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00:00 So Patrick, only one place to start.
00:03 Hibs and Bottom of the League announcing yesterday that they have parted company with Lee Johnson.
00:10 Did you expect him to be given maybe even slightly longer?
00:13 Has this come as any sort of surprise to you?
00:16 I think not so much a surprise when you see the reaction from the fans to Saturday's performance
00:22 and the nature of Saturday's performance and obviously the result.
00:26 I mean, the last time Hibs lost their opening three league games was about 20 years ago.
00:34 But that was against the Hearts Rangers in Aberdeen.
00:36 I think this time around, coming up against teams that last year on separate occasions
00:42 they managed to beat fairly convincingly.
00:44 There was the January win against Motherwell.
00:47 There was that 4-1 win over Livingston in West Lothian and the beats at Mirren,
00:52 at least once at home and away.
00:54 But I think the fans had turned.
00:57 You could hear chanting at the game, especially in the aftermath of the loss of the second goal,
01:04 which came right after Hibs had equalised.
01:05 You could hear the fans voicing their displeasure.
01:08 I won't repeat the words right here, but I'm sure you can imagine.
01:11 And that happened a couple of times, coupled with booing and jeering at half-time and full-time.
01:17 And I think there is a sort of understanding amongst the Hibs support that once a manager loses
01:22 the support of the East stand, then there's really no way back.
01:25 And that seems to have been what's happened this time.
01:30 I think if you look at the early European results, particularly the way that Hibs got past Luzern,
01:37 perhaps that gave Johnson a little bit more time, a little more breathing space.
01:42 But I mean, the players have said it, management have said it as well, to be honest.
01:48 You can't really start off a domestic season with no points from nine.
01:51 And that's exactly what they've done.
01:53 And I mean, even in recent history, when Hibs got relegated back in 2013,
02:00 it was a similar sort of case of events at the start of the season when they'd maybe lost two out of three games.
02:06 To lose three out of three and with difficult tests against Aberdeen and Comarnach to come,
02:12 I think even leaving aside a potentially morale-denting defeat by Aston Villa on Thursday night,
02:19 then I just think the club felt they had to act in order to try and ensure that the season doesn't run away from them.
02:26 Because we've seen it so often with clubs, a few of the wrong type of results,
02:31 and it can leave you adrift from the rest of the pack.
02:33 And I think given the club's targets, the club's aims with wanting to finish in sort of the top three or four
02:40 and go deep in both domestic cups every year as a minimum,
02:44 there was just a feeling that with the current management structure in place, that wasn't going to happen.
02:50 So I suppose not too surprised given the reaction from the fans at the weekend.
02:57 And yeah, perhaps the European games might have given them something of a stay of execution,
03:02 because it did feel very quick between the final whistle on Saturday and the statement coming out on Sunday.
03:08 So I don't think it was a knee-jerk reaction.
03:10 I think it was one that had probably been discussed already in a case of like,
03:15 well, if this happens, we'll do this.
03:17 If that happens, maybe we'll push it back a week or two and see how things go.
03:22 Do you think potentially it was the result in Andorra that might have done it?
03:27 Like from that point on, all the Hibs board really needed was a reason.
03:31 Like that result alone, had it not been a two-leg tie and had that actually put them out of Europe,
03:37 that might have been enough. But I think just losing to a team of that calibre might have meant the word just,
03:43 he was on thin ice from that point onwards.
03:46 Potentially, but I mean, other managers at bigger teams than Hibs have lost ties in a similar fashion.
03:53 I think back to Brendan Rodgers in Celtic losing to Lincoln Red Imps.
03:58 I think Rangers, Hearts, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock have all had similar results to teams
04:06 that the expectation would be on them to beat in recent memory.
04:09 I think if you look back to last season, Hibs had a really poor run of form ahead of the World Cup break.
04:16 It was up and down after the World Cup break as well that you'll remember,
04:22 he was probably under pressure in November, he was probably under pressure in January.
04:26 There was the post-match, I don't know what to call it,
04:30 performance almost at Tyne Castle after the 3-0 defeat in the New Year derby where
04:36 he talked about moving out 10 players and talked about
04:42 mistakes that he felt the club had made prior to his arrival and how he felt this was a long-term project
04:49 that he needed four or five transfer windows to turn it around.
04:53 I suspect that, I mean, Hibs did manage to turn things around in the second half of last season.
04:58 They had some good results, they ended up finishing fifth,
05:02 which was obviously an improvement on eighth the previous season,
05:04 and they came within a whisker of finishing fourth,
05:07 and they weren't a million miles away from finishing third either.
05:09 And when you consider how well, for instance, Aberdeen did under Barry Robson
05:13 towards the second half of last season, how well Hearts did at times,
05:17 it probably shouldn't have been as close as it was in the end.
05:20 And I think that probably bought him some time from the hierarchy,
05:26 and I think an understanding of having Brian McDermott in as a director of football
05:30 would mean that recruitment this summer would be better,
05:32 and that would give the club a platform to go and better their performance last season
05:38 and not have instances where they were going on seven or eight games,
05:44 seven or eight game runs without a win or even without a positive result.
05:49 But I think, I'm not sure it's just down to results,
05:53 I think you could sort of see, particularly with the team selection,
05:56 I think, against Livingston, and there's been the odd little bits and pieces
06:00 during games where players are maybe reacting certain ways to instructions from the bench
06:04 that normally you would maybe dismiss as just a kind of in the heat of the moment,
06:09 it's in the middle of the game.
06:10 But that coupled with the way results have been going,
06:13 you maybe think, is there something else going on a bit here?
06:15 Is there a feeling that, you know, perhaps he doesn't have the same sort of support
06:20 in the dressing room that he might have had last season?
06:23 So, I mean, I'm sure the result in Andorra contributed,
06:27 but I wouldn't have thought that was the sole reason,
06:30 I wouldn't have thought that would have been the kind of the one event
06:33 that sort of tipped the board over the edge.
06:35 I think it's probably been on the cards since sort of the end of last calendar year,
06:45 before the World Cup date.
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