Manhood - Episode 17 Season Finale
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00:00 Manhood brought to you by Jameson, natural sources since 1922 and Racetrack.
00:07 [Music]
00:13 Thank you for once again joining us for Manhood. This is the season finale.
00:17 But as we've said over time, that the conversation never ends.
00:21 Maybe the episode may end, maybe this season, well, the season does end, but the conversation continues.
00:27 But don't worry, we'll continue to have these conversations, but we need to take a break.
00:31 We need to regroup, we need to do the research, hear from a lot of the young men, women, older men, and older women, of course,
00:40 to ensure that what we bring, even though it's very conversational, and as Joe Veale many times in some jokes are cracked,
00:46 it's a very serious topic because at the end, what we want to achieve is to be better as brothers.
00:53 Today's topic, a bit off topic in certain ways, men are from Mars, women are from Venus.
01:00 We've heard it so many times. And at the end of it all, a lot of it comes down to triggers.
01:07 And you hear women a lot of times say, you know, men and their sh*t.
01:11 And what I'm trying to get across today, and hopefully in a sort of synopsis,
01:17 a culmination of nuggets that we have discussed over the period of the season,
01:24 is that if we continue to think the same way and do the same thing over and over and over again,
01:30 then that's the definition of insanity. We need to make the change.
01:33 And if someone's at 80, then you can't be at 30 or 40 or 50.
01:37 You can only be at 20 as a max, because there's only 100%.
01:41 So I'm appealing to all those that are listening and hearing that let's try to make the change.
01:48 Let the change begin with us. And that's the only way that we're going to be better as brothers,
01:54 better as partners, better in a relationship, better as humans, because we're not dolphins.
02:01 We're not horses. We can only be better within ourselves as humans.
02:06 There's only a male and female. And therefore, if we aren't batting for one another, then who is?
02:12 So once again, it's a pleasure. Johansi Ayo-Dike, Behavior Change Consultant.
02:18 A good friend, Jesse Ramdeo, Senior Reporter/Producer.
02:24 And of course, Niall McNish, Producer, Actor, Tooth Creator.
02:33 There's a couple of things inside this. So really excited to have all of us within this conversation today.
02:41 So season finale, guys. Season finale.
02:44 A lot of nuggets, Johansi, have come across this table over a period of time.
02:50 That is true. Men are from Mars, women are from Venus. I've heard that since I was a child.
02:57 I haven't read the book. Right now, a group of us men, we have the audio books.
03:03 So we kind of just kind of listening to it so we could understand.
03:07 One of the guys thus far who almost completed, he was sharing some of this stuff.
03:12 And his goal is goal because I once heard a quote that says,
03:18 "Don't try to understand women. Just accept who they are."
03:24 Right. So don't try to understand women. You know, you always hear men trying to understand women.
03:29 They have some jokes where this is the book. This is the book to understand women.
03:33 When you open it, it's a blank. Right.
03:36 I've read that book before. That's a meme actually as well.
03:40 But he was saying, don't try to understand them. Just accept who they are.
03:45 Yes. Right. And I'll go even a little deeper because all women are not the same.
03:48 Correct. So the woman in your life, the woman you're interacting with, accept who they are.
03:53 Sometimes you may not have to like it.
03:55 I'm saying like it all the time, but accept who they are. Any thoughts?
04:01 I mean, even on that, I mean, just to say that, you know, even as you said, just accept who they are.
04:08 You know, we ask the same. We ask that women also accept who men are.
04:13 And I'm not just talking about men. Everyone's individual in their own.
04:17 But even in that individuality, right, you are still the same to someone.
04:21 Because you're not, that's not unique. So even I might specifically like this as crazy as it might be.
04:28 I'm almost guaranteed there are hundreds of thousands of others that I haven't probably met as yet that feel the same way.
04:34 True. So, you know, we're not reinventing the wheel here.
04:37 So it's a case of both. It comes out of mutual respect and understanding the innate behaviors, the innate, what makes you a man.
04:48 So whether we come back to the blueprint, the blueprint, so whether it comes back down to men are hunters, women are nurturers, and you take it from there.
04:57 That's what we're asking for, that respect of that and not try to understand that, but to accept it.
05:02 We don't want, we don't have to understand.
05:05 I think the airlines, the beauty of it, accepting the fabric of a woman, what constitutes a woman,
05:14 and whether that woman is a partner, a relative, you know, not looking necessarily all the time for the negatives or the faults or the flaws,
05:28 but accepting them as they are, you know, to me, that is the beauty in it.
05:33 And it took me a long time to accept that and to realize that.
05:37 And I'll dial back, I'll dial into a point and I'll share my relationship with my wife.
05:44 It took me a real long time to accept certain things, right?
05:48 Throughout the journey, I--
05:50 Like what?
05:52 Perhaps, one, as an individual, I tend to be very independent.
05:59 You know, I tend to be things, being a clean freak, stuff like that now, you know.
06:05 Coming into a relationship, sharing a home and that kind of thing, realizing that I'm sharing a space with someone,
06:11 certain things that I am accustomed with is no longer--that mold has been broken, right?
