• l’année dernière
Lisa Joy, co-créatrice de séries comme Westworld et Les mondes de Flynn, présidait le jury de la compétition internationale de Séries Mania 2023.
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00:00 Beta Série La Radio, media partner of the Festival Série Mania.
00:05 In this episode of Originos, we are at the Festival Série Mania 2023,
00:09 so Beta Série, partner,
00:11 and on the microphone with us, Lisa Joy,
00:13 President of the International Competition Jury of this year.
00:16 Hi Lisa.
00:17 Hello.
00:18 So, you're the president this year of the International Competition.
00:22 What has been the most challenging task so far, deciding between the shows?
00:28 The most challenging facet of this, by far,
00:31 is the wealth of choices and options.
00:35 We joked constantly about wanting to sculpt new awards
00:39 so that we can hand out trophies to everyone.
00:42 There were incredible performances across the board,
00:46 scripts that made us cry, made us laugh,
00:50 that stayed with us,
00:52 and series the likes of which we've never seen before.
00:55 There were way too many to choose from.
00:58 Because you're a member of a TV festival,
01:01 who do you trust for the next recommendation?
01:04 Your friends, the critics?
01:06 Oh, for my next recommendation?
01:09 I trust the team behind Série Mania to choose excellent jurors.
01:16 I know personally that so many of the jurors this year
01:21 are from different backgrounds,
01:23 different aspects of the industry,
01:26 actors, directors, showrunners.
01:29 And it led to a pluralistic view
01:35 and a really well-rounded discussion
01:38 from so many vantage points.
01:40 I think the best thing about this jury
01:43 is that I learned from my fellow jury members
01:46 that every one of them had brilliant points to be made
01:49 that widened my understanding of the material.
01:52 Let's focus a bit about your career now.
01:55 So you've graduated from an Ivy League school.
01:59 And at that point, what made you switch to writing for TV?
02:04 Writing was always my dream, ever since I was a young girl.
02:10 I honestly just didn't think it would be possible
02:13 to make a living and do that,
02:15 and I was trying to be responsible.
02:17 But when I was studying for the California Bar
02:21 to be a lawyer, I did this crazy thing
02:24 where I also wrote my first screenplay.
02:28 Well, it wasn't really my first,
02:30 but the first TV spec that I'd ever done.
02:32 I'd written a couple features and never shown anyone.
02:35 And then I wrote a Veronica Mars spec,
02:37 if only because I loved the law,
02:40 and I do continue to love the law,
02:42 but I knew it was going to be my last chance
02:44 to pursue this dream of writing.
02:47 And luckily for me, I was able to launch a career
02:50 off of that script.
02:52 And if I may say, as a producer,
02:54 you still need this legal background.
02:57 Yes.
02:58 May I ask, so you're half Taiwanese,
03:00 so was your mother, you know, tiger mom cliche,
03:03 and she was, "Oh my God, my daughter is pursuing
03:05 "a creative career path"?
03:07 I think when you are from potentially Asian country,
03:16 and especially when you are the child of immigrants
03:19 who have come to a country with nothing
03:22 and struggled to make a living there,
03:25 your parents are worried.
03:26 You know, they worry about your future and stability.
03:29 They want to make sure that you have fewer struggles
03:31 than they did, that you don't have to worry
03:33 about paying the mortgage or getting health insurance.
03:36 And so of course, when you say you want to pursue
03:39 a career in writing or the arts,
03:41 where there's so much uncertainty,
03:43 my parents were incredibly nervous.
03:46 I remember when I first got a job on a staff,
03:49 my mom said, "Well, can you just write during the evening
03:53 "and practice law by day?"
03:55 And I was like, "I don't think that's how it works, Mom."
03:58 And I assured her I was going to be fine
04:00 and that it was going to be stable
04:02 and I'd have a steady income.
04:04 And then two months later was the writer's strike
04:07 and I was unemployed.
04:09 But I made it through, and I'm so happy with that choice,
04:14 with that leap of faith that I took.
04:16 - One of your first job was "Pushing Daisies,"
04:19 sorry, on a handful of episodes.
04:21 So what did you remember?
04:23 I mean, what's the lesson you've learned from that first job?
04:27 - I'm so grateful for that first job.
04:30 Brian Fuller, who's the showrunner on that
04:32 and a good friend of mine, is a just brilliant
04:36 and uncompromising auteur.
04:39 He is very visual in how he writes.
04:42 He imagines an entire world and really dictates that tone,
04:48 the tone that will be adapted in the set design,
04:52 in the direction.
04:54 He really dictates that from the page.
04:56 So it's a little bit different as a showrunner
04:58 than as a scriptwriter in features, right?
