Manhood Episode 10
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00:00:00 Manhood, brought to you by Jameson, natural sources since 1922 and Racetrack.
00:00:07 [MUSIC]
00:00:13 Manhood, another big one.
00:00:15 Well, it's always a big one because of the message that we send,
00:00:19 what we attempt to send.
00:00:20 And I always want to start off reminding our listeners, the viewers,
00:00:25 and we're really grateful and thankful that you take the time to be part
00:00:29 of this show and what we're trying to do.
00:00:31 And for you to remember that we are not speaking on behalf of all men.
00:00:35 We are a few men talking to all men.
00:00:38 The topics are always apt, very important, not just to our lives,
00:00:43 to your lives, whether you know it or not.
00:00:46 And today's topic is no different.
00:00:49 Today we're talking about fatherhood.
00:00:52 We all have fathers, or had fathers.
00:00:55 And I'm always delighted to have to my right, Johansi Ayodike,
00:01:00 behavior change consultant, good friend, Wyatt Gallery, life coach,
00:01:06 artist, photographer, you name it.
00:01:10 He's done it.
00:01:11 And another good friend, Jason Williams, affectionately known as JW,
00:01:16 media personality, and unfortunately an Arsenal supporter.
00:01:21 But I wouldn't hold that against him.
00:01:24 Wow, that's--
00:01:26 Started from the top.
00:01:27 Started from the top.
00:01:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:29 So guys, I always like to start off with a definition.
00:01:35 It's not always the definition by the end of the show,
00:01:38 but it's a definition to get us started.
00:01:40 So if you'll allow me just to bring up--
00:01:44 got to get glasses here.
00:01:47 Fatherhood is a state or experience of being a father.
00:01:51 It refers to the role and responsibilities
00:01:53 of a man in relation to his children, typically
00:01:56 as a parent who contributes to their physical, emotional,
00:02:00 and social well-being.
00:02:02 Fatherhood involves providing love, support, guidance, and protection
00:02:07 to one's children, as well as being actively involved in their upbringing
00:02:11 and development.
00:02:12 And of course, it goes on to a lot more.
00:02:14 Charge EPT.
00:02:16 You just put it in there, and it just comes up
00:02:17 with all sorts of good information.
00:02:20 It makes you sound really knowledgeable and skilled
00:02:22 in this thing.
00:02:23 So that's the AI definition.
00:02:24 That's the AI definition.
00:02:26 So again, it's a definition for us to start off,
00:02:28 start that dialogue.
00:02:30 One of the things I always grew up hearing
00:02:32 was anyone can be a father, but it takes a lot to be a dad.
00:02:38 It's common knowledge.
00:02:40 I lost my dad recently.
00:02:42 And a lot came about as a result of that, a lot of revelation.
00:02:49 You know, things that I'd taken for granted all along.
00:02:53 And that now that I look at it, my purpose almost
00:02:57 has changed in somewhat, not just to my son
00:03:00 and what I want to be for him, but also what
00:03:03 I try to now encourage or show to friends or listeners
00:03:07 to other people as to why they should do certain things
00:03:11 with their dad, regardless of where you're at,
00:03:13 with regards to that relationship.
00:03:15 So today's topic was supposed to be almost a change
00:03:18 or a part two to what we were speaking about with regards
00:03:24 to relationships and whether men should have girlfriends,
00:03:29 female friends, and whether females could have guy friends.
00:03:32 And we had a really energetic and powerful discussion on that.
00:03:36 But I thought it was really apt to bring this one to--
00:03:40 the name of the show is Manhood, but what about fatherhood?
00:03:45 And it was something that I felt we have a responsibility
00:03:48 to the next generation, to this generation,
00:03:53 but also the next generation, meaning our fathers,
00:03:57 persons older than us, persons our age,
00:03:59 persons younger than us.
00:04:01 But really and truly, it's what we can control
00:04:04 is, to a certain extent, is our influence
00:04:07 on the next generation.
00:04:08 So gents, I've been kind of--
00:04:12 The usual.
00:04:13 The usual.
00:04:14 The usual.
00:04:14 So what's your take on fatherhood?
00:04:19 Firstly, I would say I'm happy that you decided to do this,
00:04:22 seeing that this month is Father's Day.
00:04:26 And I learned recently that this month is actually
00:04:29 World Male Health Month.
00:04:32 And that's important because I didn't even know that.
00:04:36 And usually, we hear all the other things.
00:04:39 And I, as a man, don't even know when I am being celebrated
00:04:43 when certain things are being--
00:04:46 certain awarenesses are being brought up.
00:04:49 So I am also going to take an active now actually putting
00:04:52 these things down.
00:04:53 So even if I don't celebrate it in its fullness,
00:04:55 at least I could bring awareness to that.
00:04:57 So I thank you for that.
00:04:59 And that's one.
00:05:00 And then two--
00:05:01 Not to mention you also dated the program.
00:05:03 So now they know exactly when this was filmed.
00:05:05 But that's OK.
00:05:06 That's OK.
00:05:07 Cut that part, right?
00:05:10 When you're saying a father, I realize that in my even
00:05:14 thinking about what a father is, what came to me immediately
00:05:18 was what I missed from my father.
00:05:21 So at least in my experience, I didn't
00:05:23 think of all the things that I got versus the things
00:05:25 I didn't get.
00:05:26 And I think that when I ask others, many of them,
00:05:30 I'd say more than 50%, their answer also
00:05:33 was what they didn't get versus what they had.
00:05:36 So I would say for now, my definition of a father
00:05:39 is somebody who is simply there consistently,
00:05:44 a male figure in my life or in someone's life
00:05:47 that is there consistently.
00:05:49 I'll start with that.
00:05:50 Anybody jump in?
00:05:54 Yeah, I mean, I thought that definition was really good,
00:05:57 actually.
00:05:58 And the first word that comes to mind for me is a guide.
00:06:02 And to guide in different ways could be spiritual.
00:06:08 It could be right and wrong.
00:06:12 And honestly, I'm really curious what you just
00:06:18 got from your dad passing away, like what the change in purpose
00:06:22 and the revelations.
00:06:25 Because that's something I think about a lot with my dad
00:06:28 being in his 80s.
00:06:30 So I mean, I want to hear from Jay.
00:06:32 But Jay, if you'll permit me, just as he asked.
00:06:34 Of course, go right ahead.
00:06:37 What was really, really profound for me
00:06:39 was that over my dad's illness--
00:06:42 I mean, my dad was always a very powerful figure for me.
00:06:46 And hearing a lot of things after his death--
00:06:49 I went through two emotions, one of pride
00:06:52 and one of being pissed off.
00:06:55 Because one, I was pissed off that he never shared that
00:06:57 with me because he was a man, a very humble person in terms
00:07:01 of whenever he was a boastful person.
00:07:03 And I was also pissed off at people who were telling me.
00:07:05 I was like, well, one, where were you?
00:07:07 All this time.
00:07:08 And two, why am I now finding this information out?
00:07:13 Like I found out, for example, Prince Charles, now King
00:07:17 Charles, when he went to the Royal Air Force,
00:07:19 my dad was his personal parachute instructor.
00:07:23 Wow.
00:07:23 That's powerful.
00:07:25 I'm like, oh, he never shared that with me.
00:07:29 And although he shared a lot of stuff--
00:07:31 I find dads can be so humble like that.
00:07:33 Like they don't share--
00:07:35 what's that about?
00:07:37 Is that like a taught thing of manhood?
00:07:39 Like you shouldn't--
00:07:39 Is that really humility?
00:07:41 Because as he said, I'm thinking about things.
00:07:43 I even recently found out about my father.
00:07:45 And I was like, why didn't you just say something?
00:07:48 You don't have to go around saying that you're boasting.
00:07:50 But you say, hey, you know, well, I did XYZ.
00:07:52 Yeah, exactly.
00:07:54 We should be able to share without it being boasting.
00:07:56 I don't know.
00:07:58 I mean, as we go along on this particular episode
00:08:01 or this conversation, as I like to say,
00:08:03 there are a lot of revelations that not just with my dad,
00:08:07 but in terms of what the perception of a man--
00:08:10 like I would listen to things about,
00:08:12 as we can talk later on, about men and crying,
00:08:15 or men and children, how children fear their fathers.
00:08:19 And there were many--
00:08:21 there were two sides to it that I found really profound for me.
00:08:26 But just to say that the biggest revelation for me with dad
00:08:29 was when he first was diagnosed about eight or nine years ago
00:08:33 that pushed me to do things like a marathon to raise money
00:08:36 for him or join the Trinidad and Tobago Cancer Society.
