 They said they will start an in-camera hearing.
12:32 So we are yet to find out from them when exactly that will start.
12:37 But we know very well that the media will not be allowed to be part of it.
12:42 But being around the committee, what has been the extra thing you've heard that we haven't
12:47 heard?
12:48 Well, everything has been captured in public.
12:50 I think the committee has given all of them a fair hearing on the issue and they have
12:54 been legally represented.
12:56 All witnesses who appeared before, it has not been a hostile environment.
13:00 After the sitting, you see that they come to greet one another.
13:03 Despite the grilling of these witnesses, you see that they go to have a third-by-third
13:10 conversation after the meeting and all that.
13:12 So it has been an environment that has been created for them to come and help them unravel
13:20 these findings or these allegations that have been captured in the leaked tape that has
13:25 gone viral.
13:26 But the probe sort of revealed that all is not well with the police institution.
13:33 Is that something that is shared by the committee?
13:36 Well, the committee has expressed interest in getting to know what the exact problems
13:40 are in the Ghana Police Service.
13:42 COP Alex Mensah said that right now the junior ranks and different ranks in the Ghana Police
13:47 Service from top to down are not happy about the allegation about the administration of
13:53 Akufo-Danpare.
13:54 A reason they want to open up more.
13:57 Second has to do with the promotions.
13:59 You know, I was told, and the committee chairman, Samuel Atachia, confirmed that some officers
14:06 have sued IGP Danpare over promotion issues.
14:11 And these issues were also captured by the witness that appeared before the committee.
14:16 So it has actually been an interesting sitting so far.
14:21 And we are hoping to see, or waiting to see how the entire story will progress.
14:26 It's very, very interesting.
14:28 If we're able to tell how many of the police personnel who have sued the IGP for what's
14:35 happening.
14:36 But it's interesting that all of this probe is bringing out how the police institution
14:42 is in itself.
14:44 I mean, we'll see what will become of the institution going forward after the probe.
14:50 But lawyer Bobby Banson is a private legal practitioner.
14:53 He's joining us on phone.
14:54 Good morning to you.
14:55 Thanks for joining us.
14:56 Good morning, Samuel, and thanks for having me.
15:00 With all the probe that's been happening, what has been the take away for you as a lawyer?
15:07 Huh?
15:09 Well, because you added that caveat as a lawyer.
15:16 Okay, okay, okay, let me remove the lawyer from there.
15:20 What has been the take away for you?
15:21 So I can feel free to talk.
15:22 Exactly, feel free.
15:23 Yeah.
15:24 Well, the first question I asked myself is whether or not the probe should have been
15:31 held in camera and not in public.
15:36 You know, we are dealing with security issues, national security issues.
15:41 We are dealing with discussions that border on the top hierarchy of the Ghana Police Service,
15:47 including the IGP.
15:49 Now we know that once it's held in open, we cannot discount the fact that almost every
15:56 police officer, whatever rank, will be interested in the outcome.
16:01 Now some of these things are coming out.
16:06 Whether they are true or whether they are not true, they'll create perception.
16:10 You will have people within the police service that will not like the IGP.
16:15 You will have people within the police service that will like the IGP.
16:20 Now the publicization of some of these comments from persons that have appeared before the
16:27 committee, whether these comments are true or not, would feed into a certain narrative,
16:34 whether for good or for bad.
16:37 And no matter the outcome of the probe, the consequences of it, in terms of it affecting
16:44 the morale of members of the police service, either right or wrong, cannot be whittled
16:50 down.
16:51 And so I was hoping that they would first have the probe not in public, but then behind
16:57 closed doors.
16:58 Secondly, I'm asking myself, what is the end game?
17:03 So when they are done with the probe, the recommendation, what are they going to do?
17:10 Because it's only the president that appoints the IGP.
17:13 The other members of the police service, depending on their rank, are appointed by the IGP or
17:19 appointed by the police council or so.
