Christie on Trump’s free speech defense- ‘There are always limits to free speech’
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00:00 What do you make of DeSantis' response there?
00:02 Well, like, look, I still don't think he answered it.
00:04 Right? He lost. Well, we all know that,
00:07 as a matter of law, he lost the election.
00:10 Right? The deeper question,
00:12 and the one that I think he's dodging,
00:14 is, "Do you believe it was a full and fair election?"
00:18 That's really the question.
00:20 And with respect to the interviewer,
00:21 I think she let him off the hook.
00:23 I mean, in the end, did he lose? Of course he lost.
00:27 And I believe he lost because he lost in a full and fair election.
00:31 There's a lot of Republicans,
00:32 I think the majority of Republicans in the country,
00:34 do not believe it was a free and fair election.
00:35 Yeah, well, I think that shows you the impact
00:37 that Donald Trump has had on a lot of people.
00:40 And that impact started on election night, Anderson.
00:42 Because when he came out there that night,
00:44 at 2.30 in the morning, and said,
00:45 "You know, we won the election. It's being stolen."
00:49 People assume that the President of the United States
00:52 knows things they don't know.
00:53 And if you're also inclined to be supportive,
00:57 you want to give him the benefit of the doubt.
00:58 And then that stuff has just seeped in.
01:00 He has said any number of times, to me both personally,
01:03 and I've even heard him say to others,
01:05 "You say something enough times, it becomes true."
01:07 And that is clearly his philosophy
01:09 on everything he's doing right now to the American people.
01:12 And I know in your book, you wrote about that moment
01:14 as being the key moment for you, that you were like,
01:16 -"All right, enough." -Yep.
01:17 We see how the former President behaving,
01:19 the rhetoric against the judge, the prosecution, even Mike Pence.
01:21 Is this just free speech or more?
01:25 Look, I mean, I think the judge will decide that ultimately.
01:28 To me, though, there are always limits on free speech.
01:30 I mean, this is the classic,
01:32 "You can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater."
01:34 I mean, there are limits on free speech.
01:35 And by the way, when you're a criminal defendant out on bail,
01:39 and let's focus on that,
01:41 he is now out on bail in three different jurisdictions.
01:45 New York, Florida, and Washington, D.C.
01:48 We have a front-runner in this race
01:50 who's out on bail in three jurisdictions.
01:51 -It's pretty incredible. -And when you--
01:53 What happens, though, when you're let out
01:55 is that there are restrictions placed on you
01:58 for you to stay out.
02:00 And one of the restrictions that was placed on him
02:02 was no contact or intimidation of potential witnesses.
02:06 He's saying, "If you go after me, I'm coming after you."
02:09 His lawyers are now saying that post was not--
02:11 that was generalized political speech, not directed at anyone.
02:14 Well, of course that's what they're gonna say.
02:16 Because what they really feel like saying is,
02:18 "Oh, my God, I can't believe he did that again."
02:20 You think that's what they said privately to each other?
02:22 Their lawyers are like, wanna jump out the window
02:24 having to defend some of this stuff.
02:26 And here's the bottom line on it, is that...
02:28 let's put aside if it's legal or illegal for a second.
02:33 Is this the kind of conduct that the Republican Party
02:38 or the American people want
02:39 from someone who's gonna be president?
02:41 To send out tweets or posts, whatever they are,
02:45 that he sends on True Social,
02:47 saying this kind of stuff,
02:50 threatening people, trying to intimidate Mike Pence,
02:54 trying to intimidate the judge.
02:55 You know, Mike Pence, as we know,
02:58 he just falls in the line of Rex Tillerson
03:00 and Jeff Sessions and Bill Barr
03:03 and all these folks who were the best people ever
03:07 -when he hired them. -Right.
03:08 And then as soon as they say something--
03:10 And extraordinarily loyal, also, to him.
03:12 Yes. And as soon as they disagree with him,
03:14 then they become the worst people on Earth.
03:16 The things he wrote about Mike Pence--
03:18 Look, I'm running against Mike,
03:19 I wanna make sure I beat him
03:20 and I become the Republican nominee.
03:22 But he doesn't deserve that.
03:23 He doesn't deserve those comments.
03:25 The former president's lawyer, new lawyer, John Loro,
03:27 is defending the president's actions, obviously.