00:08:40 He didn't reveal that he was sick.
00:08:42 He didn't want anyone to know.
00:08:44 But once he started to experience all the procedures,
00:08:49 it became to the point that he now became very dependent
00:08:52 on me or the family.
00:08:54 He became immediately almost the patriarch.
00:08:56 But without knowing it, you would just
00:08:58 go on every day just doing what it took.
00:09:00 They say what you focus on is what you see.
00:09:02 And what I did is I focused on making sure he survived.
00:09:08 But in making sure he survived, I
00:09:09 lost sight that that's my dad.
00:09:11 It was just became a mission.
00:09:14 And so when he went to hospital this time around,
00:09:18 I thought it was just another--
00:09:21 somebody else to call, somebody in the ministry,
00:09:24 somebody somewhere else to assist in his progression.
00:09:28 And when I got the call to head up to the hospital,
00:09:33 I was like, what?
00:09:34 What's going on here?
00:09:35 And it was in the final 10 minutes,
00:09:39 I went from always being that resolute person
00:09:45 to protect him or help him survive
00:09:47 to immediately feeling like a child being abandoned.
00:09:51 And that was so profound for me.
00:09:53 Like, wait, dad--
00:09:54 Even as a big man, you felt that way?
00:09:55 Even as a big man and the person that was looking after him,
00:09:58 I felt that, hey, wait, you're leaving me here?
00:10:01 What's that one?
00:10:02 That type of thing.
00:10:03 While saying the words, it's OK.
00:10:05 You can go, that type of thing.
00:10:07 And the responsibility at that point
00:10:10 of realizing that even though I wasn't aware of it at the time,
00:10:13 I was always trying to make him proud.
00:10:15 It would always be something I'd call him for,
00:10:17 but not recognizing those things.
00:10:21 So in realizing now that, hey, wait,
00:10:24 now I now have to do things.
00:10:25 My son is probably going to do the same for me,
00:10:27 and I have to do things for my child.
00:10:31 The takeaway, as you asked, Wyatt,
00:10:33 was simply that you always think you have the time,
00:10:39 more than anything else.
00:10:40 Even the amount of people that showed up at the funeral,
00:10:43 you're like, why aren't we there for the living?
00:10:46 Why do we show--
00:10:47 I had family flying in from all over the world.
00:10:49 And I'm like, you haven't been to Trinidad in 20, 30 years.
00:10:52 But the man has now passed, and we're all showing up,
00:10:55 and we kumbaya, and all the rest of it.
00:10:57 But why aren't we there for the living?
00:10:59 And so I'd said to myself that on that weekend,
00:11:04 I was going to go up and ask him,
00:11:07 do you have anything that you want to share with me?
00:11:09 Get off your chest type thing.
00:11:11 And I wanted to tell him as much as I'd shown up,
00:11:14 how I felt I showed up, I wanted to apologize and to say,
00:11:18 you know what, I see you, dad.
00:11:20 And that day never came.
00:11:23 So I tried to show and try to speak to all young men, women,
00:11:28 regardless of what your relationship is
00:11:31 with your father, you don't want to live with that guilt.
00:11:36 You want to be able to tell them,
00:11:38 give them that opportunity.
00:11:40 Because when they're dead, they're dead.
00:11:41 You still live it.
00:11:43 And you now have to be the one that is now saying,
00:11:46 I wish I told him something.
00:11:48 Well, the interesting thing is, you know,
00:11:49 that's something I--
00:11:51 nobody really gave me a template or a guideline,
00:11:54 but it's something I would have done with my dad,
00:11:56 who also passed on.
00:11:57 He passed on in 2021.
00:11:59 And when he passed on, I felt, of course,
00:12:02 you know, getting that news was a phone call.
00:12:05 So for about five seconds, I felt a moment of sadness.
00:12:08 And after that, I was very calm.
00:12:10 And my dad was absent in my life.
00:12:12 However, when I came of age in my 20s,
00:12:16 started to work in media, a matter of fact,
00:12:19 I took a loan, I remember.
00:12:20 I didn't even save up.
00:12:21 I just got a VAPSA there, and I took a loan,
00:12:23 and I went up to New York to see him.
00:12:25 I would have seen him a couple of times growing up, too.
00:12:27 But I could probably count on one hand.
00:12:30 And I went up, and I made peace.
00:12:31 And I've made numerous trips to the US.
00:12:35 And every single time, it was always
00:12:36 an olive branch of forgiveness.
00:12:39 I actually say those words.
00:12:40 You know, the time done pass.
00:12:43 This is now.
00:12:44 Let's get to know each other.
00:12:46 I want to get to know you.
00:12:47 I hear so much great things about you, you know.
00:12:49 Because the funny thing is, my personality and my spirit
00:12:53 is more or less the exact same thing, even though I
00:12:55 spent no time with the man.
00:12:57 I've just been able to turn it into a career.
00:12:59 But he was life of the party, a lyricist, a man, you know,
00:13:04 full of talks, chat, love sports,
00:13:05 every single thing that I have interest in football,
00:13:08 he love football.
00:13:08 Track and field, he love track and field.
00:13:10 Down to steam fish, I would ask him certain questions.
00:13:14 I like steam fish.
00:13:15 My father is a steam fish man.
00:13:16 Bears, he's a bears man.
00:13:17 So I say, but I'm a real, literally--
00:13:21 what do they say?
00:13:22 I'm a--
00:13:22 A clone?
00:13:23 Carbon copy.
00:13:23 Carbon copy.
00:13:24 Even though he didn't play a role.
00:13:26 But I get to realize now as I got older,
00:13:29 that probably he not being there was also probably
00:13:35 by design, by the creator, a saving grace.
00:13:37 Because he was also, as much as the personality
00:13:40 and the persona was a big one, he was also probably a hard man
00:13:46 too, I get to realize.
00:13:47 And probably me not being around and seeing
00:13:50 and experiencing that hardness is what kind of shaped me
00:13:53 into who I am.
00:13:54 So I think fatherhood for me is two things.
00:13:56 It's a template.
00:13:59 It's understanding history.
00:14:02 And I was able to get that through my interaction
00:14:04 with him.
00:14:05 It was always cordial.
00:14:07 I mean, I used to really just wish
00:14:09 he would express himself a little bit more.
00:14:11 But I knew I was at peace.
00:14:13 I was at total peace because I knew I would have
00:14:15 tried multiple times over.
00:14:17 And I think fatherhood for me is, at this point in time,
00:14:20 as a father, redemption.
00:14:22 Because ultimately, my son, I treat with him
00:14:25 the way I wish my father would have treated with me.
00:14:28 So in a way, I am fathering my son and also myself.
00:14:31 I literally am a father too.
00:14:34 It's like I assume the role of what I thought
00:14:37 my dad should have been.
00:14:39 And I literally just--
00:14:40 What you needed.
00:14:41 Yeah.
00:14:42 You know, yeah.
00:14:42 So it's like it's a healing.
00:14:44 And I think it came full circle when I took my son
00:14:47 to see him in 2018.
00:14:48 So as I was making a joke with my son,
00:14:50 and I say, meet your grandfather twice.
00:14:52 It was the first and last.
00:14:53 That was literally the only time my son
00:14:55 would have met my father.
00:14:57 And I thought to me when all of us were together,
00:15:00 and we took that picture on the balcony in Florida
00:15:02 when I left the-- it was on Monday.
00:15:04 I knew that was the full circle.
00:15:05 I knew that was it.
00:15:07 I knew it.
00:15:07 I knew it.
00:15:08 I knew that was it.
00:15:09 And so it literally was it.
00:15:12 And one of the things that you said there, Jay,
00:15:14 you know, we speak about tough love.
00:15:18 And maybe-- one of the things that even as a dad myself,
00:15:23 and maybe you experienced it, where you do try to make up
00:15:27 or you do try to father your children,
00:15:31 how maybe so many things that you felt that you were missing.
00:15:33 But again, I come back to that term, what you focus on
00:15:37 is what you see.
00:15:38 And like we are now, we're doing the best we can.
00:15:44 I am always--
00:15:45 But you never know that about your parents.
00:15:47 That's why people have the resentment
00:15:48 and need to let go and have the peace you're talking about.
00:15:50 Because you never think-- you always expect so much.
00:15:53 Why didn't they do this?
00:15:54 Why didn't they do that?
00:15:54 How come he wasn't there?
00:15:56 And you don't know what your parents are going through.
00:15:59 You're outside of them trying to be there for you.
00:16:02 And I think it's huge.
00:16:03 Like you have to let it go.
00:16:06 You have to forgive.