06:18 Having to know, in my mind, it's like, "Gosh, why you can't get certain things right? Why things can't be done as they're to me?"
06:24 But then I realized, "Jesse, it makes more sense if you accept certain things, change what you can as an individual, right?
06:30 And perhaps let that individual learn from that as well, you know?"
06:34 To me, I'm not here to control.
06:37 I strongly believe that we struggle as men with a power dynamic.
06:41 Absolutely.
06:42 You see that power dynamic?
06:43 The root of it.
06:44 Yeah, boy, that power dynamic and two working people, I mean, there's a recipe for disaster right there.
06:51 There are so many things coming out of that, you know.
06:54 But like you said, I mean, two become one and one become two, you know, in a scenario of marriage.
07:01 And it's a matter of when you go to that sort of depth, it's compromise.
07:05 Correct.
07:06 And understanding your mental--
07:08 Two become one and one become two.
07:10 Two become one because, you know, it's one household.
07:13 It's one, you know, you have a common goal.
07:15 One becomes two.
07:16 And one then becomes two because in his case, for example, you know, he was an individual at that particular point, an independent.
07:22 And now it's two persons in that.
07:24 It's a depth that--
07:25 Okay, okay.
07:26 --over a period of time, you know, it either rise or become, you know.
07:34 So, you know, and that's a really solid point, Jesse, you know, but, you know, we come back to the fact that it is a power dynamic.
07:45 And men are men.
07:47 You know, there are certain things that we can change and there are certain things that as we keep coming back to that are innate.
07:53 Even as a man, we're also different and, you know, we keep saying it many a time, opinions are like [expletive] you know, everybody has one.
08:02 And therefore, you in your-- someone's opinion of somebody or someone's thoughts on someone is varied, you know, whether it be, you know, male or female.
08:14 So, even though a woman might like something with a man or particular men that she may be involved with, right, doesn't mean that that's all men.
08:24 You know, it's just who interaction and what those men are being and whether they're becoming, you know, I saw something yesterday, man boys or man child, you know what I mean, a man child, which is a topic I'd love to discuss in detail at one point.
08:40 So, and it depends whether she's accepting of that or in that space that a man child turns on and she wants to be that man child or gives her, you know, levels of feeling younger and doing certain things and wild and he's adventurous and you hear all these things.
08:55 Whether you want a grown [expletive] man, as some say.
09:01 Well, that acceptance comes with twofold, because we men first, even without a woman, we have to accept ourselves, right?
09:10 We should, I don't like to say have to, because I don't tell people what they have to do.
09:14 But we should accept who we are at whatever stage we are.
09:18 Even if I'm a 40 year old man and people think I should be way ahead in terms of maturity or whatever it is, but if I'm not there yet, accepting yourself first, because if you don't accept yourself, that means you're not facing the truth.
09:31 Correct.
09:32 If you're not facing the truth, then you can't do anything about it.
09:35 You're totally ignorant.
09:37 The person that's with you also needs to do that.
09:39 It's either, okay, this is how they are, right?
09:41 I need to accept this.
09:43 I need to accept what they're doing.
09:44 I don't go into something thinking you're going to change it.
09:47 It also took me a long time to acknowledge, recognize, and accept things about me that I just didn't want to.
09:56 I am a man, I have absolutely no patience, right?
10:00 And I saw that more, I saw that the most when I got married.
10:04 I couldn't believe I lacked that amount of patience.
10:07 Right? And when I got into that relationship and I became, when I was married, even during the process, you know, things would happen and triggering me, triggering my, testing my patience.
10:21 And I'd be like, but Jesse, in the media, you're supposed to have the most patience out of everybody, that kind of thing.
10:25 You know, trying to convince myself that, A, you're wrong, I write, until I step back, look at it holistically and realize, Jesse, you're wrong, boy.
10:38 You know, there are things that you need to, like you said, you should accept.
10:42 You should be willing to identify, I should say.
10:45 There are things you should identify, recognize, acknowledge, and accept.
10:50 Because I think it bodes well for your development as an individual.
10:54 If you could not be ignorant to things that augur well for your growth and development.
11:00 You know, now as an individual at 33, trying to work on my patience level, trying to be better, trying to be a bit more understanding.
11:09 I think you're preparing me for what is to come, which for me, the next step is, you know, fatherhood.
11:14 Right? So, I mean, being objective about things, being honest with yourself is really also very critical.
11:23 That's the hardest part. That's the part that most people, they stumble on.
11:28 And I was number to ask, like, what is the exercise, practical exercise that anybody could do, but especially men, to analyze themselves?
11:38 Because a lot of the time we get caught up in our egos a lot.
11:41 And as was literally, because I don't want to blame women as well, but everybody tends to be blind to the perception of the other person. Right?
11:53 So, now that's just me. And I want to be in a moment where, you know, I'm angry, but in the back of my mind, I know that I'm wrong.
12:02 I know that there's a change that I could do and what is being said to me has some credibility, you know, in an argument.
12:09 And I just choose and just to fight a little bit longer because I don't want to lose because of the ego.
12:15 What is the exercise I could do in a moment or what can I say to bring myself back to reality and really be able to release that?
12:24 You know what? I was wrong.