17:23 And so what would be the end game of the committee?
17:27 These are some of the questions that I've been asking myself.
17:31 And listening to some of the things that are being said by the persons that have appeared
17:35 before them, I think that no matter what happens, we have to have a serious look at the police
17:43 service.
17:44 And then maybe the police council should also be given either more powers or, if they already
17:51 have the powers, should be able to get involved in some of these things so that it will not
17:55 degenerate into something that would be out of control.
18:00 So you've been asking yourself about the end game.
18:05 You've said that there should be some-- I mean, this should lead to probably a reform
18:11 of the police service.
18:13 But what is your reading of what the committee will be listening to the questioning, their
18:20 responses given?
18:22 What's your reading of what possibly could be the recommendation by the committee?
18:27 Well, I think that without prejudice to the final outcome, from what I have heard so far,
18:36 like I said, I think there should be a way where the police council should be empowered
18:43 to receive complaints from officials or officers within the police service on some of these
18:52 things.
18:53 For example, a public notice that some officers have sued the IGP for allegedly not following
19:00 established protocols or their code of office or conduct when it comes to promotion.
19:08 And they are now in public domain, discaptioning it.
19:11 The apathy it creates.
19:12 Are these not things that can be handled by the police council?
19:17 Will they not have more authority to be able to handle some of these things internally
19:23 so that they do not come out to the public domain?
19:25 Because once they come out to the public domain, the confidence that we are supposed to have
19:31 as a people in the police service may be affected.
19:35 But if it's handled in that manner, I believe, with the police council being given the authority,
19:41 having a form of, like, you know, like they have, I know the police have its own internal
19:48 procedure for handling disciplinary issues.
19:51 But these are not necessary disciplinary issues.
19:53 These are issues affecting the governance of the police service.
19:58 And I think that the police council should have some form of authority to be able to
20:03 resolve some of these things by alternative, by this new resolution.
20:11 Now the police service itself from this hearing comes across as one that is very unstable.
20:19 I mean, from the outside we wouldn't know.
20:22 But once this hearing has opened up the service to all of us, we are getting to feel that
20:28 the service is not that united.
20:31 How do we, I mean, as I give more powers to the council, how do we cure the failings of
20:38 the institution as is being pointed out to us through this hearing?
20:42 You are echoing the sentiment I shared.
20:47 You said categorically that some of these hearings, the revelations coming out of it
20:52 point to one thing, that there is no unity in the police service.
20:56 And you as an ordinary person who expects that the police service would be able to provide
21:01 security within the country.
21:04 And if there is no unity, the chain of command may be broken at the point in time, the ordinary
21:09 person may be affected.
21:11 I believe that when this is done, the executives which have, I think, overall responsibility
21:19 of the police service and the minister in charge, they should be able to sit all the
21:24 persons affected down, should be able to resolve their personal differences, and then come
21:30 up with a joint statement for the public to reassure us that all differences have been
21:36 resolved, the police is united as forever, and whatever remedies or recommendations that
21:42 ought to be implemented to ensure that there is no repetition of these affairs would be
21:48 done.
21:49 I believe that would give us some level of assurance that whatever the problem was, there
21:53 is some attempt to resolve it.
21:58 All of this thing is coming due to the appointment of the IGP.
22:04 Must we continue with the protocol or it should change?
22:12 That the president will appoint the IGP?
22:15 Exactly.
22:16 I keep saying that we should be able to build strong institutions, so that irrespective
22:26 of who heads that institution, the structures are there such that they cannot be influenced
22:34 by the executives.
22:36 And so if the president appoints an IGP, the IGP should be appointed from within the structures
22:43 that have already been built, devoid of political influence, so that whoever becomes the IGP
22:52 has already had these values of the police service, service of integrity instilled in
22:59 him, such that he sees his appointment as an elevation or a crowning of his years of
23:06 undiluted service to the police service, and that he does not owe allegiance to whoever
23:12 appointed him, but to the constitution and the people of Ghana.