00:16:08 And what I'm hearing from you guys
00:16:10 too is that you're being conscious about how
00:16:14 you're showing up as a father.
00:16:15 You're choosing what type of father you want to be.
00:16:19 And I think that's really important to be a conscious
00:16:22 parent versus just going on an autopilot.
00:16:25 And I'd love to hear what you have to say about how
00:16:27 the brain works and everything, our behaviors.
00:16:29 But you could just autopilot because that's
00:16:31 what you grew up with, right?
00:16:33 Your reactions and how you react to what the kids are doing.
00:16:37 Because I've always heard there are fathers
00:16:39 who are actually present but absent at the same time.
00:16:41 They're supposed to be there.
00:16:42 But they're just emotional.
00:16:44 And again, up in their head, thinking about work,
00:16:47 whatever.
00:16:47 But we will hear from you, Anse.
00:16:49 I think we all want to hear about the science of that
00:16:52 and how the brain works.
00:16:55 But we have to take that pause.
00:16:56 So again, guys, I wish you could hear somebody
00:16:59 behind the scenes.
00:17:01 Really important discussion.
00:17:03 We're talking about fatherhood on manhood.
00:17:04 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:17:07 So thanks for staying with us, having some really good dialogue
00:17:20 here, Johansse Wyatt, JW.
00:17:23 Before we went to the break, we spoke--
00:17:25 this is now fatherhood on manhood.
00:17:27 We were speaking about being a conscious dad.
00:17:29 Some dads are there.
00:17:31 You're there, but you're not there.
00:17:33 And Wyatt, you also are asking about the science behind that,
00:17:37 being a present dad and the tone of that.
00:17:44 Johansse, do your thing.
00:17:47 All right, so men--
00:17:49 first, I want to say that manhood in itself
00:17:52 is a powerful thing.
00:17:53 When men sit down and we gather and we speak in positive things.
00:17:56 But for me today, I think this is
00:17:58 one of the most powerful conversations we've had.
00:18:01 Because all of us have dads, whether they see us or not,
00:18:05 but we had fathers.
00:18:07 And they had serious impacts on us, whether or not
00:18:10 they were present or not.
00:18:11 I've heard a quote, you know, your dad--
00:18:13 as a man, as a male, your dad influences your life,
00:18:17 whether he is there or not.
00:18:18 And hearing this, and even for myself, rings true.
00:18:23 We're talking about the science behind it,
00:18:26 whether a father being present can be present physically
00:18:29 and not emotionally.
00:18:31 Because I have realized what makes a father, what
00:18:36 makes a man have so many dynamics,
00:18:40 is there's no exact science behind it.
00:18:43 Because most times, what we end up doing
00:18:46 is doing the thing that we missed, most times,
00:18:50 and/or doing the only thing that we saw.
00:18:54 And in this day and age, because there's so much information,
00:18:58 and whether sometimes we're seeking it or not,
00:19:01 we get the information, we now could start to troubleshoot
00:19:05 on how to be a better father, or even
00:19:08 is that working as a father.
00:19:09 Even if it's not you you're looking at,
00:19:11 there's so much information on it.
00:19:13 So I would say it's a plus, there's so much information
00:19:16 now, because now we could troubleshoot and kind of decide
00:19:18 what we're taking, what we're not taking, et cetera.
00:19:20 And then, of course, there's facilities like this.
00:19:23 Because I'm sure back in the day before this,
00:19:26 men did sit and have conversations,
00:19:28 but only a few would be privy to it.
00:19:31 So now that we're troubleshooting,
00:19:33 again, nobody know more than anybody.
00:19:35 We pull in and we consolidate in what we know,
00:19:38 then more people are able to hear it.
00:19:41 So true, you said, because it goes back to, again,
00:19:43 my dad not being there, but yet still I'm so much like him.
00:19:47 And I get to realize that through going out,
00:19:49 meeting him, interacting, and recognizing that,
00:19:51 boy, this is me.
00:19:53 And I think there was a power, too, in him not being there.
00:19:56 I think it actually made me man up pretty early.
00:20:01 I went out, I was in the work scene from the tender age
00:20:03 of probably 14, wanting to help out at home.
00:20:06 Thank goodness, too, I think what was my saving grace
00:20:09 was a strong and very present mom.
00:20:13 And she still is very much present
00:20:15 and a real motivating factor for me.
00:20:18 So her, and of course, funnily enough, her brothers,
00:20:23 my uncle stepped up.
00:20:24 I had uncles who stepped up.
00:20:25 I had his, my father's friends would have stepped up
00:20:28 to my godfather.
00:20:29 Some of his personal friends were like, you know what?
00:20:32 We have to kind of rally around this young man.
00:20:34 So there were factors and had a community that helped me out.
00:20:40 But ultimately, in terms of my dad, no regrets, really.
00:20:45 I looked at his particular example,
00:20:48 and I told myself, as I would have mentioned
00:20:51 in the first segment, it's a chance for me
00:20:53 now to kind of go at it at a different angle.
00:20:57 So because I had no template, how
00:20:58 I approach fatherhood with my son
00:21:00 is more of a big brother, little brother kind of role,
00:21:03 where I'm very open, very transparent, very authentic.
00:21:06 That's huge.
00:21:08 It is.
00:21:08 I don't use profanities, though.
00:21:10 We ain't get to that point yet.
00:21:11 He's going to be 17 in a couple of days.
00:21:14 But we speak-- sometimes the conversations,
00:21:17 he has a bit risky.
00:21:17 And especially when he's coming into his teens,
00:21:20 he would bring certain questions to me.
00:21:21 It was like, wait, make me cringe a little bit,
00:21:23 but I was real.
00:21:24 But without going too real just yet.
00:21:27 But we could sit down, and we could rap,
00:21:29 and we actually operate like brothers.
00:21:31 That's literally how we operate.
00:21:32 It's not father and son.
00:21:33 It's more big brother, little brother.
00:21:35 That vulnerability is so powerful.
00:21:38 I think a lot of men, especially our father's generations
00:21:43 probably, were taught that they need to be closed down,
00:21:46 closed off.
00:21:48 I'm only going to--
00:21:48 I'm controlling what I show you.
00:21:51 To have that-- yeah, to have that full transparency,
00:21:54 I think that is what is a man.
00:21:57 So I'll give you a hack, right?
00:21:58 Real quick hack.
00:21:59 What I do, I don't go through his phone.
00:22:01 It's not like I will pick up his phone.
00:22:03 Since he's small, funnily enough,
00:22:04 I give him that respect and that privacy.
00:22:06 I'll knock his door, he'll knock my door to come in.
00:22:08 So what we do, we have the same ID.
00:22:12 We share the same ID.
00:22:14 So in essence, his pictures, my pictures,
00:22:17 we both get access to it.
00:22:18 And so far, nothing cringy, nothing really shocking.
00:22:22 And then I don't have anything that
00:22:23 all the time on my phone.
00:22:25 So that is a--
00:22:25 You have a burner phone?
00:22:27 Well, I mean, I have two.
00:22:28 You have another phone.
00:22:29 OK, OK.
00:22:29 I understand.
00:22:30 Let's be real.
00:22:31 It's like a real open door kind of policy,
00:22:33 like literally full transparency.
00:22:35 My passcodes from my credit cards, my bank card,
00:22:40 everything.
00:22:41 You know, I think about this all the time with my son,
00:22:43 both my kids, that one of the things I want most
00:22:46 as they get older is that they would feel comfortable coming
00:22:49 to me with anything, to talk about anything,
00:22:51 to be fully open, whether they're scared to tell me,
00:22:54 whether it's something bad, something they regret,
00:22:58 you know, whatever it is.
00:22:59 Like, I feel like that is a huge sign of success as a parent,
00:23:05 as a father.
00:23:06 You know?
00:23:06 And I don't know exactly how to get there,
00:23:09 but I know that that's like one of the things I want the most.
00:23:13 And you know, I saw this study the other day
00:23:16 where it said, in actuality, your parents are not
00:23:21 the main force behind how you end up as a child.
00:23:25 It's your closest community.
00:23:27 The societal influence.
00:23:28 Yeah, so the uncles, the teachers, right?
00:23:31 That first ring around the child.
00:23:35 So you know, it's not all on you.
00:23:38 It's not all on me, which I think
00:23:40 is great to think about, right?
00:23:42 But we can design our community, our village,
00:23:46 so that he's getting input from you.
00:23:49 He's getting input from the kung fu teacher, you know?
00:23:53 And I know for me, personally, I got a lot from my dad.
00:23:57 But I also got a lot from my first boss
00:23:59 when I was doing roofing, you know, at age 16.
00:24:02 Like, this dude was so philosophical.