03:29 He says, "A technical violation of the Constitution
03:32 is not a violation of criminal law."
03:35 Does that make sense to you?
03:36 Um, you know, no.
03:38 And he admits that the president violated his oath.
03:44 Think about that.
03:47 The president of the United States promises
03:49 to preserve, protect, and defend
03:51 the Constitution of the United States.
03:53 His own lawyer has admitted he violated the Constitution.
03:57 I wanna play something he told Laura Ingraham on Fox last week.
04:00 What President Trump said is, "Let's go with option D.
04:04 Let's just halt, let's just pause the voting
04:08 and allow the state legislatures to take one last look
04:11 and make a determination as to whether or not
04:14 -the elections were handled fairly." -Yeah.
04:16 That's constitutional law.
04:18 That's not an issue of criminal activity.
04:20 Did he admit the president committed a crime?
04:24 'Cause the president's charged with corrupt obstruction
04:28 -of an official proceeding. -Right.
04:29 He did. And let me say what else he did.
04:32 You know, he's opposite of what the evidence is.
04:36 Mike Pence has been very clear about this.
04:39 He said the president didn't ask him to halt or pause.
04:44 He said that he was asked by the president to reverse it.
04:48 To reverse the result.
04:51 And that's what Mike Pence is gonna testify to.
04:53 I suspect that's what he's already testified to
04:55 in the grand jury. We don't know for sure
04:57 'cause those matters are secret,
04:59 but I suspect he hasn't said anything different
05:00 -to the grand jury. -Do you think Mark Meadows
05:01 is gonna testify?
05:02 Oh, I've said all along I think Mark Meadows
05:04 is already a cooperating witness.
05:06 He has all the looks of a cooperating witness
05:08 running into coffee shops away from the press.
05:10 And he's disappeared in the indictment.
05:11 I mean, he's referenced once or twice, but...
05:13 So, when you didn't see Mark Meadows
05:14 as an unindicted co-conspirator,
05:16 and you see absolutely no mention of him at all?
05:19 How devastating do you think his testimony could be?
05:21 It could be the worst testimony for him
05:23 outside of the family members.
05:25 Because Mark Meadows was with him constantly
05:28 -during that period of time. -And involved in all of it.
05:29 In Georgia, in the electors.
05:31 He was a very, um, involved chief of staff,
05:35 in my experience.
05:36 He was-- He made sure he was in every meeting
05:39 and every conversation.
05:40 So-- And we remember, there are hundreds of text messages
05:45 that he turned over to the special counsel that he kept.
05:48 And many more that he kept.
05:49 The former president's saying he's gonna ask the judge
05:51 to be reassigned or recused,
05:53 says he can't get a fair trial in D.C.
05:55 Is any of that legitimate?
05:56 They're not gonna move the trial.
05:58 I mean, there's no-- There's nothing he's shown.
06:00 He's saying because she was appointed by Obama,
06:02 um, and she's been tough on January 6th defendants,
06:06 that that makes her, you know, biased.
06:08 He's gonna have to show something better than that
06:10 to get a judge disqualified.
06:12 And to get the venue moved--
06:13 I mean, what the argument is,
06:15 "I don't like the jury pool,
06:16 so I'm gonna get the venue moved."
06:18 I-- That's not a basis for moving venue.
06:20 Do you think the public has a right to see--
06:22 I mean, do you think there should be cameras
06:24 in the court in this?
06:25 I've always thought there should be cameras
06:26 in federal court.
06:27 Um, I've thought that if we have them in state court,
06:31 we should have them in federal court.
06:32 I understand that there are times
06:33 when people are performing for the cameras.
06:34 But I think for the American people to see--
06:37 'Cause I think, Anderson, the justice system
06:39 works extraordinarily well in this country, in the main.
06:42 And I think the more we take the veil away from it
06:44 on the federal side as well,
06:45 and people get to see the rights of defendants being acquitted,
06:48 juries really considering all the evidence,
06:51 deliberating, and then ultimately,
06:54 a verdict being rendered,
06:55 I think that'd give more confidence in the system,
06:57 not less.