12:28 Well, you know, I like to come in all the time saying something, you know, wrong and strong, you know, and that's where it comes from.
12:37 You know, you want to be, you know, you pick your battle, but then in picking your battle, you could win the battle, but you could lose the war.
12:44 And a lot of times, as I've said on, you know, other conversations that we've had with manhood is that part of it, you have to look at the, you are not the problem.
12:53 Your partner is the problem. The problem is the problem.
12:56 And it's us identifying that. And once you can be mature enough, you know, people use things like safe words.
13:02 And in the heat of the moment, I challenge anybody to tell me that those safe words or those things that you put in, you know, whatever that may be, work each and every time.
13:13 It doesn't because there will be a point that you'll be like, F that safe word.
13:17 I want to make this particular point. And 90% of the time, you realize it has nothing to do with that particular issue.
13:24 It's a lot of pent up other stuff that brings you to that point.
13:29 So let me answer, Nyle, and then you and then you'll come in, Jesse.
13:34 When you're asking what is the technique that you could do, now what I'm going to say impractical, the first thing I thought about is get married.
13:41 Let me tell you why I say that. And then I'll give you something practical.
13:45 I realize, and it's me personally, without being married, I didn't see the full picture of myself. Right?
13:54 Being single, I know what I like, what I could do, even reach a certain level of success. Right?
14:01 And I'm cool. I'm good. But when a wife came into my life, even though I didn't like certain things, because I didn't want to see certain parts of myself, and then I couldn't.
14:13 And I say couldn't, that's an important part. I couldn't see parts of myself.
14:17 So having a wife, whether you want to call it a good wife or a bad wife, or not having a wife or somebody looking at you from a different perspective, help a lot. Right?
14:26 So that's the long answer. That's not the short answer.
14:29 The short answer of it is what helped me is doing research, you know, researching it.
14:36 Because there's something, I mean, in the field there's something called the Jahari window. I don't know if you've ever heard about that.
14:42 Jahari window.
14:44 I like it.
14:46 You want to put it in your little tidbit box.
14:49 Just think about a classic window, square, and then with a cross in the middle. So you have four, four segments. Right?
14:55 And the basic is, is how you see yourself, how others see you, then there are parts of you that you don't see that others will see.
15:04 And then there's the unknown. I think I got that correct.
15:07 And when I learned about Jahari window, I always keep that in mind.
15:10 So there's a way I see myself, which is me, but of course could be blinded by ego, could be blinded by triggers, trauma, upbringing, all kind of thing.
15:20 Then it have what people see. And sometimes what people see, sometimes what I want them to see, but also what they're seeing is also based on their own lenses.
15:30 And then there's a part where people seeing things that I'm not seeing.
15:36 And then we go into the unknown. The unknown is, we call it extraneous variables. Things I might see, things I might not see, et cetera.
15:42 So you have all of that in play. So when I do something and there is somebody reacting in a way that I may not want, or I surprise them, why he behaves or why she behaves.
15:52 I no longer come from the place that there's something wrong with them. Right? Now something could be wrong with them too.
15:58 But they're considering now all the options. So what did I do?
16:02 But that's subjective. That something's wrong with them. I'm just saying.
16:06 Yeah, that's subjective. So the objective as you've seen, more objective is looking at, okay, I did what I did. I know my intent.
16:14 But of course, my actions could translate different to my intent. And then not necessarily something wrong with me or them.
16:20 So I'll go in with your premise. It's not something wrong with, it's not a problem with you or me, but the problem is the problem.
16:26 So looking at it from that point of view, it's not that something wrong with me, something wrong with who, but that there's a mistranslation, there's a miscommunication somewhere there.
16:36 And then let me talk.
16:38 So we had to go to a quick break. And I like that because a lot of times, the part I'm agreeing with is that a lot of times you can't see the picture inside the frame.
16:51 Right. You need to step out to be able to see it and appreciate it. But I'm not agreeing with the fact that you have to get married as a result, because marriage comes with its own problems.
17:01 And we want to send people down the road.
17:03 I didn't say that.
17:05 Because a wife, there could be a wifey, you know, and not necessarily a wife. So we take a quick break.
17:12 Welcome back to Manhood. This is the season finale. Not the last conversation, but at least the last one for this season. Right. Not the final conversation.
17:34 We were discussing men are from Mars, women are from Venus. We hear that a million times. And we delve into it today. And when we came, when we left the break, we came, we were talking about marriage and importance of marriage.
17:49 And I was making a little joke with Niall saying that, you know, you need to get married to understand the full gamut of yourself. And that was a joke. Right.
17:56 But of course, I'm not discrediting it either, because marriage helps you even, let me take Rob's point of view, a long term relationship, long term committed relationship.
18:06 You will see yourself, right? If you with yourself, you can't see yourself. It's like you can't see your own nose, you can't see your own forehead. You can't see your own face unless you look in the mirror.
18:15 And the mirror sometimes is your partner. Right. And I was going to share a personal story, but I know you had something burning.
18:25 When we were on the break, we were still talking about it. So jump in.
18:29 I mean, on the topic of marriage and what it constitutes to me, to me, at 33 and growing up, you've always heard the narrative, fall in love.