00:24:04 And I can remember all these one-liners he told me
00:24:07 to this day that I still use as my life tools, you know?
00:24:12 So I think it's important to have--
00:24:14 first of all, take the pressure off of ourselves.
00:24:17 That it's all on us to be the perfect fathers, right?
00:24:20 And then also, though, to allow the uncles,
00:24:23 allow the teachers, allow the sports coaches to be there
00:24:28 in that way, too.
00:24:29 They're not crossing a line by disciplining,
00:24:33 you know, by speaking in a certain way.
00:24:35 You know, they're all guides.
00:24:37 But you know, you guys touched on a couple of things
00:24:39 there that I just want to bring into context.
00:24:42 You know, one of the things would be--
00:24:44 you know, we spoke about tough love initially.
00:24:46 But again, you know, I mentioned it for the third time.
00:24:49 You know, what you focus on is what you see.
00:24:52 And is it that--
00:24:53 I'm terrible at tough love.
00:24:55 I know.
00:24:57 I try, man.
00:24:59 But you know, again--
00:25:00 That's all right.
00:25:01 I'm trying.
00:25:02 I'm conscious about it, Mike.
00:25:03 But like you said, there's no--
00:25:05 we're doing our best.
00:25:07 And in part of doing our best, there's
00:25:09 a couple of things I want to address.
00:25:10 You know, first off, you know, you always
00:25:11 hear this saying, it takes a village to raise a child.
00:25:14 And we can't have an influence--
00:25:16 you know, first off, our decision must be to be present.
00:25:20 That's the one thing.
00:25:21 You might be able to do your best.
00:25:22 You might not have all the answers.
00:25:24 But you can decide to be present.
00:25:26 But if your dad isn't present, one of the things
00:25:29 that we always hear is that a mother can never
00:25:32 replace her father, and a father can never replace a mother.
00:25:36 There's just different aspects of it.
00:25:39 I don't know.
00:25:39 Robert, you're testing my work in Marie-Helene,
00:25:42 because I have a few points--
00:25:43 That's all right.
00:25:44 I want to hit these points here, right?
00:25:47 So the other aspect of that would be,
00:25:51 whether you're present or not, like you said,
00:25:53 you have an influence.
00:25:54 And we speak about--
00:25:55 we speak about in being part of that circle,
00:26:01 and we do the best that we can do.
00:26:03 And we don't know what our parents go through.
00:26:05 When we are now parents ourselves,
00:26:07 we are now dads ourselves.
00:26:08 And we can reflect and say, ah--
00:26:10 like I look back, I say, now I can
00:26:11 see what my mother had to go through.
00:26:13 Or now I can see what my dad may have endured.
00:26:17 Do we now look at maybe some of our children,
00:26:21 our citizens in society who had to grow up without dads,
00:26:26 and who had to join a pack, who had to join a gang?
00:26:29 And I'm not talking about gang just in a violent sense.
00:26:31 I'm talking about their own-- whether it be basketball,
00:26:33 football, or literally a gang without fathers,
00:26:36 that in their cases, now that they look back,
00:26:42 and we judge that particular situation,
00:26:45 that they did the best they could.
00:26:49 So in the sense that that father,
00:26:52 now that they may be fathers themselves,
00:26:53 might look back now, and that same aggression or resentment
00:26:57 that they feel to their dad, they now understand, OK, well,
00:26:59 now I understand why he's not around.
00:27:01 Because I'm doing the best I can,
00:27:03 and that might be being able to take care of children,
00:27:05 because you did the act.
00:27:08 Again, we come back to that whole thing
00:27:10 about the difference between being a father and a dad.
00:27:13 Anybody can father a child.
00:27:14 But I wanted to go on with another point,
00:27:16 but I want to hear yours.
00:27:17 All right, so let me summarize quickly.
00:27:20 What you're saying about your relationship with your son,
00:27:22 you all are like brothers.
00:27:23 And then, Wyatt, what you said about sometimes fathers
00:27:26 take on the role, I would say, let's
00:27:28 call it a little too seriously.
00:27:30 What I realize is when we have certain terms
00:27:33 and we're using father now, we think about it
00:27:36 in a superhuman manner.
00:27:37 So because I have this title, I'm now above human.
00:27:41 So when we look at it, we don't expect human things.
00:27:44 But I'm saying now, let's bring it back to the level.
00:27:47 We are all humans interacting with each other,
00:27:50 humans of different ages.
00:27:52 So if we look at ourselves as human
00:27:54 and we look at our children as human,
00:27:56 then the interaction changes.
00:27:57 Then the point behind the interaction changes.
00:28:00 And because we are human, that means we're not perfect.
00:28:04 And our children would learn--
00:28:06 We're perfect in our imperfection.
00:28:08 Perfect imperfection.
00:28:10 That is exactly.
00:28:11 Going deep.
00:28:12 And understanding that we are able to expose
00:28:16 our flaws to our children.
00:28:18 So you could say, daddy, make a mistake.
00:28:20 Or for them to say, I lose my composure in this moment.
00:28:23 Or, you know what, it's hard for me to do tough love,
00:28:27 but I could do other things.
00:28:29 And then I will add what we were speaking about,
00:28:31 the uncle influences on the other male.
00:28:34 I think, innately-- and this was some research
00:28:36 I was doing recently-- innately, that all of us
00:28:40 strive and crave the tribe.
00:28:43 All of us inside the village.
00:28:45 Whether it's the village of the mixed male and female
00:28:48 or the village of men.
00:28:49 So even now, the research has shown
00:28:52 that the nuclear family is actually unhealthy.
00:28:55 It's an unhealthy combination.
00:28:57 That's mother, father, child.
00:28:58 That's unhealthy because each person needs
00:29:01 that interaction from outside.
00:29:04 So then, now, that's why with our boys, with our sons
00:29:08 especially, being ourselves is important.
00:29:15 I think I covered most of the points
00:29:16 we spoke about, the voice.
00:29:18 Why a male voice is important.
00:29:21 Because I did this research, actually,
00:29:23 in couples' relationships, why sometimes women
00:29:26 are able to manipulate men.
00:29:28 But that's the start of it.
00:29:29 But I'll tell you.
00:29:31 We males, we are programmed to respond different ways
00:29:35 to different tones.
00:29:36 So when we hear somebody in distress--
00:29:38 so let's say a child's voice, because a child's voice
00:29:40 naturally is a higher tone, kind of in distress--
00:29:43 we would react a certain way.
00:29:45 So that's why sometimes when women
00:29:46 wanted to get through something, they'll say, well,
00:29:48 give me this now, and they kind of raise their voice.
00:29:51 But when they hear the deep tone, you react differently.
00:29:54 It reverberates.
00:29:55 It's like the bass in a drum.
00:29:57 The bass in a drum gets you a different kind of reaction.
00:30:00 So when that father says something--
00:30:03 now, even though the father's voice may not be the deepest,
00:30:06 the seriousness of the tone is what
00:30:08 reverberates in that child's mind,
00:30:10 and they react differently to it.
00:30:13 Are you responding to what I was talking about with regards
00:30:15 to the tough love aspect of it, where they say children
00:30:18 sometimes react to their dad out of fear.
00:30:20 And I was rebutting that to say that it's not fear.
00:30:23 It's fear of their bad choice.
00:30:26 So that a son loves--
00:30:29 like, for example, my son.
00:30:30 We get on like a house on fire.
00:30:32 You know, there's a lot of affection there.
00:30:37 The only thing is, when he makes a bad choice,
00:30:39 and his mother tells him to do something,
00:30:41 and I come in and say it, it's not just
00:30:43 because of the baritone.
00:30:44 It's also the fact that he knows he's doing wrong.
00:30:48 He's aware of that.
00:30:49 And the choice, that choice, is what he's in fear of,
00:30:52 not in fear of the person.
00:30:54 And we were discussing that, and you guys had some--
00:30:57 You know, I get to realize, especially with my son,
00:31:01 and I think it's something I learned also through how my mom
00:31:04 would have set a high standard.
00:31:06 As big as I am, big hardback man sitting down here
00:31:08 with all you fellas, I don't want
00:31:10 to bring no kind of embarrassment to my mother.
00:31:12 I don't know mama's boy thing.
00:31:14 It's just a scenario where it would break my heart.
00:31:16 That would probably break--
00:31:17 I can't say probably, but it would break my heart
00:31:19 to see my mother in a courthouse, or having to--
00:31:22 I do some piece of nonsense now.
00:31:23 So I realize my discipline is disappointment.
00:31:27 Anytime-- I don't use the word often,
00:31:29 but if I was to use that word around my son, I'd mash him up.