05:01 In features, it's really up to the director
05:03 to choose the aesthetic.
05:05 But in television, you have a different director per episode.
05:09 So it's up to the showrunner and the writer on the page
05:12 to start setting an example of what the show will look like
05:16 and what it should feel like,
05:18 so that there's a continuation of that tone
05:20 throughout the series.
05:22 And Brian and working with Brian really taught me
05:26 how to do that, how to create an entire visual world
05:30 in addition to the dialogue and the plot.
05:33 - These past years, we've known you for "Westworld," of course,
05:37 "The Peripheral," "Reminiscence."
05:39 So are you really a sci-fi nerd
05:41 or was it just all a happenstance?
05:44 - I mean, it was a happenstance.
05:46 I think now I'm becoming a sci-fi nerd
05:48 'cause I've done so much of it.
05:50 I love mythology.
05:51 I love big stories that ask big questions.
05:56 And I also really like writing characters that I admire
06:02 and that I feel for, whose struggles I identify with,
06:05 without it being necessarily confessional or autobiographical.
06:10 And in that sense, genre and science fiction
06:13 is a really great fit for those affinities
06:17 that I have artistically.
06:19 That being said, my production company
06:21 is also doing a bunch of things that are not sci-fi,
06:24 and I think it's possible to do that kind of world creation
06:29 and character work in any number of genres.
06:32 So stay tuned. I think we'll be expanding a little
06:35 in that direction.
06:37 - I was wondering, what does it really mean
06:39 to be part of a creative duo
06:40 because you work with your real-life husband?
06:44 - It means a lot of nights spent talking about work
06:48 and saying, "No, no, no, no more work.
06:49 We're not gonna talk about story anymore."
06:51 And then five minutes later,
06:52 you find yourselves talking about story again.
06:56 You know, I love working with Jonah.
06:59 It's wonderful to have somebody who you know
07:03 has your back in this industry.
07:04 There's so much uncertainty.
07:06 There's frankly so much rejection,
07:08 so much disappointment, so much self-doubt.
07:10 So when you're working with people that you love and trust,
07:14 it really helps you soldier on, even when things get tough.
07:19 And it helps even the worst days be survivable,
07:23 and the best days, they're even better
07:25 when you can share them.
07:27 - Do you feel sometimes that maybe you're underestimated
07:30 or overlooked because you're the wife,
07:33 and it's, you know, Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy?
07:38 - Um, that's a very good question.
07:43 I think that...
07:48 I think that people are gonna say what they're gonna say.
07:51 You know, I try not to, and don't, read press
07:55 and don't do any of that stuff.
07:57 I know that my career started independent of Jonah,
08:01 that I was the first one who was doing TV.
08:04 I know that I wrote a film by myself while I was pregnant
08:10 and sold it in a bidding war, and then directed it
08:14 after again going to a festival and selling it.
08:17 I've really relied on the open market to judge my work
08:20 as opposed to anything else.
08:22 So I know in that respect that the path I've chosen
08:26 has been mine alone.
08:28 If people want to lump me in with a man
08:32 that I'm associated with,
08:34 I understand why they would do that.
08:36 It's been--it's predictable in some respects.
08:41 But it doesn't matter to me in the end.
08:45 All that matters to me is that I'm doing things
08:48 that I love with people that I love, you know?
08:51 And as long as that's true, that's all I need.
08:55 - Oh, you've mentioned your directorial debut,
08:57 so in Reminiscence.
08:59 How was that experience?
09:01 - Directing Reminiscence was the privilege
09:04 and delight of a lifetime.
09:07 I wrote the script, like I was saying,
09:11 right after a very hard time that I was having on a staff
09:14 as the only girl on staff for many years.
09:18 And I really wanted to write something
09:24 about the male gaze, about what it's like to be a woman
09:27 and looked at in these polarizing lights
09:31 how people can miss the essence of a woman in totality
09:37 because of all these tropes that we have in real life.
09:41 And that was kind of my examination
09:43 of that subject matter through genre once again.
09:46 I wanted to choose something that had the bones
09:49 of a traditionally male-dominated genre
09:53 and make it a little more lyrical
09:55 and make the mystery less about solving a case
10:00 so much as it is about seeing and understanding
10:04 a woman in totality.
10:06 So pursuing those themes and having sold it
10:10 as an indie and a small movie in a time
10:13 when those things don't happen
10:15 and doing it as the writer, director, and producer,
10:18 I don't know that many female auteurs
10:21 who get that chance in film.
10:23 And I would not have been able to do it at all
10:26 without the backing of Hugh and Rebecca and Tandaway
10:30 and my husband, who was my producer, Mike DeLuca.