23:16 So the appointment by the president, I believe is in consultation with the council of state.
23:23 I know what the Supreme Court has interpreted consultation to be, but if we take that authority
23:29 from the president, who would we give to appoint the IGP?
23:33 Who would we give it to?
23:34 Definitely to be given to an institution or somebody that is also headed or constituted
23:39 by human beings.
23:40 And so for me the focus should not necessarily be on who appoints, but that we invest in
23:48 building structures right from your entry level up to the highest rank, it should be
23:54 on merit, so that you know that you didn't enter in the first place because of political
23:59 affiliation, and your promotion to whatever rank should also not be because of political
24:04 affiliation.
24:05 If we start that from the root, whoever becomes IGP should not be a problem because we know
24:12 that the structures are so built and so strong that that person has no chance to corrupt
24:19 it.
24:20 - Very interesting.
24:23 The police who seem, and again, when it comes to the appointment, if Bugri Nabo had not
24:32 set out to receive the CV of someone who is qualified, and what have you, probably this
24:39 could have been cured.
24:40 And that's why it's important that we find a way to probably cure this way of looking
24:46 for an IGP, where a party fanatic who is known to be close to the power that be will set
24:54 out to go and look for someone to lobby for.
25:02 Now at the end of the probe, how do we get all the parties to reconcile?
25:08 Because I see that COP Mensa and the IGP, as well as the superintendent, reconciling
25:15 them will be quite a hectic job.
25:18 How must that be approached?
25:19 - Well, we have, like I said, the police council, we have the council of state.
25:25 I believe that they are made up of persons that have the necessary experience and expertise
25:31 and the temperament to be able to resolve some of these things.
25:34 I do not think that whatever problem between them is unresolvable.
25:39 I mean, they are human beings, they are in this country, we have certain values, we have
25:43 certain cultures that I think that should be in books to be able to resolve their differences.
25:49 And I think that having the police council or the council of state constitute a committee
25:54 or something like that, just to meet them to resolve these issues, would not be out
25:58 of place.
25:59 I am very confident that we will find a resolution to their impact between them.
26:05 - All right.
26:08 So what will be your expectation of how this should be?
26:12 We are told that the police, the committee is watching or listening to another lead tape,
26:19 and then they will decide to whether bring in the IGP himself to have his day or not.
26:25 What will be your expectation of what the conclusion the committee will be arriving
26:28 at?
26:29 - I think the committee, I expect them to invite the IGP.
26:38 I mean, he's the head of the institution.
26:42 They are a fact-finding committee, and so if allegations have been made against somebody,
26:48 it's only fair that that person is given an opportunity to respond to those allegations
26:54 and speak his side of the story.
26:55 They are not operating like a court where an allegation has been made, and so he who
26:56 accepts must prove.
26:57 That is not how the committee is operating.
26:58 They are operating as a fact-finding committee.
26:59 So while the IGP has been mentioned as somebody who organized the recording, I believe so,
27:00 that was the allegation made against him, and he's leached the case.
27:01 It's only fair that he's given an opportunity to respond to these allegations.
27:02 So I expect the committee to invite him.
27:03 - Okay.
27:04 All right.
27:05 So, I'm going to ask you to give us a little bit of time to think about this.
27:06 I know that you're going to be a little bit more technical, but I'm going to ask you
27:07 to give us a little bit of time to think about this.
27:08 - Okay.
27:09 - So, I'm going to ask you to give us a little bit of time to think about this.
27:31 - Okay.
27:32 - All right.
27:33 So, I'm going to ask you to give us a little bit of time to think about this.
28:01 So, I'm going to ask you to give us a little bit of time to think about this.
28:02 So, I'm going to ask you to give us a little bit of time to think about this.
28:03 So, I'm going to ask you to give us a little bit of time to think about this.
28:04 So, I'm going to ask you to give us a little bit of time to think about this.
28:04 [Music]