00:31:32 If I was to say, bro, I disappoint my daddy boy.
00:31:34 Where's that boy?
00:31:35 Full up, more than--
00:31:36 And I never hit him.
00:31:38 I'm not into beating children.
00:31:40 Yeah, agreed.
00:31:40 I'm not into that.
00:31:41 I'm not into boy child, girl child, nobody.
00:31:43 I'm not into burning nobody's skin.
00:31:45 But I think that word used at the right time
00:31:49 if you watch a child and say, listen, wild boy, son--
00:31:53 It's like an arrow to the heart.
00:31:54 --you disappoint nobody.
00:31:55 And you walk off, oh, oh!
00:31:58 A child mash up, because it's like,
00:31:59 how I could disappoint daddy?
00:32:00 And my son, honestly, I realize he's a man
00:32:03 who won't disappoint me at all.
00:32:04 Hence, I watch how he conduct himself,
00:32:07 and he moving around my shot now.
00:32:09 And I hope he just stay like that.
00:32:11 I just pray for that.
00:32:12 To me, my greatest success would be me being a successful--
00:32:15 me bringing up Julian to be functional
00:32:17 and to be an asset to the community.
00:32:19 Your legacy.
00:32:20 To me, that's the greatest success.
00:32:20 Your legacy.
00:32:21 So I think that's a--
00:32:23 I want to hear your point, but we need to take a break.
00:32:26 And when we come back, of course,
00:32:28 we want to really wrap things up and present a real definition.
00:32:34 We start off with one.
00:32:35 We want to really come to what maybe our understanding is
00:32:38 of fatherhood and to go into the other types of fathers
00:32:41 that we see, even the non-biological ones.
00:32:43 So you have child father.
00:32:45 You have sugar daddy.
00:32:47 You have what a baby daddy is.
00:32:48 And all of those have an influence
00:32:50 on the next generation for the negative or the positive.
00:32:54 So where you have your legacy, that's
00:32:58 going to be your greatest achievement
00:33:00 and how your son would react to that.
00:33:02 Others may not react to that because they simply
00:33:04 don't have their father around.
00:33:06 Hence, your child father and all the other terms
00:33:11 that we hear.
00:33:12 So we take a quick break, some quick convo,
00:33:15 and then we'll rejoin.
00:33:16 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:33:19 So again, I think we really have to start
00:33:31 recording some of these behind-the-scenes conversations.
00:33:35 We're going to try and have that--
00:33:36 bring it to the fore now.
00:33:38 We're here talking on manhood about fatherhood,
00:33:41 which is very, very important.
00:33:43 And the fact is that the episode or this particular conversation
00:33:48 today, the timing will run out and it will end.
00:33:51 But the conversation and the realization and the subject
00:33:54 matter never ends.
00:33:56 So we hope to continue having these conversations like this
00:33:59 on manhood.
00:34:00 Before we went to the break, we were speaking about, of course,
00:34:05 fatherhood.
00:34:06 And I said that we were going to come back
00:34:08 about the various types--
00:34:10 child father, baby daddy, sugar daddy.
00:34:14 And I know we had some raised eyebrows as to how sugar daddy
00:34:17 really fits into this.
00:34:18 But it comes down to the absence, the possible absence,
00:34:22 of a father figure in a young girl's life.
00:34:25 We then have her look now to--
00:34:28 we're not talking-- before everybody calm down.
00:34:30 We're not talking about equality and all these other things
00:34:32 again.
00:34:34 We're talking simply about women who
00:34:36 look to be taken care of.
00:34:38 And whether affectionate or negative term
00:34:41 is used over sugar daddy, it still comes under to that term.
00:34:45 There's a reason behind it, which you could go on
00:34:47 with regards to the science.
00:34:48 Child father.
00:34:53 I guess, yeah.
00:34:54 That's me.
00:34:57 Because I'm not married to my son's mom.
00:34:59 But you know what?
00:35:00 We're cool.
00:35:00 We're real good.
00:35:02 Co-parent, cordial relationship.
00:35:05 You know, we would have had little twists and turns
00:35:07 in between.
00:35:08 But she never denied my son.
00:35:09 And I guess officially, I'm here.
00:35:11 I mean, I don't like the word--
00:35:13 So then maybe he's not a child father.
00:35:14 Because a child father has a certain connotation.
00:35:17 Correct.
00:35:17 Because if you're co-parenting, then he's not a child father.
00:35:20 So I'm not a child father then.
00:35:21 So why is that?
00:35:22 Because--
00:35:23 What is science saying?
00:35:24 As a father?
00:35:25 Yeah.
00:35:25 As a father.
00:35:26 I'm a father today?
00:35:27 I'm not a child father, am I?
00:35:29 I thought I'm a child--
00:35:30 That's what a child father thinks.
00:35:33 Because child father is a local slang, or baby daddy.
00:35:37 That's a slang in itself.
00:35:38 And I guess if the person can absentee.
00:35:40 Correct.
00:35:40 Yes.
00:35:41 Yeah.
00:35:41 So then that's kind of a two-way--
00:35:44 the person kind of off to the side.
00:35:45 Oh, no, no, no.
00:35:46 Right?
00:35:46 So it's a child father.
00:35:47 So if both of y'all are healthy parents, co-parenting,
00:35:50 then he's a father.
00:35:52 Yeah, I think co-parenting is a much bigger thing now,
00:35:56 or at least more-- it's more of the norm-- a norm.
00:35:59 Yeah, yeah.
00:36:00 A norm, right?
00:36:02 In the past.
00:36:04 And I think we're in a stage now where
00:36:08 you don't have to just be married
00:36:10 to have a good relationship and to create a good upbringing
00:36:14 for your child.
00:36:14 I think that you can do that in many different ways.
00:36:18 So I think being a father, being present, that doesn't mean
00:36:21 you have to be there every day.
00:36:23 That doesn't mean you're in the same house.
00:36:26 But it does mean that you're consciously
00:36:29 showing up for that child.
00:36:31 You're bringing love.
00:36:32 You're bringing guidance.
00:36:34 You're being a responsible person.
00:36:36 And I also feel that women who deny men access
00:36:38 to their children--
00:36:39 I mean, that's a whole different conversation.
00:36:41 And that's a real unfortunate decision some women make.
00:36:47 And I have to say, that was not my experience.
00:36:50 That was not my reality.
00:36:51 I was at full access.
00:36:53 And it only hurts the child.
00:36:54 Yeah, and especially a boy child, too.
00:36:56 And I think that women need to really recalibrate,
00:36:58 regardless of what your any man went through,
00:37:00 regardless of what is used.
00:37:02 That is something that must be in the realm of history.
00:37:07 Yeah.
00:37:08 Tongue in the back.
00:37:09 I agree with what you're saying.
00:37:10 And--
00:37:10 That can't make no sense.
00:37:11 What you're saying there, Wyatt.
00:37:13 So even if-- the presence is important.
00:37:15 Because even if the child's mother does whatever,
00:37:19 we can't control her behavior.
00:37:21 I don't know if I mentioned it before,
00:37:23 but there's a case when I was working in a separation case.
00:37:26 And the child mother was actually doing that,
00:37:28 keeping the boy away from the father.
00:37:30 The court gave him visitation rights, et cetera.
00:37:32 So it's on paper.
00:37:33 But she was keeping him away.
00:37:34 And he got one day a week, which was a Sunday.
00:37:37 And he would go to where the child lives every Sunday
00:37:42 and just stand by the gate.
00:37:44 And the child would just look out the window.
00:37:46 And he tried to come inside because the paper said that,
00:37:49 but he didn't get to.
00:37:50 But he did that every day, I think it was for five years.
00:37:54 Every week, sorry.
00:37:55 For five years, he just went there.
00:37:57 Now, when I tell him this, sometimes it's
00:37:59 getting emotional.
00:38:00 Because that's a man who, when I say pain,
00:38:03 he said, come on, cry.
00:38:04 Cry, because every time-- it's not
00:38:06 to say you don't want to see something.
00:38:07 You say, come to the gate, see him on Sunday.
00:38:10 And when his son turned 18, what his--
00:38:13 so and he had the opportunity and decision
00:38:15 to go live with his father.
00:38:17 What he said is that, even though I didn't get to physically
00:38:20 talk to him, somewhere in his mind,
00:38:22 he knew his father was there.
00:38:24 Every week, he said, you know what?
00:38:25 Sunday, I will get to see my father.
00:38:28 And so, as you say, in presence, it may not be physically there.
00:38:32 So even employing to fathers, even no matter
00:38:35 however the mother is--
00:38:38 and I'm not saying it's fair either.