18:38 I've never believed in that. Because in falling in love, you could fall out of love. I believe in growing in love. That is just me. I know that is subjective.
18:48 But for me, and I experienced it, I experienced falling in love and man falling out of love is equally as easy.
18:55 But growing in love and growing to love somebody is a whole different ballgame.
19:03 And to me, that is what allows for, to me, is a contributing factor in the success of a marriage.
19:12 In that, you know, as much as you're growing as in a marriage, you're also growing as an individual. Right.
19:19 And I often have this concept, zero expectations lead to zero disappointment. And I cannot afford to be disappointed again.
19:32 I feel like, you know, grappling with so many different things, disappointment is probably one of the last things I could deal with in this world.
19:39 You know, so I do have expectations. I have objectives. Right. I try to meet objectives. If I don't meet them, work harder to meet them eventually. Right.
19:49 I don't expect that I'll have the most successful marriage in the universe, but I have objectives that will hopefully make me have a very successful marriage. Right.
20:00 And for me as a young person, little concepts like that, what I've unearthed through my own experiences, and I believe experience is really key.
20:12 Your own individual experience. It's not going to be the same for everybody. And I am seeing, I couldn't be any clearer on this point that everyone's experience is going to be different.
20:25 It has worked for me thus far. Do you mind if I just jump in? It's a challenge, something, right?
20:31 You say that you may not have the most successful marriage, but based on the institution as we know it now, a successful marriage means one of you will die.
20:42 And that's a successful marriage till death do us part. Right. Means that marriage was successful.
20:48 You write a word in my word and that's interesting. Till one of you will die.
20:52 And when you say that you don't have any expectations, this is what I really wanted to challenge is, I feel that one, we as men should not shy away from disappointment because I think that limits us a lot.
21:06 Expectations create standards. And standards is what make us do better, at least in my interpretation.
21:15 So a lot of people, we tend to want to just say, you know, whatever happens, you know, that way I could run away from the fact of that ugly feeling because no one wants to feel disappointed ever, especially in a partner.
21:30 But here's this opportunity to hold someone accountable. Say, hey, this is what I expected from you.
21:36 And this is this is standard I would appreciate. And if you don't meet that standard, here's an opportunity. Yes, I'm disappointed, but here's an opportunity for us to work on it together.
21:47 And I'm OK with making you feel maybe a little bit uncomfortable because no one wants to disappoint someone else either.
21:55 But that's where actual growth is. There's always any pain. You're a gym man. You will only get better or bigger if you feel the hurt.
22:04 And we have to stop shying away from it. OK, so I'm going to take a kind of ramble here.
22:12 The usual. So the. Just to address some competition.
22:17 First, just, you know, I really I really appreciate the honesty, you know, that that that takes a lot to speak about, maybe a past relationship,
22:27 especially when you need present and the fact that this is national national TV to really commit, because what we're trying to do is be real and meet people where they are
22:36 and shying away from the conversation or hiding and trying to be perfect.
22:40 Or this is this doesn't doesn't resolve anything. It doesn't get the message out. It doesn't. We're not reaching people where they are.
22:46 These divisions of grandeur that society is of grandeur and, you know, a couple.
22:51 So I just want to present the fact that I appreciate your honesty with regards to that. And, you know, when you would fall on anything to fall.
22:58 I mean, yes, there's a positive spin on that to say it's about getting back up.
23:02 But to see the fall in love means a trip almost like, you know, there's a there's almost like a negative spin on that.
23:08 I like the whole idea of growing in love and focusing on that and really putting, you know, a commitment to achieving that.
23:17 It's very similar to, I think, a conversation that we had or maybe it was a behind the scenes where, you know, we've had guests and people have written in and commented where they talk about sexless marriages or sexless relationships.
23:29 So they're frustrated on either end who may have a lower libido or who may have had a higher libido.
23:34 And then it comes down to men and their shit or men. All men think about is where their penis is, et cetera, et cetera.
23:39 And in some research, you know, a woman, a woman told me she said, why don't you know what you focus on?
23:46 I like to say that what you focus on is what you see.
23:49 And why is it that couples or in any relationship that you are not saying, OK, you know what, this is my goal.
23:56 Let's agree that this is where we want to get to.
23:59 Like I was discussing with you, Johan, say about marriage and the fact that you need to go into marriage with a clear understanding, almost like a contract to say, OK, let's discuss bills.
24:08 Let's discuss our sexual relationship expectations.
24:10 Now, granted, you change as time goes on, which is why I don't believe in the whole, you know, till death do us part and all that.
24:17 It should simply be, I will always give you my truth because we change as people.
24:23 And I'm saying that going forward, going forward with that thought process is that if you know that you want X amount and you can sit down and agree on it, say, listen, three, can we agree on three times a week?
24:40 And you might say, well, that takes a sort of.
24:43 Not really, you know, but what it does is it gives you a commitment and not only gives you a commitment, but also shows that you're not an option at that point that we're really we both value each other.
24:54 The intent, the intention, the intent, the intention is there.
24:58 And also you can look forward to it.
25:01 It's like eight days Wednesday.