06:58 In terms of, uh, you know, I don't know if you saw it,
07:01 a former, uh, Attorney General Bill Barr
07:03 told Kalen Collins last week that the DOJ case is legitimate,
07:06 the former president, quote,
07:07 "should not be anywhere near the Oval Office."
07:10 The same interview, he didn't rule out voting
07:12 for the former president
07:13 in a one-on-one matchup against Biden.
07:15 What do you-- Does that make sense to you?
07:18 -Well, I-- -You understand he's a loyal Republican.
07:21 Not entirely.
07:22 And I think that this is something
07:24 that people have been avoiding.
07:25 Um, as you know, a lot of people,
07:27 some were in the race, some were outside the race,
07:29 in talking about this.
07:30 And I think part of it is because
07:31 there's real serious discontent with President Biden,
07:34 -Sure. -concerns about his age and his health
07:36 and all the rest of that.
07:37 So I think that's why some people do it that way.
07:39 But I do think that Bill Barr, to be fair to him,
07:42 has been as clear as any former member of his cabinet
07:47 on the things that he's said about the president,
07:49 how the president conducted himself,
07:51 -and how he doesn't believe-- -His critique has been devastating.
07:53 Yes. And-and so I think--
07:54 I think, look, if-if Bill wants to take that position,
07:57 I think we need to give him a pass on that one,
07:59 because in the end, he has put forward substantive facts
08:03 as to why Donald Trump shouldn't be president again.
08:05 This new CBS News/YouGov poll,
08:08 91% of MAGA Republicans and 83% of non-MAGA Republicans
08:12 think the indictment's investigation against Trump
08:14 are trying to stop his campaign.
08:16 The argument you've been making consistently,
08:19 and especially now, I mean, are you worried that it's not--
08:22 I mean, how do you make traction with those voters?
08:24 Because the-the argument to those voters is
08:27 these are two separate questions.
08:28 People are discontent with what they've seen
08:31 Anderson at a DOJ.
08:32 Um, and-and I can't say I blame them
08:35 in terms of what happened with Hillary Clinton,
08:37 or rather, did not happen,
08:38 and what they see now with the Hunter Biden plea being rejected,
08:41 seemingly because the judge thought
08:43 it was an unfair plea deal that favored Hunter Biden.
08:47 If you're a Republican, you say to yourself,
08:49 "Well, this looks-- this looks fishy."
08:52 So, I think that's where those numbers come from.
08:54 The separate question is, regardless of that,
08:57 regardless if you think that his prosecutions
09:00 are politically motivated or not,
09:02 there's very little argument about the conduct,
09:04 the underlying conduct that led to it.
09:07 Inviting people to-to Washington on January 6th,
09:10 saying it's gonna be wild.
09:12 Telling them the election is stolen when it isn't.
09:15 Urging them to march up to Capitol Hill and saying,
09:18 you know, "I'll go up there with you."
09:19 I knew, listening to that, he would never go.
09:21 If Donald Trump's worried about breaking a fingernail,
09:23 he doesn't go, let alone be in danger
09:25 with people who are being violent.
09:27 Then he goes back to the White House
09:28 and watches people commit violent acts
09:31 at the U.S. Capitol and does nothing.
09:33 If you're not morally responsible, then,
09:36 for what happened on January 6th,
09:37 having done that, forget legally.
09:39 Is that the kind of person you want
09:41 behind the desk in the Oval Office?
09:43 Whether you believe he should go to jail or not,
09:45 whether you believe he's a criminal or not,
09:47 is that the bar now for being president of the United States?
09:50 Well, not only-- he may have committed a crime,
09:52 but we think it might be politically motivated.
09:54 That's why I say put that stuff aside
09:56 and look at the conduct.
09:58 Look at the conduct on that case,
09:59 look at the conduct in the documents case,
10:01 where he was asked for 18 months quietly, privately,
10:04 to give them back. He didn't.
10:05 And look at the conduct even in the Stormy Daniels case,
10:08 which I believe is a ridiculous prosecution to have been brought.
10:11 But do we really want a president
10:13 who's paying off a porn star during an election
10:15 to hide the fact that he had an affair with her
10:17 while he was married?
10:18 Like, that shouldn't probably be the standard
10:21 for what we want behind the Oval Office.
10:23 So that's my argument, and that's why those numbers--
10:24 don't worry nearly as much as you expect they might.