00:38:39 It's not fair.
00:38:40 But that consistency, even if it's a message,
00:38:43 that child know Sunday at 7 o'clock,
00:38:46 I'm getting a message from my father.
00:38:48 So that even in--
00:38:48 Find a way.
00:38:49 Psychologically, they know that their father there.
00:38:52 One of the things that, as a dad,
00:38:55 I hear sometimes by friends of mine,
00:38:58 or it's referred to other friends,
00:39:00 and this term babysitting, how it's
00:39:04 deemed when you're there and it's
00:39:08 the wife decides to-- wife, girlfriend, or co-parenting
00:39:12 decides to go out and do something.
00:39:14 Oh, you're babysitting, boy?
00:39:16 And I always take a back bite at them, like, babysitting?
00:39:20 Can't babysit you, aren't you?
00:39:21 It's my son.
00:39:22 I'm not babysitting.
00:39:23 And it's that--
00:39:25 That's crazy.
00:39:26 But in doing that, when I have those moments where
00:39:31 the whole day, or maybe a week, or if she's traveling,
00:39:34 or whatever the case may be, I have to do everything.
00:39:37 I have such an appreciation, not just for her,
00:39:39 but for my own mother to say, wow, you
00:39:41 raise four children, what it takes to be that mother,
00:39:46 but also what it takes to be a dad.
00:39:48 Because, I mean, dads, like you are,
00:39:50 how a lot of times I see you taking--
00:39:53 you take-- you are very present for your kids.
00:39:56 Over the pandemic, I had to step in and become more
00:39:59 full-time dad, which was not my plan.
00:40:02 And I never, ever had any understanding
00:40:06 how hard it is to be a parent, to be the main kind of caregiver
00:40:11 for your children.
00:40:12 And it made me, like you said, have so much more respect
00:40:17 for moms, who are usually the ones that
00:40:20 have to put their career on hold and be home with the child more.
00:40:25 And it's tough, man.
00:40:27 It is.
00:40:28 Because you start questioning, who am I?
00:40:30 And it's exhausting, not just physically, but emotionally,
00:40:34 mentally.
00:40:35 It is really challenging.
00:40:37 And this is the hardest thing I've ever
00:40:39 had to do in my life, actually.
00:40:40 And one of the other realizations in that
00:40:43 is, in my moments of doing that, or in my moments
00:40:47 of having to--
00:40:48 because you're there, and you feel this pressure
00:40:51 to shape this human being or human beings.
00:40:54 And there are many times I'm like,
00:40:56 I haven't even figured it out myself.
00:40:59 How am I shaping you?
00:41:01 And I want to do the best job, because I don't want--
00:41:04 as you had mentioned about the uncles and that other ring
00:41:08 ultimately will shape that societal influence.
00:41:11 There's still that pressure that the information I'm giving you,
00:41:15 the advice I'm giving you, what you're looking at--
00:41:17 because it's not just what I'm saying,
00:41:19 it's what you're looking at in my own actions.
00:41:21 I feel like I'm always really conscious of that anxiety
00:41:25 to ensure that I'm doing well.
00:41:27 Remember, you're human.
00:41:29 So now that we understand that you're human.
00:41:32 And even in that quest to find the right thing,
00:41:35 being honest, because let your son or your daughter
00:41:38 see that daddy don't know everything,
00:41:40 but daddy doing, daddy making the effort.
00:41:43 So even if we spoke about a few times--
00:41:46 But do you recognize that though?
00:41:48 Again, only when you are a certain age
00:41:50 can you look back and recognize what they were trying to do.
00:41:54 But at that point, my son is six, for example, now.
00:41:58 And I say that to him, I said, I'm doing my best.
00:42:00 He's not cognizant of that.
00:42:01 To him, it's like, you can't buy me that motorbike,
00:42:04 or you can't take me to that pool.
00:42:05 That's fine.
00:42:06 You may not even have to say--
00:42:07 Motorbike.
00:42:08 You may not even have to tell them.
00:42:11 You may not have to actually tell them
00:42:12 you're doing your best.
00:42:13 Just do your best.
00:42:15 And they would realize that, just like how I realized it
00:42:18 later on, most of what we said we realized it later on.
00:42:21 You just do.
00:42:22 You don't even have to try to convince your children of it.
00:42:25 You just do as much as you could do,
00:42:27 because effort, a child will always feel the effort.
00:42:31 You could be on the next side of the world.
00:42:32 If you want your child to know something in that moment,
00:42:35 you would do everything.
00:42:36 You could send a telegram, whatever,
00:42:39 something would reach that child for that child to know,
00:42:42 a daddy there with me.
00:42:43 And also, they're watching everything we do.
00:42:47 They absorb everything.
00:42:48 So I think they're learning from watching.
00:42:52 We are teaching by how we show up and how our actions,
00:42:55 not just by what we say to do.
00:42:58 So that's so important, because the reason I kind of went
00:43:02 down that authentic and transparent road,
00:43:04 I remember talking to great uncles.
00:43:06 So that was my grandfather's brother,
00:43:08 passed away now, Uncle Freddy.
00:43:10 And Uncle Freddy said the reason he doesn't drink
00:43:12 is because his father, when he was small,
00:43:14 used to come home drunk every night.
00:43:15 And he said he made up his mind very early
00:43:18 that that wasn't his particular position in life.
00:43:21 So I realized children have a way where they will watch us.
00:43:24 And you might have a particular kink in the armor
00:43:27 where they will either one, take a kink and run with it
00:43:30 and probably go down that same road, or in most cases,
00:43:34 make a decision and filter it out and say,
00:43:36 you know what, I won't really be like that with daddy.
00:43:38 So I think the authenticity via our actions,
00:43:42 or even if you talk certain things with your children
00:43:45 and tell them straight up, listen,
00:43:47 I know us, 'cause I guess daddy's supposed
00:43:49 to be the superhero.
00:43:50 We're not supposed to have a kink in the armor.
00:43:52 You're not supposed to see a father crying.
00:43:53 - And that's what I'm saying, Jay.
00:43:54 Do I want for my child to look and say,
00:43:57 hey, am I raising a good child based on the fact
00:44:00 that he's looking at me and saying,
00:44:01 I don't want to be like that?
00:44:03 - That's fine too.
00:44:04 - No, that's not fine.
00:44:05 - I don't want that.
00:44:05 - No, that's good.
00:44:06 - I do like that.
00:44:07 - But we now say we're not perfect.
00:44:10 So at the end of the day, I think the authenticity,
00:44:13 the child, you could be best daddy, Robbie, Robert,
00:44:17 you know, Wyatt, we could be the best dads.
00:44:19 It would still have something with the child.
00:44:20 - Yeah, you have a--
00:44:22 - I agree with you.
00:44:22 - We're in a different direction.
00:44:23 - No, I completely agree with you.
00:44:24 I think we can never be the best dads.
00:44:26 - Yeah.
00:44:27 - You know?
00:44:27 There's always gonna be something.
00:44:28 - Like, you could be the best dad, but not the perfect dad.
00:44:30 - Who do you know in your life
00:44:32 that doesn't have any trauma from growing up?
00:44:35 You know what I mean?
00:44:36 Like, everyone has their trauma.
00:44:37 It's from your dad wasn't there.
00:44:38 It's from my dad was there.
00:44:39 You know what I mean?
00:44:40 So I think every kid is gonna have some stuff,
00:44:43 different degrees, obviously.
00:44:45 And yes, we just have to keep doing our best
00:44:47 and understand we are human.
00:44:49 But I also love the idea of treating our children as humans.
00:44:52 We're human to human.
00:44:54 You know what I mean?
00:44:55 It's not always we're above and they're below
00:44:58 and they're learning from us.
00:44:59 You know what I mean?
00:45:00 So I think this human to human type of exchange
00:45:04 is great guidance.
00:45:06 - So you mentioned something that,
00:45:09 the relationship you now have with your son.
00:45:12 Are we now saying, 'cause I want, before we close,
00:45:14 I want to address the sugar daddy.
00:45:16 And I want to address--
00:45:16 - Yeah, really, shakes on the sugar daddy.
00:45:19 - 'Cause it's non-biological,
00:45:20 but it's still an element of the psychological nature
00:45:23 of how we impact.
00:45:25 And what I also want to ask us friends here,
00:45:30 are we saying that we agree that we should be a friend
00:45:35 to our child?
00:45:36 Because there's always that argument
00:45:37 that I'm not here to be a friend.
00:45:40 You know, I'm here to be a parent.
00:45:42 And the two shouldn't mix.
00:45:43 What are we saying?