25:02 Hey, fellas, I, you know, I mean, I can't sweat today, but I can't sweat today.
25:13 That is very, very important.
25:15 And so I wanted to presence that, but I also want the presence of, you know, Khalil Gibran.
25:20 You know, I read, you know, most of you may have read the book, The Prophet, and they speak about, you know, when I said about one becoming two, two becoming one.
25:28 Where it's not about people saying, you know, that's my better half or two halves together becoming whole.
25:34 It's a matter of two wholes coming together and making the experience better and not so that you can you still you're still your individual.
25:43 You still have what you need to have, which is why people sometimes have, you know, I think I heard Steve Harvey say about having four accounts.
25:50 You know, you have one account that sets up when the money comes in for bills.
25:54 Right. You have one account that's set up for what the man wants, what the woman wants.
25:58 So that's three accounts. And then you have an account for, you know, vacation and all the all the all the rest of it.
26:06 So that ramble comes to a close with saying that, you know, one thing that, you know, a good friend of ours, Gola, you know, told me that it really was impactful for me is.
26:19 What makes having not necessarily a marriage, but having a long term partner is that person is your witness to your life and that's what you get.
26:31 So, you know, someone you could turn to and say, remember when so-and-so or remember when this happened or they get to know you, get to understand what you like.
26:39 And that that brings you that brings you a certain element of peace.
26:45 So I'm grateful for your ramble. And I was using all my strength to remember what they say with your ramble.
26:52 But it wasn't actually this wasn't a ramble. This was a very good nugget that that you gave us.
26:57 It was a big nugget, but it was still a nugget. Right. All right.
27:00 That's why we'll get paid the big bucks.
27:03 So coming to Jesse, I'm also going to echo Robert's sentiment about being honest, because even in the other conversations we had in manhood,
27:12 we understand one of the major tenets of being a man is being honest, being honest and being able to face your own self.
27:18 And then adding into what Niall was saying about the disappointment.
27:22 We as men, we do shy away from disappointment a lot. Right.
27:25 And doing some research on that, I realized that we weren't trained for disappointment. Right.
27:31 So again, I'm not blaming, I'm going through the thought process because nowhere where we could do something different.
27:36 So it's not about blaming or being a victim, but we weren't trained for disappointment. Right.
27:42 And because you weren't trained for disappointment, we're not sure how to accept it.
27:46 So now we understand that we could put things in place. And then you said about not having expectations.
27:52 And then sometimes it translates into, well, anything goes.
27:55 And a lot of us men, I realize that many men say, well, not anything, no, anything.
28:00 And the truth is we actually take anything. And that's not good at all.
28:04 We had discussed it before. It's good to have standards. Right.
28:08 It's good to have a framework because just taking anything, that means if you use a 10 out of 10, if you rate yourself high,
28:14 that means you could take a 2 out of 10, you could take a 3 out of 10. And that's not a standard.
28:18 And then going into marriage, I was sitting here thinking how grateful I am for this.
28:26 Because if I had this before and if we men, men in general, if we had this before,
28:31 we would do a lot of things differently because I was married before. Right.
28:36 So I went through a divorce and now I'm married again. And the many things that I know now,
28:41 if I knew, things would be a lot differently. So even what you're saying about the standards and setting up and having a conversation before,
28:50 I didn't even, I didn't know about that. And the men before me, they didn't really tell you the truth.
28:56 Everything is kind of a laugh and a joke, whatever it is now. But understanding it now.
29:03 And then I even went through understanding that on the second time, that love is not a feeling because I thought it was a feeling.
29:10 And the truth is the feeling came and it went. It came and it went. It came and it went.
29:14 And I remember there's a movie I was watching. I don't know if you'll ever look at the movie, The Prestige. Right.
29:19 Yes. And there's a moment when he would tell his wife, I love you. And then she would say, you mean it today.
29:26 And then some days I know you don't mean it. And I used to relate to that because before some days I felt it and some days I didn't.
29:32 And I always thought, is that right? Is that wrong? But now with knowledge, right, with a little grain in my beard,
29:38 I understand marriage, the institution of marriage. I want to tell you one more thing.
29:43 The institution is not based on emotion. Right. It's based on an intent. Correct.
29:51 Two people come together. Now love will be there. The butterflies will... I don't believe in butterflies either.
29:56 Is it love, Johan, when you say that? Because normally what you're saying here is, I don't always like you, but I love you.
30:02 But if you're actually saying, I don't love you today. I mean, even though it's certainly not unconditional love.
30:09 That's something you rarely have for a partner. It's normally what you have for your children.
30:14 But is it that today I don't love you, but I'm tolerating you then? Is that what you're saying?
30:19 No, what I was saying before is that was my incorrect assumption and perception of love.
30:24 What I understand love to be now is a choice. Every day is a choice to love the person.
30:29 No, let me even go there. Every second is a choice to love the person. So you could say that, that is a choice.
30:36 So you choose to get married. You choose to have a life together. Right. Some days I do like you, but I choose to love you.
30:44 There's a meme where there's an older couple and rain falling and he vexed with her.
