Greece migrant boat disaster: Hopes of finding survivors fade on final day of search
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00:00 Thanks for more. We're joined here by Sarah Prestiani, Advocacy Director for the Euro
00:05 Med Rights Group. Thank you for being with us here on France 24.
00:09 Thank you. Thank you.
00:10 So two different versions. One, that of survivors who spoke to a representative of the UNHCR
00:18 who claimed that there was a vessel trying to tow the ship that eventually capsized,
00:25 and the Hellenic Coast Guard that says, yes, we threw a rope to try to stabilize the boat,
00:30 but we were not in any way there at the moment when it capsized. What have you learned?
00:36 I think that we are in a moment where we have to collect all the testimony and be able to
00:40 reconstruct what happened at sea. But for me, there are a few points that are quite
00:45 clear now. There is a delayed intervention in any case, because the call for distress
00:53 has been sent by migrants through activists many hours before. And also, we clearly see
01:02 a kind of exactly as happening in Coutro in Italy with shipwrecks, a kind of way to say,
01:10 OK, migrant was not wanting to be helped, would not be search and rescue. I think that
01:16 it's a way also to not bring the main responsibility, to not respect the duty of search and rescue.
01:25 But there is a need to reconstruct everything that happened, and also to point out the juridical
01:30 and political responsibility for this intervention at sea that lead to this incredible and tragic
01:38 number of deaths.
01:39 Where does the judicial and political responsibility lie? Is it with the Greek government? Is it
01:45 with the UN Secretary General, António Guterres, saying this Friday that the responsibility
01:51 is not Greece's, it's Europe's?
01:54 There are so many political responsibilities. The first one is from Haftar's side and the
02:00 European Union and Italy dealing and instrumentalized.
02:03 Haftar, the strongman in that part of Libya that were from where the ships had set sail.
02:08 Yes, at least it's not clear whether it's sailed from there or a big part of migrants
02:14 have been put in the boats in Tobruk. But it's clear that that's related to the East
02:19 Libyan migratory routes.
02:22 We have seen an increase of the barter from Tobruk shore in the last two years of Egyptian
02:29 mailing, but also recently of Syrian refugee, Pakistani and Bangladeshi. And we see a clear
02:36 instrumentalization of the migration file from the two sides.
02:39 The second political responsibility is on the lack of legal patrol. People risk their
02:44 life because they have no way to reach Europe in a legal and safe way. The third responsibility
02:50 is on the fact to not have a real search and rescue operation at UNIBL. We see an increased
02:58 number of deaths and there is a clear need to put in place a search and rescue operation.
03:03 And the fourth responsibility is of member states that they are pushing really the fact
03:10 to not respect the duty of search and rescue. And we have seen clearly also in other states
03:16 in Italy and Greece to not intervene as soon as possible. And yes, that's the consequences
03:23 in terms of shipwrecks.
03:26 Governments not just Italy and Greece say if you do focus the attention of agencies
03:31 like Frontex on search and rescue, that will just create what they call a pull factor and
03:36 encourage more people to come.
03:38 No, the only way to avoid people risk their life is to open legal pathway. I think there
03:45 are also a global responsibility and that's clear with the negotiation, the EU pact on
03:49 migration and asylum to put the focus of the EU policy on the externalization policy. That's
03:56 mean to ask to Tunisian government, to Aftar, to Tripoli, in the past to Turkey, and also
04:02 to Morocco to prevent departure. That's push this southern country to blackmail Europe
04:10 through the file of migration. We have to stop to use migration, to instrumentalize
04:14 migration in all the negotiation with our country. Let's put the focus on the rule of
04:18 law. That's the situation that we have to push in Tunisia or because otherwise the consequences
04:24 is to see open new, new migratory routes and the consequences is the blackmail and the
04:30 consequences are these deaths at sea.
04:32 You mentioned Egypt earlier. We have nine people being questioned by Greek police and
04:39 they're all of Egyptian nationality. What more can we say about the crew of this fishing
04:44 vessel, of what was a fishing vessel?
04:46 Yeah, again, we have to reconstruct what happened at sea through the testimony of victims. We
04:54 have some testimony that also speak that part of the crew escape, went out from the boats
05:01 before their arrival, before the shipwrecks happened. 10 person have been also accused
05:09 to be smuggler based on the testimony. I really think, again, that the only way to avoid smuggling
05:16 and trafficking of migrants is to find a legal way to access. And often who organized this
05:23 trip are based far away from the shipwreck where the shipwreck happened. And often these
05:29 smugglers are strictly in contact with the government who are instrumentalized in the
05:34 migration file.
05:36 So in this particular case, we're getting repeated testimony from loved ones of those
05:41 who are missing that they paid $4,500, $5,000 to get on this ship. Where did that money
05:50 go?
05:52 That money go to big network of traffics. And that's very problematic.
05:58 Are you suggesting some of it is also going to the, in this case, the Egyptian government,
06:04 since these were Egyptians, these crew members that are being questioned?
06:08 We cannot have a clear information on where this money went. I think the justice have
06:14 to do their work. But what we can keep repeating as NGO is the only way to avoid the increase
06:21 of human trafficking and smuggling is to open legal pathway. Anyway, risk their life if
06:26 they have another option to reach Europe. So the only way to do a real anti-smuggling
06:33 policy is to open legal pathway and to avoid that people risk their life.
06:37 All right. I want to thank you so much for being with us in this program. Sarah Prestiani
06:45 for here on France 24.