00:45:44 I want to bring it into--
00:45:45 - That's a good question.
00:45:47 - I go back to just being a brother,
00:45:48 as opposed to a friend.
00:45:49 Like I literally, 'cause I never had a brother.
00:45:51 So it was a kind of two-fold scenario
00:45:53 where not having a template,
00:45:55 approaching this, how do I approach
00:45:57 being a father to my son?
00:45:58 You know what?
00:45:59 - How old were you when he was born?
00:46:00 - I was 27.
00:46:02 - So you're still relatively young.
00:46:03 - Yeah, yeah.
00:46:04 So you know, he's gonna be 17 just now,
00:46:06 and it's like we would,
00:46:08 normal thing like what brothers would do, pillow fight,
00:46:10 build Lego, play hide and seek,
00:46:13 then eventually start to come into his own SCA,
00:46:16 have different conversations.
00:46:17 And I was always straight up and transparent with him.
00:46:20 And I realized now we'd come to a place
00:46:22 where we literally would be driving
00:46:23 and just having a conversation like two brethren.
00:46:26 I was like that.
00:46:27 I could see us aligning.
00:46:28 I could see him.
00:46:29 - Right.
00:46:30 - Wouldn't be ashamed or be a,
00:46:32 feel how to take a line with daddy
00:46:33 when he get older, he's in a big man.
00:46:34 - He could be himself.
00:46:36 - Yeah, he could, and I want him to be himself.
00:46:38 If he wanna sit down and,
00:46:39 now it happened yet, as I said,
00:46:40 no profanities in the conversation yet.
00:46:42 And I think there's still a level of respect.
00:46:47 And I'm glad that there's still,
00:46:48 because there's that line that you know,
00:46:49 you hear what going on.
00:46:50 I could turn into that daddy mode immediately.
00:46:53 - Yeah.
00:46:54 - When I raise my voice, if I say,
00:46:55 but I think that--
00:46:56 - I think that's important though.
00:46:57 - I think it's more like a brother.
00:46:58 You gotta kind of approach it from that kind of angle
00:47:00 because now is the time information rubs
00:47:03 and them kids, best to come to you to get the real deal
00:47:06 as opposed to getting it from somebody else.
00:47:07 - Yeah, that's true.
00:47:08 - Can't nobody go filter it for them.
00:47:09 - Has he ever questioned you about your choices
00:47:12 with regards to not being, you know,
00:47:14 if he looks at other households with, you know,
00:47:16 married, a married couple, you know,
00:47:18 growing up like that, has he ever,
00:47:20 I mean, you're still there, which is important,
00:47:21 which is a big thing, but has he had that convo?
00:47:24 - Funny enough, he didn't even,
00:47:26 he did not even have to question it.
00:47:27 I explained to him from the time, you know,
00:47:29 everything kind of, things kind of fall,
00:47:32 I can't explain to him very young what the scenario was.
00:47:35 And what I did, I remember my exact words.
00:47:37 I said, son, you'd rather mommy and daddy
00:47:40 to be separate and happy,
00:47:42 or to be together and unhappy?
00:47:44 He say, I like the first option, separate and happy.
00:47:47 - And G, what he's saying there,
00:47:48 even Robert, what he asking, right?
00:47:51 I would say no to being friends
00:47:53 because the definition of a friend
00:47:55 is very different to each person, right?
00:47:56 But we're going back to human to human
00:47:58 because I don't have to be somebody's friend
00:48:00 to treat them like human, right?
00:48:02 So you don't have to be a son's or a child's friend
00:48:05 to treat them like a human.
00:48:07 - So closing, closing, G, I'd like you to start,
00:48:10 just to touch on a bit of what you said.
00:48:12 If you can give any kind of guidance to mothers,
00:48:17 to aunts, to anyone who's out there listening,
00:48:21 who may have grown up without a father,
00:48:23 who doesn't know who their father is,
00:48:25 or who knows who their father is,
00:48:26 but it's not present in their life,
00:48:28 to touch on a conversation you may have had,
00:48:30 likewise, with your son, some nuggets to them.
00:48:34 - I think it's about understanding your history.
00:48:39 I think that's important,
00:48:42 going back, asking the hard questions,
00:48:43 trying to do your research, your personal family research,
00:48:47 understanding where you came from,
00:48:48 the family dynamic, and making a conscious decision
00:48:52 when you now create your own family
00:48:54 to go a different path.
00:48:56 And if for any unfortunate reason things don't work out,
00:48:59 still keep a level of humanity, man,
00:49:02 and keep some semblance of decency
00:49:06 and love in the conversation,
00:49:07 because it's not about you anymore,
00:49:09 especially when a child involved.
00:49:11 You have to consider the child,
00:49:12 because when you wage that war,
00:49:13 the collateral damage will always be the child.
00:49:16 Always be the child.
00:49:16 So to the women out there, do deny the father's access.
00:49:21 And I think a lot of women too, sometimes unfortunately,
00:49:23 because they know a dad really want to be,
00:49:26 like they will stick it to him now,
00:49:28 'cause they know that this man really want to be involved.
00:49:31 And what about the men who do want no involvement?
00:49:33 They don't even give that man sometimes
00:49:34 that kind of pressure, 'cause he just do even business.
00:49:37 So that's a whole different conversation
00:49:40 for a different day,
00:49:41 and I don't want people to get upset,
00:49:42 but the reality is that I have a lot of men out here hurting
00:49:44 and they really want to be part of the child's life.
00:49:47 And I think they should be given that option
00:49:49 to come in and just let the child see for themselves
00:49:53 where they come from
00:49:54 and the person who played a part with them being here.
00:49:57 So the child now can make a decision when they get older
00:50:00 as to do I want to emulate
00:50:02 or pull some of these things from daddy,
00:50:04 or I want to eradicate these behaviors.
00:50:08 'Cause the child will ultimately do that.
00:50:09 The child will filter and do their own edit.
00:50:12 And you know them kids are all doing that.
00:50:13 - Correct.
00:50:15 - I would just add to that though,
00:50:16 because I grew up in a divorce family,
00:50:19 and it really hurts the child
00:50:22 when the parents are saying negative things
00:50:24 about the other, you know what I'm saying?
00:50:27 And sometimes, like my mom was more talkative, right?
00:50:29 So she would say more kind of like
00:50:31 little negative things here and there.
00:50:33 So it wasn't that she was like not letting me see my dad.
00:50:36 I saw them a week and then a week, a week.
00:50:38 But like she would throw those little negative things
00:50:41 out there more than he would.
00:50:42 And that always left me just confused.
00:50:45 And it didn't make me closer to her.
00:50:47 It made me more distant from both of them
00:50:50 'cause I was confused.
00:50:51 So I think even, you know--
00:50:53 - Especially if you love your dad.
00:50:54 Especially if you're having a good time with him.
00:50:56 It's like, why are you saying these things?
00:50:57 - Exactly, yeah.
00:50:58 So I think we gotta like kinda keep,
00:51:00 whether you're married or you're not or whatever,
00:51:02 like you gotta keep your opinions to yourself
00:51:04 when it comes to the child.
00:51:07 - I just wanted to find out in your closing thoughts,
00:51:09 what like out of the discussion today,
00:51:11 you were asking for some of the revelations
00:51:13 that we may have had in our dad's passing.
00:51:16 You know, what may you be taking away from this
00:51:20 to tell your dad or to let other people know,
00:51:23 I mean, hearing some of our--
00:51:25 - I've been thinking about that actually recently.
00:51:27 I talked to my dad the other day
00:51:28 and I wanted to like set up a weekly interview with him
00:51:31 to get his stories, to get his experiences.
00:51:34 And I don't know if you ever read or listened to the book,
00:51:37 "The Last Lecture."
00:51:38 It's an amazing book.
00:51:39 Might be a great time for you to listen to it.
00:51:41 This is a professor who knew he was dying of terminal cancer.
00:51:45 So he set up these recordings for his young child
00:51:49 so the child would know him.
00:51:51 And it was all of his lessons on ways of being as a human.
00:51:56 And so, I mean, I wanna get that from my dad,
00:52:00 you know, in a more like deliberate way.
00:52:03 And I try to drop those kind of one-liners on my son
00:52:07 here and there, you know?
00:52:09 Like today, we're going to school
00:52:11 and I try to compare the show he's watching to
00:52:14 how to be your best self.
00:52:18 And that being your spirit animal, whatever show it is,
00:52:22 is really about being your best self, you know?
00:52:26 And so I think those little like little one-liners
00:52:29 where you're not sitting down to be like,
00:52:30 let me teach you something.
00:52:32 But it's just an everyday and passing type of thing.