30:50 So he vexed with her, but he's still sheltering her and he's taking the rain. So that day is a choice.
30:56 He doesn't like her, you know, but he loves her in the moment. And that now every day is a choice.
31:01 And therefore, if you understand it from that concept, marriage changes, you know, because I'm not tolerating you.
31:07 If I'm tolerating you, because some days you will reach a threshold, you know, and then you wouldn't want no part of this.
31:12 But if you and that person decide on a standard and a goal and a mission and a legacy, because that's what I'm learning now,
31:21 creating legacy, which is not an emotional thing. If you and that person create that, then sometimes when they vex,
31:28 everything about it, that vexation in the moment means nothing to them. All of them things are trivial now.
31:34 So what you're doing there, Johan, is you sort of, we need to take a break.
31:39 What you're doing is you're giving Nile some context and a response to what he was asking.
31:45 Because when you have that moment of you want to come and you want to win the argument, a lot of times, you know, you're right.
31:54 You know, they always say, you know, women are always right, you know, and, you know, a happy wife, happy life.
32:00 But what it comes down to is what is important to you. So being right about something that is subjective, like, OK, so you see it and you and what's left.
32:13 So you see it and you may have hurt her or embarrassed her. And what's really important at that point is that you stand up there and go, ah, you know,
32:23 I think as men, we really are afraid of being emasculated in losing our conversation.
32:32 We think we are being stripped off from manhood, our dignity, anything that makes us a man.
32:38 No, nothing is wrong. And being emasculated is not the end of the world, you know, and you don't need to interpret everything.
32:48 And again, I use the word interpret very loosely here, but you don't need to interpret everything as being emasculated.
32:55 Look at it from a different perspective. Look at it as you can learn something from this experience.
33:00 It's not you being emasculated or she's poking fun at you or using the opportunity to say, yeah, I beat you today. It's not like that.
33:09 It's the higher road. Yeah. And the higher road for at the end, what could happen? You know, you might get something to talk about.
33:17 You know, as a result of that, you know, you realize that who really wins here.
33:21 And it's not about winning, you know. OK, so like I said, you leave somebody hurt. Therefore, who really wins?
33:27 Yeah. And isn't the objective of life really to go and go into an area, a room, an environment or meet someone and leave it better than you found it?
33:36 It's not ultimately what what you should strive to have. So why am I going to want to tear someone down?
33:42 I feel I feel broken inside when I realize I've hurt somebody or embarrassed them when they come back and say, I don't like how you spoke to me there.
33:49 Even though at that point, I'm very resolute, I'm very stern and stoic. I inside I'm like, well, that's how you showed up.
33:57 You showed up in your smallness. And that's not how I want to be. But we need to take a break. So, you know, good, good, good, good comfort.
34:05 Yeah, man. Welcome back to Manhood.
34:19 We've been having such an amazing conversation. I wish this could have been a longer conversation.
34:24 I wish I could have been part of it from the beginning. And the conversation has been centered around Manus from Mars.
34:32 Women, they're from Venus. Right. But let's dial back to the initial topic and why we're here.
34:39 The issue of the power dynamic and that topic, you know, Rob, what's your takeaway here?
34:46 What do you want the takeaway to be?
34:48 Yeah, I just what I would like is is certainly the whole the whole premise, the reason for Manhood is to be better as brothers.
34:58 So in order to be better as brothers, I want us to also take from men from Mars, women from Venus that we can coexist.
35:06 Yes. That's the beauty of it. Yes. You know, as has, you know, Kema, you know, our managing editor here at Guided Media will always would always say, you know, if if if two people always agree, one is unnecessary.
35:20 And it's the same thing if we're always doing the same thing in certain things is great. You know, you have a partner, you have that witness doing the same things and you can enjoy things together.
35:29 But, you know, it's OK for someone to come along for the ride, but not necessarily enjoy the journey.
35:35 And there's also instances where two people can do things on their own so that they can have conversation and that you can always have a dynamic and you can exist.
35:45 You can coexist. And so it's understand that, yes, men may be from Mars and women may be from Venus.
35:52 But guess what? We are perfect. You know, if we start to go down the depths of Kama Sutra and things like that, that's what brings the beauty to it.
36:00 So what I want to get out of it is that it's OK. We need to stop saying, for example, men and just say, hey, that statement.
36:09 Really, really wrong. You know, from the first. Because when a woman says men and what you're what you're doing is you're discrediting and discounting what is in it.
36:21 It's not a choice to specifically say, OK, well, you know, as you said, just, for example, patients, you can work on that.
36:28 You know, if you are particular where you can work on certain things, but there are certain things that make a man a man and there's certain things that make a woman a woman.
36:36 And we need to instead of come down on it, we need to appreciate it, love and embrace it and respect the fact that part of my attraction to the woman in the first place is also some of these things.
36:49 That is part of a character. Part of a character. Attitude.
36:53 Not to defend the man and the statement. Right. However, I believe that a lot of times the complaint that women would have is that, as you just rightfully said,
37:03 the character characteristics that a man has. But I feel that when women don't fall within those characteristics is where I feel the man is coming to play.