10:35 I got this incredible group of people
10:38 who were willing to take pay cuts and work longer hours
10:43 because they believed in something together
10:45 and because they supported me.
10:47 And for an example, Hugh Jackman's a great big star.
10:51 He's done huge blockbuster movies.
10:54 And here he goes and takes a chance
10:57 on a first-time feature director
10:59 in the kind of size of movie that's really not made anymore.
11:05 And to support me through it every day
11:08 instead of going away from the set
11:12 when we were filming, he would stay between takes
11:15 even if he wasn't being filmed
11:18 because he was there to support me.
11:21 And I can't even express how grateful I am for that
11:27 and for my entire crew who embraced this
11:30 and what a labor of love it was.
11:33 Another story to add to the kindness of Hugh Jackman.
11:36 Yes.
11:37 This past month, there was a huge discussion
11:40 about Warner Bros. and their back catalog, you know,
11:43 particularly Westworld being removed from the HBO Max platform.
11:47 So, whereas for Westworld, you have the physical releases,
11:50 but for some shows, they're only online, you know.
11:53 So, as a creator, what do you think about that?
11:56 Because you're thinking, "Oh, my show is going to live forever."
12:00 And then they're nowhere to be found.
12:04 Well, I certainly hope they're nowhere to be found.
12:07 But, look, I think, again, I approach this as a creative.
12:14 And that's the only way that I know how to navigate
12:18 and move forward in this, you know.
12:20 I really put on blinders to a certain degree.
12:23 I don't really go to Hollywood parties.
12:26 I don't read the press about it, you know.
12:29 For me, this is something I would do
12:32 for just the love of doing it, you know.
12:35 And I did before getting paid to write scripts.
12:38 I was writing and writing for no one but myself.
12:41 The satisfaction I get in this isn't in some kind of immortality
12:46 or distribution or recognition.
12:48 It's simply in the act of creation and collaboration.
12:52 And so, I try not to look too far outside of that
12:56 at things that I can't control and I'm not really involved in
13:00 because I find it's all a distraction from the work itself.
13:04 You're currently developing Fallout,
13:07 so adapted for the video game.
13:09 Have you felt an increase of pressure
13:11 because how well The Last of Us has done
13:14 and because Halo has been renewed?
13:16 So, yes, is there something more pressing?
13:19 You know, again, I don't...
13:23 I hate to say this, I love Craig Mazin
13:27 and I haven't been watching a lot of TV lately
13:30 because I have two young kids, but I can't wait to see.
13:33 The Last of Us.
13:35 And I don't think of this world as zero-sum.
13:41 Whether it's about genre or shows
13:44 or women in positions of power,
13:47 I just can't afford to think that way, you know,
13:50 because it would make me petty and jaundiced
13:55 and I don't think it's necessary
13:57 because I don't think that the world,
13:59 and maybe I'm idealistic,
14:01 but I don't think the world works that way.
14:03 I think that people respond to the material they respond to.
14:06 And even if they don't respond to it,
14:08 who's to say they won't re-find it again years from now
14:12 and respond to it then, you know?
14:14 I can't tell you the number of artists
14:16 who died in poverty without being known
14:20 and then, you know, centuries later,
14:22 they're some of the most celebrated voices in the canon.
14:25 So I try not to think about the competitive elements of it
14:29 because I don't know how to judge performance, you know?
14:36 I don't even know if it can be judged
14:38 in the moment in which something is released
14:40 and I don't know that it would be helpful to do so,
14:43 even if you could.
14:44 And just to wrap this,
14:46 excluding the shows that you've seen this week, of course,
14:49 what is the last show you've really enjoyed?
14:54 This is going to be a little bit unexpected.
14:59 So again, I've been so busy with the kids and with work
15:03 that I haven't been able to--
15:04 I'm scared to get really immersed in a show
15:07 because I will not be able to stop
15:08 and so I'm waiting for a time when I can binge a bunch of things.
15:12 So the only show I've really had exposure to lately
15:15 is the show that my children have been watching,
15:18 which is the Avatar The Last Airbender series.
15:21 Yippee, yippee!
15:22 It is fantastic.
15:23 I love it.
15:24 I love the chorus series.
15:25 I love the storytelling.
15:27 I love the feminism.
15:28 I love the action.
15:30 I love the visuals.
15:32 There's something to love in all sorts of genres
15:35 and all sorts of programs
15:36 and I'm really glad that my kids introduced me to that one.
15:40 They're actually doing a young adult version now.
15:43 I think it's coming out in a few months.
15:44 Ah, there you go.
15:45 Thank you very much.
15:46 Thank you.
15:47 Beta Céré La Radio.
15:49 Media partner of the Céré Mania Festival.
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