00:52:34 I think those really mold someone and stick with them
00:52:38 in a way that's like, you know,
00:52:41 it's like being Yoda or something, you know?
00:52:44 - Yeah.
00:52:46 So Johanse, I want one specific for you,
00:52:48 apart from your little nuggets
00:52:49 that you always leave us with, to really,
00:52:52 yes, I want the science behind the sugar daddy.
00:52:54 So to have that understanding, because--
00:52:57 - You want that, okay, all right.
00:52:58 - There is a negative impact and the reason why.
00:53:00 We laugh about it, but there's still a negative.
00:53:03 So if you give me that as your closing thoughts.
00:53:04 - All right, so I'll give you,
00:53:05 is a digression into that quick, right?
00:53:08 I did some research on why women, right?
00:53:13 It started first in pornography would say daddy, right?
00:53:17 During the act.
00:53:18 And then to see if women in real were doing the same thing.
00:53:22 And in the research, I even spoke to some women.
00:53:26 What they said is, one, when they were missing a father,
00:53:30 so it's women with daddy issues mostly, right?
00:53:33 With daddy issues.
00:53:35 So they'd always look for a father outside of themselves.
00:53:39 So even a sugar daddy as a stranger,
00:53:41 and they may be even sexual favors in the mix.
00:53:45 They got some of the things that they were missing
00:53:48 as a father, where it is providing and protecting.
00:53:51 Sometimes even knowing that it have a guy there
00:53:53 who want them, who want to be with them,
00:53:56 who want to spend time with an older gentleman.
00:53:59 And in their minds, even though it may have been warped,
00:54:03 right, it created that sense of having a father
00:54:06 that they didn't have.
00:54:08 So that's some of the science behind.
00:54:10 I mean, it doesn't apply to everyone.
00:54:12 But, and I said, I actually spoke to some women
00:54:15 and they were open and honest.
00:54:16 And they said sometimes even after the transactions,
00:54:19 they would feel a little empty
00:54:20 because it's not really their father.
00:54:22 But in the moment, they had the fantasy of it.
00:54:24 Or when they get a deposit in their account,
00:54:28 they say, "My daddy, my daddy did this."
00:54:31 - You're talking about a literal deposit in an account,
00:54:33 right? - Yes.
00:54:34 - Not deposit as in-- - Yes, a literal deposit
00:54:36 in an account. - We started off talking
00:54:37 about porn, so I'm just trying to--
00:54:39 - Right, right. - Bring it into--
00:54:40 - So, and I use that because even with the porn aspect,
00:54:44 if you're missing something,
00:54:46 our expression of human behavior
00:54:48 is always based on what's going on here, right?
00:54:50 Human, if you're taught, feel an action.
00:54:51 So if you're missing something, if you want something,
00:54:54 it expresses itself somewhere else.
00:54:56 So even understanding that can help us understand
00:54:59 the importance of our father.
00:55:01 The importance, for men, the importance of one,
00:55:04 you doing better in yourself as a man,
00:55:07 whether a father or not.
00:55:08 And of course, it translates into being a father,
00:55:10 remembering that we're human, but we're not perfect,
00:55:13 and doing as much as we can.
00:55:15 And Robert, as you said, and this is one thing I take in,
00:55:17 especially from my father,
00:55:18 to spend as much time with him as possible,
00:55:21 because he literally,
00:55:22 I don't know what going on happen tomorrow, right?
00:55:25 Up to yesterday, Saturday, I was spending some time with him
00:55:28 and it was a father-son meetup in Borneo Community Center.
00:55:32 We did that and it was powerful.
00:55:35 So I'm going to spend as much time with my father
00:55:37 as possible. - That's important.
00:55:38 - That's important.
00:55:40 And you know--
00:55:41 - I just wanted to add one thing, Rob.
00:55:43 I've been meaning to say that the tough love thing,
00:55:46 I think it's really important for fathers
00:55:49 to show up with compassion too.
00:55:51 And the simple act of giving our child a hug
00:55:58 and saying it's okay,
00:56:01 I think sometimes we might think we have to be
00:56:07 the tough love, like dads get home and you're like,
00:56:09 "Come on, stop this," right?
00:56:12 But I think sometimes it's really like,
00:56:14 honestly, I feel like the most powerful thing
00:56:16 I do with my son, he's almost five,
00:56:19 just kneel down and hug him and it resets him.
00:56:22 And so I just want to think more about,
00:56:27 in terms of manhood,
00:56:28 I don't think it's all about being how tough you could be,
00:56:33 how strong you could be,
00:56:34 but the vulnerability, compassion, human to human,
00:56:39 I think that that's where the power lies right now.
00:56:43 - Yeah. - Well said.
00:56:44 - So absolutely, gentlemen,
00:56:47 this was a powerful conversation.
00:56:49 - Yep.
00:56:50 - It was very cathartic as well, for me in many ways.
00:56:54 I don't have a lot really to add to that
00:56:56 and that in itself is powerful.
00:56:58 (all laughing)
00:57:01 But to say that, you know, it's okay to cry.
00:57:05 It's okay to cry.
00:57:08 We have these false perceptions of what it takes
00:57:10 to be a man, what it takes to be a father,
00:57:12 what it takes to show our children or society
00:57:15 that you mentioned, things like tough love,
00:57:19 the importance of kneeling down, meeting them eye to eye,
00:57:23 so that they, you know, 'cause what they see is a giant
00:57:26 as opposed to someone that's giving them information,
00:57:30 and that's why it's important to show them love,
00:57:32 to know that it's okay to receive this information
00:57:35 as a reaction to something that they may have done
00:57:38 or not done, and that's important, to hug, to embrace.
00:57:43 There is, there are, I'm not disputing,
00:57:48 there are areas for tough love,
00:57:50 but there are areas to be really genuinely a father's love.
00:57:54 And one of the things that I took away
00:57:59 and it was highlighted to me from a very good friend of mine
00:58:02 that we don't see at the time is the way I might have gotten
00:58:08 a certain level of knowledge that I would always turn to him
00:58:11 for even if it was a job interview
00:58:13 for any information at all.
00:58:15 So even though I saw, you know, for 10 years he was sick,
00:58:18 I got, you know, some of my sayings,
00:58:20 the way I communicate,
00:58:22 (speaking in foreign language)
00:58:26 you know, cockroach on a right and fall party,
00:58:29 monkey know which street to climb,
00:58:30 things like that that bring a smile to people's face
00:58:33 when they hear it.
00:58:33 And I, you know, didn't realize I was picking these things
00:58:36 up from him all the time.
00:58:38 So I would like to close to say, it's okay to cry,
00:58:43 love your fathers, of course, love your mothers.
00:58:46 If you're without a father for whether he's past,
00:58:49 whether he's not present, your mother's doing the best
00:58:52 that she can in the community around you
00:58:54 are doing the best that they can.
00:58:55 And to be that that you miss
00:58:57 or that you're not even aware of that,
00:59:01 like you said, Jay, you know, the absence of your dad
00:59:04 made you into a better man in certain circumstances.
00:59:08 And apart from your choice of football team, of course.
00:59:11 But, you know, so that being said, we like to close
00:59:14 just to say that remember, you know, live with the living.
00:59:19 You're not assured tomorrow, you know,
00:59:22 you have to live in the present, hence it's called a gift.
00:59:26 And the past is the past.
00:59:28 So do what you need to do, you know, for yourself,
00:59:31 more importantly for yourself, embrace your dad,
00:59:34 have that conversation, you know, that level of peace.
00:59:38 So Yohansi, Wyatt, Jay, always a pleasure.
00:59:41 Really, really good convo today.
00:59:44 Thank you to everyone that's been listening, viewing.
00:59:47 We'd like to thank our sponsors.
00:59:48 I didn't say anything about the sponsors.
00:59:50 We will be sitting on the seats and it's nice set
00:59:52 if it wasn't for racetrack.
00:59:54 Thank you to Jamerson, Jamerson Vitamins
00:59:56 for keeping us healthy, keeping us going.
00:59:59 Keep joining us, keep looking on us.
01:00:02 Like I said, the conversation, this episode has ended,
01:00:05 but the conversation still continues.
01:00:07 You know, we have to talk about baby daddy
01:00:10 and people who want 10, 12 kids.
01:00:13 You know, the reasoning behind some of that,
01:00:15 you know, our friend Nile, you know,
01:00:16 I'm gonna bring him here for sure to have that conversation.
01:00:19 But we spoke about manhood here today, fatherhood, manhood.
01:00:23 Thanks for joining us.
01:00:23 (upbeat music)
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01:00:29 - Manhood brought to you by Jamerson,
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