37:17 When men don't be providers or be protectors, when they step out in this case, what I'm talking about, when I have the bee in my bonnet about it and men and I fully embrace your point that if it's coming from that point of insecurity,
37:31 low self-esteem, macho bravado, all of these things, that could be men and their shit. And it's something that you have to deal with in your smallness and in your space.
37:42 Okay. I'm talking about men in their, men in their with regards to a man, like man being a man.
37:50 Give an example.
37:51 So a certain, men are egos. Men are logical thinkers. Right. For the most part, women are more emotional. Like we spoke about in a previous episode with the whole agreeability.
38:05 Right. Women are more predisposed to that, because in their dates, they're nurturers. And we can't take that away, you know, from what makes a female a female.
38:15 Right. And which is why you find even in love languages that males, love languages, they want to be touched. They want to feel.
38:23 Touched.
38:24 Touched.
38:25 Physical.
38:26 You know, but, you know, again, we could come down to, you know, the premise of all humans, all mankind is to be loved and to be loved and to know that you are enough. Right?
38:34 I get your point about that. And I agree with you because in the last conversation I was saying I really like the term the battle of the sexes. Now I understand it in fun and in jest. Right. But when we battle, nobody wins.
38:49 There's a connotation to that.
38:50 And it should be a battle.
38:52 No, what he's saying, battle. That connotes, you know, violence, war, that kind of thing. I mean, you can apply different meanings to it, but it doesn't need to be like that. It's unnecessary.
39:04 Iron is sharp on iron.
39:06 Iron is sharp on iron. But just to answer your question with regards to a specific example, in that specificity, I'm speaking about men are hunters. So if you're talking about the whole thing about wanting to provide, wanting to protect, those characteristics are innately within a male. Right.
39:32 And so I'm not talking about men and their shit when they're not doing these things. I'm talking about when they fall into the status quo, the understanding of this is what is a quintessential male person.
39:46 Well, again, so I totally understand that. But as you say, men are hunters. But what if a man is a predator, still hunting? Right. Still in the space of I'm a hunter. But now he is now in a space where he is now being a predator to the weaker sex.
40:06 And then that's men and their shit. So that's what's in the category I'm facing. I'm talking about just being a male, like what in the positive light of what men are from Mars, that brought that character.
40:19 Let me see if I can give a specific example. Because as you noticed, Robert, I'm not giving a specific example. A specific example is most men are problem solvers. Right. So if a woman comes to you with a problem, what you're thinking about already is the solution.
40:31 But many times women don't want that. They want somebody to vent to. So an innate thing of a man being a man, being a problem solver, especially if it's the woman you love.
40:40 If a woman you love coming to, what you're thinking about already, I don't want to see her in distress. I want to solve the problem. But she may not want the problem solved. I've given that as a good example between Mars and Venus.
40:51 We want to solve, they want to vent. Neither one right or wrong because venting is real important. And she needs to vent to get it out, to even be open and susceptible to the solution.
41:02 Correct. Right. So but if a woman berates a man, all you want to do is solve the problem, then that could be a woman berating a man for being a man. Or if I say, all you want to do is vent, that could mean me berating a woman for being a woman.
41:17 So understanding the difference because what I like, not the battle of the sexes, but I call it the dance of the sexes. Right. With that dance, it's a different thing.
41:25 So she comes and she vents, right. And you're dancing with it and then she gets out all the feelings and then you present the problem. I mean the solution.
41:33 We don't have a ring, we got a robot.
41:38 Then we present the solution and then now the dance is complete. And now we both leave happy. So really, and that is the point. Understanding is not better or worse.
41:50 It's really the compliment and that's what it is. A woman is supposed to compliment a man, a man is supposed to compliment a woman. And how we reach in there, I think first the basis, what we talk about is being truthful with yourself.
42:04 Because even understanding as a man, who you are as a man, that the same thing I just said, we men want to problem solve. Understanding that first, real important, so that you could even be able to manage it.
42:15 You know the saying, knowledge is power. So therefore, the more you understand and know about yourself, the more power you have to manage yourself. And pun intended, manage yourself.
42:27 So then you know, in your power, knowing that I like to be logical all the time, but then I could manage it because in this instance, I don't need to be logical yet.
42:37 In this sense, I'm a man, I know I'm more powerful physically. But because I know that, I can manage that in certain situations. I as a man know, let's say there's a power dynamic because I'm a man.
42:50 But now because I understand it and I accept it and I know it as truth, I could be able to manage it better. So therefore, I could be more responsible with everything that constitutes me as a man.
43:01 Not perfect, I ain't saying perfect, but we understand where it comes from. So now with the woman from Venus, we could understand how to do it. And I would say ladies, you all too, you all have to understand what constitutes yourself as being a woman and understand it so then you can manage it.
43:18 So now we can have the dance, right? We could both do the dance as best as we could, not perfect, but as best as we could.
43:30 So we've come to that moment, it's the season finale, and of course this particular conversation needs to end. And I want to take it away to kind of segue and use men and their **** to really put it down to, as men, we know we are on ****.
43:52 Most times. And we need to acknowledge that. And it's not a case of women are doing this and women and triggers and things like that. Men are on ****. And we want to acknowledge that and say, we need to be better as brothers.
44:06 And I want us to give our closing thoughts, some of the takeaways from the other episodes, some of the conversations, just personal experiences as to how do we be better as brothers and what are we individually going to do to not only try to get across to the persons we come in contact with or persons who are listening to this program, but to really going to make an effort within ourselves.
44:35 Because the chain must start within. We can't be expecting what we ourselves are not willing to try to achieve at the very least. And this is where fall comes in. We can fall many times, it's about getting back up. So our takeaway thoughts, guys, better as brothers.
44:54 I think it will all start with what a lot of times happens that men don't hold other fellas accountable when they own their ****. You know, like we would give up bridging our bonks when you own your wife. I find that's out of timing. You understand? I get it. You know, you want to do things out of line.
45:16 But if you make a commitment and you say, yo, this is what I can do and I come to your wedding, I'm not trying to see you own your wife, dog. I'm not trying to see it. You know, don't do it in front of me. So your girl, however, that's the front. Anyway, but point is, point is, is that it's our moments where, you know, as a man, you could really hold your bridging. Yo, hear this thing? That's not cool.
45:43 You know that he's going to take, he's going to toot on it because fellas don't want to hear next man talking to them in a certain way. But I feel that if it is you risk your friendship and you really go out and say, yo, hear this thing? This is what I think you could be doing better. This is what I am disappointed in you in. And I feel that, you know, this is the change that you should make. I think that as a whole, as men, we would be in a better space.
46:11 And piggybacking off of what he said in holding others accountable. Do not be afraid to be held accountable yourself. You understand? Too many times, again, we tend to feel emasculated. We tend to feel threatened or attacked when someone points out our bullshit. When someone calls us out on our bullshit. We go on the fence one time. No, no, no. Make the world of excuses. It's okay to accept that you're wrong. You know, fix it. Right?
46:40 But in the whole discussion, I don't know exactly what would have transparency or all the conversations. But one thing that is helping me and I would suggest that brothers and other men out there consider is have a level of spirituality in your life that plays a huge role in shaping you, your character.
47:06 And that spirituality also helps hold you accountable. You understand? And that's where I'd leave it. You know?
47:17 Okay. I didn't tell my brothers because you all made valid points. And I'll say the point is that each man brings something different to the table. So I would say to all our men, find where your strengths are and stay within that strength. So that when we come together, you are the expert at this, you are the expert at this, I'm the expert at this. So when we are together, we are really better as brothers.
47:43 And what I would take from this is one, the importance of men meeting, the importance of men sitting and having intentional healthy conversations. That's one big thing. Also, taking responsibility for who you are.
48:00 We're not responsible for our childhood, right? But we reach a stage in our lives, men, that we already know what trauma we went through, what we mother didn't do, what we father didn't do, what happened to us. And I'm not discrediting trauma itself because some of us had a rough childhood, right? And I had a rougher childhood than others.
48:20 But you reach a point where you need to take responsibility for yourself as a man. Let's say forget you don't have a wife yet, you don't have a child yet, etc. Take responsibility for yourself as a man and do as much as you could to be better. And if you can't do it alone, which most times we can't do it alone, you know.
48:40 Lean, lean on somebody. Lean on your brother, lean on your friend, go to a professional, read some books, all of the above, actually. Do as much as you can to add the spirituality to it. Be grounded in something. Do as many things as you can to be better.
49:03 A lot to ponder there. This is the season finale. Again, the conversation doesn't end, the episode, the season may end, but that conversation still continues. And we'll continue doing that research and having these conversations. Keep continuing to reach out to us, comment, send us your thoughts. To bring it into context, you know, men are from Mars, women are from Venus. It's about time the planets aligned. That's what's important.
49:29 And in that alignment, as we're better as brothers, what I would want is for myself and you know, is show me your friends, and I'll tell you who you are. So if my friends, I can't tell my friends what I really think, and that I'm not for that, and I'm against certain behaviors, or I'm for that, or for certain behaviors in certain ways, then you know what, you need to part company. I love you, but I love you from a distance.
49:58 You know, so that's, you know, there've been many important nuggets along the way. It's up on YouTube. Check it out on CNC3. And you can see the playlist there for manhood. A lot of real good topics that we've discussed, you know, man, mansplaining, toxic masculinity, masculine energy. And what you might find is initially some of these topics are very feminine topics, as in topics that connect to men versus men and women, men versus women. But it's not about men versus women.
50:27 It's more female oriented.
50:29 What we're trying to achieve here is a conversation. And it's how we all show up. But men don't show up. Men are on their own. And we need to address that. We need to be better as brothers. And that's the only way that we're going to truly have...
50:46 Break cycles.
50:47 Need to break cycles. If you continue to do the same things, and if something's not working for you, be it in a relationship or in a brotherhood, remove yourself. That hood might be the hood for you. And it's where you want to go. So, Yohansi, always a pleasure. Jess, thanks for joining us.
51:05 Thanks for having me.
51:06 Smile and touch on what Yohansi, what Jesse said. Spirituality is really important. So always remember, God is the boss and everybody else is pretending.
51:15 So, see you next week.
51:17 [Music]
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